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[D4Danger]

people can be whoever they want but you can't just say you have a black dad and pretend to be black. That isn't trans anything.

 

[block tower]

I'm saying that race is a cultural construct, not something that is supported by science. There are places in the world, like Brazil where race and ethnicity are only valid in so far as how the individual views and represents him or herself.

In other words, it's culturally acceptable to change your "race" or ethnicity based on how you view yourself. And doing so isn't taboo.

isnt that just mostly self hate in latin countries? dont people with african decent claim to be more indigenous or spanish, or something other than african? i always understood it as internalized racism.

 

[Killing_Joke]

It's odd people are skipping nearly every damaging post to defend this.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Another thing that separates the two would be that she wasn't born feeling this way. Transgender people are born with that in mind.

And just 5-10 years ago, the idea of a Transgender person born that way was laughable as well to most. I'm not saying Transracialism is legitimate, but I have yet to see an argument employed against it that wasn't exactly used against the transgendered.

- 'Its a mental illness!'
*cough*

- 'They don't know what its like to feel oppressed!'
*nervously looking around*

- 'They aren't born that way!'
*blinking*

Yeeaaah, that's pretty much word for word the kind of arguments used against gays and transgendered.

 

[methane47]

This is a well thought out post, but let add some rebuttals.

The problem for me is that accepting the concept of "transrace" would basically be an endorsement to the idea of a biological divide that doesn't exist and a cultural divide that shouldn't exist. A black person and a white person is scientifically the same damn thing beyond very minor details. There's just no real self identification to change there.

You can change the color of your skin all you want, and I see no reason to care, but you can't change your race or ethnicity, nor is there any scientific reason for you to want to. The only reason you even have to check a box to verify your ethnicity on anything is because there's a history of people screwing over people of other races in various ways, and we want to try to make sure people aren't doing that anymore.

Some people feel that part of their identity is having millions of piercings and tattoos ,does there need to be a scientific reason why?

Sure, cultures have been formed around this divide, but there's nothing really stopping a white person from participating in these cultures. There's only two things stopping a white person from doing anything regarding participating in black culture.

First is the concept of cultural appropriation, which wouldn't change if you changed your racial identity since that identity would be part of that appropriation. Your background and the privileges you grew up with are still yours no matter what race you choose to identify as. It's really not that restricting as long as you acknowledge the differences in the backgrounds of an average black person and an average white person, and not make everything about yourself.

Its too difficult not to use trans as an example, but you really don't know what was going on in Rachel's head as she was growing up. I've heard numerous stories from trans people about just being confused their whole life, feeling out of place, being on a football team but never feeling truly comfortable. Being raised super tough but plays with barbies..., or being forced to play with barbies but you just want to go outside and rough and tumble with the boys... Who's to say Rachel didn't grow up living a white life but feeling astranged or unconfortable in her skin but not knowing why, feeling strangely drawn to black culture and black people in general. We dont know anything about her chidhood. People here just seem to think, one day she up and said... Hmm you know what i love me some fried chicken, get me some bronzer.

Second would be feeling unaccepted in that culture as a white person, but people too closed minded to accept you as a white person isn't going to accept you as a "transrace" anyway. Maybe you can change the color of your skin and lie about your background to become accepted, but is that really the sort of behavior we should be promoting?
A transgendered person is someone that stops lying about who he or she truly is. A transracial person would by definition almost have to be someone that lies about their past and background, in order to truly join the social construct they're trying to join.

Isn't this what some trans-gendered people do though? They lie about their past and background to make their acceptance smoother.

Otherwise It'd be a concept that is either pointless or racist, given that you almost have to think there's something special about being a certain race beyond the cultural background in order to believe that you can successfully change your own race like that.

Maybe people can choose to do whatever they want with themselves, but I think we can say this is a bad choice for a number of reasons.

I agree its pointless, but does there need to be a point for a person to want to do it?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Forget science then.

