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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2013 edition - Top 100 results posted
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
UberTag
Member
Well, no RPGs like it aside from Persona 3.
Ranks 11-20
11) Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal (plus remakes) - 66 points
12) Final Fantasy 12 - 65
13) Mass Effect - 65
14) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - 64
15) Valkyria Chronicles - 64
16) Final Fantasy 10 - 64
17) Suikoden 2 - 62
18) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - 58
19) The Witcher 2 - 56
20) Demon's Souls - 54
11) Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal (plus remakes) - 66 points
12) Final Fantasy 12 - 65
13) Mass Effect - 65
14) Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic - 64
15) Valkyria Chronicles - 64
16) Final Fantasy 10 - 64
17) Suikoden 2 - 62
18) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - 58
19) The Witcher 2 - 56
20) Demon's Souls - 54
Earthpainting
Member
To those that are scared off by the social sim elements of Persona 4, I was too, but it turned out to be the most enjoyable and memorable part of the game for me. The whole high school angle might be off-putting, but it fits the theme of the series so incredibly well.
Well the many fake-out endings sure didn't help prevent it from dragging on either. I was ready to be done with the game after the last kidnapping, as the game was starting to wrap up, but it turned out there was still a solid 20 hours of game for me after it. It also didn't help that the resolution of the mystery and the "final villain" were pretty underwhelming.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
For comparison's sake, from last year...
The addition of the honourable mentions and the new scoring system truly made a difference. I imagine that point multipliers boosted the number of votes this time around. And there seemed to be more of an influx of votes this year for Japanese-developed RPGs than western-developed RPGs. At least, it seemed that way to me.
I do have to admit that I'm not especially fond of all of those FF games in the Top 10 this year because it lacks some sort of diversity. Perhaps their popularity may be linked to the series' 25th anniversary this year, but man that's a lot of games from one series in one bracket of the ranking. Last year's top 10 had more diversity and a better spread across franchises. It truly felt like an essentials list.
This is a much more diverse list than the top 10.
decoyplatypus
Member
I agree. I like Persona 4 a lot, but half as long a game would have gone twice as far with me.
It definitely says something about the game's appeal that it ranked so highly even though the first four hours are about as hands-off as you get outside of visual novels and MGS. I'm honestly surprised more people don't give up before the first real dungeon.
Felix Lighter
Member
All my picks, except for Alpha Protocol, made it in the top 20. I'm happy with that. I hope the recent Steam sales and the release of its mod tools give The Witcher 2 a resurgence next year!
Personally, I think that the Top 50/100 is the Essentials list (with some bias against old games) and that the order doesn't matter all that much. However, a lot of people like to see where their favourites land, so I'll continue to make the list ranked. The top 10 is Final Fantasy heavy, but overall the Top 50 has the same (or less) FF titles as it did in the other three years.
To me, as long as it's a game that I really enjoy, there's no such thing as a game being too long. I was actually kinda sad when my playthrough(s) of P4 was about to end. Still, to each his own.
Really nice to see the bolded place top 20, especially the 2nd Gen Pokemons and Valkyria Chronicles.
Skyrim not in the top 20? My faith has been restored.
My top 10 bolded. The only ones missing are morrowind and world of Warcraft.
Banners are up for 11-15.
If anyone has YT links for good OST songs or gameplay videos for those 5 games, please share! Keep linked songs spoiler-lite (watch out for track titles!) and gameplay vids restricted to the beginning hour or two of the game.
I will continue to fill everything in tonight. Hoping to have the top 50 done or near done by tomorrow night.
If anyone has YT links for good OST songs or gameplay videos for those 5 games, please share! Keep linked songs spoiler-lite (watch out for track titles!) and gameplay vids restricted to the beginning hour or two of the game.
I will continue to fill everything in tonight. Hoping to have the top 50 done or near done by tomorrow night.
Felix Lighter
Member
Here's a youtube playlist for the entire Mass Effect Soundtrack. I'll pull some out to highlight but the whole damn thing is so fucking good.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1D175807EEC47BB1
Main Theme
Saren
The Citadel
The Wards
Uncharted Worlds
Vigil
From the Wreckage
The End
M4 Part2
I selected my favorites and then paired them down again with bolded if that helps. M4 Part2 and Vigil are musts in my opinion.
