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[Coulomb_Barrier]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

I hope they do have something, they may have something under super secret wraps to compete with DLSS but you're right, it's hard to see where the money for that is coming from given AMD's awful profits each year even after Ryzen 3000 if you're a pessimist.

I'm more optimistic though, AMD has always had an answer generally to Nvidia tech and vice versa.

 

[ethomaz]

Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year

Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation console’s launch, according to people familiar with the matter.

www.bloomberg.com

That graph is weird because neither memory or storage has the same cost for PS5 and Xbox.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

Would be funny, but I would prefer a Series S

 

[aclar00]

“Cerny Architecture”

Cerchitecture or Markitecture

 

[Arkam]

I just remembered, isn't this edition supposed to come on June 2nd?

So this is legit? I remember there being some debate and didnt follow it closely.

 

[IllegalLemon]

It's been 2 years since God of War, and Cory Barlog said that the sequel will take less time to make than the first (5 years):

"A big portion of the five years was, we had to start from scratch," Barlog said. "Everything really needed to be redone, because we just had torn the engine apart in so many different ways that when we finally brought the team together, everyone realized, 'OK, this is not where it needs to be.'"

"So even when you see E3 2016, the rendering engine wasn’t there, the lighting engine was half-there, the atmospheric engine was half-there. The core mechanics were there, but a lot of the way we were streaming and loading everything was still getting worked out, and figuring out how we were going to get it logistically to work. We knew what we wanted, we just didn’t know technologically how we were going to get it in the right order."

God of War took five years to make - here's why, and why it won't take as long next time

Yes, there will almost certainly be a next time

www.gamesradar.com

He mentioned on some other interviews it'll take less for the sequel and he has already 5 sequels in mind! So hopefully it'll be ready to show the trailer, at least next month.

Ok so it won't release in 2023 and will release in 2022 instead. Still, that's at least 2 years away.

 

[xacto]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

Sorry, but TL;DR was TL;DR.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

It's been 2 years since God of War, and Cory Barlog said that the sequel will take less time to make than the first (5 years):

"A big portion of the five years was, we had to start from scratch," Barlog said. "Everything really needed to be redone, because we just had torn the engine apart in so many different ways that when we finally brought the team together, everyone realized, 'OK, this is not where it needs to be.'"

"So even when you see E3 2016, the rendering engine wasn’t there, the lighting engine was half-there, the atmospheric engine was half-there. The core mechanics were there, but a lot of the way we were streaming and loading everything was still getting worked out, and figuring out how we were going to get it logistically to work. We knew what we wanted, we just didn’t know technologically how we were going to get it in the right order."

God of War took five years to make - here's why, and why it won't take as long next time

Yes, there will almost certainly be a next time

www.gamesradar.com

He mentioned on some other interviews it'll take less for the sequel and he has already 5 sequels in mind! So hopefully it'll be ready to show the trailer, at least next month.

Makes sense, If the game is 2 years away then I do think we'll see some sort of trailer or gameplay during the upcoming Playstation event.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

They can use stuff from many other sources. Alot of algorithms are out there enhancing textures and videos. Nvidia has the super computimg capabilities to teach their algorithm and you can buy there service to build your own.

 

[HAL-01]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.

I feel this isn’t gonna age well come the next few years
Sony spends millions on its ICE Team to develop cutting edge tech for its in house engines, and we already know of their big interest in gaming applications for AI. Can’t imagine Microsoft being far behind. Plus AI tools and resources are getting better and more accessible by the minute, in a couple years anyone who’s interested will have access to this sort of tech. Once a company does a big breakthrough it doesn’t take long for others to follow.

TL;DR Tech finds a way

 

[Audiophile]

Thanks! Some more for ya'...

I usually prefer a more standardised border-based template with less intrusion on the artwork itself and more distinctive brand identity, but thought I'd at least try something a little bit different.

Get the tissues. One more. From an alternate universe...

Some more conventional variants, a minimalist one and a couple square cases:

 

[FeiRR]

Xbox preorders soon (TM)

Xbox Series X | Xbox

Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.

www.microsoft.com

Haha, they translated "holidays" literarily so it actually means July-August 2020 in my language. Someone might get angry.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So this is legit? I remember there being some debate and didnt follow it closely.

It's legit that is the preview of the next issue out on June 2nd. I'm not too confident they'll come through given recent shenanigans. Hard to believe they would get the scoops on PS5 games (that aren't Godfall/Quantum Error).

 

[xacto]

Some more conventional variants, a minimalist one and a couple square cases:

I would really, really like a Blade Runner game.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

For $1.99

That intro killed me

 

[zaitsu]

Haha, they translated "holidays" literarily so it actually means July-August 2020 in my language. Someone might get angry.

Same thing in Poland

 

[IkarugaDE]

Same thing in Poland

He is from poland.

