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New Sonic Next gen shots
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You're all being misled by the demo into thinking this is some action adventure game.
Sure, initially theres all the running and jumping hootenanny. But when he enters the real world, he can't just run around all day like some freeloading good for nothing hippy. No. He settles down, gets a real job in the accounting department of a stationary firm and pays very real taxes.
Remember those spreadsheet 'games'. Imagine them in HD. In 4D. With the occasional nasel wisecrack.
That's when next gen starts.
Sure, initially theres all the running and jumping hootenanny. But when he enters the real world, he can't just run around all day like some freeloading good for nothing hippy. No. He settles down, gets a real job in the accounting department of a stationary firm and pays very real taxes.
Remember those spreadsheet 'games'. Imagine them in HD. In 4D. With the occasional nasel wisecrack.
That's when next gen starts.
Space Runaway
Member
Ixzion said:
Because they'll just **** it up.
Skilotonn said:
Sonic Wii is EXACTLY what Sonic is supposed to be. No post-apocolypic world. No shitty human princess with bad tans. No stupid other hedgehogs, bats, cats (though Rush was good), rabbits, or whatever else they want to through in the game. No crappy story that is supposed to "mean something".
He's running in Sonic Wii. He's jumping. He's going fast. He requires quick, skillfull reflexes. He has a good camera. He doesn't have any of his shitty ass friends.
And more importantly: HE'S NOT BEING DEVELOPED BY THE STUDIO THAT BROUGHT YOU "SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG"
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
Agrered 100%.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
MobiusPigeon said:
Yes, and that's one of the shitty parts of the game. Sega seems to determined to destroy the series by making each sequel shittier and shittier. This is most certainly not the natural next step for the series. Sega needs to take out those poorly designed shit extra characters they have, take sonic OUT of the human world (no more ****ing human NPCs!!!), and focus on making a real Sonic game. The wii game seems far more of a real sonic game.
momolicious
Member
umm, so sonic cant evolve?
GitarooMan
Member
Sure he can, the question is do you like an evolution where he's running around a post-apocolyptic wasteland with a bunch of shitty friends carrying a human princess around?momolicious said:
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
GitarooMan said:
yeah sure, why not?
Ninja Scooter
Member
momolicious said:
its completely unneccesary. Sonic was sonic, it was fine the way it was. Trying to make it into this post-apocalyptic mature crap just makes the whole thing look ridiculous (and when we're talking about a giant, blue hedgehog who wears sneakers and runs really fast, thats saying something). Why doesn't Disney make a Mickey Mouse movie where he raps and takes ectasy?
Azure Dream
Member
So, what do people want in a new Sonic game? What "fixes" things?
Everyone complains about the gameplay in the past few Sonic games. OK, how do you make it right? First off, you can't produce a $60 next gen game and restrict it to 2D. Most gamers in this day and age just don't get why they should pay full price for a "limited" game like that. The Sonic Advance and Rush series are already 2D. So let's say the execs want that $60 and are FORCING you to put Sonic in 3D environments. Or maybe you think it'll work better that way, either way: what's wrong, and how do you make it right? Specifically? Stick him in some fields and say "Go that way"? Sounds fun, but hell from a developer standpoint, and progression becomes unclear. And if you don't stick clear goals in a Sonic game, people will complain that it's an undirected mess, and that they don't want to play an RPG, they want a Sonic game. How do you resolve that?
People complain about the "shitty friends," but they're marketing cash, and it'd be foolish and would pry yells from the various fans to not see their favorite characters in the game. How many people complained about Mighty no longer being in Team Chaotix, who was TWICE just simply filler for a Sonic sprite edit? Friggin' Mighty. Now you're saying "Make a game without Tails. At all." Yeah, that'll go over well. Knuckles and Amy are pretty much tied in as well, as the license goes. And if Sonic's going to have a story side to explain why partners are changing in and out and what's happening, it'd look stupid for Silver to play through an entire side with no story. People would say the game wasn't actually finished. So in goes a couple more, including Blaze from the popular Sonic Rush (which, last I checked, people here liked). And Shadow's easy money, plus a way for developers to tinker with "next gen" elements more if you hadn't noticed. (Shadow focuses on fighting through areas more than running, including the famous next-gen "crowds of enemies" scenarios.) If it's any consolation, rumors about say that something may happen to one or two of the "shitty friends". It may not be permanent, but you'll get satisfaction from that, I assume.