What is transracial identity?

How you feel doesn't gives us anything to legitamize this condition, I could feel a ton of things but why or how does that legitamize it or make it relevant? You just saying how someone feels about this is the only relevant topic doesn't tell me anything either. Why should anyone give it any equal importance to any variety of issues?

I really want to know as I'm all sorts of confused now.

Science is information, at the end of the day science doesn't determine what individuals should believe nor what society should decide. Science tells us everyone and even humanity itself will end one day. Doesn't mean we should just give everything up.

Here people are trying to use science to establish basis for whether they accept a principle or not, but science doesn't have any privileged authority over how people feel, it's just information useful to put things in perspective.

Look at how quickly people here are jumping on brain scans and DNA and blood tests to try and form their opinions. It's silly, because we can immediately imagine the same situation with someone who has a tiny little bit of African ancestry, and logically their parents had a little more, and their grand parents a little more, and so on, so it would imply that we would have to determine a threshold at which point someone was no longer black.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Another thing that separates the two would be that she wasn't born feeling this way. Transgender people are born with that in mind.


It's not a necessary part of it, in fact, life would be better without it, but I'd certainly be offended is someone was lying about her life experience so that she would have the right to talk about the issues that my race experiences on a daily basis.

So how would you feel about a person who would make the exact same claims as someone who was born that way, except for the "always" part? What if they said "well I didn't always feel this way, I only did starting in my late teens". Does that invalidate their claims? What if they said "I didn't always feel this way, it started at 12."? Is there a threshold at which point we say "ha yes you had those feelings for long enough, you get a green light."?

 

[davepoobond]

I'm saying that race is a cultural construct, not something that is supported by science. There are places in the world, like Brazil where race and ethnicity are only valid in so far as how the individual views and represents him or herself.

In other words, it's culturally acceptable to change your "race" or ethnicity based on how you view yourself. And doing so isn't taboo.

that's not what she is doing though.

she is saying she has a black father, she isn't saying she "was white" and is "now black"

if being transracial/transethnic is a thing to be had, this situation would not qualify.

 

[Madness]

I'm saying that race is a cultural construct, not something that is supported by science. There are places in the world, like Brazil where race and ethnicity are only valid in so far as how the individual views and represents him or herself.

In other words, it's culturally acceptable to change your "race" or ethnicity based on how you view yourself. And doing so isn't taboo.

This isn't Brazil though. This has nothing to do with Brazil. Why even bring up Brazil? Is there literally no excuse that won't go unused in this thread?

Brazil has interesting race relations because they had an official breed the black out policy. At the turn of the 19th century, the Brazilian government actually encouraged miscenegation so that the darkest black Brazilians would be bred out of existence and lighter and more white Brazilians would take a foothold. And it worked, you now have a very mixed society, whereby people choose to identify as white or black because very, very many of them have black ancestors, white ancestors less than 1 or 2 generations back.

However, Rachel here has two lily white parents. No African ancestors as far as her parents know, and she is ethnically Czech/Swedish/German. She doesn't get to be a black American woman, she doesn't get to choose to be a black American woman.

 

[Guileless]

How do I behave black?

Become an NAACP field director?

 

[Ether_Snake]

that's not what she is doing though.

she is saying she has a black father, she isn't saying she "was white" and is "now black"

if being transracial/transethnic is a thing to be had, this situation would not qualify.

Why? Just because she lied? What if she says "Ok I lied I admit it, but I still feel the same.", is she cleared now? Or did her past lies invalidate her forever, unlike someone who would not have lied? Can she get her transracial points back if she waits long enough?

 

[cutmeamango]

isnt that just mostly self hate in latin countries? dont people with african decent claim to be more indigenous or spanish, or something other than african? i always understood it as internalized racism.

No, people identify themselves by physiognomical featuresm skin color included.
So those mixed without clear phenotypical traits of "well defined groups", call themselves mixed whatever, be it "moreno", "pardo", and other names.

