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[Shmunter]

Anybody expecting extensive use of Ray Tracing in 4k60, AAA games are delusional. Keeps your expectations in check.

The only silver lining in all this is standardisation. All PS5/XsX consoles will bring the hardware. This breaks down barriers for experimentation and innovation to all devs. Just as game engines and techniques evolve, so can RT.

We may yet see good results with les cost than anticipated. Or not, but it’s the best shot yet.

 

[saintjules]

Quick! Someone translate

Edit: Nevermind. I see the word Daniel Ahmad in the writing lol

 

[Gamernyc78]

Anybody expecting extensive use of Ray Tracing in 4k60, AAA games are delusional. Keeps your expectations in check.

Most if not all ppl here are enthusiasts, thy should know better. Most ppl here have been gaming for generations.

Doesn't mean we can't see some good results in first party games and some third party games with use of checkerboarding and 30fps instead. A new Souls game for example could look good with RT implementation, isn't graphically demanding as other games, works fine at 30fps, etc...

 

[FranXico]

Quick! Someone translate

Edit: Nevermind. I see the word Daniel Ahmad in the writing lol

DusalSense LOL.

 

[Physiognomonics]

i've wonder if ps5 could do audio, gi, shadows and reflections at same time? or its just combinations of them but not all of them ar given frame? cerny mentioned that he saw game runing with RT reflections with moderate penalty on gpu, moderate is about 10% - 20%? that would be high just for reflections but not every frame you need to calculate reflections so it's more dynamic i guess.

Yes, it's already doing all of it in Quantom Error which targets 4K60fps:

 

[Thirty7ven]

The only silver lining in all this is standardisation. All PS5/XsX consoles will bring the hardware. This breaks down barriers for experimentation and innovation to all devs. Just as game engines and techniques evolve, so can RT.

We may yet see good results with les cost than anticipated. Or not, but it’s the best shot yet.

Very true and I would also say it will be an interesting boost for the development of smaller scale games.

I also suspect midgen refreshes will lean heavily on the promise of Ray Tracing as opposed to something as worthless as 8K.

 

[ethomaz]

XSX has compressed SSD speeds of between 4-6GB/s. If we’re to consider which one would result from higher compression ratio for texture data(BCPack), then its the 6GB/s.

4.8GB/s for BCPack 50%.

6GB/s is like Sony saying 22GB/s lol

 

[Darius87]

Yes, it's already doing all of it in Quantom Error which targets 4K60fps:

but is that just path-tracing or real RT?

 

[Physiognomonics]

4.8GB/s for BCPack 50%.

6GB/s is like Sony saying 22GB/s lol

Not even. It's 6GB/s for textures only with a lossy compression. For all data it's 4.8GB/s VS 22GB/s

 

[ethomaz]

Not even. It's 6GB/s for textures only with a lossy compression. For all data it's 4.8GB/s VS 22GB/s

Nah it is 4.8GB/s vs 8-9GB/s.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Nah it is 4.8GB/s vs 8-9GB/s.

Nope. 4.8 GB/s is their theoretical compressed max. MS didn't say their typical speeds.

Seems even traditional Sony fans (not pejorative) don't seem to grasp how fast is Sony's SSD compared to MS.

 

[Tripolygon]

Moores Law Is Dead

I have checked the original source and it is FALSE he claims to have images from the PS5 APU or SSD Controller.

He only claim to know that Marvell is making the PS5 SDD Controller. That is all.

That memory controller will have Sony Interactive Entertainment printed on it not Marvell. Notice how even though AMD designed the APU in both consoles yet they have Microsoft and Sony names on them? That's because they paid for those designs. Marvell does make custom ASICs for anyone but like i said, it will have the customer's name on it. Marvell does not fabricate their controllers, they use TSMC and Global Foundry. Sony will be using one of those or Samsung as well to make their controllers.

For example PS4 Wifi module is made by Marvell, not a custom design

PS4 also has a custom design network coprocessor by Marvell but this time it has SCE (Sony computer entertainment)

Essentially I'm saying its BS. He does not know who is making Sony's SSD controller.

 

[Aceofspades]

The fact people like Timdog are invited to events and passed info from time to time by MS feels odd... also at odds with Phil’s anti console war messaging when others in Xbox cultivate those kind of fans and support their astroturfing.

It tells you more about Phil than those nerdy psychopaths.

 

[Darius87]

It tells you more about Phil than those nerdy psychopaths.

maybe Timdog is Phil's son? i would bury myself if that's true.

