Support NeoGAF

[moolamb]

Man the mods have had a pretty hard lot of it in the past few days. I for one don't give a shit whatever scandal happened. A community by definition is about people, and we are still the same people posting here - respectful of all and lovers of games.

Also, I don't think there's a problem with a 'neogaf split' - I mean this is not an exclusive membership. Just go be yourself as a member of both forums.

 

[RinsFury]

Honestly this is the thing that is giving me hope, that a lot of them HAVE been taken care of. It doesn't change the fact that there are certainly these types here.

Gators, white supremacists, nazis, islamophobes, anti-LGTBQ...take your pick, they have always been here. You can't grow a community to this size without a host of deplorables making it in as well. This isn't the first time this ugly side has revealed itself either, we all saw what happened when Trump was elected, it just wasn't to this scale. The best you can hope for is a strict moderation policy against hate that confines them to the darkness 99% of the time.

 

[Shabutaro]

And those disgruntled people are idiots.

The moderation problem is mainly an unevenness in moderating which allowed some posters enough slack to run rampant with passive-aggressive insults, sarcastic strawmanning which turned into thread derailment, general shitposting and the like, which increased the hostility from time-to-time in threads where disagreements arose amid otherwise civil discourse.

The "speak your mind" narrative is largely, not entirely, but largely nonsense.

In other words, the problem wasn't overzealously banning so-called "dissent" (i.e., "gays aren't people, that's just my opinion!"); the problem was failing to ban those contributing to hostility for actual or perceived dissent or variation from the consensus (i.e., parachuting into a thread to dial up pre-written meme responses to things not yet said, after determining what posters were on what side and figuring out enemies from the supposed battle lines).

The solution implemented here -- disabling that entire half of the forum -- is awful, and appears to be little more than a deflection.

This.
And I think for the time being shutting down OT is a good idea. It'd be so much harder to moderate, and while people are basically just burning their accounts its easier to do it in one place. If this is more than a couple weeks at most its a mess though. There was a lot of great content in OT. They really need to establish better rules, and moderate the uninspired and angry better. Hopefully it's soon. The sooner we can get back to the frame of our old forum, the sooner we can asses the true damage.

 

[ryseing]

It does sound ridiculous, which is why I was saying they can miss me with that bullshit.

Sorry. Dunno who's being serious right now and who's being mean.

 

[APF]

The *actual* problem with GAF, from a "person who is a professional in the real-world and might be considering whether or not to participate in the community w/o anonymity in order to continue to make it a unique space in gaming" is not the "suppression of dissent," it's the toxicity outside of political discussions: shitting on journalists, analysts, developers, publishers, other gamers, etc. No one other than assholes care if there's an effort to make a community welcoming to women or other under-represented minorities, LGBT folks, ppl from other countries etc. Normal people care if there's wild speculation and rumor, defamation, aggressive brigading that doesn't foster constructive criticism, etc. THIS is what the general complaint from devs etc has been, not "oh I see a post normalizing same-sex relationships sob sob," or "oh no someone is calling-out antisemitism " The idea that "politics" or creating a sane spot for the underrepresented is at fault for [xyz] is the absurdist gobbledygook of literally the worst people on the internet playing you in order to gin-up chaos and infighting.

Sorry. Dunno who's being serious right now and who's being mean.

NP, I've been here since 2005 and miscommunications on all sides have happened in just about every thread I've posted in since that time.

 

[Shabutaro]

No you just come off like a joke poster so I'm having trouble taking anything you say at all seriously. I'll leave it at that.

Seriously, have you read any of my posts? I'm not some jokester, and I'm not some secret troll. This is the problem, why assume the worst in me and not engage? There's not really anything that I'm saying that's remotely tricky or bad. I would love to clarify if you wanted me to. Where's the joke?

I kinda get what Shabutaro is saying. It's sort of like how everyone assumes all POC are some unified community when that isn't the case at all. But the manner in which phil-x voiced his concerns wasn't constructive. Why not propose separate threads be made for gay men and gay women instead of forcing the lesbians out of the main thread? The LGBT experience being centered around gay cis men is a problem and that would have reinforced it.

