Metroiddarks
Member
Me after a reply in another thread
Looks like some people know more of me than myself
Looks like some people know more of me than myself
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- Status
Farrell55
Banned
Same goes for Gears of War 4 for example like many other xbox one Titles
Farrell55
Banned
Thx for the Translation
Looks like the War is Over
"As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who can outperform the PlayStation 5 from the Xbox X-Series. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible. "
Here are a few points According to the Interview (crytek dev)
*Sony has the Far more advanced API/Tool set*
*In the most cases ps5 will perform better*
*almost zero load times compared to the 4 to 5sec from xbox sx*
*overall the ps5 is the better console*
*xbox sx will have an Resolution advantage in some games*
Last edited:
Aceofspades
Banned
rnlval is the type who write lots of words just to sound expert while being far from it. You remind me of Jeff Rigby or whatever was his name here 
Metroiddarks
Member
I wish they had asked him how superior is XSX to PS5 in raytracing? 
rnlval
Member
Thx for the Translation
Looks like the War is Over
⬇⬇⬇ Here are a few points ⬇⬇⬇
According to the Interview (crytek dev)
*Sony has the Far more advanced API/Tool set*
*In the most cases ps5 will perform better*
*almost zero load times compared to the 4 to 5sec from xbox sx*
*overall the ps5 is the better console*
*xbox sx will have an Resolution advantage in some games*
EA DICE on API comparison.
XBO DirectX12 has higher efficiency when compared to PC's DirectX12.
Why? More CUs means better at ray tracing , the effect of the moment .I wish they had asked him how superior is XSX to PS5 in raytracing?
rnlval
Member
Do you want to start a flame war then?rnlval is the type who write lots of words just to sound expert while being far from it. You remind me of Jeff Rigby or whatever was his name here
Rusco Da Vino
Member
Full Interview
Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek, talking about PS5/XSX
Translation by benjohn, a native Farsi speaker.
Disclaimer: Dont quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call MicroSoft
Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek, talking about PS5/XSX
Translation by benjohn, a native Farsi speaker.
INTRO
The hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X were officially announced a few weeks ago by Sony and Microsoft, and Digital Foundry had the opportunity to take a deep technical look at what we expect. Although there aren't many games for consoles yet, and we don't know much about their overall performance and user experience, the two companies are constantly competing in technical and complex debates that no one but engineers and programmers can understand. Providing the deepest technical information is not avoided this time around.
As we tracked down the information and read the specifications and were searching for more information on the matter, it seemed better to talk with an engineer and programmer at Crytek, one of the world's most tech-savvy companies, with a powerful gaming engine. That's why I called Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer from Crytek, and asked him, as an expert, to answer our questions about Xbox Traflops adavtages over PS5 and the power of the consoles, and to comment on which one is more powerful. Convincing answers with simple and understandable explanations that were contrary to expectations and numbers on paper.
In the following, you will read the conversation between Mohsen Vafnejad and Shayan Ziaei with Ali Salehi about the hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.
INTERVIEW
[Questions bolded, answers not]
Vijayato: In short, what is the job of a rendering engineer in a gaming company?
Ali Salehi: The technical visual section of each game is what we do. That means supporting new consoles, optimizing current algorithms, troubleshooting current ones, implementing new technology and features like RayTracing are somethings we do.
What is the significance of Teraflops, and does higher Teraflops mean a console is stronger?
Teraflops shows that this processor can be as efficient if it is in the best and most ideal state possible. The Teraflops figure is in ideal and theoretical conditions. In practice, however, the graphics card and console are a complex entities that rarely get to their fullest potential. Several elements must work together in harmony to provide each part of the feed to the other and output one part to another. If each of these elements fails to work properly, the efficiency of the other part will decrease. A good example of this is the PlayStation 3 console. Because of its SPUs, the PlayStation 3 had a lot more power on paper than the Xbox 360. But in practice, because of its complex architecture and bottlenecked Memory and other problems, you never reached the peak of efficiency.
There is an image here with following
[Woes of PlayStation 3
The PlayStation 3 had a hard time running multi-platform games compared to the Xbox 360. Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV, for example, ran at 720p on the Microsoft console, but the PlayStation 3 had a poorer output and eventually up scaled the resolution to 720p. But Sony's own studios have been able to offer more detailed games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 2 and 3 due to their greater familiarity with the console and the development of special software accessibility.]
That is why it is not a good idea to base our opinions only on numbers. But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. In addition to all this, we also have a software section. The example is the advent of of Vulkan and DirectX 12. The hardware did not change, but due to the change in the architecture of the software, the hardware could be better put in use.
The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles.
How have you experienced working with both consoles and how do you evaluate them?
I can't say anything right now about my own work, but I'm quoting others who have made a public statement. Developers say that the PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they’ve ever coded for. so they can reach the console's peak performance. In terms of software, coding on the PlayStation 5 is extremely simple and has many features which leave a lot of options for developers. All in all, the PlayStation 5 is a better console.
If I understood correctly, is Traflaps the final defining factor over GPU power? Or what do these floating points mean? How would you describe it for a user who doesn't understand all of these?
I think it was a bad PR move to put all these information out. This technical information does not matter to the average user and is not a final judgement over GPU power.
Graphics cards, for example, have 20 different sections, one of which is Compute Units, which performs the processing. If the rest of the components are best put to use in the best possible way, and there are no other restrictions, there is not bottleneck in memory, and as long as the processor has the necessary information, 12 Tflops can be achieved. So in an ideal world where we remove all the limiting parameters, that's possible, but it's not. ( he means we cannot remove all bottlenecks and 12 Tflpos only remains on paper)
A good example of this is the Xbox Series X hardware. Microsoft two seprate pools of Ram. The same mistake that they made over Xbox one. One pool of RAM has high bandwidth and the other pool of RAM has lower bandwidth. As a result, coding for the console is sometimes problematic. Because the total number of things we have to put in the faster pool RAM is so much that it will be annoying again, and add insult to injury the 4k output needs even more bandwidth. So there will be some factors which bottleneck XSX’s GPU.
You talked about the CUs. The PlayStation 5 now has 36 CUs, and the Xbox Series X has 52 CUs are available to the developer. What is the difference?
