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New piracy technique on PS4 in Brazil confirmed real, Sony might take legal action

1. Install 10 games for 150USD
2. Never go online nor update in order to keep using them
3. Get console hardware ban
4. ?????
5. PROFIT

This is genius, spend $150 to save what, $450 total if you take only new title releases (where do you have like 10 new title releases even during same month, other than holiday season?) then never update your consoles and keep playing same games offline forever, also making your $800 a brick that you can't even resell since it will be HW banned as soon as it goes online (I remember PS4 cost a lot in Brazil).

I've already mentioned this several times here in GAF, but no one believed me.
Here in my area, we can actually get a 1TB HDD with full PS4 games for like $150. There's even stores that are selling this kind of service.

Oh, XB1 is also available. Much cheaper, in fact, $50 for 1TB HDD.
 

RobRSG

Member
Nope

You can still play online and update your console just like you used to do. At least while Sony doesnt go after this guys. You guys also should be aware that a minimum wage here in Brazil is around $300 right now. So videogames are very expensive and prohibitive here.

I dont support piracy at all, but I can see why this people would go after that

SOURCE: I'm Brazilian

Not to mention that 2015 is being a tough year in here... Financially speaking.

I'm not going to do this, but I'm not buying new original games either.

I guess that, aside Xenoblade Chronicles X and Metal Gear Solid V, I'm going to skip other releases.
 

FelipeMGM

Member
Yeah, Sony is responsible for the Brazilian government's ridiculous import tax.

Its not even about import taxes because all Sony own published games for example, are printed here. The thing is when it comes to console games, Brazil taxes them as gamble products, wich have the highest tax rates. You guys must know that games from Steam or Nuuvem, are very cheap here in Brazil, they are way cheaper than in the US for standards. Thats because PC Games are taxed like software, and by that they are compared to work or educational computer apps, wich have really low tax rates

Example: The Witcher 3 costs around $90 dollars for PS4 and XOne, while it costs like $30 for PC!!

Yeah, I know, Brazil sucks in taxing.
 

Syntsui

Member
Its not even about import taxes because all Sony own published games for example, are printed here. The thing is when it comes to console games, Brazil taxes them as gamble products, wich have the highest tax rates. You guys must know that games from Steam or Nuuvem, are very cheap here in Brazil, they are way cheaper than in the US for standards. Thats because PC Games are taxed like software, and by that they are compared to work or educational computer apps, wich have really low tax rates

Example: The Witcher 3 costs around $90 dollars for PS4 and XOne, while it costs like $30 for PC!!

Yeah, I know, Brazil sucks in taxing.

Yet, a lot of games have comparable prices to the US due to the dollar valorization/real depreciation. The exception, like MK X and most of Ubisoft games, are the publishers being greedy and applying bigger margins. Just look at these games prices on Steam compared to other publishers.

We have a tax problems, but let's not pretend some of these big publishers aren't just FUCKING us.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Do you honestly believe Sony don't know the hardware ids of the ps4s connecting to their network? The moment a cloned device is known it will be blocked from all online services. Doesn't matter what other accounts are added after that point.

Cloning a primary account to another console does not change that consoles ID. There would be no way for Sony to actually know based on the hardware, because it will just read on the network as a different console on a different account. If the cloned account is never signed in, there would be no way for Sony to match it with the console being used by another account. It's very clever, but fixable.

Tie license restoration to the primary account on a console. Put a timer on it. When that time is up, the license for the cloned games would need to be restored via the primary account, which would not work because there will be more than two activated consoles flagged when they sign in. A customer would need to pay the store again to redo a system or lose it all, which makes in not viable.
 
Sounds like it will be easy to just ban the master account that has the games. Since it's cloned it should stop all the PSN users using that account.
 

recks

Member
Its not even about import taxes because all Sony own published games for example, are printed here. The thing is when it comes to console games, Brazil taxes them as gamble products, wich have the highest tax rates. You guys must know that games from Steam or Nuuvem, are very cheap here in Brazil, they are way cheaper than in the US for standards. Thats because PC Games are taxed like software, and by that they are compared to work or educational computer apps, wich have really low tax rates

Example: The Witcher 3 costs around $90 dollars for PS4 and XOne, while it costs like $30 for PC!!

Yeah, I know, Brazil sucks in taxing.
How much you think would be a fair price for a newly released game here?

Official price for Witcher 3 is 75 USD, you can easily get it for 60 with discounts or smaller shops.
 

