samus i am
Member
Maybe you want to do some research about that. MOST male rapes go unreported because of fear and shame.
Edit: From wikipedia
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"My Weekend In Americas So-Called Rape Capital"
- Thread starter Gaborn
- Start date
- Status
Maybe you want to do some research about that. MOST male rapes go unreported because of fear and shame.
Edit: From wikipedia
University of Georgia. Partying going on every night unless it was during midterms or finals, and a SHITLOAD of partying on Thurs/Fri/Sat night.
Lazy Man's Wallpaper
Member
I went to a school that is usually in the top five, if not first, and I agree with him.
Devolution
Member
Excuses.
at one point UM was ranked in the top ten of party schools in the US up there with Texas and whatnot. we were so proud ;_;
The article also points out that a very small percentage of rape accusations are false. That people think false accusations are a problem in Missoula is fucking disgusting.
freenudemacusers
Member
Well I guess he wasn't invited to the insane parties these places have.
Baconsammy
Banned
Except I'm referring to the article in question and you're talking about something completely different. Nice of you to insult me (and other people though). God forbid someone has their own opinion, right?
I have no doubt the false accusations are far outnumbered by the actual ones. The disgusting part of that article is that it appears to be other women that are accusing the victims of making it up.
Baconsammy
Banned
double post, sorry
I'm guessing you don't read much.
Absolutely, which goes back to why slut shaming is still a problem.
you're funny
Those rapists should be in jail. If your a victim, I'm very sorry for you. Bring justice for those crimes and put those people behind bars. Being in fear and shame would suck, but id rather feel that way for the rest of my life then allow a rapist to continue his acts.
Baconsammy
Banned
The whole "slut" accusation thing is terrible. I read another story yesterday about a young girl in high school who killed herself after being called slut repeatedly by other girls. Apparently the victim of the bullying hadn't ever even kissed a boy. Sad how cruel women can be to one another.
I'd hazard a wild guess that you've never been raped?
Devolution
Member
Your opinion is drenched in victim blaming rhetoric. Deal with it.
CrushDance
Banned
How eerie. Something similar happened around here just this past Sunday at a house party.
Girl was flirting with another guy while her boyfriend was in the backyard. Everything's going fine and she suddenly just goes upstairs. The guy follows her up and my sisters friend walks in on them, apologizing profusely as she shuts the door. Now the two were going at it, both completely drunk. So about twenty minutes later the guy comes down, texting on his phone and all happy with the girl again flirting with him. My sister and her friends are talking amongst themselves and tell him to leave. He asks why and they say that the boyfriend was still there(The guy who slept with here didn't know this, or was too drunk to care). He resisted and wanted to stay. The girl goes back upstairs and shuts her door as the guy is being coaxed out. Suddenly the girl comes running down the stairs, goes past everyone and out into the backyard. Bringing her boyfriend back and taking him upstairs. My sister and her friends realize what it probably going on and desperately try to get the other guy out. It takes two other guys to lift/drag him out as he's completely intoxicated. The boyfriend comes storming down and screaming for the drunk guy, saying that his girlfriend was just raped. Some people are shocked and others are just shaking their heads as they'd seen what had transpired. My sisters other female roomate goes upstairs and berates the girl (also a roomate) for having sex with some random guy in the house, especially considering she had a boyfriend and potentially causing chaos. The girl blows her off and her boyfriend is outside yelling, trying to beat up the drunk guy while others are restraining him. Saying he's going to kill the guy. Next thing you know, police are called, the parties disbanded and the drunk guy is arrested and taken in for questioning.
Now. The guy who "raped" her was questioned and let go by the police after they found little evidence to support her story and many, many people at the party outright said that she was lying because of her behaviour prior to and after. She was still adamant about it and eventually admitted to my sister and the other roomate that she felt guilty for cheating on her boyfriend...
Anyway! Long story short. She later apologized and dropped "the case", the guy feels super guilty, my sister now plans to move out ASAP and the girl is back again to her partying.
////
People shouldn't be punished for having sex. And when people have sex, they should know and consent fully. Yet this isn't the first close experience that I've had or been privy too where a guy takes a girl home or at a party and things end up terribly for him the next morning. False accusations of rape are just as worrisome and prevalent. And I believe that it's this type of thing that has horrifically given birth to this "She's lying" and slut-shaming that MANY girls and women label each-other with. And I know all too well how many guys use alcohol too as a tool to "loosen women up". It's the defacto means to getting sex for many of them! So you can see the problem that arises when a man and woman are both getting heavily intoxicated, saying or doing things they don't mean; and resulting in serious consequences when their heads are clear.