The main difference is that the working frequency of the PlayStation 5 is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same. An interesting analogy from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X GPU is like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is like turbocharged 6- cylinder engine. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of benefits, such as the memory management, rasterization, and other elements of the GPU whose performance is related to the frequency not CU count. So in some scenarios PlayStation 5's GPU works faster than the Series X. That's what makes the console GPU to work even more frequently on the announced peak 10.28 Teraflops. But for the Series X, because the rest of the elements are slower, it will not probably reach its 12 Teraflops most of the time, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions.
Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?
No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same. But generally speaking XSX must have less trouble pushing more pixels. (He emphasizes on “only” pixels)
Sony says the smaller the number of CUs, the more you can integrate the tasks. What does Sony's claim mean?
It costs resources to use all the CUs at the same time. Because CUs need resources that are allocated to the GPU when they want to run code. If the GPU fails to distribute all the resources on all the CUs to execute a code, it will be forced to drop a number of CUs in use. For example, instead of 52, use 20 of them because GPU doesn't have enough resources for all CUs at all times.
Aware of this, Sony has used a faster GPU instead of a larger GPU to reduce allocation costs. A more striking example of this was in the CPUs. AMD has had high-core CPUs for a long time. Intels on the other hand has used less core but faster ones. Intel CPUs with less cores but faster ones perform better in Gaming. Clearly, a 16- or 32-core CPU has a higher number of Teraflops, but a CPU with a faster core will definitely do a better job. Because it's hard for gamers and programmers to use all the cores all the time, they prefer to have fewer cores but faster.
Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?
Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first.
Can you elaborate?
That is, the analysis requires very accurate code execution. So it's not something everyone knows right now. There are now much more important concerns for recognizing console hardware, and developers are likely to work with a smaller number of cores at the beginning of the next generation, but with a higher clock, and then move on to use SMT (Hyperthreading).
The 3328 Shader is available in the Xbox Series X Computing Unit. What is a Shader?, what does it do, and what does 3328 Shaders mean?
When developers want to execute code, they do so through units called Wavefront. Multiply the number of CUs by the number of Wavefronts and you have the number of shaders. But it doesn't really matter, and everything I said about the CUs applies here. Again, there are limitations that make all of these shaders unusable, and having many of them all at once aren't necessarily good.
There is another important issue to consider, as Mark Cerny put it. CUs or even Traflaps are not necessarily the same between all architectures. That is, Teraflops cannot be compared between devices and decide which one is actually numerically superior. So you can't trust these numbers and call it a day.
Comparisons between Android devices and Apple iPhones have also recently risen analogous to consoles, with Internet discussions suggesting that Android users have higher RAM but poorer performance than iPhones. Is the comparison between the two with the consoles correct?
Software stacks that are placed on top of the hardware determine everything. As performance updates increase exponentially, so do they. Sony has always had better software because Microsoft has to use Windows. So that's right.
Microsoft has insisted that the Xbox Series X frequency is constant under any circumstances, but Sony does not have such an approach and provides the console with a certain amount of energy to use it as a variable and depending on the situation. What are the differences between the two and which will be better for the developer?
What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
Doesn't this freedom of action make things harder for the developer?
Not really, because we're already doing that on the engine. For example, the Dynamic Resolution Scaling technique used by some games is now measuring different elements and measuring how much the GPU is under pressure and how low the resolution should be kept to be fixed on the frame. So it's very easy to connect these together.
What is the use of the geometry engine or Geometry Engine that Sony is talking about?
I don't think it will be very useful in the first year or two. We'll probably see more of an impact for the second wave of games released on this console, but it doesn't have much use at the start.
The Series X chipset is 7 nanometers, and we know that the smaller the number, the better the chipset. Are you exploring the nanometer and transistors?
Lowering the nanometer means more transistors and controlling their heat in large numbers and smaller spaces. A production technology is better and the number of nanometers is not very important, what matters is the number of transistors.
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?
The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background.
How will the games on PC be in the meantime? Because having an SSD is a choice for a PC user.
Consoles have always determined what the standard is. Game developers also build games based on consoles, and if someone has a PC and doesn't have an SSD on it, they have to deal with long loads or think about buying an SSD.
As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who chooses XBX over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible.
--
Original Source Captutes:
www.neogaf.com
Original Source Link:
vigiato.net
The hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X were officially announced a few weeks ago by Sony and Microsoft, and Digital Foundry had the opportunity to take a deep technical look at what we expect. Although there aren't many games for consoles yet, and we don't know much about their overall performance and user experience, the two companies are constantly competing in technical and complex debates that no one but engineers and programmers can understand. Providing the deepest technical information is not avoided this time around.
As we tracked down the information and read the specifications and were searching for more information on the matter, it seemed better to talk with an engineer and programmer at Crytek, one of the world's most tech-savvy companies, with a powerful gaming engine. That's why I called Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer from Crytek, and asked him, as an expert, to answer our questions about Xbox Traflops adavtages over PS5 and the power of the consoles, and to comment on which one is more powerful. Convincing answers with simple and understandable explanations that were contrary to expectations and numbers on paper.
In the following, you will read the conversation between Mohsen Vafnejad and Shayan Ziaei with Ali Salehi about the hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.
INTERVIEW
[Questions bolded, answers not]
Vijayato: In short, what is the job of a rendering engineer in a gaming company?
Ali Salehi: The technical visual section of each game is what we do. That means supporting new consoles, optimizing current algorithms, troubleshooting current ones, implementing new technology and features like RayTracing are somethings we do.
What is the significance of Teraflops, and does higher Teraflops mean a console is stronger?
Teraflops shows that this processor can be as efficient if it is in the best and most ideal state possible. The Teraflops figure is in ideal and theoretical conditions. In practice, however, the graphics card and console are a complex entities that rarely get to their fullest potential. Several elements must work together in harmony to provide each part of the feed to the other and output one part to another. If each of these elements fails to work properly, the efficiency of the other part will decrease. A good example of this is the PlayStation 3 console. Because of its SPUs, the PlayStation 3 had a lot more power on paper than the Xbox 360. But in practice, because of its complex architecture and bottlenecked Memory and other problems, you never reached the peak of efficiency.
