Piku_Ringo
Banned
Well shit, another roast is in order.
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Naughty Dog/Sony copy striking negative critiques of TLOU2 leaked videos (No spoilers)
- Thread starter Yoda
- Start date
Because negative opinions undercover________... cost companies millions. You would do the same. The irony of youtubers compalining their bottom line is getting hurt if they get another strike, talking negative about a game that Sony may end up loosing millions because of bad publicity.. I’m honest in saying I have no fuck & clue who is in the right here. It’s complicated.. with free speech and all.
Maybe if the game was good, the leaks would not matter.. or bad opinions.
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Seriously, a lot of people in this thread are fucking dumb.
The copyright laws don't exist just to be abused like this. It seems like people are bending over backwards to defend Sony becuase
A. They despise youtubers. Especially youtubers who criticize sjw
B. They are Sony sycophants, and are unable to just admit Sony/ND did something wrong.
It's not complicated. What Sony is doing is illegal
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
To hell with the leaker and those who are reporting on it with thumbnails and spoiler specific titles to their youtube videos. Just nuke strike all those videos until the game releases!
CuteFaceJay
Member
This all seems rather naughty.
Social media platforms have absolutely no freedom of speech because they are a private enterprise driven by profit.
You can however do it on your own property or public property.
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Azurro
Banned
That is the standard SJW response to people criticising cancel culture. However, the issue is much more complicated than that, after all, I can't just open a business and say "all chinese and gay people will not be served, fuck off". There are mechanisms to protect certain liberties, otherwise you would be able to do absolutely everything you want as long as it is done by a private enterprise/person.
The discussion of publicly available information cannot not be censored, it is already public.
martino
Member
imo Risk of loosing millions for a company never can outweighs free speech
think about it 5 minutes but with more sensible matter...
Whitecrow
Banned
You are not conscious about lots of youtubers getting strikes just for talking about this without violating anything, arent you
Sony and ND are being true dicks about this
sol_bad
Member
Gamernyc78
Banned
I love this forum, there is always some type of witch hunt 
Salem has nothing on GAF.
Salem has nothing on GAF.
Yoda
Member
I'm growing more cynical about the level of "understanding" people in this thread exhibit of YouTube's copyright system; perhaps we're seeing willful ignorance to deflect from the topic at hand.
* YouTube didn't take them down, a 3rd party did via a fraudulent copyright claim.
* Not sure anyone mentioned freedom of speech, please stay on topic.
StormCell
Member
Yep, a lot of people in this thread are fucking dumb. On this I do agree with you.
However, and I'm about to hijack your platform to speak on a different subject, what Sony and ND are doing is technically not illegal. It's asshole behavior, but it's right there for the abusing in YT's features. And THIS is what I don't like about mega platforms such as Reddit, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and so forth. You think just because they allow you to post your opinion that you have the full range of your first amendment rights on their platform, but the actual honest truth is you don't. These mega social media platforms are not public space, and if the platform owner decides your opinion is threatening or harming their bottom line, they're legally within their rights to censor it/get rid of it.
And so that is what YouTube has done for major IP holders. Under the threat of losing major advertising dollars, YT has given these holders an ability to strike the peasants with a stick even if just by mistake without any threat of legal response. "Whooops, did I hit you with that strike? Well, it is just a strike. You've nothing to worry about so long as you don't accumulate too many of those. ;-)"
Don't like it? Don't use it. Find somewhere else for videos. I miss the days when there were at least a dozen high quality Nintendo news sites that each had some top quality reporters with inside connections. That was back when the news was fun. It's sad to see that internet users have chosen, in the end, a set of mega platforms that basically make up that walled garden that so many escaped from back in the' 90s.
Arachnid
Member
Check Youtubes fair use guidelines. Videos that center on comments, criticisms, parody, and a couple other listed (though "comments and criticism" are considered the big ones) categories are are considered fair use to Youtube. A youtuber like Angry Joe who didn't even use a clip or picture from the game shouldn't be at risk.
Content creators have always discussed leaks and rumors. It's nothing new, which is why other creators are getting up in arms about this. They've done nothing wrong, and it sets a shitty precedent that contradicts rules Youtube has always upheld.
EDIT: It also looks like Youtubes fair use policy is actually set by law and is country specific. Every case of fair use on youtube is decided in a court of law in that country.
On top of that, is just 'talking' about a story/idea considered copyrighted material? You didn't actually take and include any actual material from the source. If that's the case, what's the point of an NDA?
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Sota4077
Member
If you do not sign an NDA you are not subjected to it. If shit leaked into the public you do not then have to abide by an NDA. you have no clue what you are talking about.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Not only are many here clueless as to what an NDA actually is, but NDA breaches are also notoriously difficult to prosecute.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Basically this.
Its sad to me how uppity some Youtubers get about their work/business being interfered with due to YT's copyright policies, whereas they apparently couldn't give a damn if what they are doing is hurting the livelihoods of hundreds of other people who have been working hard for years on truly very substantial (in both monetary and creative terms) projects like TLOU2.
