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[ecosse_011172]

GAF's reaction to Skyward Sword never ceases to amaze me.

It's easily the best Zelda game as far as I'm concerned, and among my top games of the entirety of last generation. TP doesn't even come close.

Spoiler

Still pumped to play it again though. And just one day after my birthday!

The dungeons and visuals were wonderful but such a dull overworld, utterly lacking in any sense of exploration.

Interesting to read about Fi/Midna, I don’t remember Midna being anywhere near as annoying and I would never have expected that Midna interrupts more, maybe just having some character and charm made the difference.

 

[JumpCancel]

The reason people complain about that issue with Fi isn't that she interrupts you but that she spoils something. The way Fi handles it is better because she gives you a chance to figure it out. With Midna you definitely will be spoiled, with Fi you might not.

This isn't the first time this discussion has come up, and for past discussions I've compiled a list of every single required interaction with Midna and Fi for the first 3 areas of each game. Separate instances are considered to be separated by the player having control.

Total Midna interactions = 61

Total Fi interactions = 36

It's nice that we have a Fi apologist who makes the effort to support her. It's great for discussion. However you clearly have a bias towards Fi and seemingly against Minda, and don't seem to grasp why people dislike Fi.

Here's what you wrote regarding Minda:

Forest Temple

1. Midna tells you to follow the monkeys.
2. Midna tells you to keep following the monkeys.
3. Midna tells you to keep following the monkeys again.
4. Do you think you should follow the monkeys? Midna thinks so.
5. Midna gets the first fused shadow.

Then this interaction with Fi:

Faron Woods

1. When you reach Faron Woods, Fi introduces the area and recommends you keep dowsing.
2. When you save your first Kikwi, Fi tells you what it is and that the dowsing ability seems to be targeting it for some reason.
3. Once you catch the Kikwi,Fi marks it on your map and recommends you dowse to find the Kikwi elder.
4. The elder asks you to find 3 Kikwis. Fi updates your dowsing ability and asks if she needs to tell you how to change dowsing targets. (This one is skipable if you find the 3 Kikwis before you talk to the elder)
5. You find a Kikwi stuck in a tree. Fi tells you you can look at the controls menu if you need help coming up with ideas about how to get it down.
6. After rescuing the Kikwi, Fi marks it on your map.
7. After finding the 2nd Kikwi, Fi marks it on your map.
8. After you find the 3rd Kikwi, Fi tells you that's the last one and that you should return to the elder.

You added a sarcastic tone to your Minda example, when the Fi section in Faron Woods is arguably worse if not at least equal. After finding each Kiwi 2-3 minutes in between each other she prompts you to keep looking for more. Like I would stop. At least the monkeys in TP where in different rooms so you could let it slide since in between rooms in the dungeon you could take your time, or leave the dungeon all together. It wasn't as if the monkeys where all in the same room.

Notice how Fi backs off a ton after the first area while Midna keeps going full throttle. They both do the same things; Midna just does it more frequently at nearly double the rate of Fi. One thing I left off is that sometimes Midna will say something before letting you do a z-target wolf jump like "I think we can jump over here."

You are right that Minda and Fi both serve the same purpose and I don't believe anyone here was denying that or would disagree. However what you don't seem to accept is that Minda is a better character with some characterized dialogue. Fi is written with emotionless tone and robotic delivery. Minda actually shows charisma and emotion throughout the game, and for a guide that spouts exposition and aid I'd rather have the latter. Yes, TP tutorial is longer than SS, but my issue was the length not the interruptions from my companion. For me it never crossed my mind because I enjoyed Minda of at least could tolerate her. Fi comes off as uninteresting and useless.

"But JumpCancel, she is supposed to be blunt and robotic, you said so!"

It doesn't matter. It's your main companion throughout the game and they chose to give it a robotic voice. Sure she's a manifestation of the goddess sword, an objective unhuman tool but it doesn't mean that her intentional delivery of dialogue And exposition is something I have to like, solely because she serves the same purpose as previous companions. She is the worst companion and due to her tone it makes her uninteresting.
If you're going use a character to guide the player, instruct the player and inform the player they need to do so in an engaging way. All they are meant do do is spout information to the player, and other companions use their character to mask it.

Fi embraces it. She spouts all the information with no character, and I found it aggravating.

You list isn't a full comprehension of every interaction, so highlighting the first 3 areas to show one number is bigger than the other is rather pointless, since you also accept that interactions outside of story progression are through the "players control". Do they all last the same amount of time? What's the frequency in between each? A number means nothing. Everyone's experience is different, and establishing as base is a good starting point but clearly is isn't down to the number of times the companion speaks. It's an issue with the delivery and subject matter.