Thanks.
But he really didn't say that. Not in this thread at least. He just said separate communities. But everyone is hardwired for the worst and reacts so quickly these days. Maybe we'll all calm down soon? But in the meantime we need to call out aggressive posters when they pop up, even if we fundamentally agree with them, and protect the quality posters with whom we don't.
Thanks for making this thread btw

 

[BeauRoger]

I kinda get what Shabutaro is saying. It's sort of like how everyone assumes all POC are some unified community when that isn't the case at all. But the manner in which phil-x voiced his concerns wasn't constructive. Why not propose separate threads be made for gay men and gay women instead of forcing the lesbians out of the main thread? The LGBT experience being centered around gay cis men is a problem and that would have reinforced it.

I think the point here is that if some posters had it their way, the conversation never would have progressed to the point where you could say that you understood his position, and understood that its not necessarily malicious. Oftentimes in OT, the threshold for genuine engagement with certain subsets of posters was so high that you basically had to mirror the accepted opinion to even begin having a meaningful exchange. Anything below the threshold, even if it was moderate or coming from a benign place, often got dogpiled with insults and reductive answers.

Even with the phil-x post, which i agree was poorly worded and inadequately explained, we got somewhere more interesting, because the conversation kept going. Im not saying that every post or viewpoint deserves a charitble viewing, of course not, some are quite easy quickly dismiss or disprove, but the threshold for that has been so high that even normal progressive posters have been branded as alt-right/GG etc by certain individuals here.

 

[BeauRoger]

No you just come off like a joke poster so I'm having trouble taking anything you say at all seriously. I'll leave it at that.

Its not suprisning that you go back to shitposting the second you realize you can no longer defend your position in good faith. Fairly typical of the neogaf subset that mainly argued by shouting down any dissent.

 

[gtj1092]

Again, exhibit A representing one of gaf's major problems.

Apparently criticizing one extreme automatically means full endorsement of the other extreme. Good job.

Exhibit B partial quoting.

Clearly one extreme bothers you more than the other. Before it posted there were plenty of post on the other extreme but only one side prompted you to post.

 

[Shabutaro]

Its not suprisning that you go back to shitposting the second you realize you can no longer defend your position in good faith. Fairly typical of the neogaf subset that mainly argued by shouting down any dissent.

ugh thx. Just hoping that type gets filtered out somehow.

I think the point here is that if some posters had it their way, the conversation never would have progressed to the point where you could say that you understood his position, and understood that its not necessarily malicious. Oftentimes in OT, the threshold for genuine engagement with certain subsets of posters was so high that you basically had to mirror the accepted opinion to even begin having a meaningful exchange. Anything below the threshold, even if it was moderate or coming from a benign place, often got dogpiled with insults and reductive answers.

Even with the phil-x post, which i agree was poorly worded and inadequately explained, we got somewhere more interesting, because the conversation kept going. Im not saying that every post or viewpoint deserves a charitble viewing, of course not, some are quite easy quickly dismiss or disprove, but the threshold for that has been so high that even normal progressive posters have been branded as alt-right/GG etc by certain individuals here.

This.
And there's so many disclaimers you have to type before you post a semi controversial opinion. "Now, I'm x, y, z and voted for _____ but..." and then pray you make it out ok lol

The *actual* problem with GAF.

I can get behind that. But I do feel like OT and Gaming were two equal but different beasts though. If Gaming made gaf hated externally, OT crippled it internally. We just didn't bother to get rid of shitty posters cause, "hey, at least they're not gators". And I think letting the shitty posters fester trickled into the gaming side

 

[kitchenmotors]

Make NeoGAY Great Again

We will, once ResetEra opens up.

 

[rackham]

We will, once ResetEra opens up.

Wasn't it supposed to open up today?

 

[JustenP88]

Does anyone else think it's kinda silly to wish for polite, measured, rational political discourse on a western-centric videogame forum in the Year of our Lord 2017?

It seems strange to expect or even strive for that given the state of political discourse in actual real life. Like, do the Protectors of Discourse expect people to be bombarded by real shit in the real world all day then come here and wait for the conversation to run its course when people say vaguely homophobic/racist things or co-opt the coded language of people who often say homophobic/racist things in other gaming communities? "Be vaguely hateful then cry about them oppressing your views" is like day one shit at fascism school.