This shit is a big problem and I'm not sure what the exact solution is. On one hand I can sympathize with people who are drunk, but on the other I can't accept that you must get someone drunk first before having sex. But if you look around, that's the way it is the world over from the teen years and up. So finding out who's telling the truth is always going to be a problem. And I think that a lot of police just don't care to go through these cases as much as they should, because neither party typically knows what actually happened. And even in the cases where the girl isn't drunk and the guy is, there's always something else thrown in.
So what do women do? Not go to parties? Have an escort? Not drink? And what about men? Should they not drink? Not party? For me, I've always found the "loud" parties incredibly annoying and some unscrupulous characters tend to show up, so I've always avoided them. But when I go out or have nice social functions, I tend to feel much more..."safe"? If that's the correct term. Because nobody there is getting straight up drunk or high usually.
To be blunt. I believe that these type of environments tend to breed predators that look for girls that are out of it. I know for a fact that even some of my "good" friends are always scanning for girls that are stumbling or clearly drunk. This is a result of the culture fostered whereby your worth as a man is equated to whether you have a girlfriend, have had sex, or on what frequency you have sex. I know people like to think that we're all holy and noble and that rape or unwanted sexual advances aren't a problem here. But it is. The purpose of clubs, house parties, frats, are nothing more than hunting grounds so to speak for a lot of guys. It's one part cowardice to approach a cognitively aware woman and one part "You must have sex!". Throw in alcohol and or drugs and it's a terrible potion.
Girl was flirting with another guy while her boyfriend was in the backyard. Everything's going fine and she suddenly just goes upstairs. The guy follows her up and my sisters friend walks in on them, apologizing profusely as she shuts the door. Now the two were going at it, both completely drunk. So about twenty minutes later the guy comes down, texting on his phone and all happy with the girl again flirting with him. My sister and her friends are talking amongst themselves and tell him to leave. He asks why and they say that the boyfriend was still there(The guy who slept with here didn't know this, or was too drunk to care). He resisted and wanted to stay. The girl goes back upstairs and shuts her door as the guy is being coaxed out. Suddenly the girl comes running down the stairs, goes past everyone and out into the backyard. Bringing her boyfriend back and taking him upstairs. My sister and her friends realize what it probably going on and desperately try to get the other guy out. It takes two other guys to lift/drag him out as he's completely intoxicated. The boyfriend comes storming down and screaming for the drunk guy, saying that his girlfriend was just raped. Some people are shocked and others are just shaking their heads as they'd seen what had transpired. My sisters other female roomate goes upstairs and berates the girl (also a roomate) for having sex with some random guy in the house, especially considering she had a boyfriend and potentially causing chaos. The girl blows her off and her boyfriend is outside yelling, trying to beat up the drunk guy while others are restraining him. Saying he's going to kill the guy. Next thing you know, police are called, the parties disbanded and the drunk guy is arrested and taken in for questioning.
Now. The guy who "raped" her was questioned and let go by the police after they found little evidence to support her story and many, many people at the party outright said that she was lying because of her behaviour prior to and after. She was still adamant about it and eventually admitted to my sister and the other roomate that she felt guilty for cheating on her boyfriend...
Anyway! Long story short. She later apologized and dropped "the case", the guy feels super guilty, my sister now plans to move out ASAP and the girl is back again to her partying.
////
People shouldn't be punished for having sex. And when people have sex, they should know and consent fully. Yet this isn't the first close experience that I've had or been privy too where a guy takes a girl home or at a party and things end up terribly for him the next morning. False accusations of rape are just as worrisome and prevalent. And I believe that it's this type of thing that has horrifically given birth to this "She's lying" and slut-shaming that MANY girls and women label each-other with. And I know all too well how many guys use alcohol too as a tool to "loosen women up". It's the defacto means to getting sex for many of them! So you can see the problem that arises when a man and woman are both getting heavily intoxicated, saying or doing things they don't mean; and resulting in serious consequences when their heads are clear.
This shit is a big problem and I'm not sure what the exact solution is. On one hand I can sympathize with people who are drunk, but on the other I can't accept that you must get someone drunk first before having sex. But if you look around, that's the way it is the world over from the teen years and up. So finding out who's telling the truth is always going to be a problem. And I think that a lot of police just don't care to go through these cases as much as they should, because neither party typically knows what actually happened. And even in the cases where the girl isn't drunk and the guy is, there's always something else thrown in.
So what do women do? Not go to parties? Have an escort? Not drink? And what about men? Should they not drink? Not party? For me, I've always found the "loud" parties incredibly annoying and some unscrupulous characters tend to show up, so I've always avoided them. But when I go out or have nice social functions, I tend to feel much more..."safe"? If that's the correct term. Because nobody there is getting straight up drunk or high usually.