Darker (or tan, color-wise) skin tone with curly hair is not enough to call someone black (negro) here. But if the person has black parents or grandparents, and says she's black, not many will care unless it is for quotas.

Brazil has interesting race relations because they had an official breed the black out policy.

That's what you learn at your school?

 

[collige]

This isn't Brazil though. This has nothing to do with Brazil. Why even bring up Brazil? Is there literally no excuse that won't go unused in this thread?

Brazil has interesting race relations because they had an official breed the black out policy. At the turn of the 19th century, the Brazilian government actually encouraged miscenegation so that the darkest black Brazilians would be bred out of existence and lighter and more white Brazilians would take a foothold. And it worked, you now have a very mixed society, whereby people choose to identify as white or black because very, very many of them have black ancestors, white ancestors less than 1 or 2 generations back.

However, Rachel here has two lily white parents. No African ancestors as far as her parents know, and she is ethnically Czech/Swedish/German. She doesn't get to be a black American woman, she doesn't get to choose to be a black American woman.

How black do your ancestors have to be for you to be able to call yourself black?

 

[SmokyDave]

You mean to tell me there is a genuine condition where people look at themselves and yet feel they are another race/ethnicity? That it's something we should accept and champion? 'I think I'm black therefore I am'? Seems like you just want to conflate it with people who are transgendered/gender dysphoria.

Either way, for me the thread has run its course. You win. She should do what she wants. If she wants to pretend to be black, we should all celebrate her courage. It's extremely difficult in this age to use some bronzer, style your hair like that.

Thank you for that perfect response.

What I said: "The term hasn't literally been made up in the last day.

Feel free to say it's bullshit, but it's not a concept that just popped out of thin air yesterday. That's a fact.".


What you read: "there is a genuine condition where people look at themselves and yet feel they are another race/ethnicity? That it's something we should accept and champion? 'I think I'm black therefore I am'? Seems like you just want to conflate it with people who are transgendered/gender dysphoria".

 

[Slayven]

Brb, I'm gonna get an open carry license and go to Walmart.

Good knowing you

 

[Crossing Eden]

And just 5-10 years ago, the idea of a Transgender person born that way was laughable as well to most. I'm not saying Transracialism is legitimate, but I have yet to see an argument employed against it that wasn't exactly used against the transgendered.

- 'Its a mental illness!'
*cough*

- 'They don't know what its like to feel oppressed!'
*nervously looking around*

- 'They aren't born that way!'
*blinking*

Yeeaaah, that's pretty much word for word the kind of arguments used against gays and transgendered.

Yes and unlike transgender we have actual results for this. Unlike "transrace" where a person, like any other person adopts the mannerisms and culture of those they spend time with as they grow up. I'm african american, and grew up in the suburbs, suburbs that are so safe that people literally leave their doors right open at night. And I can not tell you the amount of times i've had people say "You act white" because i'm generally well spoken compared to the stereotype of my race. That doesn't mean that I should or would identify as "white" when I check off a box on an application or lie about my parents. You can also be damn sure that an african american would have way more troubled being accepted as transrace than the other way around.

that's not what she is doing though.

she is saying she has a black father, she isn't saying she "was white" and is "now black"

if being transracial/transethnic is a thing to be had, this situation would not qualify.

This is another thing that's being ignored as well.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Transracial? Is that the new term for passing?

 

[davepoobond]

Why? Just because she lied? What if she says "Ok I lied I admit it, but I feel the same.", is she cleared now?

