Support NeoGAF

[Cheebs]

Get with the program. If you support Obama you support Hope and Change. If you don't you support death and despair. There is no middle ground on this issue.

Of course. She has no hope message so none of her liberal ideas will get done in DC despite having democrat control of all 3 branches.

She'll just sit there and look EVIL.

Have you seen her face when she smiles? She has WRINKLES IN IT. OH MY GOD.

I haven't heard a single POLICY reason to not vote hillary in a general from angry gaf liberals who hate her.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Blacks won't vote Republican because Obama isn't the candidate; but a whole lot won't vote at all, and a whole lot would have voted for once if he was.

 

[Cheebs]

Blacks won't vote Republican because Obama isn't the candidate; but a whole lot won't vote at all, and a whole lot would have voted for once if he was.

During a heated primary the democrats scream at eachother and trash eachother but they always fall in line at the end.

There have been democrat primaries a lot more contested and bitter than this one, but in the end the troops always fall in line. Jesse Jackson one a lot of primaries in 88 and even fought at the convention with his decent delegate amount. Blacks still voted for whitey dukakis in the same amount they always do.

If hillary is the nominee the AA turn out will be the same or better than it was for kerry.

 

[whytemyke]

No. Its a logic alarm. How the fuck is she as bad as a republican from a liberal perspective?

She'll put liberals on the court
She'll have liberal economic policy
She'll have liberal domestic policy (universal health care for one)
While she ain't even close to perfect on the war she isn't a neocon wanting to keep troops in Iraq for 1 million years like McCain.

She seems like a pretty damn good candidate to get excited to vote for in a general election over a republican if someone leans to the left.


If you are liberal or left leaning and the general eleciton is her vs. McCain and you AREN'T set on voting for her you are pretty messed up.

I disagree, actually. I think that if polling data says that 72% wants a judge who'll overturn Roe v Wade, then she'll put up a conservative, religious "liberal" who will do it, or at least abstain from any decision. It gets back to that whole thing I've said before-- she's not a "woman president"... she's a woman trying to be a man running for President. She doesn't have a choice but I think a lot of liberals are mistaken in thinking that the womens agenda is going to be a goldrush if she gets elected. There's no way congress passes shit like paid maternity and the ilk.

Plus I think the worst thing that could happen to this country is Hilldog getting to appoint supreme court justices. Christ, we're looking at possibly the biggest chance of court packing since FDR.

She won't have a liberal economic policy because in terms of economics there's not much she can change. Domestic spending will be curbed, hopefully, but I don't even think she'll create national health care. This country is too beholden to insurance companies for any politician to do that, and for one with as many ties as the Clintons, she's not gonna cause people to lose money.

I think that the case could easily be made that more moderate to left things will get done with a republican like McCain than a person like hilldog who galvanizes Congress.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Of course. She has no hope message so none of her liberal ideas will get done in DC despite having democrat control of all 3 branches.

She'll just sit there and look EVIL.

Have you seen her face when she smiles? She has WRINKLES IN IT. OH MY GOD.

I haven't heard a single POLICY reason to not vote hillary in a general from angry gaf liberals who hate her.

The argument changes depending on whatever point they are trying to make. Either we should be voting on electability because Obama is the most electable because black candidates suddenly are extremely electable or we should be voting on principle and who they actually want when in that case if people decide to vote for someone other than Obama, they are either racist, stupid, or not very moral. You're butting your head against a stone wall if you're trying to convince people on here to use logic. The best you can do is say what you think and point out the weird leaps of logic and hypocrisy evident in many cases.

 

[avaya]

I think the Democrats can effectively shatter the illusion that McCain has amongst the "independents". He is also strongly for the war, they should be able to carry the ever growing resentment towards that all the way, whoever their nominee is.

 

[Guileless]

Can you name a country that has economic policies more right-wing than the USA?

By the Heritage Foundation's reckoning, the US is fifth on its index of economic freedom behind Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland, and Australia in that order.

 

[whytemyke]

By the Heritage Foundation's reckoning, the US is fifth on its index of economic freedom behind Hong Kong, Singapore, Ireland, and Australia in that order.

exactly. I think that's where the confusion rests... people confuse economic freedom definitions. "Right wing" economy means that we're not trading with anyone and attempting to become completely self-sufficient. We currently have a very liberal economy which is causing a lot of the problems, because of our freedom of economy most companies are making money elsewhere with workers that aren't so, you know... white.

 

[avaya]

I disagree, actually. I think that if polling data says that 72% wants a judge who'll overturn Roe v Wade, then she'll put up a conservative, religious "liberal" who will do it, or at least abstain from any decision. It gets back to that whole thing I've said before-- she's not a "woman president"... she's a woman trying to be a man running for President. She doesn't have a choice but I think a lot of liberals are mistaken in thinking that the womens agenda is going to be a goldrush if she gets elected. There's no way congress passes shit like paid maternity and the ilk..