Theonik

Member
Sounds like it will be easy to just ban the master account that has the games. Since it's cloned it should stop all the PSN users using that account.
That's probably what they will do which will force people to not take the systems online anymore and stop stores from using the machine to copy any new games.
Edit: Rather, in banning the original hardware ID they ban every system from that store. Efficiency!
 

DieH@rd

Banned
So this is basically taking the account - system linking thing with offline games and exploiting the hell out of it by just cloning one system to another. That's an insane form of piracy.

I would guess no, because Wololo mentions that raspbery pi is needed for brute force flashing of some other BIOS/NAND data into the client console. The client console is transformed from regular state into the state where only 2 accounts exists, with 10 games installed on HDD.

At first look I wanted to say that they are brute forcing "mirror image" of the console X into many other consoles [which includes BIOS, NAND where OS is booted from and all HDD data], but then Wololo said that users can pay $15 for additional game installations. That means that brazilian hackers can "add" more data to target HDDs at will, without destroying old data.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Its not even about import taxes because all Sony own published games for example, are printed here. The thing is when it comes to console games, Brazil taxes them as gamble products, wich have the highest tax rates. You guys must know that games from Steam or Nuuvem, are very cheap here in Brazil, they are way cheaper than in the US for standards. Thats because PC Games are taxed like software, and by that they are compared to work or educational computer apps, wich have really low tax rates

Example: The Witcher 3 costs around $90 dollars for PS4 and XOne, while it costs like $30 for PC!!

Yeah, I know, Brazil sucks in taxing.

Wow, that makes no sense.
 

Syntsui

Member
I just noticed the guys said The Witcher 3 would cost 90 dollars.

For god's sake STOP spreading misinformation. It won't cost that much at all, that is ridiculous, a simple search on the biggest retailers will give you the price between R$230 - R$195 which is about US$75 - US$65.

Edit for proof:

http://www.magazineluiza.com.br/the...uu49WZqrv22oVHI42UrILdGGSk1ga3ov6TxoCKZTw_wcB

http://www.walmart.com.br/comparado...dium=comparadorpreco_cpa&utm_campaign=buscape

http://www.fastgames.com.br/loja/pr...6_1OBq7eMaJnxlBiH869kyQKzuSPEDr-pjhoCuSbw_wcB


http://www.saraiva.com.br/the-witch...ZkLIRQ4ZPYeq5uMAE0ezX1QE7JlfHIk22BoCDxDw_wcB&
 
If this propagates, it will sell more and more PS4 in third world countries. One of the reasons why most people in my country chose a 360 over a PS3 was the ease of hacking and modding the 360 and the fact that it happened quickly.

Sony of course would do anything to stop it since they rely on software sales to make a profit out of the PS4.

I always said that it would be a good idea let your console get hacked at the right time, then patch the hack out a year later or so.

But sensationalism aside, if somebody would actually make a sophisticated projection, this would probably proof to be a really bad idea.
 

RobRSG

Member
I just noticed the guys said The Witcher 3 would cost 90 dollars.

For god's sake STOP spreading misinformation. It won't cost that much at all, that is ridiculous, a simple search on the biggest retailers will give you the price between R$230 - R$195 which is about US$75 - US$65.

That's the case for The Witcher 3.

Mortal Kombat X was 90 dolars at launch.
 

Pacotera

Banned
Im from Brazil and can confirm the "exploit" is real, but can also confirm (knowing how its done) it will be patched as soon as sony get a hold of the method... will be easy as fuck for them btw.....

Then we will see if those users will get banned or not
 

orava

Member
I still remember the time when sony allowed you to install linux to their console with their "open platform" initiative.
 

Dargor

Member
XBox One launch price: R$ 2,299 (~US$ 740)
PS4 launch price: R$ 3,999 (~US$ 1,290)

If I remember correctly, Xbone was not listed as an import, PS4 it seems was and also made a trip from China to USA, then imported to Brasil or some ridiculous stuff like that.

Not only that, but Sony chose to use full tax price for everything, even the ones that could have been lowered.

That price was so ridiculed at the time, that some news sites reported that it was cheaper to travel to the USA, spend some time in Disney World or whatever, buy the the PS4 and you would still have some change lol.

Needless to say, R$4000,00 was not a sensible price hehehe.
 
Im from Brazil and can confirm the "exploit" is real, but can also confirm (knowing how its done) it will be patched as soon as sony get a hold of the method... will be easy as fuck for them btw.....

