Flying_Phoenix said:"Two Week Rule"?
Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).
Flying_Phoenix said:"Two Week Rule"?
That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...Flying_Phoenix said:The thing is I don't really see the difference between that and a cartoon. Then again what cartoon is as artistic as Vanillaware? As for SSFTHD well the problem was the small amount of cast. Remember Capcom themselves didn't care for the game as Sirlon stated that he was the only one who seemed to care. Remember all the bug and lag problems they talked about as well? Also I wouldn't be surprised if most artists would prefer to work elsewhere. I mean working for a niche video game isn't exactly awe inspiring to most artists.
Yep. Most get locked if they're created too soon.Volcynika said:Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).
Saint Gregory said:That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...
Volcynika said:Most official threads for games are not made more than two weeks before the game's release (I guess that's what he is referring to).
I hope that with the low dev costs that 2D can find a new home on Wii but it'll take a really big hit (SPM wasn't really 2D in a traditional sense) to make that happen. Honestly if I read tomorrow that Nintendo had forged a long time development deal with Production IG the joy would make me faint.Flying_Phoenix said:Well it seems that the Wii is in some way are progressing back up in the console space with this, Wario, probably the next Power Instinct, and Super Paper Mario as well as the tons of 2D ports like the enhanced port of Broken Sword, Guilty Gear XX ^ Core Plus, Phantom Brave, etc.
Flying_Phoenix said:Ahh so it's too soon to create a thread since it doesn't come out until April?
I heard Odin Sphere sold just as much when it was released here.Stumpokapow said:Odin Sphere - 60k first week to 95k lifetime
Grim Grimoire - 14k first week to 36k lifetime
Princess Crown PSP - 11k first week to 22k lifetime
Princess Crown Saturn - <75k lifetime
I really hope that VM still makes a profit on their games with them selling such a small amount as they deserve every penny.ZephyrFate said:I heard Odin Sphere sold just as much when it was released here.
Saint Gregory said:I hope that with the low dev costs that 2D can find a new home on Wii but it'll take a really big hit (SPM wasn't really 2D in a traditional sense) to make that happen. Honestly if I read tomorrow that Nintendo had forged a long time development deal with Production IG the joy would make me faint.
ZephyrFate said:I heard Odin Sphere sold just as much when it was released here.
Saint Gregory said:I really hope that VM still makes a profit on their games with them selling such a small amount as they deserve every penny.
Flying_Phoenix said:The thing is that the reason 2D "doesn't sell" or "mix well" with consoles is because in the past (and even now besides the Wii) all consoles had immersion and realism as a selling factor. 2D is very bad at these things because developers have rarely pushed the dimension itself. Regardless "making it as close to real-life or a movie experience as possible" is what really hurt 2D. If you look at gaming from the Playstation on in a retrospective, nearly all the big games for these systems had a realistic or cinematic look to them in both graphics, atmosphere, and presentation. Yes there are some exception like cell-shaded beauties as Dark Cloud 2 or artistically unique styled as Psychonauts but these games are usually few and far inbetween. 2D gaming on the other hand did allow fully 360 degree exploration nor could it display realistic or cinematic like graphics without them being pre-rendered. The immersion, realism, and cinematic approach to games has been something the industry has followed without disruption from the Playstation to the present.
Saint Gregory said:IIRC Sony specifically blocked 2D games from one of their systems early (can't remember if it was PS1 or PS2 though) in an attempt to push 3D. I love my playstations but I'm still irked by that.
And yeah, I was trying to shorten Vanillaware into VW but for some reason I keep typing VM :/
ZephyrFate said:Yeah, I heard somewhere between 105k and 120k in NA, which is surprisingly good for a niche title and even better for an Atlus title (where any game that isn't Persona doesn't sell all that well).
Odin Sphere made about 400-450k worldwide, which I definitely think turned a lot of profit for MMV. I hope Oboro Muramasa does the same.
Saint Gregory said:That's what I would imagine. Unfortunately 2D console games are becoming rarer and rarer and more companies that stop making them the harder it's going to be to find good artists the work on the few that are left. At least we still have the DS...
FightyF said:2D games are becoming more common on the PC and Xbox 360 platforms.
Look at the 2D games that have been released on Xbox Community Games so far, and some of the great looking ones coming down the pipe.
Look at the 10 best Freeware Platform games of 2008, that came out on PC last year: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/feature_best_freeware_platform.html
I'm sorry, but if you're sticking to the Wii for 2D goodness, that's your problem right there.
Flying_Phoenix said:We are talking about production budgeted and valued 2D games for retail not pick up and play budget games. True production 2D games are still very rare to find.
I agree that there are quite a few great 2D games on the 360... but why be a dick?FightyF said:2D games are becoming more common on the PC and Xbox 360 platforms.
Look at the 2D games that have been released on Xbox Community Games so far, and some of the great looking ones coming down the pipe.
Look at the 10 best Freeware Platform games of 2008, that came out on PC last year: http://www.indiegames.com/blog/2009/01/feature_best_freeware_platform.html
I'm sorry, but if you're sticking to the Wii for 2D goodness, that's your problem right there.
FightyF said:Even with that in mind, my point still stands.