 

[Majukun]

We will, once ResetEra opens up.

since at the start it's gonna be under invite only,i doubt it will be an adequate substitute to gaf anytime soon

 

[BeauRoger]

Does anyone else think it's kinda silly to wish for polite, measured, rational political discourse on a western-centric videogame forum in the Year of our Lord 2017?

It seems strange to expect or even strive for that given the state of political discourse in actual real life. Like, do the Protectors of Discourse expect people to be bombarded by real shit in the real world all day then come here and wait for the conversation to run its course when people say vaguely homophobic/racist things or co-opt the coded language of people who often say homophobic/racist things in other gaming communities? "Be vaguely hateful then cry about them oppressing your views" is like day one shit at fascism school.

I dont get how you can be baffled by common rationalty, the act of viewing it as a standard or at least to invoke it in discussions. I dont think anybody expects some online utopia, but when a person points out, quite logically, that the assumptions you make about that person dont follow from that persons original statement, the answer shouldnt be "Well, you are just expecting too much of me."

 

[Ombra]

since at the start it's gonna be under invite only,i doubt it will be an adequate substitute to gaf anytime soon

Yeah that level of wishful thinking is only gonna disappoint a lot of high horse riders.

 

[Freiya]

Yeah, but the problem isnt respecting minorities/lgbt

You have to be blind or deaf to not acknowledge Neogaf has a clear problem when it comes to being an echo chamber, over-empowered mods, and what can only be described as a toxic environment for dissenting opinions. Even ones with good intentions. Homophobic and racist individuals should be banned outright, but neo gaf had an environment where I could have been banned for defending Evilore. (not that I am, just an example).

This 100%

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

Does anyone else think it's kinda silly to wish for polite, measured, rational political discourse on a western-centric videogame forum in the Year of our Lord 2017?

It seems strange to expect or even strive for that given the state of political discourse in actual real life. Like, do the Protectors of Discourse expect people to be bombarded by real shit in the real world all day then come here and wait for the conversation to run its course when people say vaguely homophobic/racist things or co-opt the coded language of people who often say homophobic/racist things in other gaming communities? "Be vaguely hateful then cry about them oppressing your views" is like day one shit at fascism school.

I think this is kinda thing is what people get fed up with and what ruined GAF debate: in the same way that some people rightly get pissed at pejoratives like SJW, others, who have long-valued discourse and protected traditional liberal values are today slammed for fence sitting or free speech advocacy as though being partisan and censorious were somehow worthwhile life goals.

The tone always comes off as 'if you're not with us, you're against us', which to me, is what typifies SJWs - not thier dedication to undoubtedly worthwhile causes but the manner by which they advance them: it shouldn't need repeating with 20th Century still ringing in our ears, but 'the road to damnation is paved with good intentions'.

 

[kitchenmotors]

since at the start it's gonna be under invite only,i doubt it will be an adequate substitute to gaf anytime soon

Tons of GaF Discord’s have communities lined up, including our Queer/Letters GAF one. We have our In. We’ve vetted our people.

 

[Shabutaro]

Does anyone else think it's kinda silly to wish for polite, measured, rational political discourse on a western-centric videogame forum in the Year of our Lord 2017?

It seems strange to expect or even strive for that given the state of political discourse in actual real life. Like, do the Protectors of Discourse expect people to be bombarded by real shit in the real world all day then come here and wait for the conversation to run its course when people say vaguely homophobic/racist things or co-opt the coded language of people who often say homophobic/racist things in other gaming communities? "Be vaguely hateful then cry about them oppressing your views" is like day one shit at fascism school.

No.
And this post would be much cuter if you weren't just wrongly spewing rage a page back. I have no problem being civil. If I disagree I discuss, not tell someone to "shove it up their ass". If something is vaguely racist, then investigate. People here act like they were all born woke. If someone says something vaguely racist ask, challenge, discuss. They might not have "co-opted" anything. Explain it to them, its the lowest of burdens for being a claimed progressive. Its just a few more keystrokes. If you're too tired, report them and have someone else do it. But expecting us to all be ok with you attacking people because you're too tired from your work day isn't gonna cut it. This is a place for discussion and if you can't do it civilly then there's no point in participating.
You were wrong, got called out, and now blaming people for "co-opting" fascist tactics. As if its their fault you overreacted. Its your fault for assuming the worst of everyone who you disagree with.