There is an image here with following
[Woes of PlayStation 3
The PlayStation 3 had a hard time running multi-platform games compared to the Xbox 360. Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV, for example, ran at 720p on the Microsoft console, but the PlayStation 3 had a poorer output and eventually up scaled the resolution to 720p. But Sony's own studios have been able to offer more detailed games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 2 and 3 due to their greater familiarity with the console and the development of special software accessibility.]
That is why it is not a good idea to base our opinions only on numbers. But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. In addition to all this, we also have a software section. The example is the advent of of Vulkan and DirectX 12. The hardware did not change, but due to the change in the architecture of the software, the hardware could be better put in use.
The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles.
How have you experienced working with both consoles and how do you evaluate them?
I can't say anything right now about my own work, but I'm quoting others who have made a public statement. Developers say that the PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they’ve ever coded for. so they can reach the console's peak performance. In terms of software, coding on the PlayStation 5 is extremely simple and has many features which leave a lot of options for developers. All in all, the PlayStation 5 is a better console.
If I understood correctly, is Traflaps the final defining factor over GPU power? Or what do these floating points mean? How would you describe it for a user who doesn't understand all of these?
I think it was a bad PR move to put all these information out. This technical information does not matter to the average user and is not a final judgement over GPU power.
Graphics cards, for example, have 20 different sections, one of which is Compute Units, which performs the processing. If the rest of the components are best put to use in the best possible way, and there are no other restrictions, there is not bottleneck in memory, and as long as the processor has the necessary information, 12 Tflops can be achieved. So in an ideal world where we remove all the limiting parameters, that's possible, but it's not. ( he means we cannot remove all bottlenecks and 12 Tflpos only remains on paper)
A good example of this is the Xbox Series X hardware. Microsoft two seprate pools of Ram. The same mistake that they made over Xbox one. One pool of RAM has high bandwidth and the other pool of RAM has lower bandwidth. As a result, coding for the console is sometimes problematic. Because the total number of things we have to put in the faster pool RAM is so much that it will be annoying again, and add insult to injury the 4k output needs even more bandwidth. So there will be some factors which bottleneck XSX’s GPU.
You talked about the CUs. The PlayStation 5 now has 36 CUs, and the Xbox Series X has 52 CUs are available to the developer. What is the difference?
The main difference is that the working frequency of the PlayStation 5 is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same. An interesting analogy from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X GPU is like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is like turbocharged 6- cylinder engine. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of benefits, such as the memory management, rasterization, and other elements of the GPU whose performance is related to the frequency not CU count. So in some scenarios PlayStation 5's GPU works faster than the Series X. That's what makes the console GPU to work even more frequently on the announced peak 10.28 Teraflops. But for the Series X, because the rest of the elements are slower, it will not probably reach its 12 Teraflops most of the time, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions.
Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?
No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same. But generally speaking XSX must have less trouble pushing more pixels. (He emphasizes on “only” pixels)
Sony says the smaller the number of CUs, the more you can integrate the tasks. What does Sony's claim mean?
It costs resources to use all the CUs at the same time. Because CUs need resources that are allocated to the GPU when they want to run code. If the GPU fails to distribute all the resources on all the CUs to execute a code, it will be forced to drop a number of CUs in use. For example, instead of 52, use 20 of them because GPU doesn't have enough resources for all CUs at all times.
Aware of this, Sony has used a faster GPU instead of a larger GPU to reduce allocation costs. A more striking example of this was in the CPUs. AMD has had high-core CPUs for a long time. Intels on the other hand has used less core but faster ones. Intel CPUs with less cores but faster ones perform better in Gaming. Clearly, a 16- or 32-core CPU has a higher number of Teraflops, but a CPU with a faster core will definitely do a better job. Because it's hard for gamers and programmers to use all the cores all the time, they prefer to have fewer cores but faster.
Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?
Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first.
Can you elaborate?
That is, the analysis requires very accurate code execution. So it's not something everyone knows right now. There are now much more important concerns for recognizing console hardware, and developers are likely to work with a smaller number of cores at the beginning of the next generation, but with a higher clock, and then move on to use SMT (Hyperthreading).
The 3328 Shader is available in the Xbox Series X Computing Unit. What is a Shader?, what does it do, and what does 3328 Shaders mean?
When developers want to execute code, they do so through units called Wavefront. Multiply the number of CUs by the number of Wavefronts and you have the number of shaders. But it doesn't really matter, and everything I said about the CUs applies here. Again, there are limitations that make all of these shaders unusable, and having many of them all at once aren't necessarily good.
There is another important issue to consider, as Mark Cerny put it. CUs or even Traflaps are not necessarily the same between all architectures. That is, Teraflops cannot be compared between devices and decide which one is actually numerically superior. So you can't trust these numbers and call it a day.
Comparisons between Android devices and Apple iPhones have also recently risen analogous to consoles, with Internet discussions suggesting that Android users have higher RAM but poorer performance than iPhones. Is the comparison between the two with the consoles correct?
Software stacks that are placed on top of the hardware determine everything. As performance updates increase exponentially, so do they. Sony has always had better software because Microsoft has to use Windows. So that's right.
Microsoft has insisted that the Xbox Series X frequency is constant under any circumstances, but Sony does not have such an approach and provides the console with a certain amount of energy to use it as a variable and depending on the situation. What are the differences between the two and which will be better for the developer?
What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
Doesn't this freedom of action make things harder for the developer?
Not really, because we're already doing that on the engine. For example, the Dynamic Resolution Scaling technique used by some games is now measuring different elements and measuring how much the GPU is under pressure and how low the resolution should be kept to be fixed on the frame. So it's very easy to connect these together.
What is the use of the geometry engine or Geometry Engine that Sony is talking about?
I don't think it will be very useful in the first year or two. We'll probably see more of an impact for the second wave of games released on this console, but it doesn't have much use at the start.
The Series X chipset is 7 nanometers, and we know that the smaller the number, the better the chipset. Are you exploring the nanometer and transistors?
Lowering the nanometer means more transistors and controlling their heat in large numbers and smaller spaces. A production technology is better and the number of nanometers is not very important, what matters is the number of transistors.
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?
The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background.
How will the games on PC be in the meantime? Because having an SSD is a choice for a PC user.
Consoles have always determined what the standard is. Game developers also build games based on consoles, and if someone has a PC and doesn't have an SSD on it, they have to deal with long loads or think about buying an SSD.
As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who chooses XBX over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible.
