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Staff NeoGAF Ban Review/Justice Project

M1chl

Gold Member
Dec 25, 2019
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To take it to an extreme, getting stabbed in your face, isn't much better than getting stabbed in the back. Honesty about intentions are nice, but when your intentions are to shit up everyone's experience...

And it's blatantly a bad take. PC always wins, but not in a case where a last-gen game is being ported to PC, and a next-gen game is being designed from the ground up, years later. The PC port isn't going to magically sprout an entire new visual design, to take advantage of that power.

Any average gamer could tell you that. The fact that our 'VFX Guru' said this with a straight face, is an embarrassment.
I do not disagree, but ban hardly teach someone something, it's better to just ignore posts. Some people drench their faces in attention and that's why keep doing it, because if people take the bait, why not give it to them. Sooner people starts to ignore such low level baits, sooner that person start to be normal. And I think that if he talks about something which he knows, it's certainly good for this forum. About rendering techniques and that sort of thing. i personally enjoying that. However his bait/troll intentions are apparent, when he made threads like this:

It's just that certain groups of members cannot resist to take the bait. He has that "Milo Yiannopoulos defect"...
 

Fake

Formerly '~Fake'
Dec 20, 2018
8,702
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Rio de Janeiro
I do not disagree, but ban hardly teach someone something, it's better to just ignore posts.
How can you give an advice you don't even follow?

The best case here is if everyone here ignore most of the people. Easy for them, even more for the staff.

Dude I'm still waiting
An insider tag member who spend most of his time on this forum posting on next gen thread since the specullation war begins.
 
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M1chl

Gold Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,168
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730
Prague, Czech Republic
I saying VFX speaks bullshit, thats all.
I don't disagree when it comes to console games, however as someone with his portfolio, he can talk interestingly about technologies in vacuum, not in a way "PC does everything better huurrr"...that's my point. And also that people easily take his baits and that's why he is doing that much.
 

Fake

Formerly '~Fake'
Dec 20, 2018
8,702
12,406
830
Rio de Janeiro
I don't disagree when it comes to console games, however as someone with his portfolio, he can talk interestingly about technologies in vacuum, not in a way "PC does everything better huurrr"...that's my point. And also that people easily take his baits and that's why he is doing that much.
He just need to remove that tag before engaging or baiting for nothing. Imagine John from Digital Foundry with such a behavior.

Again, we came to the point of the initial conversation. How can you spect a decent conversation with someone that like to bait most of the time? Don't matter if know tech or not, nothing good coming for a bait.

Is not like him make a bait, but the guy is a bait machine himself.
 
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M1chl

Gold Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,168
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Prague, Czech Republic
He just need to remove that tag before engaging or baiting for nothing. Imagine John from Digital Foundry with such a behavior.

Again, we came to the point of the initial conversation. How can you spect a decent conversation with someone that like to bait most of the time? Don't matter if know tech or not, nothing good coming for a bait.

Is not like him make a bait, but the guys is a bait machine himself.
With this I agree.
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
7,160
23,947
765
I do not disagree, but ban hardly teach someone something, it's better to just ignore posts. Some people drench their faces in attention and that's why keep doing it, because if people take the bait, why not give it to them. Sooner people starts to ignore such low level baits, sooner that person start to be normal. And I think that if he talks about something which he knows, it's certainly good for this forum. About rendering techniques and that sort of thing. i personally enjoying that. However his bait/troll intentions are apparent, when he made threads like this:

It's just that certain groups of members cannot resist to take the bait. He has that "Milo Yiannopoulos defect"...
There's a time and a place for Milo trolling, and constant sperging and falsehoods are not Milo-tier.

As far as everyone not taking the bait, I totally agree. That's another utopian solution that's never going to happen, though. So many people are just as antsy for a fight as VFX, let alone the easily offended.

Anyway, I'm signing off here. I wanted to say that I think VFX is capable of great things, and has shown that on occasion, but for as long as he acts like a bottom-tier poster, and even lets that color his tech advice, he doesn't even deserve the tag.
 