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

No.
And this post would be much cuter if you weren't just wrongly spewing rage a page back. I have no problem being civil. If I disagree I discuss, not tell someone to "shove it up their ass". If something is vaguely racist, then investigate. People here act like they were all born woke. If someone says something vaguely racist ask, challenge, discuss. They might not have "co-opted" anything. Explain it to them, its the lowest of burdens for being a claimed progressive. Its just a few more keystrokes. If you're too tired, report them and have someone else do it. But expecting us to all be ok with you attacking people because you're too tired from your work day isn't gonna cut it. This is a place for discussion and if you can't do it civilly then there's no point in participating.
You were wrong, got called out, and now blaming people for "co-opting" fascist tactics. As if its their fault you overreacted. Its your fault for assuming the worst of everyone who you disagree with.

Amen to this...

 

[Acerac]

Running wall of shame of the type of users who 'respect' minorities and women...


Some have been banned, some not. But it's clear there is definitely an element here that do not want such conversations as talk of equality for LGBT.

I believe such talk with be expressly against the rules of the new OT. After all, such things cause conflict and the rules are trying to minimize unnecessary difficulties for the moderation team.

 

[Majukun]

Tons of GaF Discord’s have communities lined up, including our Queer/Letters GAF one. We have our In. We’ve vetted our people.

still,the new forum need members and fast if it aims to be an alternative to gaf,it's still the users that make the content in a forum..the fact that the vetting process is passing through the discords has already left tons of people outside

 

[Subpar Spatula]

still,the new forum need members and fast if it aims to be an alternative to gaf,it's still the users that make the content in a forum..the fact that the vetting process is passing through the discords has already left tons of people outside

i believe all the OT creators and general info aggregates have jumped ship. i think they have that part covered. i think they'll be fine unless they get zero growth which is unliking because the people who fostered the community is now gone and that appeal will work in their favor.

 

[TAJ]

I once got a month-long ban from a mod (Ghaleon, no idea if he's still here) who was a buddy of bobbyroberts, strictly because he was being a condescending ass keeping with his modus operandi, and I called him out on it. I was banned for being "needlessly condescending. I can't post the thread because OT is gone, something Star Wars film related though. But yeah. I'll play my tiny violin for that guy.

I got into it with Bobby Roberts so bad that he PM'd me to ask me if I really hate him. (I don't.) I never got banned for anything I said to him.
I also complained about Rey's force ability arc and may have called her a Mary Sue, but I also didn't use MRA talking points to do it. No ban.

 

[HStallion]

No.
And this post would be much cuter if you weren't just wrongly spewing rage a page back. I have no problem being civil. If I disagree I discuss, not tell someone to "shove it up their ass". If something is vaguely racist, then investigate. People here act like they were all born woke. If someone says something vaguely racist ask, challenge, discuss. They might not have "co-opted" anything. Explain it to them, its the lowest of burdens for being a claimed progressive. Its just a few more keystrokes. If you're too tired, report them and have someone else do it. But expecting us to all be ok with you attacking people because you're too tired from your work day isn't gonna cut it. This is a place for discussion and if you can't do it civilly then there's no point in participating.
You were wrong, got called out, and now blaming people for "co-opting" fascist tactics. As if its their fault you overreacted. Its your fault for assuming the worst of everyone who you disagree with.

Its not anyones job to go out of there way to see if someone really isn't racist. Most racists are racist for a variety of reasons and me peaking into their mentality is not going to change that nor do I feel like I should bother with what is often a dead end road that just has me dealing with ugly rhetoric and ugly people. If you're going to drop racist talking points or those that align you with ugly groups its up to you to figure it out and convince others you're actually worth talking to.

I will say I was getting way too heated earlier and that's on me but the amount of bull shit coming out this forum in less than a day is awe inspiring in the worst kinds of ways.

 

[Neece]

Oh the new forum is going to be invite only? That sucks as I doubt anyone will invite me. I'm not on discord or whatever.

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

Oh the new forum is going to be invite only? That sucks as I doubt anyone will invite me. I'm not on discord or whatever.

Only for a short period. It will become public eventually. Consider it like a testing step where you ramp up traffic as you go. It's a fairly normal procedure to be honest just it's forward facing as it's community based.