--
Original Source Captutes:
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
Me after a reply in another thread Looks like some people know more of me than myself
Original Source Link:
بازی، سرگرمی، فیلم، سریال، انیمه و انیمیشن - ویجیاتو
با دوستات دور هم بازی کن. هدف ویجیاتو سرگرم نگه داشتن تو و دادن اطلاعات ارزشمند از بازی های ویدیویی، سینما، تلویزیون و انواع سرگرمی های باحال مثل کمیک بوک هاست %
vigiato.net
Disclaimer: Dont quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call MicroSoft
Last edited:
Farrell55
Banned
It doesnt matter, ps5's Api has more efficiency that xbox version of directXEA DICE on API comparison.
XBO DirectX12 has higher efficiency when compared to PC's DirectX12.
in case you haven't noticed, its a comparison between ps5 & xbox sx
And Not xbox sx to pc
Last edited:
Metroiddarks
Member
Yes I agree but also I want to know other things which can affect like memory speed, gpu clocks or some specific modification done by any company in their SoC.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Full Interview
Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek, talking about PS5/XSX
Translation by benjohn, a native Farsi speaker.
INTRO
The hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X were officially announced a few weeks ago by Sony and Microsoft, and Digital Foundry had the opportunity to take a deep technical look at what we expect. Although there aren't many games for consoles yet, and we don't know much about their overall performance and user experience, the two companies are constantly competing in technical and complex debates that no one but engineers and programmers can understand. Providing the deepest technical information is not avoided this time around.
As we tracked down the information and read the specifications and were searching for more information on the matter, it seemed better to talk with an engineer and programmer at Crytek, one of the world's most tech-savvy companies, with a powerful gaming engine. That's why I called Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer from Crytek, and asked him, as an expert, to answer our questions about Xbox Traflops adavtages over PS5 and the power of the consoles, and to comment on which one is more powerful. Convincing answers with simple and understandable explanations that were contrary to expectations and numbers on paper.
In the following, you will read the conversation between Mohsen Vafnejad and Shayan Ziaei with Ali Salehi about the hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.
INTERVIEW
[Questions bolded, answers not]
Vijayato: In short, what is the job of a rendering engineer in a gaming company?
Ali Salehi: The technical visual section of each game is what we do. That means supporting new consoles, optimizing current algorithms, troubleshooting current ones, implementing new technology and features like RayTracing are somethings we do.
What is the significance of Teraflops, and does higher Teraflops mean a console is stronger?
Teraflops shows that this processor can be as efficient if it is in the best and most ideal state possible. The Teraflops figure is in ideal and theoretical conditions. In practice, however, the graphics card and console are a complex entities that rarely get to their fullest potential. Several elements must work together in harmony to provide each part of the feed to the other and output one part to another. If each of these elements fails to work properly, the efficiency of the other part will decrease. A good example of this is the PlayStation 3 console. Because of its SPUs, the PlayStation 3 had a lot more power on paper than the Xbox 360. But in practice, because of its complex architecture and bottlenecked Memory and other problems, you never reached the peak of efficiency.
There is an image here with following
[Woes of PlayStation 3
The PlayStation 3 had a hard time running multi-platform games compared to the Xbox 360. Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV, for example, ran at 720p on the Microsoft console, but the PlayStation 3 had a poorer output and eventually up scaled the resolution to 720p. But Sony's own studios have been able to offer more detailed games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 2 and 3 due to their greater familiarity with the console and the development of special software accessibility.]
That is why it is not a good idea to base our opinions only on numbers. But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. In addition to all this, we also have a software section. The example is the advent of of Vulkan and DirectX 12. The hardware did not change, but due to the change in the architecture of the software, the hardware could be better put in use.
The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles.
How have you experienced working with both consoles and how do you evaluate them?
I can't say anything right now about my own work, but I'm quoting others who have made a public statement. Developers say that the PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they’ve ever coded for. so they can reach the console's peak performance. In terms of software, coding on the PlayStation 5 is extremely simple and has many features which leave a lot of options for developers. All in all, the PlayStation 5 is a better console.
If I understood correctly, is Traflaps the final defining factor over GPU power? Or what do these floating points mean? How would you describe it for a user who doesn't understand all of these?
I think it was a bad PR move to put all these information out. This technical information does not matter to the average user and is not a final judgement over GPU power.
Graphics cards, for example, have 20 different sections, one of which is Compute Units, which performs the processing. If the rest of the components are best put to use in the best possible way, and there are no other restrictions, there is not bottleneck in memory, and as long as the processor has the necessary information, 12 Tflops can be achieved. So in an ideal world where we remove all the limiting parameters, that's possible, but it's not. ( he means we cannot remove all bottlenecks and 12 Tflpos only remains on paper)
A good example of this is the Xbox Series X hardware. Microsoft two seprate pools of Ram. The same mistake that they made over Xbox one. One pool of RAM has high bandwidth and the other pool of RAM has lower bandwidth. As a result, coding for the console is sometimes problematic. Because the total number of things we have to put in the faster pool RAM is so much that it will be annoying again, and add insult to injury the 4k output needs even more bandwidth. So there will be some factors which bottleneck XSX’s GPU.
You talked about the CUs. The PlayStation 5 now has 36 CUs, and the Xbox Series X has 52 CUs are available to the developer. What is the difference?
The main difference is that the working frequency of the PlayStation 5 is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same. An interesting analogy from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X GPU is like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is like turbocharged 6- cylinder engine. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of benefits, such as the memory management, rasterization, and other elements of the GPU whose performance is related to the frequency not CU count. So in some scenarios PlayStation 5's GPU works faster than the Series X. That's what makes the console GPU to work even more frequently on the announced peak 10.28 Teraflops. But for the Series X, because the rest of the elements are slower, it will not probably reach its 12 Teraflops most of the time, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions.
Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?
No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same. But generally speaking XSX must have less trouble pushing more pixels. (He emphasizes on “only” pixels)
Sony says the smaller the number of CUs, the more you can integrate the tasks. What does Sony's claim mean?
It costs resources to use all the CUs at the same time. Because CUs need resources that are allocated to the GPU when they want to run code. If the GPU fails to distribute all the resources on all the CUs to execute a code, it will be forced to drop a number of CUs in use. For example, instead of 52, use 20 of them because GPU doesn't have enough resources for all CUs at all times.