...yes? (at least as far as i'm concerned)


she isn't owning the fact that she "wants to be black" or "has become black" or "transitioned to being black" or any of the qualifiers which acknowledges she has made a transition or always felt a certain way, etc.


she is essentially saying she has "always been black" and that her black "father" is her biological father, not an adoptive father, or whatever term you want to call it in this case -- she is literally saying his sperm is half of her genetic makeup, and its a lie, or a notion that has taken form due to something underlying.

edit: since you edited in more ill respond to those as well

Or did her past lies invalidate her forever, unlike someone who would not have lied? Can she get her transracial points back if she waits long enough?

i addressed the first question, but the second as far as "getting the points back" -- i think that time has gone. She's doubled down on the lie and hasn't taken ownership of what she has done or become.

 

[Dynomutt]

I understand that tangents can form in a thread it happens but without trying being antagonistic can someone please clarify for me the ambiguity with this situation? I understand that she identifies with being Black that's fine. No need to make it complicated. Do you boo boo, its 2015. My question is where is the confusion in the fact that she misrepresented herself on many occasions:

1.) Multiple times she has presented a man as her father (semantics aside) who is not her father. She went on to clarify that father is a subjective term well knowing what the questions and her own statements implied.

2.) The relationship (called him her son) between her adopted brother and her. How can you call your brother your son when in fact her is your mother and fathers child adopted or not (unless a death/situation causes a change in legal guardianship.

3.) Investigation was launched because she allegedly fabricated multiple incidents of racial based oppression to bolster her image as not only a Black person but an individual deserving of multiple positions including her one in the NAACP. (Why didn't she just apply I'm pretty sure they are an equal opportunity hire and it would not have made a difference if she wanted to help people.)

4.) She disowned her own parents and estranged her family to further identity but lying on a job application about your race so it can look a certain way or gain something. (The first half technically is a pass and can happen for multiple reasons).

I not a judge again live your life but some of these seem intentionally disingenuous and potentially damning if true. She supposedly changed in college and this may be who she is but those questionable marks are hard to ignore. How is this ok?

 

[methane47]

What we do know is that there are no structural, physical, chemical, or otherwise any differences between the brains of a normal black, white, Asian [insert ethnicity]. What we do know is that race, as we define, it is a societal construct. Homo sapiens is Homo sapiens.

What we also know is that, due to her hobbies, studies, and interests, she had the motive to want to be perceived as black by African Americans. She's not a martyr here.

Wiki:

However, some research has shown some biological differences in brain anatomy among ethnic groups.[17] [18] There have been observed morphological differences between Caucasian and Chinese individuals in the frontal, parietal, and temporal brain regions. [18][19] Recent research has shown that African-American exhibit smaller total cerebral volume than Caucasians, although there were no statistically significant differences in total gray matter, total white matter, or ventricular CSF volumes.[17] African Americans have a larger orbitofrontal cortex than Caucasians.[17] The biological significance of these findings is unclear.

The citations reference a few studies done. I'm not entirely sold, but its a far cry from "there are no structural, physical, chemical, or otherwise any differences between the brains of a normal black, white, Asian [insert ethnicity]"

 

[block tower]

No, people identify themselves by physiognomical featuresm skin color included.
So those mixed without clear phenotypical traits of "well defined groups", call themselves mixed whatever, be it "moreno", "pardo", and other names.

Darker (or tan, color-wise) skin tone with curly hair is not enough to call someone black (negro) here. But if the person has black parents or grandparents, and says she's black, not many will care unless it is for quotas.

i see. ill have to go educate myself and read up more on this.

 

[Madness]

How black do your ancestors have to be for you to be able to call yourself black?

Doesn't seem like Rachel has any black ancestors, so I'll say at least one. Is this the new normal now? White people now get to create the concepts of race, and then deny them when it won't suit them?

 

[methane47]

Doesn't seem like Rachel has any black ancestors, so I'll say at least one. Is this the new normal now? White people now get to create the concepts of race, and then deny them when it won't suit them?

i'd posit that everyone has at least one black ancestor if you go back far enough.

 

[biggersmaller]

It doesn't bother me the way she dresses, does her makup, or styles her hair. If "transracial" must become the next lifestyle choice du jour for America to debate, so be it.