 

[Majukun]

i believe all the OT creators and general info aggregates have jumped ship. i think they have that part covered. i think they'll be fine unless they get zero growth which is unliking because the people who fostered the community is now gone and that appeal will work in their favor.

don't know how many jumped ship really, and i'm curious to see how both this and that forum will develop with time..i'm just saying that one of gaf strenght was/is numbers,and putting an even harder wall to overcome to enter than gaf even had can hinder the growth

of course it depends on how fast the whole thing will evolve,and how much time until the average joe, myself included, will be able to apply for membership.

 

[APF]

ugh thx. Just hoping that type gets filtered out somehow.
We just didn't bother to get rid of shitty posters cause, "hey, at least they're not gators".

The answer though is not to be nicer to "gators" or ignore trolls along those lines--however that's the answer I've been hearing in these threads, sighs of relief that finally they can be shitty without consequence or reprisal.

 

[HStallion]

don't know how many jumped ship really, and i'm curious to see how both this and that forum will develop with time..i'm just saying that one of gaf strenght was/is numbers,and putting an even harder wall to overcome to enter than gaf even had can hinder the growth

of course it depends on how fast the whole thing will evolve,and how much time until the average joe, myself included, will be able to apply for membership.

Seeing as I'm apart of several of the discords, yeah most of them left and quick

 

[Angelus Errare]

Man, I spent a lot of time being mad in politics threads in OT on the wrong side of the echo chamber last year and I never caught a ban for it. I chiseled away at a fair amount of my remaining sanity and grew an urge to shit on liberals from the left, but never ran into any actual push back from mods, even when they were the ones I was arguing with. Can't really relate to anyone who falls anywhere other than "authoritarian right" on the political spectrum who thinks GAF is overbearing in its moderation to the point where it's a genuine issue for the community. Moderation seems to take a hardline stance against problematic takes on issues of social justice and that's a problem... Why?

We have actual examples of what gaming communities with lax moderation are like. For those among us who want that for GAF: wtf are you here for? Those places exist!



I wouldn't begrudge the mods for banning me for being uncouth. That's their prerogative and I'm loose with it because there's not much point in caring at the moment. But I'm not gonna feel bad for reacting callously to a user who used several posts to whine about PC hiveminds (I'm comfortable reading between the lines on that shit) only to follow it up with "I just thought it'd be cool to separate the gays and lesbians." Based on what I've seen from the gaming community at-large, I've got no interest in the "discourse" people like that want to bring in out of the woodwork while this place is on fire.

If you're "tired of the BLM bullshit"

If you're "tired of the climate change bullshit"

If you're "tired of the virtue signalling"

If you're "tired of all the Trump shit"

There are communities for you already. Go to them.

word

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Tons of GaF Discord’s have communities lined up, including our Queer/Letters GAF one. We have our In. We’ve vetted our people.

I was invited like 5 times to 2 different gaf discords and every time the invitation expired, so now I'm closed out because I'm in no Gaf discord?

 

[JustenP88]

I dont get how you can be baffled by common rationalty, the act of viewing it as a standard or at least to invoke it in discussions. I dont think anybody expects some online utopia, but when a person points out, quite logically, that the assumptions you make about that person dont follow from that persons original statement, the answer shouldnt be "Well, you are just expecting too much of me."

I'm not necessarily talking about myself or this thread in a vacuum. Also, I don't think I was too far off the mark rehil. I'm cool with how that went down.

I just don't think there's anything inherently rational about the idea that GAF has been too much of an echo chamber when it comes to the issues mentioned in this thread's title. This is a gaming forum and gaming has proven to be quite a magnet for vaguely shitty people.

I can sympathize with those who take issue with profane insulting shitposts (like mine. I'd expect to be banned for that under normal GAF circumstances). I just disagree with the idea that people who want to cultivate the sort of inclusion the op of this thread alludes to should hesitate in calling people out. When someone uses the same buzz phrases assholes in this hobby always use to excuse themselves or explain that "it's actually the feminists or whatever that are shitty" they should be called out.

Pretty much every forum is an echo chamber to a certain extent. Honestly, with regard to the issues at hand, I've never thought of this forum (moderators and regular posters) as particularly egregious as far as unwarranted censorship goes. NeoGAF has a niche and I don't see why its niche is particularly problematic.