 

[Refreshment.01]

The dungeons and visuals were wonderful but such a dull overworld, utterly lacking in any sense of exploration.

Interesting to read about Fi/Midna, I don’t remember Midna being anywhere near as annoying and I would never have expected that Midna interrupts more, maybe just having some character and charm made the difference.

The numbers of times a character interrupts over the other is pretty much a meaningless statistic withouth proper context and withouth considering other important factors. For example, what's the lenght of each interruption? Or how abrupt and intrusive it is?

Setting aside the proclivity to overeact about things on the internet, there's a real reason why Fi got a lot of complains back from the game's first days of release upon today. And why Midna gets substantially less ones.

 

[BGBW]

Navi was seen as annoying just because she said "Hey, listen!" a lot which technically didn't even interrupt the game (she did pause the action on occasion).

 

[ecosse_011172]

The numbers of times a character interrupts over the other is pretty much a meaningless statistic withouth proper context and withouth considering other important factors. For example, what's the lenght of each interruption? Or how abrupt and intrusive it is?

Setting aside the proclivity to overeact about things on the internet, there's a real reason why Fi got a lot of complains back from the game's first days of release upon today. And why Midna gets substantially less ones.

Good point.

 

[RagnarokX]

It's nice that we have a Fi apologist who makes the effort to support her. It's great for discussion. However you clearly have a bias towards Fi and seemingly against Minda, and don't seem to grasp why people dislike Fi.

Here's what you wrote regarding Minda:

Then this interaction with Fi:

You added a sarcastic tone to your Minda example, when the Fi section in Faron Woods is arguably worse if not at least equal. After finding each Kiwi 2-3 minutes in between each other she prompts you to keep looking for more. Like I would stop. At least the monkeys in TP where in different rooms so you could let it slide since in between rooms in the dungeon you could take your time, or leave the dungeon all together. It wasn't as if the monkeys where all in the same room.

I wrote it that way because "Midna tells you to follow monkeys" 4 times felt a bit boring. Midna doesn't need to tell you to follow the monkeys any more than Fi needs to tell you to find the rest of the Kikwis, though the primary purpose of Fi's interaction in those instances is to inform you that she marked that Kikwi on your map. She does something rather than just making an observation, so it's slightly less of a sin. The monkeys beckon you to follow them, so Midna's involvement is totally pointless.

You are right that Minda and Fi both serve the same purpose and I don't believe anyone here was denying that or would disagree. However what you don't seem to accept is that Minda is a better character with some characterized dialogue. Fi is written with emotionless tone and robotic delivery. Minda actually shows charisma and emotion throughout the game, and for a guide that spouts exposition and aid I'd rather have the latter. Yes, TP tutorial is longer than SS, but my issue was the length not the interruptions from my companion. For me it never crossed my mind because I enjoyed Minda of at least could tolerate her. Fi comes off as uninteresting and useless.

The person I was replying to was implying that Fi may be annoying because she and Midna do different things, but the way they interrupt the player and what they interrupt the player with are fairly similar. They both stop you on their own and they both take part in cutscenes.

"But JumpCancel, she is supposed to be blunt and robotic, you said so!"

It doesn't matter. It's your main companion throughout the game and they chose to give it a robotic voice. Sure she's a manifestation of the goddess sword, an objective unhuman tool but it doesn't mean that her intentional delivery of dialogue And exposition is something I have to like, solely because she serves the same purpose as previous companions. She is the worst companion and due to her tone it makes her uninteresting.
If you're going use a character to guide the player, instruct the player and inform the player they need to do so in an engaging way. All they are meant do do is spout information to the player, and other companions use their character to mask it.

Fi embraces it. She spouts all the information with no character, and I found it aggravating.

Actually, Fi has a lot of character. One of the earliest interactions you have with her is when you find the first Kikwi you can ask her if it's Zelda:

"The probability of this life-form being Zelda is 5%, so I must conclude that this is, in fact, not Zelda but a peaceful forest creature known as a Kikwi. Kikwis are highly intelligent beings, capable of speech. Yes, upon further observation...clearly not Zelda."

5% chance of it being Zelda? Oh Fi.

She's supposed to come across as absurd. Her percentages are never 100% for things that should be 100%. She becomes less robotic over time. Her reaction to the robot pirate boss was a really nice touch.

You list isn't a full comprehension of every interaction, so highlighting the first 3 areas to show one number is bigger than the other is rather pointless, since you also accept that interactions outside of story progression are through the "players control". Everyone's experience is different, and establishing as base is a good starting point but clearly is isn't down to the number of times the companion speaks. It's an issue with the character and subject matter.