I really liked Valkyria Chronicles, but like a lot of SRPGs these days, they forgot the strategy part. Game is absolutely worth experiencing though and I wish it would have had a bigger influence on the genre since the way it worked was incredibly fun.
I'm also bitter that Fire Emblem always ranks so far behind it.
I'm also bitter that Fire Emblem always ranks so far behind it.
Presentation is rock solid!
I was wondering if anyone put Mass Effect 2 or 3 on their lists and if you considered them RPGs or not. I'm glad to see ME1 up there though, best in the series in my opinion.
For Valkyria Chronicles:
Valkyria's Awakening
Succeeded Wish (JP) - Can't find english version, it's surprisingly good.
Main Theme
Whatever you do, put this song with Mass Effect. This song IS Mass Effect for me and I hope it´s the same for many others:
Uncharted Worlds
It makes me sad some people feel "vindicated" because their hated game is lower in the charts, it´s a boring use for this list. I feel the 50 games that make it should be appreciated in celebrated, with their different strengths and lowcomings.
After I complete Persona 4 Golden, I'm finally going to give FFT a try. Got it from PS+, I dig SRPGs, so I might as well finally try the one Final Fantasy spinoff that I have not touched.
I also wish there was a way to play FF XII Zodiac edition. I couldn't get into vanilla FF XII, and it seems Zodiac may have fixed my prior issues with the game.
Thirding this motion!
I also wish there was a way to play FF XII Zodiac edition. I couldn't get into vanilla FF XII, and it seems Zodiac may have fixed my prior issues with the game.
Thirding this motion!
Lostconfused
Member
Going to have to second this motion.
Yep, Uncharted Worlds defines Mass Effect.
Felix Lighter
Member
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I don't like seeing KOTOR below Mass Effect, even if it was pretty close. Sad to see it fall compared to last year.
On the other hand, I'm very happy to see The Thousand Year Door, one of my all time favorites, rise up quite a bit. It'd be nice if it could get in the Top 10 next year.
Final Fantasy XII:
Royal Capital Rabanastre- City Upper Ground
Penelo's Theme
Felix Lighter
Member
Here's a piece from the Witcher 2 soundtrack that I like quite a bit:
Dwarven Stone upon Dwarven Stone
and another:
Sorceresses
Dwarven Stone upon Dwarven Stone
and another:
Sorceresses
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Hm, I should finally play a Mass Effect game, huh?
You've never played ME?
ME1 is the most RPG, ME2 is more third person shooter but okay story, ME3 is ME2 with more of an RPG tilt (but still barebones). Also there's all that stuff with ME3's ending being bad.
I would at least give the first one a shot, provided that you have a certain level of tolerance for jank It has excellent world building, great atmosphere and easily the best music of the three.
I think the series hits its stride in 2, where the characters and writing become sharper and combat becomes a lot more fun, but obviously many people here would disagree with me.
I think the series hits its stride in 2, where the characters and writing become sharper and combat becomes a lot more fun, but obviously many people here would disagree with me.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
I want to try the first game out since I've read that it's the most RPG-esque of the lot. It interested me the most, and if I like it, I'll play through the rest despite some of the changes.
I already know about the ME3 ending debacle but not the context that goes with it. Haha.
So that means that despite owning them, I haven't played Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon yet. Well, I've played the BD demo...
I already know about the ME3 ending debacle but not the context that goes with it. Haha.
No. I don't have a 360, and what exclusive RPGs to the platform that I've played for a little bit have been on my cousin's 360. I wanted to get ME2 when it came out for PS3, but I didn't like that I hadn't played ME1 so I didn't bother with it. I've watched other people play ME2 but I didn't fully get what was going on.kayos90 said:
So that means that despite owning them, I haven't played Lost Odyssey or Blue Dragon yet. Well, I've played the BD demo...
ME1 was full of jank, but it was promising jank. A little shine and that game could've been great. That's what I expected from ME2 but instead I found a mediocre shooter with its RPG core lobotomized. I think the genre shift together with my expectations caused me to hate the game.
Oh what could've been...
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
So... combat isn't so great as the series goes on? Or is it more like a "it's good for you if it floats your boat" sort of affair?