 

[FeiRR]

Same thing in Poland

Because I'm Polish

 

[zaitsu]

Because I'm Polish

Witaj rodaku

 

[IkarugaDE]

Witaj rodaku

Uwaga! Niemiec cie rozumie.

 

[bitbydeath]

I definitely do not think it can cut the development time in half, BUT, if you watch the next developer conference you will see all the time and effort that the team behind SpiderMan had to put into making the game just because the slow HDD inside the PS4 and PS4Pro, all the techniques to make it work right, duplicating elements, hiding stuff from the user when is moving fast, putting the map into chunks, designing a map that is convenient to do so, putting high buildings not just because is New York but because they need to hide what is behind all those buildings, limiting the quality of the assets such as textures, and file sizes...



Take a look at it and tell me how many weeks or even months do you think they could have saved themself without the need of implementing all those technics...

On top of these savings it was said with streaming textures in 8K they can now pull them directly from zbrush and not have to manipulate them at all to get them to work in their game.

I don’t know how much dev time will be saved but that one task alone sounds huge.

 

[ToadMan]

$499 easy. $550 to 599 quite possible, not feasible tough. $399 that´s cheap, big loss per sold unit.

But this is a comparison of prices today for componentry in products that will be on the market for 10 years.

Sony and MS are paying what will be a fraction of today's "retail" (that's retail to manufacturers, not consumers) because the costs of those components will reduce significantly. We already know the processor, GPUs and SSDs in these consoles are obsolescent - they're specced from the second half of last year. By this time next year they'll be low grade items and won't command the prices of today. GDDR holds it's value better but that's only one component.

It's not like Sony or MS come along and say - "we want a million of X component now and that's it" then after those million are sold return and say "hey we need a million more X - how much are they now?". They enter into a contract for a long term supply arrangement - perhaps 5, 7 or even 10 years of supply - and an amortized cost. The component manufacturers work out when they want to build to meet the delivery milestones and that's how they get paid.

I think PS5 is $399 to $449 and xsex is $449 to $499. I don't think either goes above $500 - nevermind COVID, I just don't think either Sony or MS planned to go above that and Cerny certainly referred to price point concerns in his presentation.

The sting of PS3's price is all too familiar to Sony and MS are desprate to get back into the console market, they won't be outclassed on price or performance as they were with xb1.

 

[sircaw]

I would really, really like a Blade Runner game.

I like that idea and i would love a Indiana Jones game too.

 

[dr guildo]

Some more conventional variants, a minimalist one and a couple square cases:

 

[Faithless83]

Guys, can we put it to rest and be glad of the generational jump?

PS5 has blast processing.
XSX doesn't.

 

[FeiRR]

But this is a comparison of prices today for componentry in products that will be on the market for 10 years.

Sony and MS are paying what will be a fraction of today's "retail" (that's retail to manufacturers, not consumers) because the costs of those components will reduce significantly. We already know the processor, GPUs and SSDs in these consoles are obsolescent - they're specced from the second half of last year. By this time next year they'll be low grade items and won't command the prices of today. GDDR holds it's value better but that's only one component.

What are you talking about? Those chips they ordered are custom made for both companies. Market prices of PC parts have nothing to do with them. Those are separate agreements between both platform holders and AMD. I agree that some components will become cheaper, like memory and SSD chips but not CPU and GPU, unless a technological process improves, like it usually does during every generation so we get slim versions.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Yeah its sad but IMO Sony didn't dismantle that team for no reason.

Driveclub was delayed a year and it still was launched broken. There has to be some blame with the developer too.

Either way i'm sad there is now no real racing IP in Sony's stable apart from Gran Turismo which while great is getting a bit stale.

 

[Bryank75]

Maximilian Dood saying the lineup for PS5 will be huge!

 

[Dibils2k]

I work as research /computer engineer in some company , my job is to deal with neural network and embedded devices . Just wanted to clarify , things that you see with AI relating to NVIDIA etc won't be available on your consoles. Don't expect them. AMD has years or decade behind in tech. NVIDIA is simply unstoppable so you wont get DLSS2.0 out of nowhere from AMD.
NVIDIA R&D is one of the best teams along with Google,Microsoft,Facebook. AMD's priority is since 2010 to earn market share. They were doing terrible those days. This is what most of their R&D went. NVIDIA was and still doing mighty fine so that was why they saw opportunity with Deep Learning in 2011 (along with technical breakthrough by finding backprop algorithm)

TLDR:

So you won't get any significant AI system working on next gen machines. A chatbot like assistant maybe(from the leaks I saw Playstation supposedly ) but that's not gonna be something much important to users. More like to collect more data about purchase habits, search habits etc it will provide a greater purpose to company itself then users.