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M1chl

Gold Member
Dec 25, 2019
5,168
7,919
730
Prague, Czech Republic
There's a time and a place for Milo trolling, and constant sperging and falsehoods are not Milo-tier.

As far as everyone not taking the bait, I totally agree. That's another utopian solution that's never going to happen, though. So many people are just as antsy for a fight as VFX, let alone the easily offended.

Anyway, I'm signing off here. I wanted to say that I think VFX is capable of great things, and has shown that on occassion, but for as long as he acts like a bottom-tier poster, and even lets that color his tech advice, he doesn't even deserve the tag.
I agree with this, maybe I was not exactly correct calling him "Milo-tier troll", however to get the point across I think it worked. To an extent.

Also I wanted to use "antsy" before, however I did not know if I am remembering the word right, so I search for "angsty", which is fear in German and that was not it. So it's nice to see the discussion brighing some fruits, even totally unrelated.
 

Happosai

Member
May 13, 2020
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myanimelist.net
Rest assured, he has other alts sitting dormant in here too...but this one was active:


The profile lists 4-posts...how?
 
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Jan 16, 2020
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Personally, I think that "industry veteran" tag is the source of the problem. One can have a stellar resume in a particular field, but that doesn't mean they know anything special even about things that are closely related. Anyone who has met a university professor can attest to that. Not much different than all the gaming rig builders who think they're computer architecture experts because they studied STEM and snapped some components together.

There are many experienced professionals here from what I can tell who are perfectly nice and don't need to put their credentials over everything they write. Better that way, in fact; let their arguments stand on their own merits.
 

-Vyse-

Formerly 'VysePSU'
May 9, 2019
3,256
5,814
850
I don't presume to speak for the forum staff but perhaps EviLore would welcome you back, Shantae, if you decided to take some time off from the internet to see a therapist and work on improving your mental wellbeing and gained a likeable personality? People should use their bans to reflect on themselves and act on what you know you need to prioritize. Creating an alt isn't really all that surprising, but any more and you look desperate.
 
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Saber

Formerly 'Saberyoko'
Jan 30, 2019
2,934
2,746
540
Oh my...I like the discussions you guys are having. Kinda feels good to read.

Though I'm quite happy that I don't participate in those heated fanboy vs fanboy discussions, let alone tech discussion(although this one is because I'm no tech guy...my brother is). Quite sad to notice how low people can get because of a console. Not saying I get heated by some discussions here and there, but going so far for consoles? Nah, I rather prefer playing them.

As a sidenote, hows that special tags even work? Do thr guy have to prove something or there is process behind?
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

Milk Connoisseur
Feb 2, 2018
17,471
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I guess don't delete the other half of the sentence you're quoting? The point was that creating multiple alt accounts is unexpected, more desperate than creating a single alt account.
Eh, the only place I've ever been perma'd turned to shit a few months later (or at least that's what another girl told me) and I never cared much to go back to said place or create alts. Which is why I said I guess.

As a sidenote, hows that special tags even work? Do thr guy have to prove something or there is process behind?
You say something that is either cool or dumb enough to get a tag over it.

What happened to him? You can't even click his name.
He was the alt of another perma'd member. He most likely asked to be deleted or something.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
882
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So VFXVeteran VFXVeteran got in touch with me and asked if I could post this on behalf of him.


I just wanted to express my thoughts about my ban and what I see as a major problem with this site (and others) and the whole console warring situation.

The biggest problem with this site are the Sony guys and their arrogance. They simply feel they are superior to other people who don’t share their fire for the Sony PS because there is more of them and they can dogpile on people and outnumber their opponents. People are tired of seeing all the Craig comments referring to Halo and thus Xbox gamers. People are tired of them gloating “best graphics” no matter what shape or condition a PS exclusive is in, it will always beat out everything else simply because it’s the most popular hardware system. People are tired of hearing that the XSX SSD is too slow at moving data through than the PS5 so are dismissed from even talking about SSD performance. People are tired of hearing that only their developers can make a masterpiece while all other 3rd party companies are shit. The smug attitudes of the Sony people are repulsive, and they resort to attacks if anyone has any slither of intelligence to refute their claims. They hate me because I am continuously making them prove their claims and they simply can’t.

