Support NeoGAF

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Who kills more Americans, the police or ISIS?

NYPD

Far more dangerous 4 letters than ISIS.

 

[Vicetrailia]

NYPD

Far more dangerous 4 letters than ISIS.

LAPD my friend.

 

[Dartastic]

Yep. I like this guy.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

He's comparing these two on a metaphorical level and not on a literal level.

 

[Slayven]

I like how you keep ignoring one half of the statement. Despite the graphs you posted, white and black Americans are STILL closer in treatment than black Americans and persecuted minorities in ISIS territory. Maybe if you actually think about that statement and get it through your skull, you can start to understand how horrific ISIS really is.

Minorties are being beaten and killed by police everyday, minority women are getting raped by police. So it is not that dissimilar.

 

[Ferrio]

I like how you keep ignoring one half of the statement. Despite the graphs you posted, white and black Americans are STILL closer in treatment than black Americans and persecuted minorities in ISIS territory. Maybe if you actually think about that statement and get it through your skull, you can start to understand how horrific ISIS really is.

You're taking the quote the wrong way:

He's comparing these two on a metaphorical level and not on a literal level.

 

[Quixzlizx]

You're taking the quote the wrong way:

Slayven took the comparison literally and agrees with it, so I'm wondering why I'm the one you quoted.

Minorties are being beaten and killed by police everyday, minority women are getting raped by police. So it is not that dissimilar.

White people don't really think that black people are treated that badly in comparison just like you don't think that Shia muslims are being treated that badly in comparison. I'll just say that it is some poetic justice and drop the matter.

 

[Slayven]

Slayven took the comparison literally and agrees with it, so I'm wondering why I'm the one you quoted.

In the fact that Police and ISIS are oppressive regimes that need to be dealt with. Totally.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I like how you keep ignoring one half of the statement. Despite the graphs you posted, white and black Americans are STILL closer in treatment than black Americans and persecuted minorities in ISIS territory. Maybe if you actually think about that statement and get it through your skull, you can start to understand how horrific ISIS really is.

I think it would be better if you realized that when making an analogy that the severity of said analogy doesn't need to match up 100% to be true. The fact that you're saying that ISIS persecutes minorities there makes the Senators analogy was more then apt enough to make his point.

ISIS persecutes minorities. The American police force persecutes minorities. So they both engage in comparable behavior, even if it might not be at the same level of severity. The minorities in America do in fact need to be more worried about the American police force then ISIS.

What part of the Senators quote is a lie?

 

[Xe4]

He is using a very false analogy.

The police forces in many parts of the country have a very rampant corruption problem, brought on by a number of factors, largely refusing to get rid of the cops who are gigantic assholes, and even going so far as to protect them. They refuse to root out the racist members for who they are and when police officers do speak their mind are often viciously harassed by their coworkers.

Meanwhile, ISIS burns people alive and commits mass genocide. When the day comes that cops decide to execute dozens of black men by lining them up on the edge of a ditch and then opening fire, shoot into a crowd of people, behead black men on camera, or throw black men off buildings after a mock trial, then we can have this conversation. However, hyperbole like this is getting nobody anywhere.

Saying that ISIS has not terrorized you is a non-argument. Of course they haven't, they're half a world a way. If there were black Americans in Iraq, I guarantee you they would be killed far more often than if they were in Ferguson.

Comparing the police forces in the US to the Taliban, for instance would still be wrong, but would perhaps be a better analogy. That analogy, however would not bring attention to his cause, which is why he is using ISIS as an example.

 

[J10]

Slayven took the comparison literally and agrees with it, so I'm wondering why I'm the one you quoted.

He shows you the disparity in treatment by race in America and you really want to harp on the idea that Americans in general are doing better than Muslims dealing with ISIS. Like we don't know that everything is relative. Yes, we would rather be in America than most places in the middle east. That's not really saying anything profound.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

In the fact that Police and ISIS are oppressive regimes that need to be dealt with. Totally.