I'm curious, because they tried to go the simplified streamline route with Heroes, the epic route with this, and people mock it no matter which way it goes in terms of design. They want Shadow of the Colossus, but they don't want Sonic to be Shadow of the Colossus. They say they want brightly-colored hills and techno cities with as little cinemas as possible, but not like Sonic Heroes because they didn't like that. (Because, holy crap, you had to press a button to switch characters and fly once in a while. And even though that was great fun in the 2D games, in the 3D games, it's evil somehow.) They offer vague comments, bitching about how Sonic controls (again, how do you "fix" that in specific ways?), complaints if anyone other than Sonic is playable (these people apparently stopped playing before Sonic 2 was made), and some nostalgic comment about wanting checkered hills that he can zip around.
I sound bitter, I know, but I mean it as a valid question, please try to answer it. You say Sonic is broken. Specifically, what's broken and how do you fix it? Are you going to point to a screenshot where the shadows don't look that great, ignoring the fact that you're looking at real-time generated shadows from multiple light sources, including self-shadowing on a HELPER character? Did they model Amy Rose's hands a little too big and that breaks the game for you? Are you angry about the escort mission you know nothing about other than a screenshot or two of Sonic carrying the princess, potentially forgetting the fact that there are "high speed" segments in the game and this may just be one of them? How can you tell when elements of a game are "broken" or "shitty" when you've only played Sonic through a prerelease demo of half a level? And how do you fix those things you think are broken? Or are you just going to throw more vagueries and nostalgia about?
Everyone complains about the gameplay in the past few Sonic games. OK, how do you make it right? First off, you can't produce a $60 next gen game and restrict it to 2D. Most gamers in this day and age just don't get why they should pay full price for a "limited" game like that. The Sonic Advance and Rush series are already 2D. So let's say the execs want that $60 and are FORCING you to put Sonic in 3D environments. Or maybe you think it'll work better that way, either way: what's wrong, and how do you make it right? Specifically? Stick him in some fields and say "Go that way"? Sounds fun, but hell from a developer standpoint, and progression becomes unclear. And if you don't stick clear goals in a Sonic game, people will complain that it's an undirected mess, and that they don't want to play an RPG, they want a Sonic game. How do you resolve that?
People complain about the "shitty friends," but they're marketing cash, and it'd be foolish and would pry yells from the various fans to not see their favorite characters in the game. How many people complained about Mighty no longer being in Team Chaotix, who was TWICE just simply filler for a Sonic sprite edit? Friggin' Mighty. Now you're saying "Make a game without Tails. At all." Yeah, that'll go over well. Knuckles and Amy are pretty much tied in as well, as the license goes. And if Sonic's going to have a story side to explain why partners are changing in and out and what's happening, it'd look stupid for Silver to play through an entire side with no story. People would say the game wasn't actually finished. So in goes a couple more, including Blaze from the popular Sonic Rush (which, last I checked, people here liked). And Shadow's easy money, plus a way for developers to tinker with "next gen" elements more if you hadn't noticed. (Shadow focuses on fighting through areas more than running, including the famous next-gen "crowds of enemies" scenarios.) If it's any consolation, rumors about say that something may happen to one or two of the "shitty friends". It may not be permanent, but you'll get satisfaction from that, I assume.