They are making clickbait, water-cooler conversation pieces at best, by riding the coat-tails of people with real talent. Fuck 'em.
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BacklashWave534
Member
So your are saying the fair use laws don't apply for Sony and Naughty Dog?
This is not about freedom of speech, this is about abusing copyright law.
Pay attention
These people didn't work for free. Nothing is being taken away from them because people are discussing spoilers.
The justification you people are making up to justify a corporations doing something illegal is fucking gross.
Ok back on topic. If the game was not a dumpster fire that it is, Sony, ND would not care about leaks, and spoilers.
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Fraudulent copyright claims made using the dmca are illegal, by virtue of perjury
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Look, what these youtubers were doing was trying to make money off of other people's misfortune. People who I personally think are more talented and important.
Its not a difficult equation to balance for me.
Moral of the story is that Youtubers need to get it through their heads that their presence on the service, particularly as a business, is a privelige not a right and that it'd behoove them to bear that in mind as part of their editorial policy, YT's copyright system isn't close to perfect, but that's not a surprise to anyone.
what you are saying is stupid. Reporting on a videogame is not "making money off misfortune."
But even if they are(they aren't), that doesn't justify Sony abusing the copyright syatem
Moral of the story is that people like you are sycophants, who will allow a corporation to do anything to protect their bottom line.
This idea that youtubers, actually let's be honest herr, normal people should grovel before a company like Sony, and worry about whether or not what we say will anger a corporation is insane, and the fact that this is how you see people rightfully discussing public information is pathetic
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Wow look at that, Angry Joe's LoU2 video is still up.
Funny how Sony/ND go after small game channels, but when a YT account has 3.2 million subs, they don't touch him.
Funny how Sony/ND go after small game channels, but when a YT account has 3.2 million subs, they don't touch him.
WouldYouKindly
Banned
Fair use blah blah blah just stop again if this was mario or halo you can bet your ass MS and Nintendo WOULD be doing the SAME thing. So stop acting as if Sony is some fucking monster asshole company trying to kill small YouTube channels. Thats not the case the channels are talking about plot points on a UNREALESED game period. No one should be talking about what they are talking about because no one should have the game yet. Sony is merely trying to save the game from being completely spoiled for everyone and trying to get people to actually buy their game. O no a big gaming company wants their game they spent millions on to sell to get their investment back THE HORROR.
StormCell
Member
BUT MS, Nintendo, and Sony ARE "fucking monster asshole companies trying to kill small YouTube channels."
Jayjayhd34
Member
The only video I've seen removed in the last few days has been videos with actual leaked footage.
zeorhymer
Member
You must have missed the Geeks and Gamers live stream where they just talked about it. No pics, no vids, just talked about it. Or even Heelvsbabyface where he used a promo photo from 2016.
Azurro
Banned
It's irrelevant that the game isn't out. How is talking about publicly available information a crime? In your world, the only thing people could discuss is press releases.
"Don't ask questions, consume products. Then wait for new products to consume."
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
In this case it absolutely is "making money off of misfortune" because the subject at hand, and the thing that put them in the crosshairs for DMCA striking is the leaked TLOU2 stuff.
Sony didn't pull their names out of a hat, they had it coming.
You won't admit that, and instead are offering your mealy-mouthed apologia because it fits your preexisting bias and narrative.
WouldYouKindly
Banned
Irrelevant? The content is fucking stolen? Did you even read your sentence before you posted?
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Its hilarious there's actually fanboys here defending Sony but steer clear of explaining how exactly discussing a leak breaks any copyright law ever made.
Arachnid
Member
This is exactly what's confusing me. How can commenting or criticism be copyrighted? That's what NDAs are for, and like the user above said, NDAs only apply to those who signed a contract. I get and agree that it sucks for Naughty Dog that their game got spoiled prior to release, but what law forbids discussion of (what is now) public knowledge on social media? You also have the users that stated the social media itself dictates what breaks copyright on its platform, but youtube doesn't forbid discussion on leaked products. It never has. It feels like fans are bending over backwards to justify this (from a place of moral standing, of course).
As for the "making money off misfortunate" angle, yeah that's exactly that the youtubers are doing. That's exactly what any piece of news media that covers any negative happenings is doing, and I rarely ever see anything positive on the news. Context doesn't matter here. It's just reporting on a development concerning a high profile game made by a high profile company.
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BusierDonkey
Member
Mental gymnastics ending with their heads in the sand.
People are ignoring that channels are receiving strikes that had no images of footage shown, just discussion.
People are ignoring that the strikes are coming from the same shell companies like MUSO TNT Ltd. that strike other Sony-related content, specifically negative TLoU2 content in this case. The same shell company was striking PS4 Spider-Man discussion videos about the leaked costumes a year ago. How people can look at that and not question it is alarming.
The Youtube strike and claim systems are broken.