I don't even take anything I say too seriously.Fredescu said:I think you took his post a little too personally. There's nothing overly dickish in there.
He was specifically responding to someone suggesting that 2D games are getting rarer and pointing out that that's not necessarily the case. It is true that if you focus on one platform alone, you might think that certain games were dying out. I don't see anything he said, or even the way he said it, worthy of being called a "dick" or an "asshole" with a "stupid agenda".Thunder Monkey said:But this thread is about a singular 2D Wii game.
Not whether the Wii is the new 2D king, or whatever bullshit someone wants to say.
But I'll be his friend if he just stops the stupid agenda.
:loljaundicejuice said:So we've progressed from "There's no games on the Wii!" to "Why is this game on the Wii?"
Flying_Phoenix said:It sold a tad bit more in North America (like 105k). It's a Greatest Hits title though so doesn't that mean it crossed the 400k barrier world-wide?
Fredescu said:He was specifically responding to someone suggesting that 2D games are getting rarer and pointing out that that's not necessarily the case. It is true that if you focus on one platform alone, you might think that certain games were dying out. I don't see anything he said, or even the way he said it, worthy of being called a "dick" or an "asshole" with a "stupid agenda".
jaundicejuice said:So we've progressed from "There's no games on the Wii!" to "Why is this game on the Wii?"
ZealousD said:I think Sony laxed those requirements. Okami and Disgaea both became Greatest Hits titles as well. But Odin Sphere certainly was a relatively big seller for Atlus IIRC. Not quite as big as Trauma Center: Second Opinion was but certainly one of their best.
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:For a person who hasn't played Odin's Sphere how long was that game?
Flying_Phoenix said:Except that isn't what we were talking about to begin with.
Not really no.FightyF said:Thunder Monkey: I suppose you would hate this thread I made on the next generation of 2D games: Ten Reasons why 2D Games should be revisited on Next Gen Hardware.
blu said:no idea - i have the ntsc version.
backtrack the conversation and you'll see : )Dash Kappei said:I have the ntsc version too, so what the hell are you talking about?
FightyF said:Actually that's exactly what I was talking about. 2D platformers and 2D gaming has probably been the best state it has been in a very long time.
But this could be the wrong thread about it...I just wanted to respond to the notion that 2D games are dying when it's not. That there are even more "production quality" 2D games in the past couple years on consoles and PC than we've seen in the last 5 years on the consoles.
JESUS FUCKIN' CHRIST OMGWTF AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!king zell said:
jsrv said:I absolutely loved Odin Sphere. I hope this game does at least as well as Odin Sphere when it gets released.
radiantdreamer said:*sigh* I still haven't finished Odin Sphere... I'm onchapters and just kinda... gave up...The Dark Knight's
HK-47 said:Imagine if we could get Vanillaware for visuals, Obsidian for story and Kamiya's team for battle system...
I mindgasm'd
Awesome!ReiGun said:If I recall correctly, you can use classic controller or the wiimote sideways. No motion controls.
Flying_Phoenix said:Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?
No.
Flying_Phoenix said:Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?
HK-47 said:Who wants to bet you have played barely any games by the other two? I do!
ZealousD said:Really? I always thoughtchapter was the worst.Velvet'sHer moveset is probably the worst. Also, two bosses at once fucking sucks.
Flying_Phoenix said:Yeah that's by far and wide the worst chapter. Too frustrating?
Joule said:I'd agree that it was the worst in terms of gameplay but it wasn't really that bad. Oswald's advantages are just more minimal than the others. He does have the luxury of not needing to make Painkillers for boss fights as his Shadow form is usually sufficient enough by itself. If you can make some Unlimited Power's early you can do lot of damage with the Shadow Form in the early game before some characters get Overload. Lastly Oswald also gets Psypher Heal iirc so like Cornelius he can do after battle full healing for little cost.
Flying_Phoenix said:Healing isn't that big of a deal to me since I was always well overstocked with healing potions (especially during that time). It's just that his Shadow form was mostly useless because it always quickly drained his stamina which usually resulted with him becoming dizzy not long after. Yes you can prevent this by disrupting it before his stamina goes to zero, but then again the form would only less a couple seconds.
Joule said:Psypher heal is just more cost effective after a regular battle/midboss battle than using potions.
Joule said:As for stamina that's what Unlimited Power is for which gives you quite a bit of time to attack (at least two sessions of Shadow Form before UP's effect runs out).
Flying_Phoenix said:"Cost effective"?
Please elaborate.
Yes I aware of that but hte timing was just far too short, thus making his other short comings truly stick out.
Joule said:Psypher Heal only costs one stock of Phozons and can heal you to max all you have to do is just stand there. You'll probably refill that lost stock, possibly more in the next battle quickly. Rather than use potions to refill your health after regular battles you can just save them for bosses only. Once your HP gets particularly high Psypher Heal is much better than using potions.
Shadow Form + Unlimited Power lasts about as long as anybody else's Overload and Unlimited Power so I'm really not seeing a big difference in duration between them. Oswald also doesn't have to expend Phozon stock for Overload so you can do some Phozon bursts/Cyclones/farming with Phozon Release/Psypher Heal without much care.
radiantdreamer said:This is a good discussion. Please continue. I need more awesome tips so that I can play Odin Sphere again.