That seems like a bit of a stretch in logic and reality. One is an organization tasked with upholding the law and unfortuntely bad apples, influence, etc. have corrupted a decent amount of officers. The other is an organization with the sole goal of oppression, murder, extremism, etc.. While you can say the negatives of police officers are similar to the whole of ISIS you can't compare them literally.

 

[FelixOrion]

He can sketch too. This guy is pretty badass.

Before being elected, he was a barber with a law degree but doesn't practice law because he refused to join the Nebraska State Bar Association.

I think people need to understand a little more history of Ernie as well. He knows exactly what he was doing and was purposely inflammatory. Nebraska hasn't done anything to reign in the police or address any issues. We have had a number of high profile incidents and absolutely nothing has changed. Being majority republican and with lots of rural white senators you can only imagine what they think of black north omaha. Ernie regularly makes inflammatory comments which bring attention to whatever he is talking about.

I don't know if he was necessarily trying to be inflammatory here initially, but he absolutely has a glorious history of doing so on the regular. It really is a shame he so vilified by so many for speaking the truth.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

He is using a very false analogy.

The police forces in many parts of the country have a very rampant corruption problem, brought on by a number of factors, largely refusing to get rid of the cops who are gigantic assholes, and even going so far as to protect them. They refuse to root out the racist members for who they are and when police officers do speak their mind are often viciously harassed by their coworkers.

Meanwhile, ISIS burns people alive and commits mass genocide. When the day comes that cops decide to shoot into a crowd of people or throw black men off buildings after a mock trial, then we can have this conversation, but hyperbole like this is getting nobody anywhere.

Saying that ISIS has not terrorized you is a non-argument. Of course they haven't they're half a world a way. If there were black Americans in Iraq, I guarantee you they would be killed far more often than if they were in Ferguson.

It's not a non-argument. Its his argument. He's pointing out that people are so afraid of ISIS in America, yet there's a force at home that seems to be a much greater threat to certain segments of the population. The fact that ISIS burns people alives and beheads people is not being debated. It's a given. The question is, do these actions make ISIS a threat to the people that he represents. He believes the answer is no, and that a greater threat is posed by the police which, to him, look like they're growing more and more unaccountable each day.

 

[Angelus Errare]

No force of power is flawless and nobody is saying that the police is without flaws. Mistakes occur. And some people that are officers shouldn't have that job. But again, how exactly does that render the work of the majority of cops, who go to work every day, putting their lives on the line, rendered useless? This attitude only serves to worsen the problem, not solve it. What incentive would a good cop have to remain good if he's regarded as Al-Baghdadi by everyone in the neighbourhood? Might aswell just play it safe and assume everyone's out to get me.

Statistics will show these aren't "mistakes" police are committing.

What's it called when you repeat the same mistakes for...I dunno 80+ years?

 

[Quixzlizx]

I think it would be better if you realized that when making an analogy that the severity of said analogy doesn't need to match up 100% to be true. The fact that you're saying that ISIS persecutes minorities there makes the Senators analogy was more then apt enough to make his point.

ISIS persecutes minorities. The American police force persecutes minorities. So they both engage in comparable behavior, even if it might not be at the same level of severity. The minorities in America do in fact need to be more worried about the American police force then ISIS.

What part of the Senators quote is a lie?

He shows you the disparity in treatment by race in America and you really want to harp on the idea that Americans in general are doing better than Muslims dealing with ISIS. Like we don't know that everything is relative. Yes, we would rather be in America than most places in the middle east. That's not really saying anything profound.

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse or not. I was arguing with someone (Slayven) who was actually saying that both situations were entirely comparable, as in American police are just as bad as ISIS. I was using that ignorant opinion to show how easy it is for people who are entirely self-absorbed to the context of their own problems to end up being apathetic towards the relative plight of others, regardless of race, religion, or gender.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Statistics will show these aren't "mistakes" police are committing.

What's it called when you repeat the same mistakes for...I dunno 80+ years?