Aware of this, Sony has used a faster GPU instead of a larger GPU to reduce allocation costs. A more striking example of this was in the CPUs. AMD has had high-core CPUs for a long time. Intels on the other hand has used less core but faster ones. Intel CPUs with less cores but faster ones perform better in Gaming. Clearly, a 16- or 32-core CPU has a higher number of Teraflops, but a CPU with a faster core will definitely do a better job. Because it's hard for gamers and programmers to use all the cores all the time, they prefer to have fewer cores but faster.
Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?
Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first.
Can you elaborate?
That is, the analysis requires very accurate code execution. So it's not something everyone knows right now. There are now much more important concerns for recognizing console hardware, and developers are likely to work with a smaller number of cores at the beginning of the next generation, but with a higher clock, and then move on to use SMT (Hyperthreading).
The 3328 Shader is available in the Xbox Series X Computing Unit. What is a Shader?, what does it do, and what does 3328 Shaders mean?
When developers want to execute code, they do so through units called Wavefront. Multiply the number of CUs by the number of Wavefronts and you have the number of shaders. But it doesn't really matter, and everything I said about the CUs applies here. Again, there are limitations that make all of these shaders unusable, and having many of them all at once aren't necessarily good.
There is another important issue to consider, as Mark Cerny put it. CUs or even Traflaps are not necessarily the same between all architectures. That is, Teraflops cannot be compared between devices and decide which one is actually numerically superior. So you can't trust these numbers and call it a day.
Comparisons between Android devices and Apple iPhones have also recently risen analogous to consoles, with Internet discussions suggesting that Android users have higher RAM but poorer performance than iPhones. Is the comparison between the two with the consoles correct?
Software stacks that are placed on top of the hardware determine everything. As performance updates increase exponentially, so do they. Sony has always had better software because Microsoft has to use Windows. So that's right.
Microsoft has insisted that the Xbox Series X frequency is constant under any circumstances, but Sony does not have such an approach and provides the console with a certain amount of energy to use it as a variable and depending on the situation. What are the differences between the two and which will be better for the developer?
What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
Doesn't this freedom of action make things harder for the developer?
Not really, because we're already doing that on the engine. For example, the Dynamic Resolution Scaling technique used by some games is now measuring different elements and measuring how much the GPU is under pressure and how low the resolution should be kept to be fixed on the frame. So it's very easy to connect these together.
What is the use of the geometry engine or Geometry Engine that Sony is talking about?
I don't think it will be very useful in the first year or two. We'll probably see more of an impact for the second wave of games released on this console, but it doesn't have much use at the start.
The Series X chipset is 7 nanometers, and we know that the smaller the number, the better the chipset. Are you exploring the nanometer and transistors?
Lowering the nanometer means more transistors and controlling their heat in large numbers and smaller spaces. A production technology is better and the number of nanometers is not very important, what matters is the number of transistors.
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?
The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background.
How will the games on PC be in the meantime? Because having an SSD is a choice for a PC user.
Consoles have always determined what the standard is. Game developers also build games based on consoles, and if someone has a PC and doesn't have an SSD on it, they have to deal with long loads or think about buying an SSD.
As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who chooses XBX over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible.
Aditional translation:
Source:
بازی، سرگرمی، فیلم، سریال، انیمه و انیمیشن - ویجیاتو
با دوستات دور هم بازی کن. هدف ویجیاتو سرگرم نگه داشتن تو و دادن اطلاعات ارزشمند از بازی های ویدیویی، سینما، تلویزیون و انواع سرگرمی های باحال مثل کمیک بوک هاست %
Disclaimer: Dont quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call MicroSoft
Wow. That's quite a favorable bit of feedback. For BOTH consoles, really. Just seems the guy was asked more questions about their being an apparent power imbalance and simply does not feel that this is the case. I'm curious about the whole ray tracing deal and how much if at all it will really be used in games by developers. So much i want to know...we really need demo gameplay so we can see this stuff!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Full Interview
Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek, talking about PS5/XSX
Translation by benjohn, a native Farsi speaker.
INTRO
The hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X were officially announced a few weeks ago by Sony and Microsoft, and Digital Foundry had the opportunity to take a deep technical look at what we expect. Although there aren't many games for consoles yet, and we don't know much about their overall performance and user experience, the two companies are constantly competing in technical and complex debates that no one but engineers and programmers can understand. Providing the deepest technical information is not avoided this time around.
As we tracked down the information and read the specifications and were searching for more information on the matter, it seemed better to talk with an engineer and programmer at Crytek, one of the world's most tech-savvy companies, with a powerful gaming engine. That's why I called Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer from Crytek, and asked him, as an expert, to answer our questions about Xbox Traflops adavtages over PS5 and the power of the consoles, and to comment on which one is more powerful. Convincing answers with simple and understandable explanations that were contrary to expectations and numbers on paper.
In the following, you will read the conversation between Mohsen Vafnejad and Shayan Ziaei with Ali Salehi about the hardware specifications of the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X.
INTERVIEW
[Questions bolded, answers not]
Vijayato: In short, what is the job of a rendering engineer in a gaming company?
Ali Salehi: The technical visual section of each game is what we do. That means supporting new consoles, optimizing current algorithms, troubleshooting current ones, implementing new technology and features like RayTracing are somethings we do.
What is the significance of Teraflops, and does higher Teraflops mean a console is stronger?
Teraflops shows that this processor can be as efficient if it is in the best and most ideal state possible. The Teraflops figure is in ideal and theoretical conditions. In practice, however, the graphics card and console are a complex entities that rarely get to their fullest potential. Several elements must work together in harmony to provide each part of the feed to the other and output one part to another. If each of these elements fails to work properly, the efficiency of the other part will decrease. A good example of this is the PlayStation 3 console. Because of its SPUs, the PlayStation 3 had a lot more power on paper than the Xbox 360. But in practice, because of its complex architecture and bottlenecked Memory and other problems, you never reached the peak of efficiency.
There is an image here with following
[Woes of PlayStation 3
The PlayStation 3 had a hard time running multi-platform games compared to the Xbox 360. Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV, for example, ran at 720p on the Microsoft console, but the PlayStation 3 had a poorer output and eventually up scaled the resolution to 720p. But Sony's own studios have been able to offer more detailed games such as The Last of Us and Uncharted 2 and 3 due to their greater familiarity with the console and the development of special software accessibility.]