It's not pointless. The bulk of the annoying stuff is in the beginning of both games. Both Midna and Fi tone it down after the first 3 dungeons. The list is a comprehensive list of all of the required forced interactions from the beginnings of the games. The player control comment is to define that I counted interactions as separate based on if they are separated by the player having control; ie I did not count cutscenes with multiple parts as more than one. For example, Midna appearing before the light spirit appears, then the light spirit cutscene, then Midna interrupting you before you can take a step to repeat what the light spirit said counted as 1. Player-controlled interactions are a different thing and are up to the player. Of course it's not just the number of interactions, which is why I listed the content and context of every one.

The numbers of times a character interrupts over the other is pretty much a meaningless statistic withouth proper context and withouth considering other important factors. For example, what's the lenght of each interruption? Or how abrupt and intrusive it is?

Setting aside the proclivity to overeact about things on the internet, there's a real reason why Fi got a lot of complains back from the game's first days of release upon today. And why Midna gets substantially less ones.

Which is why I provided the context of every single one.

 

[JumpCancel]

I wrote it that way because "Midna tells you to follow monkeys" 4 times felt a bit boring. Midna doesn't need to tell you to follow the monkeys any more than Fi needs to tell you to find the rest of the Kikwis, though the primary purpose of Fi's interaction in those instances is to inform you that she marked that Kikwi on your map. She does something rather than just making an observation, so it's slightly less of a sin. The monkeys beckon you to follow them, so Midna's involvement is totally pointless.

The kiwi elder asks you to find 3 kiwis, yet Fi reminds you after each one to find another. Sure she marks in on your map, but the area is not dungeon sized nor complex enough to warrant marking its location. It's needless hand holding that doesn't need to happen.

Actually, Fi has a lot of character. One of the earliest interactions you have with her is when you find the first Kikwi you can ask her if it's Zelda:

"The probability of this life-form being Zelda is 5%, so I must conclude that this is, in fact, not Zelda but a peaceful forest creature known as a Kikwi. Kikwis are highly intelligent beings, capable of speech. Yes, upon further observation...clearly not Zelda."

5% chance of it being Zelda? Oh Fi.

She's supposed to come across as absurd. Her percentages are never 100% for things that should be 100%. She becomes less robotic over time. Her reaction to the robot pirate boss was a really nice touch.

I know throughout the game she becomes less and less robotic and develops a hint of character, but her overall tone remains the same. Your example is more the humor in her factual manner. Some find it appealing where I just found it as a shallow attempt at humor given the rigid character they created.

Ultimately this comes down to preference. I dislike SS as a game and for reason beyond Fi, so I admit I have a negative bias towards the game. However Fi's tone and context of interruptions, combined with their writing makes me tolerate her far less than other companions in past games. I felt she was the weakest and her role was in no way masked by her writing. You may see charm in the statistics she uses, I felt it dull and engaging.

I am glad to read that someone does enjoy her as a character, and willing to argue her values for a change.

 

[rex]

Ragnarok:

The problem you're having is you're compiling a list from some place on the Web without actually playing through the game and observing the differences.

As I pointed out, Midna doesn't interrupt you in the forest temple. Gameplay is stopped before she pops up without exception. So that's why people don't blame her. The developers are stopping the game to show cinematics and then midna appears.

Understanding the context as Refreshment points out is vital. That's why the raw text you've posted is essentially worthless and completely misleading.

 

[samn]

I actually kinda liked Fi as a character. The reason her interruptions are more annoying is you can't skip through the dialogue as quickly as TP by mashing A (I think).

 

[JumpCancel]

Ragnarok:

The problem you're having is you're compiling a list from some place on the Web without actually playing through the game and observing the differences.

As I pointed out, Midna doesn't interrupt you in the forest temple. Gameplay is stopped before she pops up without exception. So that's why people don't blame her. The developers are stopping the game to show cinematics and then midna appears.

Understanding the context as Refreshment points out is vital. That's why the raw text you've posted is essentially worthless and completely misleading.

I like you.

 

[RagnarokX]

The kiwi elder asks you to find 3 kiwis, yet Fi reminds you after each one to find another. Sure she marks in on your map, but the area is not dungeon sized nor complex enough to warrant marking its location. It's needless hand holding that doesn't need to happen.

Faron Woods is a really big area. Marking your map is good so that you don't go after Kikwis you already found. I think it even removes them as a dowsing target but I'm not sure. Fi has more reason to say something than Midna does as she is performing a service. You may argue how useful the service is, but it beats commenting for no reason at all.