White Supremacy

 

[Slayven]

That seems like a bit of a stretch in logic and reality. One is an organization tasked with upholding the law and unfortuntely bad apples, influence, etc. have corrupted a decent amount of officers. The other is an organization with the sole goal of oppression, murder, extremism, etc.. While you can say the negatives of police officers are similar to the whole of ISIS you can't compare them literally.

Then why aren't they doing anything about it?

Statistics will show these aren't "mistakes" police are committing.

What's it called when you repeat the same mistakes for...I dunno 80+ years?

History

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse or not. I was arguing with someone (Slayven) who was actually saying that both situations were entirely comparable, as in American police are just as bad as ISIS. I was using that ignorant opinion to show how easy it is for people who are entirely self-absorbed to the context of their own problems to end up being apathetic towards the relative plight of others, regardless of race, religion, or gender.

I don't think he was. Saying that there are certain places where black people fear cops as much as a minority in Iraq fears ISIS isn't really the same as saying that they're entirely comparable. It just makes the claim that in certain places with certain people the comparison isn't a leap in logic.

 

[NastyBook]

There are cover ups =/= The entire police force as a whole is covering up crimes and most cops are bad people because.

I'm out.

I wish you would wake up black in a city where cops prey on you and yours tomorrow. I love how you have empathy for Hideo Kojima's position, but not minorities.

Fuck outta here.

And shame on the people who are merely looking at his comparison as too extreme and then dismissing it. That's missing the entire point. We know what ISIS is. What are fucking cops supposed to do? If they were doing their jobs right in these different areas of the U.S., this comparison wouldn't even exist.

He's not wrong.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I don't think he was. Saying that there are certain places where black people fear cops as much as a minority in Iraq fears ISIS isn't really the same as saying that they're entirely comparable.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=157740841&postcount=71

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Then why aren't they doing anything about it?

That's a loaded question because the answer will never be good enough for people outside of "we've fired the entire police force and any wrong doing now means automatic prison sentences."

Police organizations are now discussing cameras and they're being trialed in various areas. We have more politicians speaking out against this due to public concern. The police force landscape won't change over night but slowly. The sad, hard reality people have to understand (but don't necessarily have to accept) is these brutalities are going to be around 10 years from now. Change always has opposition.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=157740841&postcount=71

Nothing in that post says that the two organizations are entirely comparable. It's just saying that there have been plenty of news reports lately that show that there are cops that exhibit behavior comparable to what ISIS has done.

 

[J10]

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse or not. I was arguing with someone (Slayven) who was actually saying that both situations were entirely comparable, as in American police are just as bad as ISIS. I was using that ignorant opinion to show how easy it is for people who are entirely self-absorbed to the context of their own problems to end up being apathetic towards the relative plight of others, regardless of race, religion, or gender.

They are comparable because they're relative. They don't need to be exactly equal to be comparable. Whether someone is apathetic to the plight of another group is a separate issue.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Nothing in that post says that the two organizations are entirely comparable. It's just saying that there have been plenty of news reports lately that show that there are cops that exhibit behavior comparable to what ISIS has done.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I see a much stronger link to mentioning that ISIS is trying to commit genocide like the Nazis did, and then a response of "Well, some of these recent police cases are basically the same."

 

[Xe4]

It's not a non-argument. Its his argument. He's pointing out that people are so afraid of ISIS in America, yet there's a force at home that seems to be a much greater threat to certain segments of the population. The fact that ISIS burns people alives and beheads people is not being debated. It's a given. The question is, do these actions make ISIS a threat to the people that he represents. He believes the answer is no, and that a greater threat is posed by the police which, to him, look like they're growing more and more unaccountable each day.

Mountain Lions kill more people in america every year than ISIS has, or ever will. That doesn't make it fair to call mountain lions the ISIS of the animal kingdom. All calling police terrorists will do is heighten the already high tension between black Americans and police. Don't compare a organization that is intent on killing and hurting as many people as possible, to an organization that was created with the intent to protect and serve, but is often unfortunately corrupt, inefficient and sometimes racist. There is no way to "fix" ISIS, no way to change their minds, while there is a way to fix the police organizations in America, fairly easily if we had the willpower to do so in this country.