That is why it is not a good idea to base our opinions only on numbers. But if all the parts in the Xbox Series X can work optimally and the GPU works in its own peak, which is not possible in practice, we can achieve 12 TFlops. In addition to all this, we also have a software section. The example is the advent of of Vulkan and DirectX 12. The hardware did not change, but due to the change in the architecture of the software, the hardware could be better put in use.
The same can be said for consoles. Sony runs PlayStation 5 on its own operating system, but Microsoft has put a customized version of Windows on the Xbox Series X. The two are very different. Because Sony has developed exclusive software for the PlayStation 5, it will definitely give developers much more capabilities than Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles.
How have you experienced working with both consoles and how do you evaluate them?
I can't say anything right now about my own work, but I'm quoting others who have made a public statement. Developers say that the PlayStation 5 is the easiest console they’ve ever coded for. so they can reach the console's peak performance. In terms of software, coding on the PlayStation 5 is extremely simple and has many features which leave a lot of options for developers. All in all, the PlayStation 5 is a better console.
If I understood correctly, is Traflaps the final defining factor over GPU power? Or what do these floating points mean? How would you describe it for a user who doesn't understand all of these?
I think it was a bad PR move to put all these information out. This technical information does not matter to the average user and is not a final judgement over GPU power.
Graphics cards, for example, have 20 different sections, one of which is Compute Units, which performs the processing. If the rest of the components are best put to use in the best possible way, and there are no other restrictions, there is not bottleneck in memory, and as long as the processor has the necessary information, 12 Tflops can be achieved. So in an ideal world where we remove all the limiting parameters, that's possible, but it's not. ( he means we cannot remove all bottlenecks and 12 Tflpos only remains on paper)
A good example of this is the Xbox Series X hardware. Microsoft two seprate pools of Ram. The same mistake that they made over Xbox one. One pool of RAM has high bandwidth and the other pool of RAM has lower bandwidth. As a result, coding for the console is sometimes problematic. Because the total number of things we have to put in the faster pool RAM is so much that it will be annoying again, and add insult to injury the 4k output needs even more bandwidth. So there will be some factors which bottleneck XSX’s GPU.
You talked about the CUs. The PlayStation 5 now has 36 CUs, and the Xbox Series X has 52 CUs are available to the developer. What is the difference?
The main difference is that the working frequency of the PlayStation 5 is much higher and they work at a higher frequency. That's why, despite the differences in CU count, the two consoles’ performance is almost the same. An interesting analogy from an IGN reporter was that the Xbox Series X GPU is like an 8-cylinder engine, and the PlayStation 5 is like turbocharged 6- cylinder engine. Raising the clock speed on the PlayStation 5 seems to me to have a number of benefits, such as the memory management, rasterization, and other elements of the GPU whose performance is related to the frequency not CU count. So in some scenarios PlayStation 5's GPU works faster than the Series X. That's what makes the console GPU to work even more frequently on the announced peak 10.28 Teraflops. But for the Series X, because the rest of the elements are slower, it will not probably reach its 12 Teraflops most of the time, and only reach 12 Teraflops in highly ideal conditions.
Doesn't this difference decline at the end of the generation, when developers become more familiar with the Series X hardware?
No, because the PlayStation API generally gives devs more freedom, and usually at the end of each generation, Sony consoles produce more detailed games. For example, in the early seventh generation, even multi-platform games for both consoles performed poorly on the PlayStation 3. But late in the generation Uncharted 3 and The Last of Us came out on the console. I think the next generation will be the same. But generally speaking XSX must have less trouble pushing more pixels. (He emphasizes on “only” pixels)
Sony says the smaller the number of CUs, the more you can integrate the tasks. What does Sony's claim mean?
It costs resources to use all the CUs at the same time. Because CUs need resources that are allocated to the GPU when they want to run code. If the GPU fails to distribute all the resources on all the CUs to execute a code, it will be forced to drop a number of CUs in use. For example, instead of 52, use 20 of them because GPU doesn't have enough resources for all CUs at all times.
Aware of this, Sony has used a faster GPU instead of a larger GPU to reduce allocation costs. A more striking example of this was in the CPUs. AMD has had high-core CPUs for a long time. Intels on the other hand has used less core but faster ones. Intel CPUs with less cores but faster ones perform better in Gaming. Clearly, a 16- or 32-core CPU has a higher number of Teraflops, but a CPU with a faster core will definitely do a better job. Because it's hard for gamers and programmers to use all the cores all the time, they prefer to have fewer cores but faster.
Could the Hyperthreading feature included in the X series be the Microsoft's winning ace at the end of gerneration?
Technically, hypertheading has been on desktop computers since Pentium 4, and each physical core considers the CPU as two virtual cores, and in most cases helps with performance. Does the Series X feature allow the developer to decide for themselves whether they want to use these virtual cores or turn them off with more CPU clocks? And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not exactly a big deal to make a local decision from the start, so the use of hyperthreading is likely to be used at later time of the generation not at first.
Can you elaborate?
That is, the analysis requires very accurate code execution. So it's not something everyone knows right now. There are now much more important concerns for recognizing console hardware, and developers are likely to work with a smaller number of cores at the beginning of the next generation, but with a higher clock, and then move on to use SMT (Hyperthreading).
The 3328 Shader is available in the Xbox Series X Computing Unit. What is a Shader?, what does it do, and what does 3328 Shaders mean?
When developers want to execute code, they do so through units called Wavefront. Multiply the number of CUs by the number of Wavefronts and you have the number of shaders. But it doesn't really matter, and everything I said about the CUs applies here. Again, there are limitations that make all of these shaders unusable, and having many of them all at once aren't necessarily good.
There is another important issue to consider, as Mark Cerny put it. CUs or even Traflaps are not necessarily the same between all architectures. That is, Teraflops cannot be compared between devices and decide which one is actually numerically superior. So you can't trust these numbers and call it a day.
Comparisons between Android devices and Apple iPhones have also recently risen analogous to consoles, with Internet discussions suggesting that Android users have higher RAM but poorer performance than iPhones. Is the comparison between the two with the consoles correct?
Software stacks that are placed on top of the hardware determine everything. As performance updates increase exponentially, so do they. Sony has always had better software because Microsoft has to use Windows. So that's right.