I imagine the series' strengths are its characters and narrative flow.
I imagine the series' strengths are its characters and narrative flow.
Felix Lighter
Member
Most believe the combat improves over the series but it loses most of its stat based components after the first game and becomes a more standard 3rd Person shooter. I personally enjoy the combat in the first game (coincidentally I'm in the middle of a ME 1 PC playthrough right now) but I'm in the minority. The 2nd game made the powers less effective and boring but the shooting and movement are improved. I think the 3rd game struck a better balance between powers and shooting and is the most mechanically sound.
The main differences are that ME1 had stat points that you could allocate into things like Renegade/Paragon dialogue options, improved the power of your biotics/abilities, increase Shepard's skill in guns making them do more damage (inexplicably) and accurate or give aura bonuses for his 2 current allies. Complementing that is an equipment and inventory system where you can equip different armour, tools and weapons and they can be modded to be completely different. For example an assault rifle that fires continually without overheating or one that can burst fire for massive damage but will overheat quickly. Maybe you like your bullets to be on fire? Or contain cryogenic cores to freeze enemies? Slot that stuff in to your weapons and start shooting dudes!
And ME2 throws that all in to the bin.
And ME2 throws that all in to the bin.
Why do you guys all like Persona 4 more than Persona 3? I'm disappointed. Is it because of Giant Bomb? or because you played P4 before P3? There were exceptions, but I had a hard time caring about a lot of the P4 cast, not in small part because of the voice acting. I'd take Junpei over Yosuke any day of the week. I thought that late-game P3 was more convincingly dark, and the soundtrack was definitely more solid than P4's. P3's final battle was a lot more emotionally charged for me as well - it was hard to care about who was really behind P4 after the third or fourth villain bait-and-switch.
Seeing Persona 3 not even make top 20 while Persona 4 sits at #2 is kind of mystifying. I feel about the same about the margin by which Dark Souls has outplaced Demon's Souls.
Seeing Persona 3 not even make top 20 while Persona 4 sits at #2 is kind of mystifying. I feel about the same about the margin by which Dark Souls has outplaced Demon's Souls.
Felix Lighter
Member
That wasn't all completely done away with but definitely deemphasized and toned way down in scope. There were stat points to allocate but far fewer. You could modify the ammo you fired but not through weapon customizations, it was basically a power. You had different weapons to equip but not nearly as many or as customizable. You had equipable armor but not nearly as many options and you couldn't customize your party's armor.
Well. It's not that. Combat is good; it's just not RPG is what people say. Everyone has their own definition of what is good RPG combat or not and that is what divides people imo. Try it for yourself and judge to see whether it gets good or bad as the series goes on. I personally think that it gets more streamlined as the series goes on and as a result certain aspects of combat work better, like the shooting.
I feel the Endurance Run brought more people into the Persona series. Maybe people just didn't like the seriousness P3 has? I haven't played it, my first SMT game was Persona 4 and your first experience is always special.
Also Dark Souls is better purely because the load times are way shorter.
Yep, essentially everything I liked and wanted to be expanded upon (including the universe and world-building) was de-emphasized or removed completely. And then they started spewing that "You are the chosen one" bullshit that worked against the rich lore they built up. I think they called it the all-story in the Giantbomb GotY categories. Let me look it up.
edit: The GB database doesn't explain it, but it's under the day 3 as a runner up to the PLEASE STOP category.
I never watched the Endurance Run, nor do I care for it, but I found the characters in P4 to be more likeable and enjoyable to watch than P3. Despite saying that, I found the overall narrative and the plot points to be better in P3. What P4 does excel in is the theme of human relations and character interactions. I think it's just a matter in taste. Note, how I only discussed the narrative and not the gameplay.
HiddenSentry
Member
I always had a lot more fun with the not-default classes. Playing with the powers got consistently better over the games, to me. The guns were fine, but why use them when you have black holes, levitation, and earthquakes. Playing with the difficulty bumped up one notch helped with encouraging you to do more than just shoot your gun at fools, too. I'm kinda looking forward to replaying the entire trilogy (when I'm sure ME3 dlc is done). I really wonder if they knew where they'd end up when they started.