I understand the point he's trying to make. We're afraid of the bogyman thousands of miles away while there is a very real problem in our country, but that doesn't make it OK to call a large segment of the population terrorists, while most have done nothing wrong. I believe it is very poor wording on his part.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I wish you would wake up black in a city where cops prey on you and yours tomorrow. I love how you have empathy for Hideo Kojima's position, but not minorities.

Fuck outta here.

And shame on the people who are merely looking at his comparison as too extreme and then dismissing it. That's missing the entire point. We know what ISIS is. What are fucking cops supposed to do? If they were doing their jobs right in these different areas of the U.S., this comparison wouldn't even exist.

He's not wrong.

lmao, godddamn!

Mountain Lions kill more people in america every year than ISIS has, or ever will. That doesn't make it fair to call mountain lions the ISIS of the animal kingdom. All calling police terrorists will do is heighten the already high tension between black Americans and police. Don't compare a organization that is intent on killing and hurting as many people as possible, to an organization that was created with the intent to protect and serve, but is often unfortunately corrupt, inefficient and sometimes racist. There is no way to "fix" ISIS, no way to change their minds, while there is a way to fix the police organizations in America, fairly easily if we had the willpower to do so in this country.

I understand the point he's trying to make. We're afraid of the bogyman thousands of miles away while there is a very real problem in our country, but that doesn't make it OK to call a large segment of the population terrorists, while most have done nothing wrong. I believe it is very poor wording on his part.

We talking about minorities or police?

 

[Slayven]

That's a loaded question because the answer will never be good enough for people outside of "we've fired the entire police force and any wrong doing now means automatic prison sentences."

Police organizations are now discussing cameras and they're being trialed in various areas. We have more politicians speaking out against this due to public concern. The police force landscape won't change over night but slowly. The sad, hard reality people have to understand (but don't necessarily have to accept) is these brutalities are going to be around 10 years from now. Change always has opposition.

No sane person is asking for change over night, but they should at least try to change instead of "fuck you do as you told or we will shoot you".

 

[Sushi Nao]

I like this guy

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Thoughts? Was he in the right? Just poorly worded? Should he apologize?

I can certainly see where he's coming from. As he's talking about his and his constituent's perspective, I wouldn't have any basis for saying he's wrong. Appears well worded to me. Shouldn't have to apologize even if it weren't as well worded. People getting offended need to understand that the world is sometimes offensive, especially when you've stuck yourself in a padded echo chamber.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I see a much stronger link to mentioning that ISIS is trying to commit genocide like the Nazis did, and then response of "Well, some of these recent police cases are basically the same."

Well when you have multiple accounts of police officers showing obvious racial bias and they not only do not get fired for it, but have oftentimes have the police force cover for said people, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that AT BEST the police force is an organization that is willing to cover up racists and murderers.

They may not be trying to commit genocide, but they're obviously not bashful about killing minorities because of their racial bias, or are willing to cover up those who are so they don't get in trouble. Which is where the comparison with ISIS comes in.

 

[J10]

I gotta be honest, I don't give a fuck about the feelings of mountain lions at all. I'll call them terrorists if I feel like it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

No sane person is asking for change over night, but they should at least try to change instead of "fuck you do as you told or we will shoot you".

You asked me why they weren't doing anything about it. I gave you my answer. You are now moving to how corrupt police officers operate. Can you at least admit steps are being done, even if slowly, to combat police brutality?

This does not mean the issue doesn't need to be talked about. Public dismay for police officers is what's giving this Senator support (good chance there are white people with him as well). It's what's leading other politicians to do the same (even if they're a minority at the moment).

You say no sane person asks for change over night but then say they should at least try to change the "fuck you do as you told or we will shoot you" but they're trying to curb that behavior. It won't happen over night. It's part of the overall problem and no specific cog in this system will be remedied tomorrow.

 

[Slayven]

You asked me why they weren't doing anything about it. I gave you my answer. You are now moving to how corrupt police officers operate. Can you at least admit steps are being done, even if slowly, to combat police brutality?