When a company like Sony claims a video the video revenue is diverted to that company. JonTron did a video where he re-wrote a piece of music for one of his videos. He went through the trouble of bringing in musicians and making changes to the core of the music so he could play it on his channel in a video as parody (Like a Weird Al song), but the video was claimed by Sean Combs as "I'll be missing you". The funny part was that the song JonTron used was based on the original Police song "Every Breath You Take". JonTron lost all the revenue from the video to someone that ripped the misic being claimed from another artist.
When a company strikes a video, the video is removed and the channel gets a black mark. Three means you're off the platform. Strikes expire over time or can be appealed. In either case the job is done and the video is no longer viewable. There are no checks made to ensure strikes are legitimate, the onus is on the channel that received the strike to appeal, but by the time the strike is sorted the story has been squashed. In this case, it's ballooning because the strikes were pretty heavy-handed being used against videos with none of the leaked media being used.
A claim is a great way to make money without doing any actual work. The Strike system is a great way for corporations to shut people up when they're saying things you don't want them to. Sony isn't going to steal pennies from the small YouTube channels, they just want them to shut up.
Just like in the past these strikes are being appealed and will likely be reversed or expire, but as the strikes are being done through a shell outside the country that's as far as legalities will take them. If litigation does move forward and enough people fight back, the shell collapses and another is opened. Large corporations have been doing this for a while now.
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jonnyp
Member
I don't know how anyone can defend that either.
However, why is the youtube copyright claim system so broken? If you make a false copyright claim then you are the one that should get a strike on your channel/user, and whoever makes such a claim has to provide actual evidence of the alleged infringement when opposed.
BusierDonkey
Member
The reason is pretty simple. YouTube can make a LOT of money with advertising from large companies and will bend over backwards to accommodate them.
YouTube doesn't make money on 8-Bit Charlie and his 3000 subscribers.
It's much easier to tell the little guy who relies on YouTube for income what to do than tell a mega corporation what to do. The little guy can't threaten to pull ads.
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Audiophile
Member
You're all missing the point.
It may be unfortunate for those who worked hard on the game that the leaks occurred and Sony have a right to strike down people who display their unreleased content.
However, this is not about peoples' feelings nor is it about people displaying their content. It's about setting a precedent and a slippery slope of copyright system abuse. Sony do not have a right to utilise copyright flags to strike down discussion of information that already exists in the public.
Also, NDA only applies to those who signed it and copyright applies to content, not discussion of that content, no matter how damaging.
If it inconveniences Sony or you, or you disagree with how the leaks came about, tough. The information is out there and you have a right to discuss it. The only thing you don't have a right to do is show their unreleased content.
YouTube may be a company but it is an effective public forum and you're welcoming large corporations to censor discussion of public knowledge.
You may think it's just a game, that it's just "this time" because it aligns with your perspective, you may think it's justified because Sony deem it damaging to their content or it hurts the feelings of those who worked on it. It doesn't matter. They don't get to tell you what you can or cannot discuss.
Whether inadvertently or not, so many seem willing to throw fundamental freedoms away without foresight because for now at least, it's on your terms. There are parallels to be found HERE...
Today it's discussing videogame spoilers, ten years from now it's dissent over a political candidate. It's may seem silly or trivial by comparison; but that's a distinction you should get to make, not a corporation.
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What is the subject at hand. Oh wait, a videogame plot leak aka public information.
Talking about a videogame is not copyright abuse.
Had what coming. What crime was committed?
Are you serious? You're sitting here spouting complete bullshit, defending a corporation breaking the law, and have the audacity to talk about "apologia".
the content being stolen is what is irrelevant.
Holy shit
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SenjutsuSage
Banned
Nothing will stop this game's success, but this is pretty fucked up, and from what I understand, illegal? Everybody should be against what they're doing if they're really having videos taken down that just talk about it, not even just the ones showing the pre-release content.
Azurro
Banned
As long as they are not distributing the stolen material, the pictures and video from the leak, then it's fine. The information itself is already public information, it isn't illegal to discuss a rumor. Just because you don't understand this topic doesn't mean that you are correct.
The Mad Draklor
Member
I like how German screamer thinks that makes Sony and Naughty Dog look any better.
- If it is a hacker, then this is the 3rd time (1st time being the PSN hack and the 2nd time being "The Interview" hack) where Sony has been hacked and their security is highly questionable.
- If it is not a hacker and the disgruntled employee story is true, then that reflects poorly on the developer and Neil Druckmann's leadership.
WouldYouKindly
Banned
Mistershine.
Banned
Thats irrelevant. The info is now public domain and free to be talked about.
The Mad Draklor
Member
Well tough shit. The means of which the material is leaked does not make discussion of the material copyright infringement.
The person who leaked the stuff definitely engaged in illegal activity as that's a breach of NDA. However, Naughty Dog and Sony using a shell company to file false copyright strikes is also illegal. Two wrongs do not make a right.
squallheart
Member
I knew there was something off about uncharted 4, felt different from the others and it was that Amy was gone.
On another note
On another note