The pot has been cooking for some time now and I don’t think things between me, the mods and the Sony crew will ever change unless everyone gets treated the exact same. My working in the industry shouldn’t mean that I am required to act professionally at every single thread and post unless I get the support of the mods. If I’m required to never make snide comments or engage when other people attack me, my career or my personal hardware preferences, then it should be made known that there will be consequences for personally attacking me (or anyone for that matter). I can guarantee 100% of my opinions will only be from speaking as a professional. It just won’t work any other way. If I fall out of line, I can absolutely accept a ban in good graces. That has never been established by the mods and me. I’ve sent them PMs asking what they expected of me wearing the title in this forum but no real conversation has ever been made other than when I got the title verified. Perhaps because they don’t ‘give a fuck’.

People often tell me that I need to ignore them or be nice, but I’ve tried being nice and it got me nowhere. I tried respecting these guys and I still got attacked. Even when I’ve made mistakes in calling out some things and apologized and took it on the chin, it is just used for more flames for the future to discredit me. If I go and complain, I’m being a whiner and seeking sympathy from the mods. If I argue back with them, I’m banned because the mods want me to continue to act professional – which should it be? If it’s in the best interest of the mods to get my title removed, so be it. But if that happens, then I should be allowed to act like the very people who badger everyone else on these boards and not feel fear of getting banned for making snide comments which they do on a regular basis without consequence. Everybody should be accountable. Not just me. Profession or no profession.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
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VFXVeteran VFXVeteran also sent me a message to post on his behalf. this one was for Evillore himself.
Hey Tyler it's VFXVeteran, just borrowing my friend's account real quick (but you can delete it, he doesn't care). Firstly, cute thing you did there banning me for warring. Secondly, just for clarification are you seriously okay with the way NeoGaf is right now? There will be a Sonypony Community | OT thread by the end of the year (if there isn't one already). Is the site's moral genocide against vetted professional insiders supposed to be your revenge against the "insiders" who scorned you? Good grief. No offense but be honest, if you heard of someone else being brutally harassed and humiliated like i have been, wouldn't you think that it's the most pathetic and predicatble thing ever?

As a fellow human being, if you're not playing Horizon on PC already, I urge you to consider it. It looks better than Horizon 2 on PS5.
 
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Aug 28, 2019
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"The biggest problem with this site are the Sony guys and their arrogance." - hey good thing you passed on this message, clearly he hasn't learned much of anything and hasn't done much self-reflection, maybe now the mods can extend his ban? lol
 
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nush

Gold Member
Oct 16, 2017
6,813
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A long haul flight from wherever you are.
"The biggest problem with this site are the Sony guys and their arrogance." - hey good thing you passed on this message, clearly he hasn't learned much of anything and hasn't done much self-reflection, maybe now the mods can extend his ban? lol
The fact that he had a lackey post his message in the hope of starting a revolution and not discussing it directly with the mods is just another example of his pure arrogance. It's everybody else that's the problem except the people that agree with him. Can you not see how selfishly he restrained himself from replying to people that disagree with him? I'm sure he deserves a medal for that.

Take away his tag, change his username he'll still have the same problems.
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
7,160
23,947
765
‘The problem is the other side!’

There it is. Every time. Anyone with this mode of thinking absolves themselves of all sins, projects them on what they perceive as the other team, and will continue pulling everything down, because everything is contextualized to them as a holy war.

It’s the same for the people who troll VFX and his ilk.

The only way to meaningfully move on, is for one of you to grow up and do better.
 

CatLady

Gold Member
Jun 12, 2018
2,974
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So VFXVeteran VFXVeteran got in touch with me and asked if I could post this on behalf of him.
I agree with petty much everything you said, VFXVeteran VFXVeteran said with the exception of this comment regarding our Mods; "Perhaps because they don’t ‘give a fuck".