Ragnarok:

The problem you're having is you're compiling a list from some place on the Web without actually playing through the game and observing the differences.

As I pointed out, Midna doesn't interrupt you in the forest temple. Gameplay is stopped before she pops up without exception. So that's why people don't blame her. The developers are stopping the game to show cinematics and then midna appears.

Understanding the context as Refreshment points out is vital. That's why the raw text you've posted is essentially worthless and completely misleading.

I played both games and I compiled my list from observing in-depth walkthroughs of both games, so no, I'm very aware of what the content of each game is.

Midna telling you to follow the monkeys is an unnecessary waste of time and handholding. By your standard the Kikwi comments JumpCancel compared them to don't count since Fi comes out after you already halted gameplay to talk to a Kikwi. But something doesn't have to interrupt you to be pointless and annoying. Both Midna and Fi interrupt you mid gameplay and both join in when gameplay is already paused. Midna does more of each.

What I posted isn't raw text. It's descriptions of the interactions that provide the context.

 

[FloweryMarston]

come on guys, in the end some of you felt that one or the other companion was better/worse. No amount of descriptions will change the way some feel about this. I never had problems with navi saying "hey listen" but people hated that, so it's completely subjective. At least the Zelda team take these complaints to heart and they try to change to a better solution

 

[smashballTaz]

I didn't find Fi as bad as most people, and you get a sense of the humour they were aiming for if you get her to give you info on specific things and objects. I remember being amused at her being 10% certain that a fairy is a type of bug.

Nintendo had loads better success at a charming robot character in Nintendoland, with the game's main guide. Nearly everything she (?) says is pretty amusing.

 

[Aostia]

Fi is very good as a character, and character design-wise. It is pretty annoying in terms of gameplay desing.
Midna on the other hand has a wonderful (double) design, it is a deeper character and gameplay-wise, together with Wolf Link, is great.
Soooooo, easy win for Midna.

 

[JumpCancel]

Faron Woods is a really big area. Marking your map is good so that you don't go after Kikwis you already found. I think it even removes them as a dowsing target but I'm not sure. Fi has more reason to say something than Midna does as she is performing a service. You may argue how useful the service is, but it beats commenting for no reason at all

Not argue as much disprove. Fi also performs a service of telling you if your hearts are low or when your shield integrity is too.

"Your hearts have decreased quite dramatically. Replenish some of your life at the earliest opportunity."

"The integrity of your shield has weakened. Be wary of the remaining durability of this item."

A function the game already serves with a health bar and Integrity meter. Now the frequency at which these comments occur escapes me, but the sheer notion that the companion can interrupt me, optional or not to inform me of information that I can see myself on screen is so asinine it makes no sense, unless it was designed for a young audience, which to me means it should have been an option for the game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

"Actually Fi has a lot of character"

Dude you have jumped the shark.

 

[Mr-Joker]

The reason Fi is hated on is because she lacks any personalty nor does she develop one throughout the game so her interruption comes across as annoying.

Midna on the other hands play a big role in the game story and in the game play as she's part of Wolf Link attack and she helps him jump across big gaps.

Personally I find it ironic that Nintendo didn't make Fi play a bigger role in Skywards Sword as she eventually becomes the fabled Master Sword so this is her origin story and our chance to connect with a sword that previously has been inanimate, but Nintendo for some reason opted not to do that and make her Navi 2.0.

TP is the result of a director who lost control of the project and thus Aonuma and Miyamoto had to swoop in a cobble together a game that at least flows. That's why stuff we saw in the early trailers cannot be found anywhere. That's why TP feels like a game of lost ambition, e.g. the resistance group being little more than signposts for the later dungeons.

I didn't know that, I wonder how the original director lost control and what happened to him.

 

[JumpCancel]

Personally I find it ironic that Nintendo didn't make Fi play a bigger role in Skywards Sword as she eventually becomes the fabled Master Sword so this is her origin story and our chance to connect with a sword that previously has been inanimate

Playing through Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time I never once thought I needed to connect with the sword more. That's what those games where missing.

Luckily Nintendo proved that that is an idea that should have remained on the concept buildings toilet floor. No Fi. Less talking, more slashing.

 

[RagnarokX]

Not argue as much disprove. Fi also performs a service of telling you if your hearts are low or when your shield integrity is too.

"Your hearts have decreased quite dramatically. Replenish some of your life at the earliest opportunity."

"The integrity of your shield has weakened. Be wary of the remaining durability of this item."

A function the game already serves with a health bar and Integrity meter. Now the frequency at which these comments occur escapes me, but the sheer notion that the companion can interrupt me, optional or not to inform me of information that I can see myself on screen is so asinine it makes no sense, unless it was designed for a young audience, which to me means it should have been an option for the game.