My problem is the the defenders ignoring the years of deceit and utter lack of honesty - to the point where she went the extra mile of claiming her father was black by showing a picture of herself standing with an older African American man claiming she was his daughter.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Race is a social construct. That's why groups like the NAACP exist to try and bring equality to people who are being affected negatively by something affected entirely by perception. I don't get the idea of transracial, as of today, there is nothing legitimate about the idea of being a white person but identify as black because skin color is not defining of personality. It doesnt have to say anything about you. It's defining of treatment purely because we live in a shit world. That said I don't think leaning on biology itself is a good argument. It's only okay because science can prove it? So if science comes to say transracial were a thing everyone is going to flip their perspective? I personally also find that a weak argument. If science tomorrow changed its stance on transgender is everyone just going to say fine?

 

[Ovid]

It doesn't bother me the way she dresses, does her makup, or styles her hair. If "transracial" must become the next lifestyle choice du jour for America to debate, so be it.

My problem is the the defenders ignoring the years of deceit and utter lack of honesty - to the point where she went the extra mile of claiming her father was black by showing a picture of her standing with an older African American man claiming she was his daughter.

That's what we're calling it now?

Lol.

To answer your question, you can't defend it.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

This isn't Brazil though. This has nothing to do with Brazil. Why even bring up Brazil? Is there literally no excuse that won't go unused in this thread

Because, someone pointed out before that transethnicism is a concept/word invented in this thread. Which is a pig ignorant thing to say.

Take an intro to cultural anthropology class some time, jackass.

 

[Unmasked Ferret]

I just found out that she teaches all the courses that my schools Africana studies program keeps trying to encourage me to take.

I mean it's kind of odd, but this isn't really that big of a deal I think. The only thing that I don't get is what made her think that it was a good idea to become a high ranking member of the NAACP while in blackface, how did she think people were going to react when it came out?

 

[GamerSoul]

After sleeping on it, I still think the major and really only problem I have with it is that she lied about the whole thing. Even though she pulled it off almost flawlessly, it's just weird and it would never work the other way, as many have already stated. What if she decides one day, I'm tired of being black and changes back? I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but it's not choice a majority of people have but she does in a sense. I have no problem with her saying she is more culturally inline with another culture (which is awesome for the person) and she seems like she was doing alright for herself, but going this far kinda weird. I wonder what her motive was? Anyways for better or worse, you got to be try yourself and hopefully you'll find those people who will accept you.

 

[Madness]

i'd posit that everyone has at least one black ancestor if you go back far enough.

And there it is. I guess we can all start calling ourselves African as well, because like Rachel said were all from the African continent.

What is the goal of being this disingenuous, this obtuse? Do you want us to accept white people can dress in blackface and pretend to be black? Is the fact so many of you brought up Caitlyn Jenner and transgender/gender dysphoria supposed to be that we revolt again the gains made within and without the trans community? What is the end goal with all of the defense? It seems nothing has changed. At the end of the day, white people still get to decide racial/ethnic identity for all of us. If they want to co-opt it for themselves, more power to then right?

Almost every other issue about how she's a complete liar, all her bullshit Facebook and Twitter posts have gone completely unnoticed by a lot of you.

 

[collige]

It doesn't bother me the way she dresses, does her makup, or styles her hair. If "transracial" must become the next lifestyle choice du jour for America to debate, so be it.

My problem is the the defenders ignoring the years of deceit and utter lack of honesty - to the point where she went the extra mile of claiming her father was black by showing a picture of her standing with an older African American man claiming she was his daughter.

I don't think anyone's ignoring it as much as they are talking about the idea of "transraciality" as a general concept that also kind of applies to her. It seems to me that the general consensus is that she still lied about who her family members are and possibly about the hate speech she received.

 

[block tower]

And there it is. I guess we can all start calling ourselves African as well, because like Rachel said were all from the African continent.