No.
And this post would be much cuter if you weren't just wrongly spewing rage a page back. I have no problem being civil. If I disagree I discuss, not tell someone to "shove it up their ass". If something is vaguely racist, then investigate. People here act like they were all born woke. If someone says something vaguely racist ask, challenge, discuss. They might not have "co-opted" anything. Explain it to them, its the lowest of burdens for being a claimed progressive. Its just a few more keystrokes. If you're too tired, report them and have someone else do it. But expecting us to all be ok with you attacking people because you're too tired from your work day isn't gonna cut it. This is a place for discussion and if you can't do it civilly then there's no point in participating.
You were wrong, got called out, and now blaming people for "co-opting" fascist tactics. As if its their fault you overreacted. Its your fault for assuming the worst of everyone who you disagree with.

Ugh. Above, I guess. I'm too slow.

You can be the dude doing the "ask, challenge, discuss" bit with vaguely racist gamers in the forums. You can be the dude in the chat online in Overwatch or whatever calmly telling everyone to stop using all those slurs while they respond by shouting about SJWs and political correctness. Then you can be the dude who comes back here and gets mad at the people who get mad at the people who shout about SJWs and political correctness.

I'll probably just keep being the dude I was a couple pages ago, tbh. You can be the dude that rides by on the tall horse and slaps me on the back of the head. Or if you're tired from all that other shit, you can report me and see if anyone else will do it.

 

[KojiKnight]

I believe such talk with be expressly against the rules of the new OT. After all, such things cause conflict and the rules are trying to minimize unnecessary difficulties for the moderation team.

If the moderation team has a problem, they can get in contact with me by whatever means they feel is necessary. I don't need any advice on the rules (I've read them) unless it's by them. Thank you for your concern though.

 

[hertog]

Of course that kind of respect is awesome.
What wasn't awesome was the whole "ow look at me, I even care MORE about minorities than you, aren't I the fucking best." Or the "All white males should feel guilty about the state of the world. If you don't agree you are a fucking idiot."

Hopefully this place will return as a better forum with room for discussion instead of an annoying echo-chamber.

 

[TAJ]

I was invited like 5 times to 2 different gaf discords and every time the invitation expired, so now I'm closed out because I'm in no Gaf discord?

Why do you even want a membership? You seem pretty happy that they're gone.

 

[PBY]

I don't feel respected right now.

 

[Shabutaro]

Its not anyones job to go out of there way to see if someone really isn't racist. Most racists are racist for a variety of reasons and me peaking into their mentality is not going to change that nor do I feel like I should bother with what is often a dead end road that just has me dealing with ugly rhetoric and ugly people. If you're going to drop racist talking points or those that align you with ugly groups its up to you to figure it out and convince others you're actually worth talking to.

I will say I was getting way too heated earlier and that's on me but the amount of bull shit coming out this forum in less than a day is awe inspiring in the worst kinds of ways.

Ah you're back, I'm not too tricky for ya?
It's not about engaging racists. He said, if someone says something vaguely racist how can i be expected not to go off? If someone is posting in YOUR community something that you feel is vaguely off, you sure as fuck have to engage civilly. You don't get to claim to be progressive and then say it's not your job to educate the marginally racist. If you don't do it, who will? Those are the people to talk to.
How long have you been the cutting edge of PC progress? I feel like I'm pretty damn "woke" and I'm still learning. That includes me saying/believing/advocating for things that aren't always on the right side, hearing the argument and changing my stance.
There's a type of poster that acts like they're talking to alt right people here. Bigots, and I say this with confidence, are the minority on neogaf. So don't treat every wrong, shitty or offensive opinion like its coming from a nazi. People can learn. And its not by assuming everything everyone says is coming from a place of hate.

 

[lutheran]