I'm curious, because they tried to go the simplified streamline route with Heroes, the epic route with this, and people mock it no matter which way it goes in terms of design. They want Shadow of the Colossus, but they don't want Sonic to be Shadow of the Colossus. They say they want brightly-colored hills and techno cities with as little cinemas as possible, but not like Sonic Heroes because they didn't like that. (Because, holy crap, you had to press a button to switch characters and fly once in a while. And even though that was great fun in the 2D games, in the 3D games, it's evil somehow.) They offer vague comments, bitching about how Sonic controls (again, how do you "fix" that in specific ways?), complaints if anyone other than Sonic is playable (these people apparently stopped playing before Sonic 2 was made), and some nostalgic comment about wanting checkered hills that he can zip around.
I sound bitter, I know, but I mean it as a valid question, please try to answer it. You say Sonic is broken. Specifically, what's broken and how do you fix it? Are you going to point to a screenshot where the shadows don't look that great, ignoring the fact that you're looking at real-time generated shadows from multiple light sources, including self-shadowing on a HELPER character? Did they model Amy Rose's hands a little too big and that breaks the game for you? Are you angry about the escort mission you know nothing about other than a screenshot or two of Sonic carrying the princess, potentially forgetting the fact that there are "high speed" segments in the game and this may just be one of them? How can you tell when elements of a game are "broken" or "shitty" when you've only played Sonic through a prerelease demo of half a level? And how do you fix those things you think are broken? Or are you just going to throw more vagueries and nostalgia about?
GitarooMan said:
There's people like this that would defend anything and don't get anything about the identity of games / series and what makes that identity.
I can bet my life there would be people defending a new Mario game after it becomes a realistic NASA flight simulator instead of a platformer.
GitarooMan
Member
The biggest thing they need to make from what I saw in the demo by far is the control and camera. If they were solid, I wouldn't care very much about the story and stuff. The control is too oversensitive in the demo, the best example is where you're running sideways on the wall and it's nearly impossible to line up Sonic on the speed arrows because it's so jerky. I have no problem with the game being 3D but if they are going to make the levels fully 3D and not just on rails they need to fix the control and camera to something more like Jak and Daxter with added speed. I'm a huge 3D platformer fan and will probably play this game at some point no matter what, but the controls feel incredibly unpolished compared to good examples in the genre.
Azure Dream
Member
AniHawk said:
Like I didn't see a couple responses like that coming a mile away.
"I didn't want to read this and write a response. lol"
Azure Dream
Member
AniHawk said:
So, tackle the general question: what's broken, and how should it best be "fixed"?
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
Look, this is pretty simple. If they did this to Mario, Mario and Luigi would be in the real world (odd cartoony proportions and all) and interact with humans (who would look normal). Wario would turn from a bumbling humorous bad guy into some angsty Mario clone who drives cars and does drive bys. Then they would add a bunch of filler characters with poorly concieved gameplay. With all this crap added, the actual Mario platforming parts would be reduced greatly due to the bullshit adventuring (talking to NPCs) and unwanted use of having to play the other characters (who play different and not as all as fun as the Mario parts.) Would you guys defending current Sonic games defend a mario game like that?
MobiusPigeon
Banned
mj1108 said:
hell no. the ds and gba games are utter crap IMO.
this game looks authentically horrible, but most reactions to sonic on gaf are about nintendo -- sonic is a travesty when it isn't nintendo exclusive, and when it is nintendo exclusive it's A REFRESHING RETURN TO CLASSIC SONIC GAMEPLAY, even if the game in question is ridiculously simplified or made by dimps.
Kulock said:
How to fix it:
If you're going to introduce a new character, make sure it's something that can improve the gameplay or offer something different (WITHOUT ruining something that was good). That's what Tails and Knuckles did (originally). Doing it for story's sake is step one to shitville (Shadow, Silver). Also, adding characters because you need to expand the length of the game also sucks (Everyone except Sonic in SA. Everyone except Sonic and Shadow in SA2. Blaze in SR).