I think they care very much and bust their asses trying to put out a gazillion fires every day. They are overworked and underappreciated. They can't read through every single thread and see everything that's going on in those threads. Gaming isn't the only forum on GAF. I don't read or post much in Politcs anymore because the state of the world today is too damn depressing, but I used to spend a lot of time there and it was just as contentious as the Gaming side. They have to police that snakepit too.

Sony fans make up a LARGE majority of members here and within that group there seems to be a fairly large group of hardcore, thin-skinned warriors that lose their shit if they feel Sony, PlayStation or PS games have been slighted or criticized. Look at what happened with John from Digital Foundry or Gavin Stevens Gavin Stevens , look at ANY thread that has a DF video it's instantly filled with accusations of being DF paid by MS, Xbox Discord, MS shills, biased etc.there is one today on the Series S and half the posts are bitching about DF. Look at the Nect Gen Spec thread, they love to dogpile in there and report SPAM in there although I doubt there is anyone but the Sony clique left in that thread anymore.

But here's the thing, when the Mods constantly get tons reports from a bunch of Sony people it makes it appear that that the one being reported is the problem. I am quite sure they don't have time to read back through several pages of posts to see everything that's was said. Something I've noticed lately is that a lot of the worst offenders have been getting warnings, thread bans, temp bans and even permanent bans. Also it seems like most of the bans for fans of other platforms have been true console warriors that truly earned their bans.

Another problem I see for our Mods is we are getting a big influx of new members as we get closer to launch and that's a great thing but it seems like an awful lot of the Neos on both the Xbox and the PS side come in super aggressive and console warring right off the bat. I'm guessing that neither EviLore EviLore nor our Mods want to turn away new members, but I'm sure it takes extra work behind the scenes i.e. warnings, thread bans etc. to get them with the program.

So here are my suggestions for you:
1. Avoid the Next gen spec thread like Covid-19
2. Stay away from contentious Sony topics
3. Stick to Xbox, Nintendo, PCMR and non-Sony exclusive game threads
4. You made a quality thread about what qualifies as Next Gen Graphics - Make a new one comparing XsX and PC.only, Us Xbots aren't dumb enough to think the XsX will beat a high end PC especially with the new nvidia cards and we won't get offended.
5. Just don't engage with the worst of the Sony fan boys. If they attack you report them, but don't waste you time arguing or even responding to them
6. Don't quit GAF, you have a lot of knowledge, experience and valuable insight and there are plenty of us that appreciate it.
 

DonJuanSchlong

Spice Spice Baby
Jul 15, 2020
882
2,063
590
"The biggest problem with this site are the Sony guys and their arrogance." - hey good thing you passed on this message, clearly he hasn't learned much of anything and hasn't done much self-reflection, maybe now the mods can extend his ban? lol
Now I will say, the majority of the trollers are from the Sony camp. No one can dispute that. I have no place in this war, as I don't care for consoles. But all the power to them. We all know you prefer Sony, which is no problem. But you probably don't realize the bias you have because of that.


With that being said, yeah he could tone down his posts, but you gotta admit, no one personally attacks him, except that one side. Try to take your bias out the equation, and put yourself in his shoes. (This is my personal opinion, nothing to do with him.) He has more knowledge than most of us when it comes to rendering. So many people say PC can't do this or that, yet Nvidia killed all that with 30XX series. Yet still people troll him and attack him, while he responds with facts and challenges people to dispute him. Once people realize they can't challenge him, they resort to personal attacks on him. That's not ok. The moment he says, he can't wait to see the effects PC will have over ps5 in Kena, he gets mass reported.

What about the people who personally attack him? Why aren't they told to back off, and respond with factual data to back up their claims instead? Now I'm not saying he's right in the way he approaches things, but can you not see how it can seem one sided? Maybe because of his tag. But you can't expect a professional to roll with the punches 24/7 and not get overwhelmed. And based on his post to get banned, it doesn't constitute a ban, in my opinion at least. Maybe thread ban, but not site ban.