What is the goal of being this disingenuous, this obtuse? Do you want us to accept white people can dress in blackface and pretend to be black? Is the fact so many of you brought up Caitlyn Jenner and transgender/gender dysphoria supposed to be that we revolt again the gains made within and without the trans community? What is the end goal with all of the defense? It seems nothing has changed. At the end of the day, white people still get to decide racial/ethnic identity for all of us. If they want to co-opt it for themselves, more power to then right?

Almost every other issue about how she's a complete liar, all her bullshit Facebook and Twitter posts have gone completely unnoticed by a lot of you.

.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Yes and unlike transgender we have actual results for this. Unlike "transrace" where a person, like any other person adopts the mannerisms and culture of those they spend time with as they grow up. I'm african american, and grew up in the suburbs, suburbs that are so safe that people literally leave their doors right open at night. And I can not tell you the amount of times i've had people say "You act white" because i'm generally well spoken compared to the stereotype of my race. That doesn't mean that I should or would identify as "white" when I check off a box on an application or lie about my parents.

I don't understand though why that would invalidate someone deciding to become 'white' from a physical aspect as well (skin color) as well. People stereotype everything, including things they aspire too. Sometimes especially the things they aspire too. But the facts of her lies and fabrications do not invalidate her desires and goals, just her methods. But then, if she came out and bluntly said she wanted to be black, what would most of the reaction be? Mockery and dismissal, likely, which sounds a lot like reactions toward...

You can also be damn sure that an african american would have way more troubled being accepted as transrace than the other way around.

Well, of course. If a white person is revealed as actually being black, the irrational response from many will be betrayal. But then isn't it considered more, in a way, logical for a black person to be transrace due to the weight of oppression towards the race?

 

[Ether_Snake]

...yes? (at least as far as i'm concerned)


she isn't owning the fact that she "wants to be black" or "has become black" or "transitioned to being black" or any of the qualifiers which acknowledges she has made a transition or always felt a certain way, etc.


she is essentially saying she has "always been black" and that her black "father" is her biological father, not an adoptive father, or whatever term you want to call it in this case -- she is literally saying his sperm is half of her genetic makeup, and its a lie, or a notion that has taken form due to something underlying.

edit: since you edited in more ill respond to those as well



i addressed the first question, but the second as far as "getting the points back" -- i think that time has gone. She's doubled down on the lie and hasn't taken ownership of what she has done or become.

Maybe because she thinks nobody will accept her as who she feels she is if she says the truth? Probably why she felt she had to lie no?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

So in this post-transracial world, apparently white folks can turn into black folks. Does it work the other way around?

If not, I'm calling bullshit.

Fuck no it wouldn't work the other way around. She's as Black as I am White. Pretty sure cops wouldn't buy that.

But my question is why did her family go public and blow up her spot? If she wanna darken her skin and hang with black folk that's her business. Sad her family wants to embarrass her like this.

 

[collige]

And there it is. I guess we can all start calling ourselves African as well, because like Rachel said were all from the African continent.

What is the goal of being this disingenuous, this obtuse? Do you want us to accept white people can dress in blackface and pretend to be black? Is the fact so many of you brought up Caitlyn Jenner and transgender/gender dysphoria supposed to be that we revolt again the gains made within and without the trans community? What is the end goal with all of the defense? It seems nothing has changed. At the end of the day, white people still get to decide racial/ethnic identity for all of us. If they want to co-opt it for themselves, more power to then right?

Almost every other issue about how she's a complete liar, all her bullshit Facebook and Twitter posts have gone completely unnoticed by a lot of you.

The irony of this is that you're insisting on defining her racial identity for her. This is something that goes far beyond white people.