Karsticles
Member
FYI, you have a typo in the credits kswiston. A bold tag is not closed.
Thanks for doing this. I would have voted, but I don't feel qualified since I haven't played the Persona or Suikoden games yet. It's wild that Dragon Quest isn't up there at all.
Thanks for doing this. I would have voted, but I don't feel qualified since I haven't played the Persona or Suikoden games yet. It's wild that Dragon Quest isn't up there at all.
Sure, I would take Junpei over Yosuke, but Junpei is the *only* character from Persona 3 that was interesting to me. Then you have the kid (who cares?), the dog (who cares?)... and everyone else is a different shade of stoic/doesn't want to open up to people. Persona 4's characters, by contrast, are pretty memorable and distinct. That matters a lot to me in a 100 hour or so game where a huge portion of it is socializing and getting to know people.
Edit: From ME2 onward, the Vanguard class is a lot of fun to play as, and it is unlike anything else that I've tried in an RPG or a shooter. I could see how playing a Soldier the entire time could get boring.
Didn't you have to ascend 100 levels in the dungeon in P3? That could put a lot of people off.
I never watched and don't really care about the Giant Bomb playthrough and I played Persona 3 before 4, and vastly prefer 4 to 3.
To me, Persona 4's playable cast actually felt like your friends working together to find the culprit while trying to balance school life. With the exception of Aigis, Junpei, and Yukari, 3's cast of characters felt more like your co-workers than actual friends and don't really seem to be developed as 4's. Also, I found 4's lighthearted atmosphere to be far superior to 3's depressing one. The main thing I disliked about 3 was Tartarus. It's not really fun climbing a 200+ floored tower that barely changes and it gets really repetitive after a while. I'm not gonna say 4's randomly generated dungeons are great, but at least each one had it's own style and music to not make it seem repetitive. And while both game's soundtracks are great, 4 was more...catchier for the lack of a better word? In my opinion of course.
Don't get me wrong, Persona 3 is still a damn good game (it's one of my honorable mentions), but for me, 4 is a better game in almost everyway. I will give Persona 3 had a better final boss though (it's probably my favorite final boss ever.)
Honestly, the dungeon floors in P3 I found to be smaller than P4 so it pretty much balances out. Although you're climbing a lot of floors, the area covered is pretty much the same so it really doesn't matter. It's just the number that's intimidating. That's all.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
The story/cast/music is a matter of a taste - I think Persona 4 is better than Persona 3 in all of these area but I can see how some people could think otherwise. However, it's hard to argue that Persona 4 isn't a big step up as far as the gameplay goes and Persona 4 Golden is even better. After playing Persona 4 Golden, I don't think I can go back to Persona 3 and stuff like the extremely boring Tartarus or spending hours in the Velvet Room canceling out of fusions to get the inheritances I actually want just to name a few of Persona 3's biggest faults.
Plus games that are new (and on everyone's minds) or ancient (and widely considered classics) tend to do the best on these kinds of lists. Persona 4 Golden just came out last month so of course it would do well whereas the last new version of Persona 3 came out over 2 years ago.
Phoenixazure
Member
I also think an issue may also have to be with Tartarus just being...boring in comparison to personalized dungeons, though the amount of floors are roughly the same.
But they looked mostly the same, dark and dreary (correct me if I'm wrong). Also I don't think you can directly control allies, but that might've changed in an updated version.
One thing I did like in P4 was the town of Inaba. I truly felt like the sticks with nothing interesting to do besides hand out with friends and work some jobs. The mundanity made the town feel more real, if you know what I mean, it's hard to articulate.
Each section of Tartarus was different but yeah it was hard to tell that it changed other than the color palette. So yeah, I guess you could argue based on that stance. lol.
What I'd be interested in is seeing someone with a broad range of RPG experience and tastes taking this list and acting as a curator. For example, the amount of Final Fantasy titles in the top 10 - while all great games - makes it hard to argue you're truly getting an "essentials" list.
Someone who knows their shit needs to come in with a knife and be ruthless. They wouldn't be allowed to add titles or re-arrange the voted order, just subtract.
Someone who knows their shit needs to come in with a knife and be ruthless. They wouldn't be allowed to add titles or re-arrange the voted order, just subtract.