This does not mean the issue doesn't need to be talked about. Public dismay for police officers is what's giving this Senator support (good chance there are white people with him as well). It's what's leading other politicians to do the same (even if they're a minority at the moment).

You say no sane person asks for change over night but then say they should at least try to change the "fuck you do as you told or we will shoot you" but they're trying to curb that behavior. It won't happen over night. It's part of the overall problem and no specific cog in this system will be remedied tomorrow.

So whats your point we shouldn't talk about or still be mad?

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Danielle Savington of Papillion, an attorney and part-time waitress...

Wait, what!?

 

[maquiladora]

“My ISIS is the police. Nobody from ISIS ever terrorized us as a people as the police do us daily.

It certainly attention grabbing and I'm certainly no fan of the actions of the US police force but this comparison is kinda silly. ISIS isn't a threat to anyone in America. If you don't live in the middle east or North Africa then everything that effects you negatively...is worse than ISIS.

 

[YoungHav]

Mountain Lions kill more people in america every year than ISIS has, or ever will. That doesn't make it fair to call mountain lions the ISIS of the animal kingdom. All calling police terrorists will do is heighten the already high tension between black Americans and police. Don't compare a organization that is intent on killing and hurting as many people as possible, to an organization that was created with the intent to protect and serve, but is often unfortunately corrupt, inefficient and sometimes racist. There is no way to "fix" ISIS, no way to change their minds, while there is a way to fix the police organizations in America, fairly easily if we had the willpower to do so in this country.

I understand the point he's trying to make. We're afraid of the bogyman thousands of miles away while there is a very real problem in our country, but that doesn't make it OK to call a large segment of the population terrorists, while most have done nothing wrong. I believe it is very poor wording on his part.

Boo hoo. They've had since 1704 to get their act together and for the most part have brutalized and targeted minorities with impunity. Just a more recent example, there has been around 5000 lynchings in the South. Many of which were advertised in the newspaper ahead of time... how is such a thing possible without police complicity? Or how lynch mobs "broke into prisons" and kidnapped black suspects to lynch before they saw trial?

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Mountain Lions kill more people in america every year than ISIS has, or ever will. That doesn't make it fair to call mountain lions the ISIS of the animal kingdom. All calling police terrorists will do is heighten the already high tension between black Americans and police. Don't compare a organization that is intent on killing and hurting as many people as possible, to an organization that was created with the intent to protect and serve, but is often unfortunately corrupt, inefficient and sometimes racist. There is no way to "fix" ISIS, no way to change their minds, while there is a way to fix the police organizations in America, fairly easily if we had the willpower to do so in this country.

I understand the point he's trying to make. We're afraid of the bogyman thousands of miles away while there is a very real problem in our country, but that doesn't make it OK to call a large segment of the population terrorists, while most have done nothing wrong. I believe it is very poor wording on his part.

You say that the problem of police corruption would be easy to fix, if only we had the willpower. Don't you think that raising awareness to the issues is part of gaining that willpower? If more Americans knew that some segments were more threatened by police than ISIS, don't you think that would do something to help foster change? The only way we're going to fix the problematic sections of our police forces in America is to show how dangerous these sections are to our citizens. It seems counterproductive to say "You can voice your concerns about the dangers posed by bad police officers, but only if you refer to them using these terms."

 

[Subpar Spatula]

So whats your point we shouldn't talk about or still be mad?

I already talked about it in my comment but I'll expand on it for you:

Talk about the situation but also have the ability to say, "you know what? Those police officers did a good job" instead of

Then why aren't they doing anything about it?

This just skews the conversation to deny that any change is being done. We have more exposure, more police are testing cameras, politicians are speaking out and gaining support, etc.

I can understand your position, though. You're coming at it from a tangible perspective. There's a really good chance you won't see any benefit to your well being (as being done by police in general) for decades. We can demonize those who do bad but can also acknowledge the good ones. It's why catchisms such as "what if the person was black?", "should have extended a hug", "should have not had dehumanizing eyes" etc. just serve to derail any discussion about any change that has occured: the discussion is nipped in the bud and it's just lampooning from then on out.