I respect all human beings of both genders and all races. However I don't believe in automatically hanging someone because someone else accused them of something awful. We are not cops or judges, we play games and come here to have hopefully intelligent conversation on a variety of subjects. On this sites owner, I know what he said he did in the past. That doesn't automatically make him a serial pervert. We weren't at either of these events. I have seen plenty of guys grab girls asses in the past, girls who they knew but weren't dating. Girls they were just flirting with. I have seen girls grab guys by the crotch, guys who they barely knew. At bars mostly or house parties. Young people make mistakes, drink to much and don't think, brag too much or even lie when bragging to make themselves look cool. Without more context or being there it is pretty damn hard to automatically call someone abusive. I tend to believe a girl when she says she was sexually harassed. But I would be lying if I said no way would any girl ever lie or stretch the truth about an encounter they had with another person. You can't say it never happens, it does happen which is why we leave these things to the courts and try to keep open minds. Imagine if someone from your past remembered something differently then you did and accused you of behaving poorly when both of you were drinking. I have seen people completely get things totally wrong a million times after a few drinks. Lets just be kind to each other and limit the political talk and lets stop accusing people of stuff we have no solid proof of. The political climate in this country is hard to deal with at times, and I blame both sides. Both sides are power hungry and will go to any lengths and say anything they think will stick to get people to think and vote the way they want you to vote. Leave that talk out of game forums. Just my opinion is all. I do agree with the op, thinking it is OK to abuse ANYONE is totally unwelcome here or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[Acerac]

If the moderation team has a problem, they can get in contact with me by whatever means they feel is necessary. I don't need any advice on the rules (I've read them) unless it's by them. Thank you for your concern though.

I do hope you are right. The policies as they were previously laid out feel rather draconian, and I would hate for this site to lose any well meaning members.

 

[Shabutaro]

The answer though is not to be nicer to "gators" or ignore trolls along those lines--however that's the answer I've been hearing in these threads, sighs of relief that finally they can be shitty without consequence or reprisal.

I definitely don't have any sympathy for gators, and the trolls should be banned. I just feel like moderation in the past has done a good job as quelling the alt right bubbling that could very well have happened. Hopefully that continues. But I also feel we skipped over people who are just genuinely angry, trolly posters who just so happened to be left leaning enough. I feel like reading through an OT thread was like sifting through sand this past year. There was just so much nothing, and it all always looked the same. The bar was just lowered.
imo we need to hold posters who insult people to the same standards we do on the other side. Left wing trolls aren't as personally offensive to people (which is nice?) but they hamper conversation and community just as much.
My sigh of relied is that maybe we can have a political discussion in the future without the angry nothing posts clogging up the conversation.We're mostly all on the same side, and if you cut ALL the trolls out, itd just be much easier.

 

[HStallion]

Ah you're back, I'm not too tricky for ya?
It's not about engaging racists. He said, if someone says something vaguely racist how can i be expected not to go off? If someone is posting in YOUR community something that you feel is vaguely off, you sure as fuck have to engage civilly. You don't get to claim to be progressive and then say it's not your job to educate the marginally racist. If you don't do it, who will? Those are the people to talk to.
How long have you been the cutting edge of PC progress? I feel like I'm pretty damn "woke" and I'm still learning. That includes me saying/believing/advocating for things that aren't always on the right side, hearing the argument and changing my stance.
There's a type of poster that acts like they're talking to alt right people here. Bigots, and I say this with confidence, are the minority on neogaf. So don't treat every wrong, shitty or offensive opinion like its coming from a nazi. People can learn. And its not by assuming everything everyone says is coming from a place of hate.

Vaguely racist is racist enough for me to not really concern myself with dealing with someone. I do it at work, I do it with people I meet randomly at social outings and so on. I don't have the time or mental fortitude to put up with those types of people whether they're just a saint making a mistake or a shit bird who happens to be a nice guy. If they really ant to show me different they can come up to me and put the effort in to show they aren't vaguely racist and I still might not give them the time of day because really, I don't have time for the racism, even vaguely, from strangers.

The reason people on this board especially don't care for that shit is because we deal with concern trolls and the like ad naseum. Shit is tiring and I don't have the time of day to waste reaching out to someone who might be vaguely racist but misinformed.

 

[KojiKnight]

I do hope you are right. The policies as they were previously laid out feel rather draconian, and I would hate for this site to lose any well meaning members.

I'm at the point where I'm here to stay as long as I can, but I won't be quite on the things that bother me. Hopefully the mods will agree that there is a certain element that needs to be addressed. Worst case scenario they decide that I'm causing more problems than I'm worth. If that comes to pass, it is what it is. I haven't been banned yet for my opinions so I'm not super worried. I mostly know where to draw the line or at least I hope so.

But seriously, I do appreciate your concern.

