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[SAB CA]

Kamitani & Co really are the best at their style of animation. All those hand-drawn/painted pieces have a real feel of 3D shape and motion to them, and the use of squash / stretch / element deformation is used in such a way where it looks like what an animator would draw to emphasize a 2D animation, rather than a cheap image-stretching effect that a flash animator uses to "cheat" at having motion, without any actual hand-animation.

Orioto, this is a step closer to the frame-by-frame animation we were talking about yesterday, wouldn't you say?

A lot of what's on display here has a similiar smoothness to late 2D animations from the end of the Neo Geo / CPS3 arcade era, so you can tell some of these techniques for overly-smooth portions of animation have been at work for a long while.. great to see more modern games taking advantage again! The day ARC System Works games start to move like this more universally, is the day I cut their animations much more slack, haha.

Oh, and watching the Dungeons and Dragons Chronicles Trailer today, I notice even more how MUCH of this game is a direct homage to that series... the Beholder fight, ship attack by the giant squid, of course the Wizard's existance in general... now I wonder how a Dragon's Crown version of the D&D Thief would turn out...

 

[Weltall Zero]

What would I judge you for?

Posting on GameFAQs. Yes, I know you do so too, it's a half-joke.

And I've seen that post, but since Ignition apparently lied about game features, I would like to see a re-statement of that fact.

There were other stuff they lied about? Damn.
I would also want more recent confirmation, but it seems kind of suicidal to close down something like that in an already quite niche game. But game companies do stupid things all the time, so...

 

[Labadal]

Kamitani & Co really are the best at their style of animation. All those hand-drawn/painted pieces have a real feel of 3D shape and motion to them, and the use of squash / stretch / element deformation is used in such a way where it looks like what an animator would draw to emphasize a 2D animation, rather than a cheap image-stretching effect that a flash animator uses to "cheat" at having motion, without any actual hand-animation.

Orioto, this is a step closer to the frame-by-frame animation we were talking about yesterday, wouldn't you say?

A lot of what's on display here has a similiar smoothness to late 2D animations from the end of the Neo Geo / CPS3 arcade era, so you can tell some of these techniques for overly-smooth portions of animation have been at work for a long while.. great to see more modern games taking advantage again! The day ARC System Works games start to move like this more universally, is the day I cut their animations much more slack, haha.

Oh, and watching the Dungeons and Dragons Chronicles Trailer today, I notice even more how MUCH of this game is a direct homage to that series... the Beholder fight, ship attack by the giant squid, of course the Wizard's existance in general... now I wonder how a Dragon's Crown version of the D&D Thief would turn out...

The thief is not a controllable character. He(she?) will pick up items for you on your adventure. I don't know how accurate that info is now, but that's how it was some time ago.

 

[Lime]

I just played Muramasa through Dolphin, so I figured I'd contribute to this thread by showing how amazing the animation looks in motion:

 

[jdl]

Kamitani & Co really are the best at their style of animation. All those hand-drawn/painted pieces have a real feel of 3D shape and motion to them, and the use of squash / stretch / element deformation is used in such a way where it looks like what an animator would draw to emphasize a 2D animation, rather than a cheap image-stretching effect that a flash animator uses to "cheat" at having motion, without any actual hand-animation.

actually they're using a similar technique in some areas. It's similar to the puppet tool in after effects... where you're not drawing each frame individually, but distorting it to create the illusion of depth. what's interesting about what they're doing is that technique is only used in some areas, whereas more complex elements like flowing garb are done by frame.

 

[Espada]

I just played Muramasa through Dolphin, so I figured I'd contribute to this thread by showing how amazing the animation looks in motion:

I really have to replay this game. I had a blast and the game was just gorgeous. The snow area and the ascent on Mt. Fuji is just... wow.

 

[SAB CA]

The thief is not a controllable character. He(she?) will pick up items for you on your adventure. I don't know how accurate that info is now, but that's how it was some time ago.

Oh, I know that much, I mean I want to see how this attractive lady would be adapted to "Dragon's Crown Playable Character" status...