 

[Tripolygon]

So, in addition to the eight Zen2 cores in the CPU, the PS5 figuratively has 9 more Zen2 cores, which means that it has the processing power of seventeen Zen2 cores?

That's the type of marketing bullshit Console makers use to use back in the days. Thankfully that stopped (kinda) in the PS3 era. Those other processors are Application Specific Integrated Circuit aka ASIC. They are good at one or two things. So it is disingenuous to say PS5 figuratively has the processing power of 17 Zen2 cores. Any given electronic device has 10s of processors that do various things separate from the main CPU and GPU.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It tells you more about Phil than those nerdy psychopaths.

MS reliance on astroturfing is well documented, and their practices will only have gotten “worse” with the kind of access they have to big data. The way bullshit rumors about the PS5 spread like wildfire in YouTube comments and the like is proof of that.

 

[Gamernyc78]

It tells you more about Phil than those nerdy psychopaths.

Tht fake "we are all gamers and not trying to undercut eachother" talk tht comes out of Phil's mouth is all bs. He'll get on stage and say something to that effect then thirty minutes later there will be a Twitter tweet from Microsoft themselves throwing low blows and innuendos at Sony lol

Corporations are cut throat and its all obliterate mentality when thy are in tht war room strategizing lol

 

[TLZ]

i wasnt sure if ps4 pro or the one x already support it

They do.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nope. 4.8 GB/s is their theoretical compressed max. MS didn't say their typical speeds.

Seems even traditional Sony fans (not pejorative) don't seem to grasp how fast is Sony's SSD compared to MS.

I think it's because Sony put so many customizations into their I/O system that people don't really understand what the final product is as a whole. Sure Mark gave us those numbers but alot of people can't grasp what they really mean when it comes to gaming.

 

[Rusco Da Vino]

That memory controller will have Sony Interactive Entertainment printed on it not Marvell. Notice how even though AMD designed the APU in both consoles yet they have Microsoft and Sony names on them? That's because they paid for those designs. Marvell does make custom ASICs for anyone but like i said, it will have the customer's name on it. Marvell does not fabricate their controllers, they use TSMC and Global Foundry. Sony will be using one of those or Samsung as well to make their controllers.

For example PS4 Wifi module is made by Marvell, not a custom design


PS4 also has a custom design network coprocessor by Marvell but this time it has SCE (Sony computer entertainment)


Essentially I'm saying its BS. He does not know who is making Sony's SSD controller.

What a waste of time. I already explained a few posts later that the imagenes were placeholders, for reference only.

 

[B_Boss]

You will get used to it. These speculations threads usually have a lot of conflicting ideals in them. It's best to just be cool about it unless you want you time in Gaf to be short.

My evil side wishes that, whenever MoW bans someone he posts this gif instead ....the banned member’s name placed right on Helios’ face too....ahem, sorry, back on topic me .

The more this goes on, everytime there is a heated discussion and think to partecipate I just realize that in few months we will see a lot of next gen games and fuck the rest lol

In other words, nextgen “birth pangs” .

 

[Corndog]

It's not. They would need 9 Zen 2 cores to do the same job. And another 1 or 2 cores in order to do the job of the DMA.

What he is saying is it’s the truth but not the whole truth. It may replace the 9 cores for this job. It cannot act as 9 cores. It does one job only.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Anybody expecting extensive use of Ray Tracing in 4k60, AAA games are delusional. Keeps your expectations in check.

If only these consoles had some alternative to DLSS by AMD. Without such technology, there's no way that these consoles will be able to use Ray Tracing to a significant degree at 4K without running games at the speed of a slideshow.

 

[Imtjnotu]

M6 2007
X5 50i 2016
ML 350 CDI 2013

The v10 M6 is a fucking drug. The X5 is pretty beefy for a SUV btw. But, that’s all unrelated to reliability.

I bet you have no damn clue what a turn signal is huh

 

[DaGwaphics]

Nope. 4.8 GB/s is their theoretical compressed max. MS didn't say their typical speeds.

Seems even traditional Sony fans (not pejorative) don't seem to grasp how fast is Sony's SSD compared to MS.

4.8 is the average speed. 6GB/s is the maximum for the hardware. Both systems are looking to average about 50% compression, which is typical. The biggest difference is in the speed of the data in, the faster you can feed the compression block, the more you get out of it.

 

[Aceofspades]

So, in addition to the eight Zen2 cores in the CPU, the PS5 figuratively has 9 more Zen2 cores, which means that it has the processing power of seventeen Zen2 cores?

Well, it means that Sony ultra fast SSD and Beast I/O won't take any resources from the CPU at all.