Then we will see if those users will get banned or not

explain more...?
 
Ban them, Sony.
Ban them all.

While you're at it, would you kindly also fire everyone from Sony Brasil involved in LE R$4000 PS4 XD debacle? Thanks.
 

Meaty

Member
This can't be stressed enough. We all know the harsh reality we live in, but let's not pretend the people that actualy have a PS4 here are poor, so they can't buy games.

I just don't agree with the PC comment, you know how expensive it is to build a PC to play modern games at decent framerates and decent graphics. If we want to build a PC comparable to a PS4, we are talking about a R$5,000 investment here, minimum.

I have a R$3,000 notebook that can't run MK X at 60fps on any stage other than the training stage, this with 800x600 resolution and everything on the worst quality. I know in the long run, considering the low price of the games, it can be worth it. but the initial investment is absurd. Also, we just can't trust the developers to port every game properly, just look at the MK X fiasco.

PS4 is the best option to play games, you just have to buy a big HDD and subscribe to an american PSN account to get cheaper games.



I agree with you first sentiment.
The situation is awful. You are right. To me, that justifies piracy on pc, ps3 and xbox360, but if you can afford a top of the line console, you cant use the "things are expensive" card.


I actually think piracy on older consoles is healthy for the market. Its how most of the brazilian market was created.
Pirating games that were old while the rest of the world was ahead of us, and then growing to like videogames evetually buying legitimate copies when we grew older.
 

Maedhros

Member
$75 in Brazil is still too much.

Minimum Wage in Brazil is around R$788 ($260,723984).
The average salary in Brazil is around R$1943 ($642.876524).

Shit is expensive.

They should price the games in accord to the local market... of course... this won't happen.

That's why I love digital games in Brazil. The games are much better priced, in line with our market.
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
This can't be stressed enough. We all know the harsh reality we live in, but let's not pretend the people that actualy have a PS4 here are poor, so they can't buy games.

I just don't agree with the PC comment, you know how expensive it is to build a PC to play modern games at decent framerates and decent graphics. If we want to build a PC comparable to a PS4, we are talking about a R$5,000 investment here, minimum.

I have a R$3,000 notebook that can't run MK X at 60fps on any stage other than the training stage, this with 800x600 resolution and everything on the worst quality. I know in the long run, considering the low price of the games, it can be worth it. but the initial investment is absurd. Also, we just can't trust the developers to port every game properly, just look at the MK X fiasco.

PS4 is the best option to play games, you just have to buy a big HDD and subscribe to an american PSN account to get cheaper games.

Come on, you dont need R$5.000,00 to build a desktop as good as a PS4. Not even nearly that much! I bought a GTX 570 build desktop 3 years ago (or more I dont know), for R$1.200,00 and I still can play most PC games in a VERY acceptable IQ and frame-rate. Nowadays I'm sure you will pay less then you pay for a PS4 to build a destktop thats actually stronger then the PS4 itself, running most games at 1080p and high-ultra settings.

A notebook is a different story, theyre usually expensive.
 
That's probably what they will do which will force people to not take the systems online anymore and stop stores from using the machine to copy any new games.
Edit: Rather, in banning the original hardware ID they ban every system from that store. Efficiency!
Explain to me how you ban a system that never goes online?
 

Syntsui

Member
$75 in Brazil is still too much.

Minimum Wage in Brazil is around R$788 ($260,723984).
The average salary in Brazil is around R$1943 ($642.876524).

Shit is expensive.

They should price the games in accord to the local market... of course... this won't happen.

That's why I love digital games in Brazil. The games are much better priced, in line with our market.

Let's face it, the publishers are not stupid and they know our reality. They know our consumerist habits too, there is a reason why Apple and car manufacturers have the biggest margins on the planet right here.

Even if you consider all the taxes, they still price the product much higher than they should. And you know why? Because people buy them, simple as that. It's true for smartphones, it's true for cars, it's true for video-games. This is a problem within our society and should not be entirely put on the government's back.

In regards to your second point, considering our PC market is pretty much entirely digital / Pirate Bay dependant, it makes sense for the publishers to price them accordingly. Don't forget the taxes for PC games are calculated differently, so they are cheaper even in physical format too.

Now if you are talking about brazilian PSN, pretty much all releases have the bullshit prices of the retail market, but I have to agree that older games are usualy cheaper than the american PSN. That's on the dollar valorization too, but still, it's more and more worth it to subscribe to a brazilian account.
 