You never have to see either of those messages. Both of those require you to answer Fi's call. Especially in the case of hearts, this replaces the loud, harsh-sounding low-health beep noise from older games with Fi's softer beeping noise.

I don't think that quite disproves that interrupting you for some reason is better than interrupting you for no reason, and in the specific case we were discussing the service Fi performs is helpful.

"Actually Fi has a lot of character"

Dude you have jumped the shark.

And then I provided examples of her having character.

 

[TheMoon]

Guys, you need to realize that it's okay that you hate Fi and that others like her. It is not some objective fact that she has no character or personality so stop pretending that's the case. Her quirks just aren't as easily likable as tsundere Midna and her feistiness. Sometimes Midna's cool, sometimes she's annoying. Sometimes Fi's adorkable, sometime's she's annoying.

The important thing we learned a few days ago is that we can skip talking to Midna to transform which is fantastic. Boom there we go, happiness restored.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Actually, Fi has a lot of character. One of the earliest interactions you have with her is when you find the first Kikwi you can ask her if it's Zelda:

"The probability of this life-form being Zelda is 5%, so I must conclude that this is, in fact, not Zelda but a peaceful forest creature known as a Kikwi. Kikwis are highly intelligent beings, capable of speech. Yes, upon further observation...clearly not Zelda."

5% chance of it being Zelda? Oh Fi.

She's supposed to come across as absurd. Her percentages are never 100% for things that should be 100%. She becomes less robotic over time. Her reaction to the robot pirate boss was a really nice touch.

This wasn't conveyed particularly well. Especially since it was mixed in with battery warnings. And it was a 3D game where we're absolutely used to voice direction carrying a character compared to something like Undertale. I didn't mind Fi, (even said awh out loud when she said good luck after the final battle), but I can see why she got on people's nerves.

 

[JumpCancel]

Guys, you need to realize that it's okay that you hate Fi and that others like her. It is not some objective fact that she has no character or personality so stop pretending that's the case.

I think we all realize it's subjective. We're just discussing the merits of our arguments like professional humans

Spoiler

on a discussion forum.

This wasn't conveyed particularly well. Especially since it was mixed in with battery warnings.

"The probability of this life-form being Zelda is 5%, so I must conclude that this Wiimotes batteries are running low. Yes, upon further observation...clearly not Zelda."

 

[WrenchNinja]

And then I provided examples of her having character.

Nothing in the games actually shows her growing any humanity. Where does she grow over time? Instances with the Scrapper and Skipper? Unfunny percentage comments? This is a lot of character to you? Your examples are barely anything. This is a thirty hour game.

In your effort to defend skyward sword's honour, you might want to stick with your intrusion facts instead of saying something ridiculous. Linebeck, ST Zelda, Ezlo, and Midna they've got a lot of character. Even Tatl and the King of Red Lions have something to them. For someone who the game is literally titled for, she has a laughably bad presence in the game.

 

[RagnarokX]

Guys, you need to realize that it's okay that you hate Fi and that others like her. It is not some objective fact that she has no character or personality so stop pretending that's the case. Her quirks just aren't as easily likable as tsundere Midna and her feistiness. Sometimes Midna's cool, sometimes she's annoying. Sometimes Fi's adorkable, sometime's she's annoying.

The important thing we learned a few days ago is that we can skip talking to Midna to transform which is fantastic. Boom there we go, happiness restored.

Yeah. My point isn't that Fi is better or anything like that. I like Midna better as a character personally and neither Midna nor Fi annoyed me. I just find it strange that TP has more of stuff that people give SS crap for. For me I saw SS as a big improvement due to the amount of fat it trimmed following TP. Always could have been better. Just make the help optional altogether. But an improvement's an improvement. TP's problems are less Midna and more the structure of the game itself. Still has a great story and dungeons, though.

Nothing in the games actually shows her growing any humanity. Where does she grow over time? Instances with the Scrapper and Skipper? Unfunny percentage comments? This is a lot of character to you? Your examples are barely anything. This is a thirty hour game.

In your effort to defend skyward sword's honour, you might want to stick with your intrusion facts instead of saying something ridiculous. Linebeck, ST Zelda, Ezlo, and Midna they've got a lot of character. Even Tatl and the King of Red Lions have something to them. For someone who the game is literally titled for, she has a laughably bad presence in the game.

Heaven forbid I use some hyperbole in a discussion where the person I was responding to made the hyperbolic statement that she had "no character". Her interactions with Link, Scrapper, Skipper, and pirate boss do give her character. Her main character trait is that she provides percentages that are often humorous in how unnecessarily uncertain they are. She's a computer but not very good at observation.