 

[Enzom21]

Mountain Lions kill more people in america every year than ISIS has, or ever will. That doesn't make it fair to call mountain lions the ISIS of the animal kingdom. All calling police terrorists will do is heighten the already high tension between black Americans and police. Don't compare a organization that is intent on killing and hurting as many people as possible, to an organization that was created with the intent to protect and serve, but is often unfortunately corrupt, inefficient and sometimes racist. There is no way to "fix" ISIS, no way to change their minds, while there is a way to fix the police organizations in America, fairly easily if we had the willpower to do so in this country.

I understand the point he's trying to make. We're afraid of the bogyman thousands of miles away while there is a very real problem in our country, but that doesn't make it OK to call a large segment of the population terrorists, while most have done nothing wrong. I believe it is very poor wording on his part.

That's not entirely true now is it?
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

For example, New England settlers appointed Indian Constables to police Native Americans (National Constable Association, 1995), the St. Louis police were founded to protect residents from Native Americans in that frontier city, and many southern police departments began as slave patrols. In 1704, the colony of Carolina developed the nation's first slave patrol. Slave patrols helped to maintain the economic order and to assist the wealthy landowners in recovering and punishing slaves who essentially were considered property.

As Turner, Giacopassi and Vandiver (2006:186) remark, “the literature clearly establishes that a legally sanctioned law enforcement system existed in America before the Civil War for the express purpose of controlling the slave population and protecting the interests of slave owners. The similarities between the slave patrols and modern American policing are too salient to dismiss or ignore. Hence, the slave patrol should be considered a forerunner of modern American law enforcement.”

 

[Slayven]

I already talked about it in my comment but I'll expand on it for you:

Talk about the situation but also have the ability to say, "you know what? Those police officers did a good job" instead of



This just skews the conversation to deny that any change is being done. We have more exposure, more police are testing cameras, politicians are speaking out and gaining support, etc.

I can understand your position, though. You're coming at it from a tangible perspective. There's a really good chance you won't see any benefit to your well being (as being done by police in general) for decades. We can demonize those who do bad but can also acknowledge the good ones. It's why catchisms such as "what if the person was black?", "should have extended a hug", "should have not had dehumanizing eyes" etc. just serve to derail any discussion about any change that has occured: the discussion is nipped in the bud and it's just lampooning from then on out.

But they are not doing a good job if they see illegal shit and do nothing about it. I am not giving them free pass

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I already talked about it in my comment but I'll expand on it for you:

Talk about the situation but also have the ability to say, "you know what? Those police officers did a good job" instead of



This just skews the conversation to deny that any change is being done. We have more exposure, more police are testing cameras, politicians are speaking out and gaining support, etc.

I can understand your position, though. You're coming at it from a tangible perspective. There's a really good chance you won't see any benefit to your well being (as being done by police in general) for decades. We can demonize those who do bad but can also acknowledge the good ones. It's why catchisms such as "what if the person was black?", "should have extended a hug", "should have not had dehumanizing eyes" etc. just serve to derail any discussion about any change that has occured: the discussion is nipped in the bud and it's just lampooning from then on out.

Police officers don't deserve a pat on the back just because they do their job right. They shouldn't be praised because they didn't go power hungry and hurt someone who didn't deserve it. That's what should be expected of them by default.

You're essentially saying that we should be praising them when they don't act like assholes and are willing to do their job right.

 

[Xe4]

lmao, godddamn!



We talking about minorities or police?

I think that's the heart of the problem. We as a populace, especially since the war on drugs have been subconsciously making the assumption that black people are criminals, and have been discriminating against them. This especially is true with police. There are many police that don't think this, but they aren't on the news, and they don't beat black men and shoot black men. So we don't think about them. And of course those who do beat black men get away with it, because they have better lawyers, and are better friends with the courts.