 

[methane47]

After sleeping on it, I still think the major and really only problem I have with it is that she lied about the whole thing. Even though she pulled it off almost flawlessly, it's just weird and it would never work the other way, as many have already stated. What if she decides one day, I'm tired of being black and changes back? I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here, but it's not choice a majority of people have but she does in a sense. I have no problem with her saying she is more culturally inline with another culture (which is awesome for the person) and she seems like she was doing alright for herself, but going this far kinda weird. I wonder what her motive was? Anyways for better or worse, you got to be try yourself and hopefully you'll find those people who will accept you.

indeed. People are people and they will do what they want.
How do you feel about that Gay celebrity Michael Glatze who after spending years upon years building the gay community up and changed his mind, went to a bible school became a preacher and married a woman and disavowed homosexuality.

If I recall this caused a huge controversy. Over whether he was ever truly gay and/or if he's now truly straight.

And there it is. I guess we can all start calling ourselves African as well, because like Rachel said were all from the African continent.

This is also a similar argument used against trans-gendered people "well i guess I'll put on a dress and a wig and call myself a woman so I can go in the women's shower/bathroom Honk Honk"

What is the goal of being this disingenuous, this obtuse? Do you want us to accept white people can dress in blackface and pretend to be black? Is the fact so many of you brought up Caitlyn Jenner and transgender/gender dysphoria supposed to be that we revolt again the gains made within and without the trans community? What is the end goal with all of the defense? It seems nothing has changed. At the end of the day, white people still get to decide racial/ethnic identity for all of us. If they want to co-opt it for themselves, more power to then right?

Almost every other issue about how she's a complete liar, all her bullshit Facebook and Twitter posts have gone completely unnoticed by a lot of you.

Well i've said in this thread about 5 that she's a terrible person. That doesn't really have anything to do with her racial identity though.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Some more insidious lies:

Phillips also remembers Dolezal telling the class that "Her stepdad, who was white, used to be very abusive. He used to beat her siblings that were dark. She said her stepdad was the one that was hateful, but her real dad is black."

http://www.people.com/article/friend-colleagues-rachel-dolezal-confused-allegations

Wow. This is going to get worse and worse the more layers come off this onion.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Some more insidious lies:

http://www.people.com/article/friend-colleagues-rachel-dolezal-confused-allegations

Wow. This is going to get worse and worse the more layers come off this onion.

This sounds like kinda of the reasons why the family outed her. That's the kind of lies that familial shooting wars are made of.

 

[Madness]

Some more insidious lies:

http://www.people.com/article/friend-colleagues-rachel-dolezal-confused-allegations

Wow. This is going to get worse and worse the more layers come off this onion.

Even worse is her adopted siblings still live with the parents and they said she alienated the oldest one and turned him racist against white people. She calls him her son now. They even showed her on her wedding day, the whole family together. But hey, she's a poor black woman trapped in a white womans body. Who are we to judge her. It's not like she isn't being proved to be a pathological liar.

Because, someone pointed out before that transethnicism is a concept/word invented in this thread. Which is a pig ignorant thing to say.

Take an intro to cultural anthropology class some time, jackass.

How enlightened you are. I'm sure that cultural anthropology class told you all about resorting to name calling and insults too huh?

 

[block tower]

so was white chicks the first transracial movie? the wayans were true heros, hopefully the get 20/20 special.

 

[Derwind]

Science is information, at the end of the day science doesn't determine what individuals should believe nor what society should decide. Science tells us everyone and even humanity itself will end one day. Doesn't mean we should just give everything up.

Here people are trying to use science to establish basis for whether they accept a principle or not, but science doesn't have any privileged authority over how people feel, it's just information useful to put things in perspective.

Look at how quickly people here are jumping on brain scans and DNA and blood tests to try and form their opinions. It's silly, because we can immediately imagine the same situation with someone who has a tiny little bit of African ancestry, and logically their parents had a little more, and their grand parents a little more, and so on, so it would imply that we would have to determine a threshold at which point someone was no longer black.