 

[joe_zazen]

I have a 2016 x5 50i also. Holy hell I love that engine. An SUV has no right to hustle like it does with a bm3 tune.

enjoy it. We all be driving electric tanks in ten years, lol.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

That's the type of marketing bullshit Console makers use to use back in the days. Thankfully that stopped (kinda) in the PS3 era. Those other processors are Application Specific Integrated Circuit aka ASIC. They are good at one or two things. So it is disingenuous to say PS5 figuratively has the processing power of 17 Zen2 cores. Any given electronic device has 10s of processors that do various things separate from the main CPU and GPU.

Well, I know that the decompressor is task specific. What I was referring to by my question was the total processing power of the CPU combined with the decompressor, when they're both imagined as one unit of which eight cores are free to work on things other than decompressing data because the other nine cores are decompressing data.

Since the PS5 will continuously move data to and fro as it's running a game, the task of decompressing data will be a constant one; therefore the decompressor can be thought of as always functioning as an extension of the PS5's CPU since CPUs usually perform this task in traditional computer systems (as far as I know). Hence, I think that the PS5 can genuinely be thought of as having the general processing power of seventeen Zen2 cores.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Continuing my post above: Subsequently, unless the decompressor of the XSX similarly completely offloads the task of decompressing data from the XSX's CPU, the PS5 will be effectively more powerful in regard to tasks typically performed by CPUs despite its CPU being clocked slightly lower than that of the XSX.

 

[SonGoku]

uhm... doesn't the Series X have a speed of 4.8 GB/s compressed? so exactly that kind of data what this is about, so why use the uncompressed speed of 2.5GB/s? meaning at 50% compression that would be 9.6GB/s, meaning it can fill the whole RAM pool in about 1.5sec.

The BCPack thing is hilarious: This joke is coming from a tweet from the guy I posted before. The guy even says that "We don't have any real details yet" but yet he starts a wild speculation about BCPack thing without any kind of evidence or real fundament.

The 4.8GB/s figure given by MS already accounts for BCPack (only texture streaming), so whatever he reveals its not going to affect that figure

You haven't proved any additional information on in low–order interleaving. You're a hypocrite.

I know the basics which you haven't refuted:
Data is spread across all chips and to access even a 1MB asset all chips must be read simultaneously

 

[Metroiddarks]

I find it funny how in just this new generation that the culling solutions are an essential part of the
hardware (Primitive shaders/Mesh Shaders) promising to optimize the use of memory and processing.

But on the other hand one of the most important innovations is the hardware is RT which shines for being able
to collect various data from the scenario even when it is not visible (basically light and sound).

I want to see how can work together both things.

 

[lepermessiah]

a u t h o r i t y

I just want to see some damn gaaaaaammmesss already, time for pudding NAOW, TAKE ME CERYNY

 

[Agnostic2020]

Guys tomorrow is a random tuesday . Is sony gonna tease ps5 reveal for 5/5 ?

Its two weeks in advance of 5/5 tomorrow.

Give us the teaser for the ps5 reveal event

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yes, it's already doing all of it in Quantom Error which targets 4K60fps:

He asked at the same time, not in the same game.

 

[rntongo]

No, even go read the tweets by the BCpack guy, he says they are similar if Kraken uses RDO on the data.

So Kraken + RDO = BCPack was even in his tweets.

But Sony is not using RDO and he was just giving options for how Sony can possibly match BCPack.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But Sony is not using RDO and he was just giving options for how Sony can possibly match BCPack.

Sony doesn't need to use RDO to surpass the Series X I/O configuration.

 

[Tripolygon]

What a waste of time. I already explained in few posts later that the imagenes were placeholders, for reference only.

Exclusive: Marvell is making the PS5 SSD controller. Then proceeds to show what appears to have a Sony label on it with a SSD using a Marvell controller. That is clickbait and also false.

Marvell technology group does not fabricate chips or processors. They design them and another company makes them. So how can they be making PS5 SSD controller when we know Sony's controller was wholly designed by Sony themselves?

Well, I know that the decompressor is task specific. What I was referring to by my question was the total processing power of the CPU combined with the decompressor, when they're both imagined as one unit of which eight cores are free to work on things other than decompressing data because the other nine cores are decompressing data.

Since the PS5 will continuously move data to and fro as it's running a game, the task of decompressing data will be a constant one; therefore the decompressor can be thought of as always functioning as an extension of the PS5's CPU since CPUs usually perform this task in traditional computer systems (as far as I know). Hence, I think that the PS5 can genuinely be thought of as having the general processing power of seventeen Zen2 cores.