Some more good Fi moments:

"Master, your interest in this young woman is clear. I can see your aura shining brightly with joy in her presence. ...I strongly recommend that you do not mention this when you next encounter Zelda."

"My analysis indicates a 90% chance that this is a Fairy. I calculate a 10% chance that this is a rare or previously undiscovered insect."

 

[-Horizon-]

I liked Fi and Midna :/

 

[JumpCancel]

Ezlo.

Now we are talking S tier companions. Having a sword talk is one thing, but having a wizard turned into a hat that becomes a staple of the protagonists outfit?

We're done here; Minish Cap is the true start of the timeline.

 

[TheMoon]

I liked Fi and Midna :/

Same.

Now let's have a fight to the death about the sidequest minigames. Uuugh that base jumping. Uuuugh that Monkey Ball-like.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Heaven forbid I use some hyperbole in a discussion where the person I was responding to made the hyperbolic statement that she had "no character".

In a game that has Groose in it, someone who actually changes over the course of the game and who actually has character, "No character" is a lot closer to what she has.

 

[TheMoon]

In a game that has Groose in it, someone who actually changes over the course of the game and who actually has character, "No character" is a lot closer to what she has.

Reposting since you seem to have missed the hint that this was triggered by your post specifically.

Guys, you need to realize that it's okay that you hate Fi and that others like her. It is not some objective fact that she has no character or personality so stop pretending that's the case. Her quirks just aren't as easily likable as tsundere Midna and her feistiness. Sometimes Midna's cool, sometimes she's annoying. Sometimes Fi's adorkable, sometime's she's annoying.

The important thing we learned a few days ago is that we can skip talking to Midna to transform which is fantastic. Boom there we go, happiness restored.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Now we are talking S tier companions. Having a sword talk is one thing, but having a wizard turned into a hat that becomes a staple of the protagonists outfit?

We're done here; Minish Cap is the true start of the timeline.

Yup Ezlo was a great character. Berated you like a grandpa and had a lot of charm too. Integral to the story of the game as well. I still love that animation Link does whenever Ezlo tries to talk to him.

 

[JumpCancel]

Yup Ezlo was a great character. Berated you like a grandpa and had a lot of charm too. Integral to the story of the game as well. I still love that animation Link does whenever Ezlo tries to talk to him.

"You know, you and I have a lot in common. You see, I, too, am on a quest to break a curse of Vaati's. And you say that reforging the sacred blade can break his curse, eh? Well, then you have found yourself a companion, my boy! My name is Ezlo. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance."

And guess what? Unless prompted he remains silent. A simple press of "Select" will make Ezlo remark a comment or hint. No noise to remind you he's there as he's always on your head.

Fucking genius. I love Ezlo.

 

[rex]

Yeah. My point isn't that Fi is better or anything like that. I like Midna better as a character personally and neither Midna nor Fi annoyed me. I just find it strange that TP has more of stuff that people give SS crap for. For me I saw SS as a big improvement due to the amount of fat it trimmed following TP. Always could have been better. Just make the help optional altogether. But an improvement's an improvement. TP's problems are less Midna and more the structure of the game itself. Still has a great story and dungeons, though.

And yet you don't seem to have any interest in trying to understand why people feel that way.

The fact that you actually compiled your list from a play through astonishes me since you basically managed to miss why Midna doesn't generate the type of antipathy Fi does.

From Skyward Sword's second dungeon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfHYuGuDo4Q&feature=youtu.be&t=198

This is the trifecta. Fi popping up out of nowhere. Fi saying something completely worthless. And to top it all off the writing sucks because the choice to go with a robot character basically guaranteed it was going to suck.

And if you're trying to understand why there are differences in reaction to the two characters you can't just ignore that Midna, if the first dungeon is any indication, doesn't interrupt the gameplay.

Of course, what Midna says and what clues she's conveying and how it's written are also important too. And I don't see any missteps here. Remember, TP's first dungeon is far more complex than SS is. The monkeys open the pathways through the dungeon but they are an indirect item. They are triggered by the player using actual items and interacting with the dungeon in a more normal way.

It's helpful for Nintendo to convey what those little guys are doing. Every small cinematic and Midna appearance reinforces this component of overall dungeon design. I don't have any issue with any stoppage during the first dungeon, which probably amounted to less than ten over an hour long temple.

 

[TheMoon]

From Skyward Sword's second dungeon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfHYuGuDo4Q&feature=youtu.be&t=198

This is the trifecta. Fi popping up out of nowhere. Fi saying something completely worthless. And to top it all off the writing sucks because the choice to go with a robot character basically guaranteed it was going to suck.