Microsoft has insisted that the Xbox Series X frequency is constant under any circumstances, but Sony does not have such an approach and provides the console with a certain amount of energy to use it as a variable and depending on the situation. What are the differences between the two and which will be better for the developer?
What Sony has done is much more logical because it decides whether the GPU frequency is higher or the CPU's frequency at certain times, depending on the processing load. For example, on a loading page, only the CPU is needed and the GPU is not used. Or in a close-up scene of the character's face, GPU gets involved and CPU plays a very small role. On the other hand, it's good that the Series X has good cooling and guarantees to keep the frequency constant and it doesn't have throttling, but the practical freedom that Sony has given is really a big deal.
Doesn't this freedom of action make things harder for the developer?
Not really, because we're already doing that on the engine. For example, the Dynamic Resolution Scaling technique used by some games is now measuring different elements and measuring how much the GPU is under pressure and how low the resolution should be kept to be fixed on the frame. So it's very easy to connect these together.
What is the use of the geometry engine or Geometry Engine that Sony is talking about?
I don't think it will be very useful in the first year or two. We'll probably see more of an impact for the second wave of games released on this console, but it doesn't have much use at the start.
The Series X chipset is 7 nanometers, and we know that the smaller the number, the better the chipset. Are you exploring the nanometer and transistors?
Lowering the nanometer means more transistors and controlling their heat in large numbers and smaller spaces. A production technology is better and the number of nanometers is not very important, what matters is the number of transistors.
PlayStation 5 SSD speeds reach 8-9 GB/s in peak mode. Now that we've reached this speed, what else will happen apart from loading games and more details?
The first thing to do is remove the loading page from the games. Microsoft also showed the ability to stop and run new games, which can run multiple games simultaneously and move between each in less than 5-6 seconds. This time will be under a second in PlayStation. Another thing that can be expected is a change in the game menu. When there is no loading, of course, there is no expectation and you no longer need to watch a video to load the game in the background.
How will the games on PC be in the meantime? Because having an SSD is a choice for a PC user.
Consoles have always determined what the standard is. Game developers also build games based on consoles, and if someone has a PC and doesn't have an SSD on it, they have to deal with long loads or think about buying an SSD.
As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who chooses XBX over PS5. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible.
Aditional translation:
Source:
بازی، سرگرمی، فیلم، سریال، انیمه و انیمیشن - ویجیاتو
با دوستات دور هم بازی کن. هدف ویجیاتو سرگرم نگه داشتن تو و دادن اطلاعات ارزشمند از بازی های ویدیویی، سینما، تلویزیون و انواع سرگرمی های باحال مثل کمیک بوک هاست %
Disclaimer: Dont quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call MicroSoft
Very interesting read.
rnlval
Member
I quote from https://www.neogaf.com/threads/is-p...neer-at-crytek-answers.1535138/post-257680496
"Microsoft, which has almost the same directX PC and for its consoles."
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
That's what my guess was and I already said it however my View was put down becaus DirectX12 Ultimate bullshit.
Farrell55
Banned
Okay and whats your Point?
For your Info
I never claimed that ms didnt have a Advanced and efficiency API for Pc and console's! Of course they have an advanced Api with high efficiency! But there is someone who is even more advanced and efficiency (Sony PS5)
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ruvikx
Banned
Which developers are those? You do realize the absolute vast majority of developers have kept their mouths shut & don't sh*t all over either console... because they're in business with them, right? You guys handpick a few tweets from a few devs & take that 0,01% & say "look, this is what devs are saying!".
All I see is utter, utter desperation from one side to say "look, my plastic box is actually better!". As soon as people start talking about "optimization" as the secret sauce, I switch off. It's total bullshit. You have no idea how well Microsoft's optimization tools compare to Sony's. Neither does the previously quoted "Persian dev" fanboys are worshipping right now.
This is quickly becoming the most boring console war ever.
Last edited:
Zoro7
Banned
Your post also reeks of utter desperation. You know the PS5 will have better exclusives and the only thing that helps you sleep at night is the grace of those extra 2 TFs. Have a good day bro.
Zzpaff
Member
although it is very likely that with that level of fanaticism he neither sleeps nor rests
Fifa, Assassins Creed, WD Legion, Outriders, Cyberpunk, Dying light 2, Gods and monsters, Skull and bones, Beyond good and evill 2, probably a NFS....
Last edited:
xacto
Member
Also this came from a AAA dev, famous in the graphics departure not an indie game, yes the indie devs are important for the industry
but they are far to be the leader in this kind of things.
Or, better even, when did this guy develop a game that runs at 120FPS @ 4K?
Metroiddarks
Member
Assasin Creed, the next Battlefield will be a good start as only next gen titles.
In your opinion when is the best moment to announce the lockhart xbox? Because if that is show this year the games of third parties needs to work also in that console.
Metroiddarks
Member
FIFA will look almost the same in both consoles just check the last version for the base consoles.
WD still be an intergenerational title but maybe in the part of raytracing the XSX can shine.
Outriders looks like a game for this actual gen.
Cyberpunk should be a similar case than WD but also the new SSD should be important in the LOD.
Beyond good and evil 2 will be ready for PS5 pro and XSXX hahaha
Shmunter
Member
There are 2 competing philosophies on the XsX memory setup. I’m in glass half empty camp. I can’t see the bus being 560gb constantly when hitting the 360gb chips, it just seems like having your cake and eating it too. There is of course room for some secret sauce, but until further notice I’m hedging bets on the explanation that seems more likely,
He asked what Games will arrive on NexT-gen consoles in Q4, not what NexT gen Games.
Metroiddarks
Member
Yeah and my opinion still valid some of your games are not for Q4 and are not exactly a benchmark for the next gen.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
War is over? How naive man. Nothing gonna stop it. NOTHING, even Phil Spencer throwing in the trash can Series X admiting PS5 is better.Thx for the Translation
Looks like the War is Over
"As a programmer and developer, which do you consider the best console for working and coding? PlayStation 5 or Xbox X series?
Definitely PlayStation 5.