Would need to maintain a smaller body to look nimble, would probably get exaggeration with her baggy pants...

actually they're using a similar technique in some areas. It's similar to the puppet tool in after effects... where you're not drawing each frame individually, but distorting it to create the illusion of depth. what's interesting about what they're doing is that technique is only used in some areas, whereas more complex elements like flowing garb are done by frame.

Oh, I understand, that's what I think is great about it; instead of using it as a "cheat" like the animation in Rayman origins, they're using it more as another tool for traditional animation. It's a blend of flash-style techniques and traditional ones, and it kinda makes me sad to think that we don't see more animation hybrid work of this type, to this level.

 

[Weltall Zero]

actually they're using a similar technique in some areas. It's similar to the puppet tool in after effects... where you're not drawing each frame individually, but distorting it to create the illusion of depth. what's interesting about what they're doing is that technique is only used in some areas, whereas more complex elements like flowing garb are done by frame.

Yep, a lot of the animation is just a few frames, or even a single one, cut down to elements and puppet-animated and-or stretched. It still works really well, although on closer inspection some of it sticks out a bit. Check for example the dwarf's beard on his walking animation; it's only two frames and the transition is slightly jarring.

 

[Labadal]

She'd probably be super skinny with the baggiest clothes on Earth.

 

[Oyashrio-Sama]

So freaking beautiful!

 

[SAB CA]

She'd probably be super skinny with the baggiest clothes on Earth.

Would be a nice contrast too; tanned skin, a skinnier, less overly-exaggerated chest or butt than the Sorceress or Amazon, a more bare upper-body than the Elf, more leg coverage than any of the other female clothing, A Strider Hiryu-type Scarf, and probably sinewy, Brue Lee-style muscle-tone... but I guess we got the Sorceress in exchange, for now.

 

[Karsticles]

Posting on GameFAQs. Yes, I know you do so too, it's a half-joke.

Ah. I like GFAQs. Its only problem is the moderation policies are ass.

There were other stuff they lied about? Damn.
I would also want more recent confirmation, but it seems kind of suicidal to close down something like that in an already quite niche game. But game companies do stupid things all the time, so...

I just know Ignition lied about stuff as basic as the pricing and release date, so I can't trust anything that hasn't been said by Atlus or Kamitani.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Ah. I like GFAQs. Its only problem is the moderation policies are ass.

I've been posting on GameFAQs forums since 2001 (and posting FAQs since 1996; yep, I'm ancient), but I just can't go back there after GAF. The amount of trolls and, um, less than intelligent posters is just... ugh.

I just know Ignition lied about stuff as basic as the pricing and release date, so I can't trust anything that hasn't been said by Atlus or Kamitani.

Well, I guess it's less "lying" than "being too optimistic" (and probably changing publishers had more to do with that than anything else), but that information seems more "publisher-related", if that makes sense, than whether or not the game supports offline co-op.

On the other hand, nothing is preventing Atlus from telling Vanillaware to ax offline co-op in an attempt to get more sales. Of course, it would be mind-numbingly stupid; as it is, they would have the virtual entirety of couch coop brawler for themselves, sharing it with a grand total of, if my numbers are correct, two, downloadable games (Scott Pilgrim and Castle Crashers), but as mentioned, I no longer consider any company, even Atlus, above "mind-numbingly stupid" actions. :/

 

[Karsticles]

I've been posting on GameFAQs forums since 2001 (and posting FAQs since 1996; yep, I'm ancient), but I just can't go back there after GAF. The amount of trolls and, um, less than intelligent posters is just... ugh.

I feel you. I usually only post on game forums for what I'm playing currently when I need help.

Well, I guess it's less "lying" than "being too optimistic" (and probably changing publishers had more to do with that than anything else), but that information seems more "publisher-related", if that makes sense, than whether or not the game supports offline co-op.