Nope.

She's informing you about the "Z-target+press Down to get info on enemy" feature since those Lizalfos are a more tricky enemy type to fight than what you encountered before.

 

[JumpCancel]

For me I saw SS as a big improvement due to the amount of fat it trimmed following TP. Always could have been better. Just make the help optional altogether. But an improvement's an improvement. TP's problems are less Midna and more the structure of the game itself.

Fat it trimmed? Do you class fat as an overworld that actually has content in comparison to a few chests on a small landmass in the sky? Making levels more linear in favor of wider spaces? Could you elaborate on that for us please.

Skyward Swords world felt severely disjointed (Can be said it's due to the world below the sky being uninhabited and untouched). I should have been able to go from each area to one another, instead of having to return to the sky, fly to another zone and drop down. Heaven forbid you need to warp to another area within the zone your in. Time to go back to the sky, fly back around to the drop point you came from and go back down.

I won't go further until I understand what you meant by "trimmed fat".

 

[rex]

Nope.

She's informing you about the "Z-target+press Down to get info on enemy" feature since those Lizalfos are a more tricky enemy type to fight than what you encountered before.

Mostly worthless!

 

[WrenchNinja]

"You know, you and I have a lot in common. You see, I, too, am on a quest to break a curse of Vaati's. And you say that reforging the sacred blade can break his curse, eh? Well, then you have found yourself a companion, my boy! My name is Ezlo. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance."

And guess what? Unless prompted he remains silent. A simple press of "Select" will make Ezlo remark a comment or hint. No noise to remind you he's there as he's always on your head.

Fucking genius. I love Ezlo.

He says all that, notices he's too slow, plops himself on your head without asking and Link just has that incredulous look on his face. So good.

 

[JumpCancel]

He says all that, notices he's too slow, plops himself on your head without asking and Link just has that incredulous look on his face. So good.

I forgot about that. That scene has so much whimsy and it executed it perfectly. All that in a GBA game.

Skyward Sword spends the first hour showing you how Zelda has a personality and is so likable when you've got Ezlo. A wizard turned into a hat who sits on your damn head for the whole game, while being a grumpy bastard, and executes his introduction in under 5 minutes.

A Game Story need not be so bloated.

 

[TheMoon]

Fat it trimmed? Do you class fat as an overworld that actually has content in comparison to a few chests on a small landmass in the sky? Making levels more linear in favor of wider spaces? Could you elaborate on that for us please.

Skyward Swords world felt severely disjointed (Can be said it's due to the world below the sky being uninhabited and untouched). I should have been able to go from each area to one another, instead of having to return to the sky, fly to another zone and drop down. Heaven forbid you need to warp to another area within the zone your in. Time to go back to the sky, fly back around to the drop point you came from and go back down.

I won't go further until I understand what you meant by "trimmed fat".

You guys were talking about Assist NPC interactions the entire time. Trimmed fat refers to this obviously. He made that pretty clear with the list of interactions which shows the number's been almost halved in SS for the first three areas.

Don't turn this into the "barren, disjointed overworld" argument now. Might as well point out how barren and empty Hyrule Field is in TP with the interesting bits being the occasional hidden cave in some walls while SS made traversing each area part of the core gameplay loop with actual puzzles. Again, one does thing A better, the other does thing B better.

 

[MarkMclovin]

I liked Fi and Midna :/

Nope sorry that ain't gonna fly.

You have to pick a side.

 

[JumpCancel]

You guys were talking about Assist NPC interactions the entire time. Trimmed fat refers to this obviously. He made that pretty clear with the list of interactions which shows the number's been almost halved in SS for the first three areas.

Don't turn this into the "barren, disjointed overworld" argument now. Might as well point out how barren and empty Hyrule Field is in TP with the interesting bits being the occasional hidden cave in some walls while SS made traversing each area part of the core gameplay loop with actual puzzles. Again, one does thing A better, the other does thing B better.

Ragnarok mentioned TP problems were more down to the games structure than Minda, so I took the volley and responded.

TP's overworld isn't ripe with content, but it has more to than the skyworld. This isn't two interpretations of the same game, they are different and each have strengths and weakness. I am advocating the side of TP, that's all.

"Trimming Fat" isn't lowering the amount of instances, it needs to factor length too. Fi could interrupt less often, but each lasts longer. Text speed is also slower in SS, that takes up more time, especially if you've the reading comprehension of a human above the age of 4.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I just know that I liked Skyward Sword despite its problems and didn't mind Fi nearly as much as everybody else it seems. I'd be quite happy with Fujibayashi directing Zelda U.