Theonik

Member
Explain to me how you ban a system that never goes online?
Banning the system doesn't mean remotely disabling the system. For the shop though their system needs to be online otherwise they cannot load new games to it. This means they can't stop them from copying games already on the HDD but they can't let their customers load any new games.
The way their system works is by putting 10 games on their parent system via PSN*, then cloning the system to the customer system. For this to work they need to be online.

*Or that LAN download booster
 

Kssio_Aug

Member
It is true that we have high gaming taxes, it is true that companies usually overprice their stuff here (iphone and PS4 being the better exemples), but its also true that we, brazilians, like to inflate the sitation sometimes, like saying a decent PC cost that much said, or that the avarage consumer cant afford original gaming. The financial crisis is happening everywhere, we're feeling it more then others with such high prices but you can always look for games and consoles on gray market, paying a more accessible price in a physical copy, selling or trading it later, or buying digital games cheaper, looking for promotions, not buying every hyped release game, using Steam, and so on...

It is very sad we can't go to a shopping center and buy our games or consoles paying a fair price there. That we usually need to look for importers. That our government refuses to do something about it, and that companies dont give a fuck either and overprice the hell out of their products. But I feel like most of us dont usually support the "oficial" (and unfair) market, except when they're pricing similar with the gray market and offering guarantee.
 
I've already mentioned this several times here in GAF, but no one believed me.
Here in my area, we can actually get a 1TB HDD with full PS4 games for like $150. There's even stores that are selling this kind of service.

Oh, XB1 is also available. Much cheaper, in fact, $50 for 1TB HDD.

What? XB1 also hacked similarly and available for cheap?
 

Dargor

Member
Explain to me how you ban a system that never goes online?

Unfortunately for the guys that are buying this, the dudes who are selling it are saying that they can play online and stuff.

I'm from Brasil, I read the original UOL Jogos article, they even had the games download patches and stuff. So yeah, some people will get burned here.
 

Syntsui

Member
Come on, you dont need R$5.000,00 to build a desktop as good as a PS4. Not even nearly that much! I bought a GTX 570 build desktop 3 years ago (or more I dont know), for R$1.200,00 and I still can play most PC games in a VERY acceptable IQ and frame-rate. Nowadays I'm sure you will pay less then you pay for a PS4 to build a destktop thats actually stronger then the PS4 itself, running most games at 1080p and high-ultra settings.

A notebook is a different story, theyre usually expensive.

Can you play Mortal Kombat X with graphics and framerate (this is the most important) as good as in the PS4 edition with the PC you are talking about?

Please tell where you can build a PC powerfull enough to do that with less than R$2,000 (which is the price of a PS4 + extra controller + MK X).

You just said you paid R$1,200 only on the GPU. You need a good CPU, a modern motherboard, at least 8GB DDR3 memory, a decent cooler, a decent HDD/SDD (games keep getting bigger). Build that from scratch and you will end up paying more than R$5,000.

I had a old PC with a old board and dual core CPU. Even though I had a good card (AMD R7950 twin frozr III), to play MK X I would have to upgrade the motherboard, get at least a i5 core, get at least 8GB RAM and a new cabinet. So even considering I have a good GPU, I would still spend about R$1800 - R$2500 in upgrades. Do you think that's reasonable?
 
Cloning a primary account to another console does not change that consoles ID. There would be no way for Sony to actually know based on the hardware, because it will just read on the network as a different console on a different account. If the cloned account is never signed in, there would be no way for Sony to match it with the console being used by another account. It's very clever, but fixable.

You are assuming that the primary account info for a PS4 isn't in any way used when connecting to PSN.

I don't know whether that's a safe assumption or not.
 
Piracy wont affect very much like old days now because most of the game getting released are online focused and have many patches, so they need internet to enjoy all the new DLC content and bug free games if they want to use PS4 for new games. Sony might be able to patch this in future update and future titles might be asked that update to work.
 

sensui-tomo

Member
What's the point of PT when Silent Hills isn't coming? It was a cool little marketing tool, but it really isn't rewarding at all.

Its fun to have to scare friends with when you have a party, seriously I had fun seeing friends reactions while they're trying the game out, (its a fun social experience)
 

Innolis

Member
Explain to me how you ban a system that never goes online?

You don't ban the console. You start bundling mandatory system updates on newer games like MS did on the 360 at one point.