Since there wont be a third party ,open source API like for this stuff companies either gonna deal with themselves or dont bother at all. I dont believe companies are gonna hire deep learning software engineers for it. That's simply not priority for most companies.

Though DirectML from looks good but PlayStation doesn't use Direct X so i doubt multi platform developers will care for that. If a third party like AWS supported that sure.
Microsoft first party will probably use it though.

i found it funny that the TLDR was longer then the text before it

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Maximilian Dood saying the lineup for PS5 will be huge!

What is that about skipping 5 and going to 6 about? Also what connections does this guy have? I'm not familiar.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I feel this isn’t gonna age well come the next few years
Sony spends millions on its ICE Team to develop cutting edge tech for its in house engines, and we already know of their big interest in gaming applications for AI. Can’t imagine Microsoft being far behind. Plus AI tools and resources are getting better and more accessible by the minute, in a couple years anyone who’s interested will have access to this sort of tech. Once a company does a big breakthrough it doesn’t take long for others to follow.

TL;DR Tech finds a way

People think Sony has no R&D and their technology stopped progressing since PS2. I believe they started the image recunstrution things with Killzone: SF and then pushed for the 4k reconstructionwith checker board. Why people think they don't have more coming?

 

[Faithless83]

What is that about skipping 5 and going to 6 about? Also what connections does this guy have? I'm not familiar.

As far as I know he has connections. He visited a few studios (Square around FF7R time, close ties with capcom and worked on Killer Instinct promo videos), mostly fighting games related studios. He's a big part of the FGC. That's what I saw he mentioning and videos about it.
I would believe in him.

 

[Bryank75]

What is that about skipping 5 and going to 6 about? Also what connections does this guy have? I'm not familiar.

He is mostly a Youtuber but he is known for fighting games, he is a selectable commentator in Yatagarasu: Attack on Cataclysm, he has contacts at various studios such as Netherrealm. He hosted the Killer Instnct World Cup and lots of other stuff...

He usually gravitates towards Souls games on stream outside fighting games.... but he has played a wide variety of other stuff too on stream.

 

[paypay88]

I hope they do have something, they may have something under super secret wraps to compete with DLSS but you're right, it's hard to see where the money for that is coming from given AMD's awful profits each year even after Ryzen 3000 if you're a pessimist.

I'm more optimistic though, AMD has always had an answer generally to Nvidia tech and vice versa.

They can't magically come up with something. NVIDIA has years of CUDA stack. They didn't come up from nowhere as well. Also don't forget Intel is also helping with with CPU related tasks. Which comes to play when transferring data from CPU and GPU. (Numpy arrays has superior power in Intel CPUs , and Intel actively trying to sabotage AMD CPUs like threadripper)
Basically most if not all machine learning engineers use NVIDIA+Intel products(locally or via cloud)

Sorry, but TL;DR was TL;DR.

I realized after posting it. sorryy

They can use stuff from many other sources. Alot of algorithms are out there enhancing textures and videos. Nvidia has the super computimg capabilities to teach their algorithm and you can buy there service to build your own.

I already explained this , NVIDIA currently only company (that we know of ) has something that works. Sure there are other algorithms and providers but they don't work as NVIDIA DLSS2.0 . If there is going to be a similiar tech to consoles , you can bet it will be from NVIDIA but i don't see how is that gonna work without TensorCores (not available in AMD gpus)

I feel this isn’t gonna age well come the next few years
Sony spends millions on its ICE Team to develop cutting edge tech for its in house engines, and we already know of their big interest in gaming applications for AI. Can’t imagine Microsoft being far behind. Plus AI tools and resources are getting better and more accessible by the minute, in a couple years anyone who’s interested will have access to this sort of tech. Once a company does a big breakthrough it doesn’t take long for others to follow.

TL;DR Tech finds a way

Yeah no. There are still huge differences between tech stacks. It's not easy to get up speed without proper investment. I'm trying to say most studios won't bother to implement a stuff themselves , that would require hiring a entire ML team. If there was a 3rd party company providing them easy to use APIs sure. But there is not currently afaik. Doubt there will be to be honest. Training those networks in scale requires huge stacks of servers , costs would be enormous alone.

i found it funny that the TLDR was longer then the text before it

Sorry

By the way if you guys have any AI specific questions shoot from here or PM. I basically worked 3 years in Autonomous driving and 2 years in AI related to agent behaviors in my PhD

 

[paypay88]

I hope they do have something, they may have something under super secret wraps to compete with DLSS but you're right, it's hard to see where the money for that is coming from given AMD's awful profits each year even after Ryzen 3000 if you're a pessimist.

I'm more optimistic though, AMD has always had an answer generally to Nvidia tech and vice versa.