On the other hand, nothing is preventing Atlus from telling Vanillaware to ax offline co-op in an attempt to get more sales. Of course, it would be mind-numbingly stupid; as it is, they would have the virtual entirety of couch coop brawler for themselves, sharing it with a grand total of, if my numbers are correct, two, downloadable games (Scott Pilgrim and Castle Crashers), but as mentioned, I no longer consider any company, even Atlus, above "mind-numbingly stupid" actions. :/

When you say the game will cost half as much as it's going to, I call that lying. I have zero love for Ignition and will assume the worst from them until shown otherwise.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I really have to replay this game. I had a blast and the game was just gorgeous. The snow area and the ascent on Mt. Fuji is just... wow.

Play it on hard for the true man's road.

 

[Weltall Zero]

When you say the game will cost half as much as it's going to, I call that lying. I have zero love for Ignition and will assume the worst from them until shown otherwise.

But as far as we know, they were going to sell it for that price. It was Atlus who changed the price after taking over. Ignition was at most being unrealistic; I will be the first to call companies out (and especially half-assed ones like them), but lying about the price serves no purpose and actually alienates people.

 

[Karsticles]

But as far as we know, they were going to sell it for that price. It was Atlus who changed the price after taking over. Ignition was at most being unrealistic; I will be the first to call companies out (and especially half-assed ones like them), but lying about the price serves no purpose and actually alienates people.

If you proclaim something to be true without actually knowing anything about it, I call that a lie. Making announcements based on hope and conjecture has no place in this industry. That's why Molyneux is the biggest liar in the industry.

 

[CrazyTank940]

That trailer just makes me want the game even more. Release in America already dammit, I want a new game for my Vita

 

[Weltall Zero]

If you proclaim something to be true without actually knowing anything about it, I call that a lie. Making announcements based on hope and conjecture has no place in this industry. That's why Molyneux is the biggest liar in the industry.

No, I mean. THEY WERE going to sell it at that price. It WAS true at that point! Obviously, after the game changed hands, Atlus can charge whatever they want for it. It doesn't seem fair to fault Ignition for Atlus' pricing; they obviously have no say when they are no longer involved.

Unless there is something obvious I'm missing?

 

[BasilZero]

I love their games - cant wait to get this on the PS3!

 

[Karsticles]

No, I mean. THEY WERE going to sell it at that price. It WAS true at that point! Obviously, after the game changed hands, Atlus can charge whatever they want for it. It doesn't seem fair to fault Ignition for Atlus' pricing; they obviously have no say when they are no longer involved.

Unless there is something obvious I'm missing?

I'm sure Ignition was intending to sell it that price, I just doubt that VanillaWare was consulted with on that decision or was even aware of it. The quote from Atlus on the subject seems like it was a "what the hell was Ignition thinking?" moment:
"the game simply cannot retail for $29.99."

I just seriously doubt that Atlus came in, doubled the price, and extended the release date by about a year. I think Ignition just made things up.

 

[yamo]

Hnnnnggggggg....

The dwarf should use axes like in the picture instead of those stupid looking hammers.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I'm sure Ignition was intending to sell it that price, I just doubt that VanillaWare was consulted with on that decision or was even aware of it. The quote from Atlus on the subject seems like it was a "what the hell was Ignition thinking?" moment:
"the game simply cannot retail for $29.99."

I just seriously doubt that Atlus came in, doubled the price, and extended the release date by about a year. I think Ignition just made things up.

Publishers do set prices, which are usually based on both the investment made in developing the game, and potential number of sales. Most likely Ignition was overoptimistic about how long the game would take to make (and in turn, how much would it cost); whether that was a case of them pulling development time estimates out of their asses, or an optimistic estimate coming from VanillaWare, it's hard to say without having been there. In any case, when things turned out to be less golden than they thought, they passed publishing/funding duties to Atlus, which made a different estimate (it was bound to be different in any case, since that was the reason of the transfer in the first place). If Ignition had suspected it would truly take this long they wouldn't have picked it up in the first place.

Development times (and costs, which are a simple function of the former) are incredibly hard to estimate even for the most experienced of professionals; believe me, I've been a software engineer for 14 years. It's really unnecessary to assume malice.

I'm grateful that Atlus was able to pick this up and publish it, in any case. I think the game truly dodged a bullet there.