Story is not the most important thing in a Sonic game. Sonic games should not revolve around the story unless the story is something that will provide good gameplay. Sonic and his Shitty Friends fell into the trap that Jak II did. They had something (BIG DARK CITY) and had to make a game around it. No. Bad idea. Sonic and his Shitty Friends has BIG POST-APOCALYPTIC WORLD and they're trying to make a game, a Sonic game no less, around it. Won't work.
MobiusPigeon
Banned
drohne said:
i disagree. I think the game looks awesome and the demo (and screens in most cases) seemed to be headed in the right direction (back toward adventure 1) but the control just sucks bad right now and so does the camera.
i was gunna get this for my son.
i originally got all the one released on the cube for him and i but as i played them i started disliking them and eventually stoped even watching him play them as they got worse and worse.
i downloaded the demo today. was super excited. looked awesome.
i fell off that cliff a bajillion freekin times in the 1st turn.
so much i got pissed and put it away .
the controls are jacked just like before if not even more so.
i originally got all the one released on the cube for him and i but as i played them i started disliking them and eventually stoped even watching him play them as they got worse and worse.
i downloaded the demo today. was super excited. looked awesome.
i fell off that cliff a bajillion freekin times in the 1st turn.
so much i got pissed and put it away .
the controls are jacked just like before if not even more so.
Zoramon089
Banned
drohne said:
Lol you sound stupid and pissed off for no reason. How hard is it to understand that maybe SoTR is a better game than StH? I mean it's one thing for the fans to be saying it's a return to classic but when pretty much every single site with a preview of it is saying the same thing...
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
it's at the point now where you accept the change or don't, your "return to 1991" isn't happening, and thank god.
AniHawk said:
Though they're not THAT different, Blaze does change how you play through a level a fair bit. I've been playing Time-Attack mode recently, which can show you previous runs while you're running them, and you can see that Sonic is a lot faster, but his L+UP jump is poor compared to Blaze's. Blazes is huge, and you can find a lot of different ways through a level just with that. Plus her L+LEFT dash makes some ledges easier to get to.
Sonic was of course at the TGS, only on PS3 though, with a new demo looking and especially playing much better than the E3 one.
FYI: the demo on xbox live is a E3 Demo, these words above came from blimblim, and i trust him on it.
edit: Source http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3568_en.html
proceed.
FYI: the demo on xbox live is a E3 Demo, these words above came from blimblim, and i trust him on it.
edit: Source http://www.xboxyde.com/news_3568_en.html
proceed.
ivysaur12 said:
This is the second time I've seen someone say that in this thread, but considering I skipped 100 posts, I'm going to assume it's been said more...
but if anyone else says it, I'm going to have to kill one of you imbecilic morons that can't tell the difference between PANTY HOSES and BAD TANS!
RETARDS! PANTY HOSES! THEY EXIST! GO LOOK THEM UP!
*ahem*
Joe Molotov
Member
drohne said:
I think that's more of an indication of how much Sonic Team sucks now than anything to do with Nintendo. I mean, Sonic Adventure 2: Battle was sort of a GameCube exclusive, but that didn't stop it from sucking enormous balls.
RegularMK said:
Exactly. Sonic Heroes SHOULD have been a step in the right direction. It was fast. It had great looking levels (aesthetically). The plot was retarded in a good way. There was no princess Elise. It was just supposed to be fast fast fast.
The parts that messed it up were the terrible camera, clunky control, bad level design, and the 4 different teams. If it had just been Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles, it wouldn't have been so bad. Everything was great (basically, it had the FEEL of Sonic, just like Secret Rings does).
And whoever said those were panty hoses, I know, I was just commenting on how ridiculous they look.
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
I'm a fan of the new Sonic and the old school sonic, and heroes sucked on every way possible.
TekunoRobby
Tag of Excellence
Sega really knows how to make me happy. Nothing I look forward to more in a Sonic game than playing every character under the sun except for Sonic. I mean why bother making sure Sonic works well in 3D first. Why that kind of thinking is for amateurs.