So you think after 35yrs of a pro-choice platform she will suddenly elect to over turn Roe vs. Wade by the backdoor? :lol

 

[whytemyke]

So you think after 35yrs of a pro-choice platform she will suddenly elect to over turn Roe vs. Wade by the backdoor? :lol

Well, maybe not let it get overturned. Let's be realistic. It may not be as bad as I described in the post above but the women's agenda isn't going to come front and center just because she got elected.

I think Hilldog knows who pays the bills and will never divert from anything her supporters want. That's not necessarily unique to her, at all, but I think a lot of her supporters are getting their hopes up of what a Hillary Presidency would entail.

 

[avaya]

Well, maybe not let it get overturned. Let's be realistic. It may not be as bad as I described in the post above but the women's agenda isn't going to come front and center just because she got elected.

I think Hilldog knows who pays the bills and will never divert from anything her supporters want. That's not necessarily unique to her, at all, but I think a lot of her supporters are getting their hopes up of what a Hillary Presidency would entail.

I agree some women's issues won't see the light of day, they'll be buried.

However I don't see anything wrong in what Cheebs posted about what Hillary would achieve in terms of maintaining a liberal platform, since her base is liberal to begin with. There is literally no way in hell that she would ever choose to even side with judges who would lean against pro-choice.

 

[Tamanon]

I agree some women's issues won't see the light of day, they'll be buried.

However I don't see anything wrong in what Cheebs posted about what Hillary would achieve in terms of maintaining a liberal platform, since her base is liberal to begin with. There is literally no way in hell that she would ever choose to even side with judges who would lean against pro-choice.

I hope eventually the whole abortion thing will just be dropped from the litmus test. But then again, it's only there as a reaction to the activist court emergence.

 

[Dan]

I haven't heard a single POLICY reason to not vote hillary in a general from angry gaf liberals who hate her.

Her response to this subprime lending business seems highly extreme and problematic to me...

 

[Tamanon]

Her response to this subprime lending business seems highly extreme and problematic to me...

Yeah it seemed more of a "throw an idea out there, the general public won't know it's a bad one, they'll just know you HAVE one"

 

[whytemyke]

I hope eventually the whole abortion thing will just be dropped from the litmus test. But then again, it's only there as a reaction to the activist court emergence.

Good thing Hillary won't appoint activist judges or anything then...

 

[JayDubya]

I hope eventually the whole abortion thing will just be dropped from the litmus test. But then again, it's only there as a reaction to the activist court emergence.

Indeed. If the Blackmun court wouldn't have gone "yeah, it's in there, lol," then we wouldn't be having this problem. Get an amendment passed if you want to meddle with the Constitution, please, kthx.

 

[Juice]

Her response to this subprime lending business seems highly extreme and problematic to me...

Some of the policy ideas she threw out there last summer just to get free polling to test the waters were also really bothersome.

I think anyone who believes Hillary would get anything through congress is fooling themselves. It'll be gridlock (a situation I generally prefer, but think it's been long enough and some legislation actually needs to go through), because of how unwilling the Republicans would be willing to work with her. Unless the Senate gets an 8 seat swing, the Dems won't be able to push much through without them.

The only reason for voting for Hillary I see is to avoid more right-wing judges being put on the court. But in reality, I don't think her justices will be easy to rate on an activist/not or left/right scale, they'll probably just be unwaveringly Clintonian: loyal, organized, and focus-group influenced. As much as I'd like some fresh liberal blood on the court, I'm absolutely opposed to SCOTUS nominations that would be too swayed by public opinion.

I believe she would nominate Bill to the SCOTUS if she had the Senate seats to do it.

 

[avaya]

Her response to this subprime lending business seems highly extreme and problematic to me...

Like?

The only issue with her stance on that is the proposal to freeze the Fed Funds Rate for 5yrs. That is silly if it's done unilaterally. Done without an agreement with China on the dollar's peg would be ok, but you will never get a deal with the Chinese on that.

The subprime mess exists due to lack of government regulation in the housing market and more specifically within the investment sector. It is the government’s fault, the finance sector is full of opportunists. The fact that people were allowed to rate shop opaque structures based on NINJA's is amazing in itself. The amount of risk associated with these products is unbelievable. The SEC has no problems imposing limits on other derivative products it considers too risky - however those products are less risky than their subprime counterparts.

 

[Incognito]

More people who don't know anything about politics

The leading Democratic campaigns have all begun to focus on delegates — the prize awarded in primaries and caucuses.