These are their current solution

https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/MIOpen
https://github.com/GPUOpen-ProfessionalCompute-Libraries/MIVisionX

(They are mostly trash with little to none support). Nobody in industry uses AMD for these stuff from research to actual production systems.
As I said , AMD doing some work here and there but their focus is to get market share not to be leader in AI stuff.

 

[saintjules]

Do we really need to see more of this game? It is releasing soon anyway.

'Padded' content before the storm.

 

[geordiemp]

These are their current solution

https://github.com/ROCmSoftwarePlatform/MIOpen
https://github.com/GPUOpen-ProfessionalCompute-Libraries/MIVisionX

(They are mostly trash with little to none support). Nobody in industry uses AMD for these stuff from research to actual production systems.
As I said , AMD doing some work here and there but their focus is to get market share not to be leader in AI stuff.

The upscaling on the UE5 demo was 1440 to 4K and was perfection, so temporal is fine and its not that big of a deal when you have high quality assets and upscaling very high quality.

So the question is , do we need it anyway ?

 

[Kagero]

Some more conventional variants, a minimalist one and a couple square cases:

Nice work! bring back the square cases please!

 

[saintjules]

Pricing will be revealed during June event, and pre-orders will start

I went to all the sites that are advertising the sign up. Same for PS5. I really hope they go up simultaneous. I'd prefer to get it at Best Buy. First time buying a launch Console online.

 

[saintjules]

imagine the meltdowns if it is 399..

Meltdown in terms of not being able to afford it? Luckily I racked $1500 since 2018 for both Consoles in case. Body is ready lol.

 

[HAL-01]

There are still huge differences between tech stacks. It's not easy to get up speed without proper investment. I'm trying to say most studios won't bother to implement a stuff themselves , that would require hiring a entire ML team.

And im trying to say both MS and Sony got entire teams dedicated specifically to this sort of thing, so that individual studios dont need to. Sony specifically benefits from real time AI upscaling on both their massive Gaming and TV divisions. Not sure how this is so inconceivable considering both corporations are an order of magnitude bigger than Nvidia

 

[paypay88]

And im trying to say both MS and Sony got entire teams dedicated specifically to this sort of thing, so that individual studios dont need to. Sony specifically benefits from real time AI upscaling on both their massive Gaming and TV divisions. Not sure how this is so inconceivable considering both corporations are an order of magnitude bigger than Nvidia

Being bigger doesn't mean anything though. Most companies are bigger then TESLA , yet they have best engineers & models. If you think just throwing money and people solved stuff lol then.
Tesla AI just has 30 people doing all their amazing stuff.
You basically need top brains.
While AUDI ,BMW , Mercedes would spend billions to get there. Their software is joke compared to Tesla.

I guess we will see I never heard Sony stuff so I can't comment on that , but I just heard there will be a Playstation related voice chatbot AI. But still I dont think there will be a thing atleast for end of gen which at that point who knows what will happen.

 

[saintjules]

What is that about skipping 5 and going to 6 about? Also what connections does this guy have? I'm not familiar.

I think it was referring to skipping PS5 and going to PS6. Supposed to be the running joke.

 

[zaitsu]

I think it was referring to skipping PS5 and going to PS6. Supposed to be the running joke.

Yes

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I think it was referring to skipping PS5 and going to PS6. Supposed to be the running joke.

LOL. Is it in reference to Sony being quiet about PS5?

 

[saintjules]

LOL. Is it in reference to Sony being quiet about PS5?

Haha probably as the add-on to that, yep.

 

[HAL-01]

Being bigger doesn't mean anything though. Most companies are bigger then TESLA , yet they have best engineers & models. If you think just throwing money and people solved stuff lol then.
Tesla AI just has 30 people doing all their amazing stuff.
You basically need top brains.
While AUDI ,BMW , Mercedes would spend billions to get there. Their software is joke compared to Tesla.

I guess we will see I never heard Sony stuff so I can't comment on that , but I just heard there will be a Playstation related voice chatbot AI. But still I dont think there will be a thing atleast for end of gen which at that point who knows what will happen.

Your argument was literally that neither sony or microsoft were gonna spend the resources for it.
Now we're moving goalposts apparently resources spent dont matter, nvidias engineers are just better?

Just FYI this was announced a few days ago, turns out AI is a pretty big deal, for sony at least.

 

[Nevaeh]

Your argument was literally that neither sony or microsoft were gonna spend the resources for it.
Now we're moving goalposts apparently resources spent dont matter, nvidias engineers are just better?

Just FYI this was announced a few days ago, turns out AI is a pretty big deal, for sony at least.

 

[M-V2]

Some people are so desperate

Just to be clear, I know him he is a friend on Twitter, he is trolling only, he goes to Xbox page also asking for sea of thieves and Forza for PlayStation, he is just like to bait people and you were one of them

 

[SSfox]