 

[Acerac]

I'm at the point where I'm here to stay as long as I can, but I won't be quite on the things that bother me. Hopefully the mods will agree that there is a certain element that needs to be addressed. Worst case scenario they decide that I'm causing more problems than I'm worth. If that comes to pass, it is what it is. I haven't been banned yet for my opinions so I'm not super worried. I mostly know where to draw the line or at least I hope so.

But seriously, I do appreciate your concern.

Cheers. Here's hoping that this new era of GAF doesn't lead to many unfortunate bans.

While I understand the need for peace in a troubled time, there is much value to be had in some of these discussions.

 

[APF]

Or, trolls are going to do what they always do in under-moderated online communities: slowly shift the Overton Window to the right because someone questioning your humanity is always going to be able to be more rhetorically-"polite" than you are when facing it. Communities without heavy moderation and actual side-taking are always shitty; trolls who have no personal stake other than a desire to cause chaos and infighting always win. "Both sides" is always nonsense. If I'm a moderate and try to meet an extremist in the middle, it means I become more polarized. "Let the community decide" just means nonstop shitposting. You gotta have good moderation, and you gotta have strongly-held positions as an organization, or else it just gets shittier over time. Again, the problem with GAF is not "thought police," the problem is the toxicity that you face in all large online communities. Refusing to take a side on things like gamergate is not going to help that, it's only going to make it worse.

 

[PBY]

Or, trolls are going to do what they always do in under-moderated online communities: slowly shift the Overton Window to the right because someone questioning your humanity is always going to be able to be more rhetorically-"polite" than you are when facing it. Communities without heavy moderation and actual side-taking are always shitty; trolls who have no personal stake other than a desire to cause chaos and infighting always win. "Both sides" is always nonsense. If I'm a moderate and try to meet an extremist in the middle, it means I become more polarized. "Let the community decide" just means nonstop shitposting. You gotta have good moderation, and you have to have strongly-held positions as an organization, or else it just gets shittier over time. Again, the problem with GAF is not "thought police," the problem is the toxicity that you face in all large online communities. Refusing to take a side on things like gamergate is not going to help that, it's only going to make it worse.

It's happened here in a span of 2 days.

 

[Shabutaro]

Ugh. Above, I guess. I'm too slow.

You can be the dude doing the "ask, challenge, discuss" bit with vaguely racist gamers in the forums. You can be the dude in the chat online in Overwatch or whatever calmly telling everyone to stop using all those slurs while they respond by shouting about SJWs and political correctness. Then you can be the dude who comes back here and gets mad at the people who get mad at the people who shout about SJWs and political correctness.

I'll probably just keep being the dude I was a couple pages ago, tbh. You can be the dude that rides by on the tall horse and slaps me on the back of the head. Or if you're tired from all that other shit, you can report me and see if anyone else will do it.

Well played.
And I'm probably gonna take a break for a while tbh. But its just a struggle because its not really an excuse imo. People can't be frustrated elsewhere and then just shit up the OT here. It's either you engage meaningfully or you just don't reply. GAF can't be the dumping ground for all of our frustration to the point we've stopped people on our side from talking. On an individual level I definitely get it tho.And there is a LOT of bullshit to get through. But we've just been bad at moderating the angrier side of the left and it really left a bitter taste

 

[HStallion]

Well played.
And I'm probably gonna take a break for a while tbh. But its just a struggle because its not really an excuse imo. People can't be frustrated elsewhere and then just shit up the OT here. It's either you engage meaningfully or you just don't reply. GAF can't be the dumping ground for all of our frustration to the point we've stopped people on our side from talking. On an individual level I definitely get it tho.And there is a LOT of bullshit to get through. But we've just been bad at moderating the angrier side of the left and it really left a bitter taste

The angry side of the left actually has things to be angry about. The entire black community has the entire history of America to be angry over. The Muslim American community has so much to be angry over with how they're treated and slandered by the very president of the US. The LGTBQ community under attack on several fronts, many of which once again from the American government and supported by the people who continue to vote for them. Not being angry on the left is a far more surprising thing if you ask me.

 

[Ombra]

The angry side of the left actually has things to be angry about. The entire black community has the entire history of America to be angry over. The Muslim American community has so much to be angry over with how they're treated and slandered by the very president of the US. The LGTBQ community under attack on several fronts, many of which once again from the American government and supported by the people who continue to vote for them. Not being angry on the left is a far more surprising thing if you ask me.

I hope you stick around you actually get it.