As a programmer, I would say that the PlayStation 5 is much better, and I don't think you can find a programmer who can outperform the PlayStation 5 from the Xbox X-Series. For the Xbox, they have to put DirectX and Windows on the console, which is many years old, but for each new console that Sony builds, it also rebuilds the software and APIs in any way it wants. It is in their interest and in our interest. Because there is only one way to do everything, and theirs is the best way possible. "
⬇⬇ Here are a few points ⬇⬇⬇
According to the Interview (crytek dev)
*Sony has the Far more advanced API/Tool set*
*In the most cases ps5 will perform better*
*almost zero load times compared to the 4 to 5sec from xbox sx*
*overall the ps5 is the better console*
*xbox sx will have an Resolution advantage in some games*
Farrell55
Banned
I know
I used it only as a Headline to provoke our secret Discord member friends getting they out of their dirty holes
Last edited:
ZywyPL
Banned
Yeah, those two could indeed benefit from next-gen hardware -denser crowds, with better AI, or better destruction and more players/vehicles thanks to Zen2 CPUs, bigger/more complex worlds thanks to more RAM and SSD. I don't know about AC, but BF is rumored to be delayed exactly to be a next-gen-only title, to take full benefits of new consoles. We will see how this one turns out.
PaintTinJr
Member
Before this becomes a defacto viewpoint as gospel in this thread. Can anyone making this claim – about RT favouring wider CU count than faster clocks – work through a simple workload example to make the argument on finite console hardware(ie no mention of PC benchmarks with large discrete memory pools), as I really don’t see why RT would automatically favour multi-core (many CUs), instead – when virtually every deeply recursive computing problem I can think of favours simple single core (eg 1x 3.2GHz core vs 2x 1.6GHz cores) for performance up until clock stability limits, even if the PC graphics driver can improve performance I would expect frame pacing to be an issue by going wide and slower.
How the BVH structures are stored and accessed by more CUs – assuming RT cores are coupled with CUs as is being asserted from the vanilla RDNA2 solution – instantly has me thinking these structures need replicated to every pair of CUs that share a workload. The implied result being that if you had a workload that could just fit into 1 frame of one CU on a fast clock, then it could use the other CU with a different BVH in tandem – as opposed to a slightly slower clock that would need the same BVH in both CUs to complete that first workload.
I would love for someone with the direct expertise to explain the work and data flow for RT on console hardware because I'm not convinced that the comparison with PC hardware reflects the situation of HSA consoles.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Disclaimer: Dont quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call MicroSoft
PlayStation 5's rumored heat issues should be solved in final console
Sources say the PlayStation 5 runs hot, but Sony should compensate with a powerful cooling solution.
www.tweaktown.com
Disclaimer: Don't quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call Sony
Gudji
Member
PlayStation 5's rumored heat issues should be solved in final console
Sources say the PlayStation 5 runs hot, but Sony should compensate with a powerful cooling solution.
Disclaimer: Don't quote me to tell me any kind of BS, if you dislike the info, call Sony
Jim Ryan is my uncle so I can tell you he's wrong.
M-V2
Member
I got banned from "ps5 is better etc.. thread" I know I got reported by some people it seems, but I didn't make that thread and my intention wasn't a console war, I read it and I thought it's very interesting read to share it here on this thread, not on Xbox thread or anything to start a console war. And this thread is mostly has PS fans. Another thing I engaged in that thread (after I stopped replying because it's fine people to have different thinking) one guy called me out for being fanboy and etc when I simply said that I have nothing to do with that thread, I didn't make it nor I gave the idea. A lot of people are fighting each others but I got banned for no reason. In the end I will not upload anything here from now on, it seems some people are very sensitive and don't like what I upload. All in all I understand the ban it is what it is.
His analysis is mostly on point. The channel distribution is correct.
That's incorrect.
1. I would not expect CPU bandwidth to be over 40GB/sec, it will thrash GPU caches so fast it's not funny.
2. In reality XBSX RAM will be faster for render targets (560 vs 448) and that's what needs the bandwidth the most. All other calculations are moot.
3. In reality GPU/CPU sync for XBSX will be harder to achieve. Which leads to a typical PC situation: CPU is used mostly for pumping GPU commands and game logic.
Overall I would suspect that reaching stable FPS for less complex scenarios in XBSX will be faster. Any complex CPU/GPU interaction or CPU/SSD/GPU and XBSX will be much harder to optimize for.
Gediminas
Banned
do opposite. upload a lot. these people trying just shut you up. stay positive
M-V2
Member
What's the point of uploading too much if the mods don't understand the situation? I need one post that me accusing or attacking someone directly? I replied in that thread because someone accused me for being a fanboy and want a console war... Instead of mods banning him they banned me because I defended myself. Again I posted it in here because it's an interesting read, I would have posted it in other thread if I want a console war. This thread mostly has PS fans.do opposite. upload a lot. these people trying just shut you up. stay positive
You were one of 16 people reply banned from that thread. If you don't understand the situation, read these posts of yours.
(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...
(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...
If you attempt to incite console wars and antagonise xbox fan's with this nonsense, you will be removed from the thread. Please do not paint yourself as a victim or hard done-by.
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M-V2
Member
I'm not playing the victim, plus I said Xbox fanboys I didn't accuse someone by name, or called a certain name by a fanboy, alot of people use that term in this thread and other threads, so what's the problem??You were one of 16 people reply banned from that thread. If you don't understand the situation, read these posts of yours.
(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...
If you attempt to incite console wars and antagonise xbox fan's with this nonsense, you will be removed from the thread. Please do not paint yourself as a victim or hard done-by.
It's what it's I think, sorry for taking your time.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Overall in most scenarios I would indeed agree this is the case from what I understand of it, but with a shared bus unless you can afford to properly alternate accesses to both fast and slow “pools” you will be losing quite a bit of bandwidth when the GPU needs data in the slow pool if the pools cannot be accessed in parallel which is possibly not something happening often at launch, but it does add complications if you already store more in RAM as you need a bit larger temporary buffer for streaming data from the SSD.
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Gediminas
Banned
so this interview is nonsense? can you elaborate?You were one of 16 people reply banned from that thread. If you don't understand the situation, read these posts of yours.
(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)
Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...
If you attempt to incite console wars and antagonise xbox fan's with this nonsense, you will be removed from the thread. Please do not paint yourself as a victim or hard done-by.
Disco_
Member
Did someone really name that thread "PS5 is better..."?
M-V2
Member
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