The dwarf should use axes like in the picture instead of those stupid looking hammers.

Uses both, baby. Several different weapons per character.

 

[Karsticles]

The dwarf should use axes like in the picture instead of those stupid looking hammers.

You get to choose. ;-)

Publishers do set prices, which are usually based on both the investment made in developing the game, and potential number of sales. Most likely Ignition was overoptimistic about how long the game would take to make (and in turn, how much would it cost); whether that was a case of them pulling development time estimates out of their asses, or an optimistic estimate coming from VanillaWare, it's hard to say without having been there. In any case, when things turned out to be less golden than they thought, they passed publishing/funding duties to Atlus, which made a different estimate (it was bound to be different in any case, since that was the reason of the transfer in the first place). If Ignition had suspected it would truly take this long they wouldn't have picked it up in the first place.

I'm skeptical of this much presumption as a basis of explanation. I strongly recall an interview with either Atlus or Kamitani where someone reliable said that Ignition flat out announced features and deadlines that weren't actually discussed with the VanillaWare team. I can't find it, but I'm going to stick with my memory until I see something solid that convinces me otherwise.

Development times (and costs, which are a simple function of the former) are incredibly hard to estimate even for the most experienced of professionals; believe me, I've been a software engineer for 14 years. It's really unnecessary to assume malice.

I'm not assuming malice, I'm assuming incompetence, which is Ignition's track record.

I'm grateful that Atlus was able to pick this up and publish it, in any case. I think the game truly dodged a bullet there.

That, we can agree upon!

 

[Boss Riovane]

I just played Muramasa through Dolphin, so I figured I'd contribute to this thread by showing how amazing the animation looks in motion:

This is why I stand by the notion that this should have gotten a HD rerelease on all systems. This was one of the reasons I bought a wii and loved every minute of it. I cannot wait for Dragons Crown.

 

[Einbroch]

The Knight looks so awesome.

 

[Bombless]

Aaaaah Windmill. The best skill ever.

I am intrigued by DC's story and campaign. Especially the context for those first person shots.

Gah, I need to step away from this thread, it just makes me want it more and mooooooore.

 

[Takao]

I just played Muramasa through Dolphin, so I figured I'd contribute to this thread by showing how amazing the animation looks in motion:

It'll look beautiful on Vita. Though I don't know if I want to buy it if all the new content is DLC.

 

[Sushigod7]

It'll look beautiful on Vita. Though I don't know if I want to buy it if all the new content is DLC.

I'm kind of skeptical on how Muramasa will control on the Vita, I think it will be ok with the stick but I really loved playing with the nunchuk. I'll buy it at launch even though I don't have a Vita anymore because I need the pre order bonus, someday I'll own one again when the price drops.

I plan on playing DC with a arcade stick so that should be fine.

 

[Minions]

Glad they released a new trailer for this. So many rumors in the past about it being canceled. Day 1 purchase for me.

 

[Weltall Zero]

I'm skeptical of this much presumption as a basis of explanation. I strongly recall an interview with either Atlus or Kamitani where someone reliable said that Ignition flat out announced features and deadlines that weren't actually discussed with the VanillaWare team.

I didn't have a clue about that... and from my own work experience, I wouldn't be surprised at all. That is really shitty of them then, regardless of whether or not the deadline and/or cost could be reasonable.

Which indeed leads us back to square one; we indeed can't know for certain if the game will have couch coop or not. I still think it would be mind-numbingly stupid for it not to (hell, I'm one of the people most anxiously waiting for it and even I would reconsider buying it).

 

[SAB CA]

I'd like to say Couch Co-Op is a given, but companies have gotten much worse about respecting it in this generation; each character only being tied to the master account, no ability for the owners to sign into their own files unless they are playing on different hardware... some horrible things have happened.

The amount of wait time for this game to come out hasn't bothered me much. Solid 2D work takes time, and this game seems packed with original, unique things to see and kill in each stage...

... but the lack of solid information at each step is really irksome. You'd think questions like how many players, and in what ways, would be the first things to see on the websites / in mention of the game.