To be blunt. I believe that these type of environments tend to breed predators that look for girls that are out of it. I know for a fact that even some of my "good" friends are always scanning for girls that are stumbling or clearly drunk. This is a result of the culture fostered whereby your worth as a man is equated to whether you have a girlfriend, have had sex, or on what frequency you have sex. I know people like to think that we're all holy and noble and that rape or unwanted sexual advances aren't a problem here. But it is. The purpose of clubs, house parties, frats, are nothing more than hunting grounds so to speak for a lot of guys. It's one part cowardice to approach a cognitively aware woman and one part "You must have sex!". Throw in alcohol and or drugs and it's a terrible potion.
Baconsammy
Banned
Actual it isn't. But according to you when schools, police etc advise women to do EXACTLY what I said, they're just blaming the victims. And teaching women/men/children self-defense is also just blaming the victims. Great logic you've got there. Taking precautions is a great thing.
Devolution
Member
Taking precautions is a myth.
Zoramon089
Banned
You can drink without getting too drunk to control yourself. Not blaming the victims but there is a large area between sober and pass out drunk where you can still have fun and think about important decisions (like sleeping with some dude, cheating on your BF, or from the guys perspective sleeping with a piss drunk girl) clearly
Baconsammy
Banned
No they're not, but I see clearly what I'm dealing with here.
Devolution
Member
Are you a woman? Do you have friends that have been raped? Do you know what those "precautions" amount to? Shit. That's what they amount to.
CrushDance
Banned
Yeah...never really understood that fully. You "can" take precautions, such as not going out late at night by yourself for example. No, it is not your job to control other people; but we've got to realize that there ARE bad people out there, not just sexual predators. We take precautions for many other things that we can't control. I think it's just insensitive and wrong to tell a rape victim or a victim of anything really that they should be taking precautions. You can wear a seatbelt but still get into an accident not of your doing. Taking precautions though does raise your chances of avoidance or survivability.
This is pretty much where I stand. I have sisters, I would kill anyone who did something like that to them. But I also tell them straight up to avoid certain areas, types of people and types of gatherings. Because I know there's some monsters out there.
Wrong.
I cleary need to start marketing my three layer clothing method of rape prevention...
But but but an 8% unfounded rate (not false, unfounded) for rape claims means that it is so incredibly high!
samus i am
Member
Taking precautions like not drinking too much and not wearing sexy close? Yes, it is a myth.
Dude speaking as a man who once said the same thing before something like this happened to me, let me say that you have no idea what you're on about. I used to think like you, and then it happened to me. You feel ashamed. You don't think people will believe you, or will be disgusted. You know that it will take a large amount of time, money, and public discussion of uncomfortable, awful memories. You find that shit load of people will flip it around on you even if it doesn't concern them. And sometimes, you just wanna move on with life because you can't keep standing in the past.
You think you'd push for justice? Easier said than done.
The real crux of the issue is this:
Receiving the benefit of the doubt by not being charged with rape and thrown in prison based simply on one party's word is an entirely different thing from having the DA put taxpayer's dollars into prosecuting someone who they probably will not be able to convict because the only witness was admittedly completely hammered and it's completely he-said she-said.
It sucks that the legal system can't adequately protect everyone at all times, but the standard of proof is high for a reason, being wrongly convicted of any crime, especially something as serious as rape is a terrible thing. You could make it so that no one intoxicated could consent, but then basically everything would be rape. If both parties are equally drunk are they both rapists? It's just an area where there is no legal solution, so you just have to use the practical one: Don't go to these kinda of places, Don't drink excessively(this is a good one for everyone), and most of all Don't go into a bedroom with someone you don't know and trust. I'd just say skip the partying completely, as someone who never understood the appeal of college parties. The only people you are going meet are obnoxious drunken douchebags, and what kind of conversation can you really have in a room filled with shouting drunk people and terrible dance music? It's silly all around.
Receiving the benefit of the doubt by not being charged with rape and thrown in prison based simply on one party's word is an entirely different thing from having the DA put taxpayer's dollars into prosecuting someone who they probably will not be able to convict because the only witness was admittedly completely hammered and it's completely he-said she-said.
It sucks that the legal system can't adequately protect everyone at all times, but the standard of proof is high for a reason, being wrongly convicted of any crime, especially something as serious as rape is a terrible thing. You could make it so that no one intoxicated could consent, but then basically everything would be rape. If both parties are equally drunk are they both rapists? It's just an area where there is no legal solution, so you just have to use the practical one: Don't go to these kinda of places, Don't drink excessively(this is a good one for everyone), and most of all Don't go into a bedroom with someone you don't know and trust. I'd just say skip the partying completely, as someone who never understood the appeal of college parties. The only people you are going meet are obnoxious drunken douchebags, and what kind of conversation can you really have in a room filled with shouting drunk people and terrible dance music? It's silly all around.