Barack Obama's aides stress that the Illinois senator may well accumulate almost as many delegates as Hillary Clinton on Super Tuesday without winning as many states.

And Clinton told reporters in Elko, Nevada Friday that she expects the contest to continue after Feb. 5.

“This is ultimately about delegates and how many delegates every one of us have,” she said.

Technical features of the Democratic Party’s primary process could hand significant power to a strong third-place finisher, placing him in a position to determine the nomination.

“If Edwards can continue to do what he’s done – which is to win more than 15 percent of the vote – and to distribute his vote generally all over the state – then he will have a big impact on Super Tuesday,” said Tad Devine, a veteran Democratic consultant who ran Michael Dukakis’s delegate-tracking operation in 1988. “I don’t think his impact is going to be that he’s going to win it. But he’d be in an awfully influential position – more than any other individual.”

“Sen. Edwards' delegates could potentially come into play and he could look for a major role,” said Chris Lehane, a Democratic strategist who supports Clinton.

Rest at link.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

More people who don't know anything about politics



Rest at link.

If this plays out exactly like it sounds, it looks like politics may lose to good old fashioned voting power, I.E. Edwards swings over to Obama and he wins the nomination.

Oh goodness.

 

[Juice]

More people who don't know anything about politics



Rest at link.

No, that is knowing something. February 5th is about delegates. January is about media coverage and momentum. How is that so hard?

 

[Incognito]

No, that is knowing something. February 5th is about delegates. January is about media coverage and momentum. How is that so hard?

It's "hard" because media coverage and momentum haven't meant jack shit this year.

 

[CoolTrick]

I think anyone who believes Hillary would get anything through congress is fooling themselves.

:lol She only has a Senate and House that is controlled by her party to worry about. :lol

People in this thread..

 

[JayDubya]

I believe she would nominate Bill to the SCOTUS if she had the Senate seats to do it.

I somehow doubt a lawyer disbarred for perjury would be a good fit for the highest court of the land.

 

[Incognito]

I somehow doubt a lawyer disbarred for perjury would be a good fit for the highest court of the land.

:lol

 

[whytemyke]

:lol She only has a Senate and House that is controlled by her party to worry about. :lol

People in this thread..

now. wait 2 years.

 

[Juice]

It's "hard" because media coverage and momentum haven't meant jack shit this year.

It's done a good job eliminating every candidate but Obama and Hillary.

 

[JayDubya]

:lol

What's so funny? Dude demonstrated a clear lack of integrity and disrespect for the rule of law. So... probably not a good candidate for a SUPREME COURT. You disagree?

 

[Amir0x]

What's so funny? Dude demonstrated a clear lack of integrity and disrespect for the rule of law. So... probably not a good candidate for a SUPREME COURT. You disagree?

i think his LOL was a laughing with you sorta thing. Could be wrong though

 

[thekad]

Clinton supporters refuse to listen to reason. Keep fighting the good fight guys.

 

[Juice]

I somehow doubt a lawyer disbarred for perjury would be a good fit for the highest court of the land.

Which is why I'm not voting for Hillary.

Edit: what on earth makes you think that would detract from Hillary's nominating him?

 

[Incognito]

What's so funny? Dude demonstrated a clear lack of integrity and disrespect for the rule of law. So... probably not a good candidate for a SUPREME COURT. You disagree?

That laugh was an affirmative.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I'm right. You're wrong. My ego tells me so

Fixed.

 

[JayDubya]

That laugh was an affirmative.

Righteo. *feels relief*

Edit: what on earth makes you think that would detract from Hillary's nominating him?

Hope that she could demonstrate a modicum of sense? Perhaps a misguided hope. Those two seem to want to extend their influence and legacy through any means necessary, so perhaps it's not beyond her to pull something like that.

 

[whytemyke]

What's so funny? Dude demonstrated a clear lack of integrity and disrespect for the rule of law. So... probably not a good candidate for a SUPREME COURT. You disagree?

LAW?! I AM THE LAW!!!


















just felt like a good time for a judge dredd joke.

 

[thekad]

Stoney proves my point.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Stoney proves my point.

Correct. You have a big ego.

 

[JayDubya]

http://xs223.xs.to/xs223/08030/dredd443.jpg
LAW?! I AM THE LAW!!!

Pfft, Vhailor was better.

just felt like a good time for a judge dredd joke.

Never a bad time for a picture that goofy. :lol

 

[Dan]

Like?

The only issue with her stance on that is the proposal to freeze the Fed Funds Rate for 5yrs.

Bingo. That's a gigantic red flag.

The subprime mess exists due to lack of government regulation in the housing market and more specifically within the investment sector. It is the government’s fault, the finance sector is full of opportunists.