I don't know how history with the mods, as he only passed the message along to me. So there could be more, but from the outside in, it does seem a bit strange. But when you have everyone in a bandwagon, who can't dispute his claims, of course they are going to be salty and mass report him.
 

-Arcadia-

Gold Member
Aug 20, 2019
7,160
23,947
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‘But Sony Gaf!’

(Facepalm) It just goes on and on.

People who misbehave are moderated here. Period. Misbehavior isn’t limited to a single creed. Period.

People need to get their own houses in order, before they criticize others.

But at this point, I might as well be talking into a gale force hurricane.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Jun 26, 2007
42,674
12,725
1,770
Best Coast
So VFXVeteran VFXVeteran got in touch with me and asked if I could post this on behalf of him.
I hope he took this time to cool off and gain some self-introspec..... nope.

The biggest problem with this site are the Sony guys and their arrogance.
Quit crying about being a victim of Sony fanboys and get your own shit in order. We all seem to agree in this thread that Sony fanboyism is a problem, and many of us combat this very phenomenon, yet you are the only one that's banned. Hmm I wonder why that is?

People often tell me that I need to ignore them or be nice, but I’ve tried being nice and it got me nowhere.
I don't believe you tried as hard as you think you did.

If I argue back with them, I’m banned because the mods want me to continue to act professional
You can argue back while being professional. It's quite easy. These are not mutually exclusive options. Here's an additional hint: respond politely and proportionately. Never instigate or escalate.

It's really not that hard. The mods here have their hands full trying to put a damper on the idiots. Do you really think that behaving the same as the idiots is going to make the mods' jobs any easier or endear them to your cause? Hardly. You're letting your childish impulses get in the way of your common sense. If trying to live up to the expectations of a vetted professional is too hard, then maybe at least try to live up to the expectations of a grown-ass man first and foremost.
 
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tryDEATH

Member
Nov 3, 2017
773
1,196
395
So here are my suggestions for you:
1. Avoid the Next gen spec thread like Covid-19
2. Stay away from contentious Sony topics
3. Stick to Xbox, Nintendo, PCMR and non-Sony exclusive game threads
4. You made a quality thread about what qualifies as Next Gen Graphics - Make a new one comparing XsX and PC.only, Us Xbots aren't dumb enough to think the XsX will beat a high end PC especially with the new nvidia cards and we won't get offended.
5. Just don't engage with the worst of the Sony fan boys. If they attack you report them, but don't waste you time arguing or even responding to them
6. Don't quit GAF, you have a lot of knowledge, experience and valuable insight and there are plenty of us that appreciate it.
You can follow all those steps and still get into it with Sony fans, because they will go out of their way and go into Xbox/PC centric threads and kick things off. At this point with what you are suggesting a subset of the user base basically has to tip toe around the forum while the other is free to go about like a bull in a china shop. Just the other day a user got a 4 day ban only to get it lifted the same day.
 

Happosai

Member
May 13, 2020
1,071
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400
32
South Central, Mexico
myanimelist.net
‘But Sony Gaf!’

(Facepalm) It just goes on and on.

People who misbehave are moderated here. Period. Misbehavior isn’t limited to a single creed. Period.

People need to get their own houses in order, before they criticize others.

But at this point, I might as well be talking into a gale force hurricane.
With the whole console war, it's funny how both (Sony fans / Xbox fans) think that GAF is favoring one over the other. We've seen people come in here writing that Sony is preferred and the Sony fanboys go unpunished. Well, I remember about a month ago some guy who was a Sony...guy...was complaining after a ban and saying that GAF was favoring Xbox fans. So which is it? Neither. Besides that, I don't see many coming in to complain that Nintendo fans are mistreated. They're game consoles and I just don't get it. Even if these guys were putting shares into Sony or MS stocks...it still doesn't make a difference. By the way, I've only been here since May...how many years has this war been going on?