Baconsammy
Banned
No, taking precautions like going to bars with close friends and not letting your close friends leave with anyone you didn't come with...under any circumstances. Exactly what schools advise women to do. Being safe nor prepared isn't a myth. It's a necessity it seems.
CrushDance
Banned
I mean that when a guy is accused of rape, his life is relatively over. Even if a woman later says it wasn't or it's found to be false, nothing happens to the woman.
Baconsammy
Banned
If there's no victim, then there's no blame. Not a myth.
Actually I believe you can be jailed for that.
samus i am
Member
Well said, sorry to hear that. Hopefully this post reaches others out there.
CrushDance
Banned
You can't control other people. People can't control themselves when they're drunk or high. Let alone when they're sober and still act dangerously.
So what are women supposed to do? Please tell me how we can stop rapes.
Hmm. Didn't know that. It doesn't happen often enough though from what I've seen.
Mr. B Natural
Member
Wrong.
It would be blaming the victim if you said that to a victim. Saying that to someone who is not a victim as a way to keep from becoming one is completely 100% valid.
The law can not protect you in 100% of situations, and you have to protect yourself where you can.
Baconsammy
Banned
Claiming taking precautions is a myth and can't stop rapes is so incredibly dumb. Obviously it can't stop all rapes, but it can stop a lot. Taking precautions is a damn good thing, and as a father of a young daughter I intend to teach.
It is blaming the victim. It places responsibility for what happened on her, not on the rapist. Unless a woman spends her entire life being chaperoned by other women and never ever ever being alone with a man, she is going to be at risk for rape at some point in her life.
If a woman is not raped, it is not because she was better prepared, dressed more conservatively, was more responsible, held her liquor better, chose a safer route, etc. It was being at some point in her life, she was alone and a man made the decision to rape her.
If a woman is not raped, it is not because she was better prepared, dressed more conservatively, was more responsible, held her liquor better, chose a safer route, etc. It was being at some point in her life, she was alone and a man made the decision to rape her.
CrushDance
Banned
That's what I'm saying! I don't know why people keep saying :"Myth! Myth!" No, it's not. There ARE many, many bad people out there. And even people who aren't "bad" will say and do things that they normally wouldn't when drunk or high. Avoiding such people/locations is advisable. That's not blame!
We know that. But you can improve your chances.
Devolution
Member
You guys are asking us to limit our lives based on the idea that we know where rapists reside or what they're up to. The fact that most women are raped by men they know means the opposite. Until rapists wear bells and whistles you're all just insulting victims or would-be victims.
You can't. It's not a crime that people see coming. It's a predatory act by someone intent on harm.
You can't. It's not a crime that people see coming. It's a predatory act by someone intent on harm.
Baconsammy
Banned
No it isn't. Teaching young women to take precautions before anything happens PREVENTS RAPES. It's not a myth, and it's idiotic to insinuate that. It trivializes rape-prevention courses and education, as well as self-defense. And if you take it a step further then you're saying all prevention techniques are a waste of time, which is also utter bullshit.
I believe that education on matters of alcohol, drugs and rape can certainly make a difference, as well as self-defense training. But that's as much about making cultural changes as personal. You can't really see rape coming, but I am too disheartened by the prospect of nothing being able to be done about it from a prevention standpoint.
Where is the hypothetical victim we are talking to? Doesn't there have to be a victim before we can blame them?
There are risk factors obviously, and to deny it just so any potential victim don't feel bad is silly. Obviously victims should also be treated with respect because it wasn't their fault, but people who haven't yet become victims should know what to avoid as well.
Devolution
Member
I'm the hypothetical victim. Right here.
Hang on let me get this straight, are people saying that by promoting methods by which women can limit their exposure to potential rape people are in fact placing the blame on those that do unfortunately get raped?
CrushDance
Banned
Oh come on Devo!
Question: Do certain minority groups, people, avoid certain areas and locations based on true dangerous? I'm not saying women should have to avoid certain places or whatever. But would you not say that a person that is DRUNK, maybe HIGH, probably HORNY, is a dangerous person to be around? Would you hang out with a murderer? A drug dealer?
I don't know man. Look at even GAF, the "lolz virgin!" , "he needs more sex" jokes are unstoppable. Now imagine when someone gets drunk or whatever and their true feelings, the ones we repress to work as a society; are let free. Major cultural problem.
samus i am
Member
You want to stop more rapes? Stop focusing on the victims and lets educate these students:
This attitude is NOT ok. This attitude is why women are getting raped, not how short their skirts are.
- Status