Either way, this is not a jailbreak, they didn't hack the console. Its just an exploit. If at some point the console does get hacked, then its just a cat and mouse game between hackers and sony.
 

Shari

Member
I have a R$3,000 notebook that can't run MK X at 60fps on any stage other than the training stage, this with 800x600 resolution and everything on the worst quality. I know in the long run, considering the low price of the games, it can be worth it. but the initial investment is absurd. Also, we just can't trust the developers to port every game properly, just look at the MK X fiasco.

You could also buy a bugatti veyron to fly all over the world on holidays and it won't fly, even tho it cost a million bucks.
 

Maedhros

Member
Let's face it, the publishers are not stupid and they know our reality. They know our consumerist habits too, there is a reason why Apple and car manufacturers have the biggest margins on the planet right here.

Even if you consider all the taxes, they still price the product much higher than they should. And you know why? Because people buy them, simple as that. It's true for smartphones, it's true for cars, it's true for video-games. This is a problem within our society and should not be entirely put on the government's back.

In regards to your second point, considering our PC market is pretty much entirely digital / Pirate Bay dependant, it makes sense for the publishers to price them accordingly. Don't forget the taxes for PC games are calculated differently, so they are cheaper even in physical format too.

Now if you are talking about brazilian PSN, pretty much all releases have the bullshit prices of the retail market, but I have to agree that older games are usualy cheaper than the american PSN. That's on the dollar valorization too, but still, it's more and more worth it to subscribe to a brazilian account.

I was talking about Nuuvem and Steam.

PSN Brazil is a POS. No one with a console should use it, and I feel sorry for people who uses it. People should go for the american one.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
You are assuming that the primary account info for a PS4 isn't in any way used when connecting to PSN.

I don't know whether that's a safe assumption or not.

That's a fair point. We can test this, maybe.

You could also buy a bugatti veyron to fly all over the world on holidays and it won't fly, even tho it cost a million bucks.

You could built a ramp for $5 and sure make it fly. I'm not sure you would ever drive it again though, or be capable, or even living.
 
I guess this method isn't too "popular" yet, because I've enever hear of it. That said, I live in Brasília, not São Paulo. Not a huge game scene here.
 

Neofire

Member
A bit of both, I am presuming.

Can understand why Brazilians are frustrated about game prices. But this isn't the right way to go about it as this will increase cost most likely.
I agree, seeing that video gaming is a luxury and not a right and this will hurt Sony and legit customers greatly if it spreads and they are unable to put a stop to it right away And the exploit didn't even originate from Brazil but it's being used the most by them.
 

RobRSG

Member
Can you play Mortal Kombat X with graphics and framerate (this is the most important) as good as in the PS4 edition with the PC you are talking about?

Please tell where you can build a PC powerfull enough to do that with less than R$2,000 (which is the price of a PS4 + extra controller + MK X).

You just said you paid R$1,200 only on the GPU. You need a good CPU, a modern motherboard, at least 8GB DDR3 memory, a decent cooler, a decent HDD/SDD (games keep getting bigger). Build that from scratch and you will end up paying more than R$5,000.

I had a old PC with a old board and dual core CPU. Even though I had a good card (AMD R7950 twin frozr III), to play MK X I would have to upgrade the motherboard, get at least a i5 core, get at least 8GB RAM and a new cabinet. So even considering I have a good GPU, I would still spend about R$1800 - R$2500 in upgrades. Do you think that's reasonable?

I've paid R$1.280 on my PS4 last year and I really doubt you could do better for that value building a PC.

PC parts are expensive. You would pay R$694,37 for a sole 750TI in Brazil. Good luck with the remaining parts to fit the budget.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Probably selling the P.T. demo at a high rate

This is much faster than Ps3. Ps3 was untouched for years.

Too soon to be related but still P.T. will be a thorn in their side for many years to come in this regard.

What's the point of PT when Silent Hills isn't coming? It was a cool little marketing tool, but it really isn't rewarding at all.

Those of us with concerns about digital distribution and a digital consumers bill of rights have an emblematic release to indicate "what can happen." It's about more than the actual game.

That said, everything I've heard indicates P.T. alone would be a better experience to play than the last two Silent Hill releases.

I guess I'm not allowed to ever know, empirically.
 

Syntsui

Member
I was thinking, even if they sell the console with a lot of games installed, won't you be unable to play them the moment you desync the account saved?

So if you want to sign in with you own account, all the games installed will be useless.
 
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