Ahh.. well I firmly believe race as a social construct is bullshit and inaccurate in many ways and its roots are prejudice as well.

And on this topic, I find it strange to legitamize transracial identity without any data to back it up because that just means they identify with a false classification of human beings meant to dehumanize and distance a particular subset of humam features and the people most commonly associated with those features.

Now, thats just how my brain is interpreting all of this, not trying to argue for or against your opinion.

 

[Ovid]

so was white chicks the first transracial movie? the wayans were true heros, hopefully the get 20/20 special.

You know she's going to get a book deal and/or be on 20/20.

It's pretty much a sure thing.

 

[GamerSoul]

Even worse is her adopted siblings still live with the parents and they said she alienated the oldest one and turned him racist against white people. She calls him her son now. They even showed her on her wedding day, the whole family together. But hey, she's a poor black woman trapped in a white womans body. Who are we to judge her. It's not like she isn't being proved to be a pathological liar.

Yea, it's interesting to say the least. She does not look good at all in the end, but I'd still would like to learn how she came to that point.

 

[NumberTwo]

You just know Hollywood will eventually adapt this to film. Jennifer Lawrence will be lauded for her portrayal as a strong Black woman who persevered through insurmountable odds.

We will truly be through the looking glass.

Spoiler

Ridley Scott will direct.

 

[thepotatoman]

This is a well thought out post, but let add some rebuttals.



Some people feel that part of their identity is having millions of piercings and tattoos ,does there need to be a scientific reason why?



Its too difficult not to use trans as an example, but you really don't know what was going on in Rachel's head as she was growing up. I've heard numerous stories from trans people about just being confused their whole life, feeling out of place, being on a football team but never feeling truly comfortable. Being raised super tough but plays with barbies..., or being forced to play with barbies but you just want to go outside and rough and tumble with the boys... Who's to say Rachel didn't grow up living a white life but feeling astranged or unconfortable in her skin but not knowing why, feeling strangely drawn to black culture and black people in general. We dont know anything about her chidhood. People here just seem to think, one day she up and said... Hmm you know what i love me some fried chicken, get me some bronzer.



Isn't this what some trans-gendered people do though? They lie about their past and background to make their acceptance smoother.



I agree its pointless, but does there need to be a point for a person to want to do it?

The science is important because it answers your other questions.

Since we know race is a cultural construct, she cannot have even thought to identify herself as black until she learned of those cultural constructs. Because of that, we know that must have been a learned behavior.

From there, we can make only make theories about how that learned behavior came to being, like maybe the culture spoke to her from a very young age, and it might have felt weird for her to be a fan of that culture while having white skin. But problems like that are best fixed through teaching acceptance, and saying it's ok to be white while appreciating and participating in black culture. On the other hand, I can't come up with any theory of how she'd learn that behavior and the best solution is to let her continue doing that behavior.

To some extent, you're right that I'd mostly not care if a stranger is doing something vaguely unhealthy or racist, but when this gets compared to transgendered people, it implies we should be actively encouraging it like how we actively encourage transgendered people to be themselves, and that's definitely not what we should be doing here.

 

[rtcn63]

 

[soul creator]

damn, Tim Wise must be like

 

[collige]

Ahh.. well I firmly believe race as a social construct is bullshit and inaccurate in many ways and its roots are prejudice as well.

And on this topic, I find it strange to legitamize transracial identity without any data to back it up because that just means they identify with a false classification of human beings meant to dehumanize and distance a particular subset of humam features and the people most commonly associated with those features.

Now, thats just how my brain is interpreting all of this, not trying to argue for or against your opinion.

I agree with this entirely. The thing is that people still self-identify with one or more races despite them being inaccurate bullshit from an objective standpoint and these self-identifications are the basis for how we collect data about racial issues. My stance is that "transracial" identities are absurd because the entire concept is a bullshit societal construct but that we also can't erase someone's self-identity for the same reason.

 

[Air]

What is going on?!