I honestly have a problem with any resolution that doesn't acknowledge that the public has to either stop being retarded (read and understand what you're getting yourself into!) or stop trying to live beyond your means.

Not that there isn't anything wrong with some regulation, but really, there's a lot of blame to go around, and I don't anything good coming from absolving people of being dimwits.

 

[APF]

With Obama saying he's the compromise candidate who will bend his ideals to bring-in Conservatives, isn't the real fear he'll be the more accommodating one when it comes to SC nominees and the like, so as to avoid confrontation, whereas Hillary might face the same level of obstinance no matter who she picks, thereby freeing her to nominate someone more ideologically in-line with the Democratic party?

 

[Particle Physicist]

..

 

[Mandark]

With Obama saying he's the compromise candidate who will bend his ideals to bring-in Conservatives, isn't the real fear he'll be the more accommodating one when it comes to SC nominees and the like, so as to avoid confrontation, whereas Hillary might face the same level of abstinence no matter who she picks, thereby freeing her to nominate someone more ideologically in-line with the Democratic party?

That depends more on Bill than it does the GOP.

 

[Stoney Mason]

With Obama saying he's the compromise candidate who will bend his ideals to bring-in Conservatives, isn't the real fear he'll be the more accommodating one when it comes to SC nominees and the like, so as to avoid confrontation, whereas Hillary might face the same level of abstinence no matter who she picks, thereby freeing her to nominate someone more ideologically in-line with the Democratic party?

2+2=Obama as I said earlier in the thread. Learn to love it.

Aren't Hillary and Bill far left extremists like some of the right says she is?
Answer: Obama

Didn't Bill actually govern more as a centrist not to mention he and Hillary generally occupy a position in the middle or even slight right of the Democratic Party?
Answer:Obama

Does Obama's ideas about appointing Republicans and compromise concern any liberals?

Answer:Obama

Well what's the difference then if Hillary is going to make token gestures to the right as would Obama while still trying to accomplish their goals?

Answer:Obama

So is Hillary a leftist extremist, A conservative war hawk, or just a pragmatist like any politician who tries to accomplish their goals with the realization that it requires 60 votes to get most things accomplished in Congress with a very aggressive opposition party, no matter who is elected?

And the answer is:

Spoiler

Obama!

 

[Mercury Fred]

2+2=Obama as I said earlier in the thread. Learn to love it.

Aren't Hillary and Bill far left extremists like some of the right says she is?
Answer: Obama

Didn't Bill actually govern more as a centrist not to mention he and Hillary generally occupy a position in the middle or even slight right of the Democratic Party?
Answer:Obama

Does Obama's ideas about appointing Republicans and compromise concern any liberals?

Answer:Obama

Well what's the difference then if Hillary is going to make token gestures to the right as would Obama while still trying to accomplish their goals?

Answer:Obama

So is Hillary a leftist extremist, A conservative war hawk, or just a pragmatist like any politician who tries to accomplish their goals with the realization that it requires 60 votes to get most things accomplished in Congress with a very aggressive opposition party, no matter who is elected?

And the answer is:

Spoiler

Obama!

:lol

Where do I sign up to join the Stoney Mason Defense Force? I'm a fan.

 

[Stoney Mason]

:lol

Where do I sign up to join the Stoney Mason Defense Force? I'm a fan.

We meet every Tuesday at midnight at a pre-determined location.

Password to get in the door: Obama!

 

[APF]

Mandark, your lexical jab was pathetic.

 

[grandjedi6]

Holy Shit

-Blacks will suddenly start voting Republican emass just because Hillary is the nominee?
-Hillary will put conservatives on the Supreme Court?
-A Democratic majority congress won't work with Hillary just because she is Hillary?

You guys are completely nuts. There is so much spin and negative attacks in this thread that I thought it was the Republican National Council before the General Election.

 

[Father_Brain]

As I've said before, the concern shouldn't be moderates swinging Republican... it should be that they don't go to the polls at all.

I'm fairly certain that there are far, far fewer people who fall into that column than Internet message boards might indicate.

 

[CoolTrick]

Holy Shit

-Blacks will suddenly start voting Republican emass just because Hillary is the nominee?
-Hillary will put conservatives on the Supreme Court?
-A Democratic majority congress won't work with Hillary just because she is Hillary?

You guys are completely nuts.

Seriously, are people even using logical sense? It's ridiculous. It's like, sorry Obama might not win, but you don't need to counter that by throwing rationality out the window.

 

[whytemyke]

I'm fairly certain that there are far, far fewer people who fall into that column than Internet message boards might indicate.

most message boards don't even account for this possibility, so I'd be interested in how you've come to this opinion.