I guess we'll have to wait for Atlus USA's side to give us info on that. None of the GafAtlus regulars posting any info in this thread, eh... doh.

O well, have Phantom Breaker Battlegrounds and D&D Collection to play while waiting for this... It'd be very odd if DC ended up being the one game with the most lacking offline features, while it'll cost more than both those games combined... times 2...

 

[Karsticles]

Which indeed leads us back to square one; we indeed can't know for certain if the game will have couch coop or not. I still think it would be mind-numbingly stupid for it not to (hell, I'm one of the people most anxiously waiting for it and even I would reconsider buying it).

Same here. I would like to play this online with my wife sitting next to me. If I can't do that, it will be lame. If Castle Crashers has it, this should too.

 

[CrazyTank940]

Atlus announced the game will come out this summer physically and digitally, but PS Vita won't have online multiplayer. Just Adhoc.

I wish the Vita version had online since that's the one I want to get (my Vita library is really small compared to my PS3 library).

 

[Qvoth]

Atlus announced the game will come out this summer physically and digitally, but PS Vita won't have online multiplayer. Just Adhoc.

I wish the Vita version had online since that's the one I want to get (my Vita library is really small compared to my PS3 library).

The jp Dragon's crown site clearly shows that you can play vita online too
There's a pic of it in the other thread

 

[caffeware]

Got inspired by this thread and created a mini game with the assets available so far.

screenshot00
screenshot01

Download 5.6MB [windows]

 

[cyborg009]

Got inspired by this thread and created a mini game with the assets available so far.



screenshot00
screenshot01

Download 5.6MB [windows]

The dashing was janky but I enjoyed it.

 

[twentytwo22]

Atlus announced the game will come out this summer physically and digitally, but PS Vita won't have online multiplayer. Just Adhoc.

I wish the Vita version had online since that's the one I want to get (my Vita library is really small compared to my PS3 library).

It's just bad wording on the Atlus PR side. What they mean to say is that as far as OFFLINE options go, the Vita has Ad-Hoc and the PS3 has local multiplayer. They both have online modes (although no cross-play -_-)

 

[OccamsBlender]

Can we take to Ad Hoc Party to multiplayer local only Vita games or just PSP?

 

[Catchafire2000]

This game is like a souped up version of the D&D Chronicles game. Cannot wait to try it out for a bit.

 

[Weltall Zero]

It's just bad wording on the Atlus PR side. What they mean to say is that as far as OFFLINE options go, the Vita has Ad-Hoc and the PS3 has local multiplayer. They both have online modes (although no cross-play -_-)

I really hope you are right, both on Vita having online and PS3 having local mutiplayer. I'm not sure I'd consider evidence on either of them conclusive...

 

[WORLDTree]

Already posted? New info on Dragon's Crown side characters.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/03/2...who-will-be-helping-you-out-in-dragons-crown/

Looks like it confirms online Vita play.

 

[matmanx1]

No online play for the Vita would be an absolute killer of a deal breaker. I'm really glad that isn't the case. I'm considering getting both versions though, depending on the length of the game and how much fun it is to play in short bursts.

 

[Sushigod7]

Already posted? New info on Dragon's Crown side characters.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/03/2...who-will-be-helping-you-out-in-dragons-crown/

Looks like it confirms online Vita play.

I don't think anyone was worried about it not having online they were more pissed it wasn't cross game and you have to use ad-hoc. Nice to see more information trickle on on the game though can't wait to see more!

 

[Weltall Zero]

I don't think anyone was worried about it not having online they were more pissed it wasn't cross game and you have to use ad-hoc. Nice to see more information trickle on on the game though can't wait to see more!

I actually was. Well, "worried" might not be the word, as I don't have a Vita (yet?), and would probably get the PS3 version even if I had (this game screams couch gaming evening).

 

[SolidSnakex]

English trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBMr-lRUU2s

 

[Phife Dawg]

Marvelous.

 

[Sushigod7]

So no mention on the English version for the pre-order art book which is too bad. I really would like to just get one version.

 

[RedSwirl]

English trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBMr-lRUU2s

I was wondering if anybody posted this.