This leads us to believe that all police are bad, which can be just as bad an assumption, given the shooting of police seen recently. It's not as bad of a problem, because black people don't hold nearly as much power as police do, but it is still a problem. There are many people that seriously believe all cops are evil people, that they are literally all terrorists. This is just the same as many cops believe all blacks are criminals and drug dealers. It then becomes a self replicating problem that gets us to where we are today.

I think it's better for both "sides" to see it as a race relations problem that has gotten way too out of had, mostly due to the incompetence of the higher ups of the police, than that every cop decided to join to harass black people.

It's not that simple, obviously, but I think that's the gist of my views.

You say that the problem of police corruption would be easy to fix, if only we had the willpower. Don't you think that raising awareness to the issues is part of gaining that willpower? If more Americans knew that some segments were more threatened by police than ISIS, don't you think that would do something to help foster change? The only way we're going to fix the problematic sections of our police forces in America is to show how dangerous these sections are to our citizens. It seems counterproductive to say "You can voice your concerns about the dangers posed by bad police officers, but only if you refer to them using these terms."

I agree to an extent. My problem is his wording. ISIS is a horrible organization, and it bugs me a lot for any organization to be compared to that specific brand of evil. I'm saying as a state senator, when writing his speeches he could have been a little more careful to make it clear that police are more of a threat to many people than ISIS, not that police=ISIS.

That's not entirely true now is it?
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

Fascinating. I didn't know that. I retract that statement for some police organizations. Of course that is not true for all police departments, and arguing that police departments are awful because of that would be a genetic fallacy, but I know that's not what you're saying. Im sure some of police departments current behavior stems from them being such horrible organizations back in the day

 

[Subpar Spatula]

But they are not doing a good job if they see illegal shit and do nothing about it. I am not giving them free pass

Don't give them a free pass. Never said you should. Are you reading my comments?

 

[Angelus Errare]

I think that's the heart of the problem. We as a populace, especially since the war on drugs have been subconsciously making the assumption that black people are criminals, and have been discriminating against them. This especially is true with police. There are many police that don't think this, but they aren't on the news, and they don't beat black men and shoot black men. So we don't think about them. And of course those who do beat black men get away with it, because they have better lawyers, and are better friends with the courts.

This leads us to believe that all police are bad, which can be just as bad an assumption, given the shooting of police seen recently. It's not as bad of a problem, because black people don't hold nearly as much power as police do, but it is still a problem. There are many people that seriously believe all cops are evil people, that they are literally all terrorists. This is just the same as many cops believe all blacks are criminals and drug dealers. It then becomes a self replicating problem that gets us to where we are today.

I think it's better for both "sides" to see it as a race relations problem that has gotten way too out of had, mostly due to the incompetence of the higher ups, than that every cop decided to join to harass black people.

It's not that simple, obviously, but I think that's the gist of my views.

Has gotten out of hand? Did the last like 300 years of American history disappear overnight? It's ALWAYS been like this! There was never a time where it was in hand for black people.

 

[YoungHav]

That's not entirely true now is it?
http://plsonline.eku.edu/insidelook/brief-history-slavery-and-origins-american-policing

It's crazy how a majority of Americans can live in some fanciful stage play version of America all their lives without knowing the country's truths.

Blacks have never had the luxury.

 

[IISANDERII]

From my home I can literally jog to the World Trade Center in under 10min. A course I took was interrupted and the whole building, as well as about a dozen blocks around Times Square, had to be evacuated due to a terrorist bomb threat... yet still as a black Manhattanite I fear the NYPD more than Al Queda.

 

[Merc_]

Not a single lie was said.

Also, hello at the police apologists coming out in this thread. I'm sure Patrol will be here soon to provide an in depth example of #yesallcops.

 

[PopeReal]

I like this man. I agree 100%.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

And to me, it indicates a lack of a feeling of manhood and the gun is not an extension of a person. The person becomes an extension of the gun. And without the gun, he feels insecure, he's frightened, he thinks people are going to hurt him. And I would hate to live like that. But by the same token, a scared person is the last one who ought to have a weapon...

Wow, he hit the nail right on the head there.