 

[PtM]

Nope sorry that ain't gonna fly.

You have to pick a side.

I pick the outside of the "bad support" dumpster. You keep debating who's less bad, they're still both bad.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Nope.

She's informing you about the "Z-target+press Down to get info on enemy" feature since those Lizalfos are a more tricky enemy type to fight than what you encountered before.

That's the game's second dungeon. By that time you have experienced every possible use of "Z targetting" and fought a variey of different enemy types.

That's why i said "Context" was needed, more than a list of the number of occasions the companion speaks. Is not about the number but the manner and the reasons for the intrusions.

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is the "redundant nature" of Fi's interventions. She stops the game to repeat the same piece of information stated earlier or to downright point the obvious. i don't know if any other Zelda companion is gulity of that sin as much as Fi is.

Do you guys remember the infamous "Dungeon Door" comment? In no other Zelda game you see things like that.

 

[JumpCancel]

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is the "redundant nature" of Fi's interventions. She stops the game to repeat the same piece of information stated earlier or to downright point the obvious. i don't know if any other Zelda companion is gulity of that sin as much as Fi is.

Do you guys remember the infamous "Dungeon Door" comment? In no other Zelda game you see thinks like that.

I mentioned her function, optional or not to inform the player of their low health or low shield integrity. Why even have that be possible? It's part of the damn HUD. Did they think it was possible for someone to be unable to read the HUD correctly and require the companion to inform you?

A lot of it is as you've said, information that is known or easily deducible. It's hand holding of the worse kind. And it's presented in factual, black and white dialogue which only serves to twist the knife.

Also by the door comment did you mean outside the skyveiw Temple where she asks:

"I have also detected the presence of numerous monsters. Are you sure you want to proceed?"

I forgot about the transparent dialogue trees. Christ.

 

[TheMoon]

That's the game's second dungeon. By that time you have experienced every possible use of "Z targetting" and fought a variey of different enemy types.

That's why i said "Context" was needed, more than a list of the number of occasions the companion speaks. Is not about the number but the manner and the reasons for the intrusions.

And the context is there. This is the very first time you encounter this enemy type which is a more complex enemy than the standard Bokoblin with their easy to decipher "hold arm in one of 4 positions to block" pattern. This is why Fi tells you about her "enemy tip" feature at this point which you can then choose to ignore.

 

[rex]

That's the game's second dungeon. By that time you have experienced every possible use of "Z targetting" and fought a variey of different enemy types.

That's why i said "Context" was needed, more than a list of the number of occasions the companion speaks. Is not about the number but the manner and the reasons for the intrusions.

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion is the "redundant nature" of Fi's interventions. She stops the game to repeat the same piece of information stated earlier or to downright point the obvious. i don't know if any other Zelda companion is gulity of that sin as much as Fi is.

Do you guys remember the infamous "Dungeon Door" comment? In no other Zelda game you see thinks like that.

Yea those are good points. It seems odd to let the player fight enemies that demand different types of sword swings, including the stalfos, and then, having allowed the player to take all that stuff on, suddenly pull the reins back on them.

Also, the enemies there perfectly convey all the info the player needs through the exaggerated design of their arm guards as well as their behavior. There's not much need for anything else.

I don't really like optional advice either when it's accompanied by a flashing icon. I think even that can be distracting. But even that would be preferable to this.

 

[takriel]

And the context is there. This is the very first time you encounter this enemy type which is a more complex enemy than the standard Bokoblin with their easy to decipher "hold arm in one of 4 positions to block" pattern. This is why Fi tells you about her "enemy tip" feature at this point which you can then choose to ignore.

It's still a bit too intrusive for my liking. Stop interrupting the gameplay and find other, smarter ways to convey information instead.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Can't wait for the inevitable Skyward Sword remaster that cuts a lot of Fi's unnecessary intrusions.

I like Fi but I liked Midna more. Also her theme was great. Skyward Sword had great music all around.

 

[TheMoon]

It's still a bit too intrusive for my liking. Stop interrupting the gameplay and find other, smarter ways to convey information instead.

I don't think anybody here would not be happier if it just weren't there.

Now I just wanna play Skyward Sword again after watching that Lizalfos video lol

 

[dampflokfreund]

Is that the case? Then whoever was in charge of Lanaryu should be in charge of future Zelda titles. That part was the highlight of the game, every other area just felt off.

Yes, exactly. I've wondered myself why Lanayru Desert felt like a complete different game to the rest, the difference was that dramatic. This area had depth, good story, memoryable moments and much more I love from Zelda, while the other areas felt completely flat. I really hope the Desert team is on Zelda U.