You can't imagine them as one unit in terms of total computing power, they are disparate processing units with specific functions that work together. Same way you can't add the GPU with decompressor unit like that even though GPU can also do texture decompression as well.

 

[schaft0620]

Predicting the PS5 and Xbox Series X Launch Games - Lords of Gaming

As we gear up for the launch of both consoles. We wanted to take a look at what gamers can expect for PS5 and Xbox Series X Launch Games.

lordsofgaming.net

 

[SonGoku]

XSX has compressed SSD speeds of between 4-6GB/s. If we’re to consider which one would result from higher compression ratio for texture data(BCPack), then its the 6GB/s.

Nope, 6GB/s is the peak throughput of the decompressing unit compared to PS5s 22GB/s.
4.8GB/s is the figure given for streaming only textures (BCPack). PS5s typical 8-9GB/s is for all data

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

He asked at the same time, not in the same game.

It is not a dev account, but the official account of the game. Maybe it is not certain but I find likely that they are referring to Quantum Error alone.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It is not a dev account, but the official account of the game. Maybe it is not certain but I find likely that they are referring to Quantum Error alone.

Right.. he asked...

Can they do the effects at the SAME TIME?

The person responded posted a tweet about a game all using the effects... but we have no idea if they will use them in the same frame/at the same time.

So the question wasn't answered.

 

[joe_zazen]

Kraken.io says they can do lossy texture compression and save up to 90% space.

where is the info coming from that kraken cant compress with lossy algorithms?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

You can't imagine them as one unit in terms of total computing power, they are disparate processing units with specific functions that work together. Same way you can't add the GPU with decompressor unit like that even though GPU can also do texture decompression as well.

I believe that I can since the PS5's decompressor was designed for the very purpose of offloading the task of decompressing data from the PS5's CPU in order to free the PS5's CPU to perform other tasks and in order to do so more efficiently than the CPU would do so. Furthermore, it's only logical to consider the PS5's decompressor as an extension of the PS5's CPU because when comparing the PS5 to its competitor, the XSX, the PS5's decompressor may be very relevant since it frees the PS5's CPU to a degree that the XSX's decompressor may not free the XSX's CPU.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Right.. he asked...

Can they do the effects at the SAME TIME?

The person responded posted a tweet about a game all using the effects... but we have no idea if they will use them in the same frame/at the same time.

So the question wasn't answered.

Now I got you.

 

[Tripolygon]

But Sony is not using RDO and he was just giving options for how Sony can possibly match BCPack.

Sony doesn't need to use RDO to surpass the Series X I/O configuration.

Everybody uses rate distortion optimization for every type of encoding, audio, video, texture etc. RDO is just a way to analyze and see how far off from the original source the compressed output is and trying to be as close to it as possible to reduce artifacts.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Everybody uses rate distortion optimization for every type of encoding, audio, video, texture etc. RDO is just a way to analyze and see how far off from the original source the compressed output is and trying to be as close to it as possible to reduce artifacts.

Ok thanks for explaining that to me. I didn't know it was a QA type of thing.

 

[Kusarigama]

Kraken.io says they can do lossy texture compression and save up to 90% space.

where is the info coming from that kraken cant compress with lossy algorithms?

Kraken.io is a different thing. You should look for RAD game tools' oodle Kraken.

Oodle Kraken

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

 

[Tripolygon]

I believe that I can since the PS5's decompressor was designed for the very purpose of offloading the task of decompressing data from the PS5's CPU in order to free the PS5's CPU to perform other tasks and in order to do so more efficiently than the CPU would do so. Furthermore, it's only logical to consider the PS5's decompressor as an extension of the PS5's CPU because when comparing the PS5 to its competitor, the XSX, the PS5's decompressor may be very relevant since it frees the PS5's CPU to a degree that the XSX's decompressor may not free the XSX's CPU.

PS4 also has zlib decompressors as well as Xbox One which offload the task of decompressing data. Those are not extensions of the CPU, they are separate units designed to do zlib decompression and only that. If you decide to use a compression format other than what they are designed to support then you have to use the CPU. It is for the same reason Sony added support for Kraken to their decompressor.

 

[rntongo]

Sony doesn't need to use RDO to surpass the Series X I/O configuration.

Exactly! But BCPack has considerably better compression for texture data than Kraken. That was my argument. Sony’s throughput is 7-9 GB/s. XSX is 4-6 GB/s

 

[Tripolygon]

Ok thanks for explaining that to me. I didn't know it was a QA type of thing.

Cheers.