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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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ANIMAL1975

Member
But why do you make the assumption that the demo pushed the PS5 to it's limits? We don't know if that demo would actually need the full 8-9 GB/s compressed speed. Maybe it only used 4? Who knows? Because what we also don't know is that let's say the SSD is able to push 9GB/s of compressed assets constantly. Is it realistic that the GPU is able to render all of this constantly?
The way i see it that's not taking the PS5 to its limits, it's not like the GPU or the CPU being maxed.

Those SSD and i/o capabilities being fully utilized is imo, a matter of good optimization _ and if we think about it, what else should be expected from a demo that was done in exclusive to that hardware and to fully demonstrate the UE5 engine new tech?
I didn't know this, where and when did he say this?
 
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Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Alright you are very close to be ignored.Just look right above the gallery if you are incapable of reading apparently which would probably explain a lot about you.follow the image here

Do you still need help maybe someone can read that out loud to you.
I understand where it went wrong, you're quote isn't completely the same, which is why I was probably looking for the first part ("The Unreal Engine 5 tech demo would"), and just didn't find it. You paraphrased it a bit, which is OK, because I understand what he means, but that's why I didn't find it.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
I understand where it went wrong, you're quote isn't completely the same, which is why I was probably looking for the first part ("The Unreal Engine 5 tech demo would"), and just didn't find it. You paraphrased it a bit, which is OK, because I understand what he means, but that's why I didn't find it.
Oh if it is a simple ctrl+F mistake then apologies It made it seemed like you were intentionally not understanding what was at the end of the article.
Just to let you know I have no problem with each console strengths there's some where it seems more like a tie or a simple we don't know enough yet to tell (like ram bandwith where there is differents opinions about the xbox split ram but for less than 10Gb xbox is faster there's no doubt above it's unclear) but xbox having more CU and Tf will help it in some areas just like the ssd and clock speed will helps the ps5 more.
And as for the cpu it's a tie I think.

But since this demo was a way to demonstrate streaming data and it's efficiency of course it'd run better on ps5.A demo more based on cpu or raw power would favorise xbox.
 

TLZ

Banned



200.gif

What's the hype?
 

geordiemp

Member
You mean a demo designed to run and take advantage of one console would run better on it? Wow what a discovery.

Did he say UE5 runs better in PS5? No. It’s about that particular demo. Here is a fact for you. A demo on UE5 designed solely to take advantage of XSX power is going to run better on XSX.

Yes an UE5 demo that can load smaller assests in RAM and then run it will look nice on XSX.

Its going to be a long generation for some people hanging on to their terrafloppies.

You realise games are going to go nuts with high asset streaming dont you, you better be sitting down when Sony first party show off



Games that dont do this will look like current gen with bells on.
 
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ToadMan

Member
But why do you make the assumption that the demo pushed the PS5 to it's limits? We don't know if that demo would actually need the full 8-9 GB/s compressed speed. Maybe it only used 4? Who knows? Because what we also don't know is that let's say the SSD is able to push 9GB/s of compressed assets constantly. Is it realistic that the GPU is able to render all of this constantly?

Unoptimised code is more processor intensive than optimised so it may well be pushing the PS5 to it's limts now because Epic haven't done enough optimisation steps yet. By release day for UE5 the performance will be a lot better. Perhaps not 60fps or 4K, but better than we saw, but that doesn't mean it isn't maxing out the PS5 throughput today due to inefficiencies.

The PS5 GPU is easily capable of outpacing the SSD - the PS5 SSD while fast is still the slowest part of this system by many orders of magnitude.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
I'll reply to your comment in reverse points - if that's okay. Standard s3_tc/DXT Block compression can be done pretty well in real-time by the hw acceleration texture units on GPU in terms of mid-gen PS2-PS3 texturing, but to use it most effectively for quality texturing for PS3 onwards, each block of the original image is preferably used to measure signal-to-noise ratio against all (meaningful) permutations of chosen end-points (for the compressed block) in an exhaustive search to find the best fit. IIRC compressing with ATI's 3Dc half float compression isn't such a problem for real-time quality but I'm not sure if that's part of BCpack.

As for the first point, it isn't quite clear for UE5 type stuff, but my general comment would be, that I expect xbox to get a benefit with Bcpack on any traditional renderer (like this gen's games) where surfaces are directly lit and discontinuity noise won't be part of some intricate shader or compute calculation. My hunch about UE5 demo is that if it is async compute software rendering as tweets have said then BCpack hw acceleration wouldn't be usable without damaging the work scheduling of the async workload - as it would make compute dependent on the 3D pipeline, when the intention of async is to let tasks on compute, 3D pipeline and DMA transfers from disk intersplice harmoniously in the latency gaps of each of the other tasks to latency hide while sharing the hw resources.

Thinking about the async, we may find that the IO complex and SSD on the PS5 might be critical in just providing more time slice options to deliver data (at convenient opportunities) to keep the other two (compute/3D) working on time, as async compute is (AFAIK) is highly dependent on CPU schedule timing - as latency in the CPU propagates to the GPU async - so offloading IO from the CPU is a double win IMHO for async.

That second paragraph as if you read my mind and broke it down to me. Yes, that was what I wanna learn more about, but I'm not pretty much that educated in that matter though.

My logic behind the question was: If the game is already there (game size occupied in the SSD), and the size is the same, why (double-compress) when they might be already compressed to begin with? Here even Zlib might sound better as it's also lossless AFAIK.

To me it sounds like you order a meal and instead of eating it all you left some leftover. It's better to have something you can fully eat/finish (final results on screen) so you don't pay extra money or waste the extra food (storage).

Many of the things in your post are pretty technically deeper than my knowledge, which I like it but not necessarily fully understood yet but I get the overall idea. Thanks a lot for your time and glad to have you here among us. 🙌
 
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xacto

Member
Just curious.

Right now, with all the info available, would you exchange the PS5 specs for the XSX ones?

I dont :)

Honestly, let me see... Short answer, no; long answer, HELL NO.

And especially Microsoft's practices in promoting their box, they're not sub-par, they're despicable for me. It's just disgusting to see the likes of Spencer and Greenberg stroke Timdog & Co. egos.

But going back to specs.... definitely Xbox is not a bad console; players will have a ton a fun with it, coming from this past generation. I am not into specs that much, I choose things I like, not things that I am supposed to like, because.... reasons.
 
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ToadMan

Member
I think you misunderstood, because I didn't want to minimize the potential of PS5 SSD.

I'm wondering if the speed can be used at its fullest, because this would mean you need a lot more data to stream. You need huge assets that you want to show. So this not only means that someone needs to create this in more detail, it also means that games will be larger, right? I'm eager to learn and find out once the games release if we're really going to get much more beautiful and rich world's thanks to this SSD.

I don't think the games will be larger - they'll be less small! lol

OK that sounds like the same thing but it's not. What I mean is those bits of games that designers had to consider in order to allow assets to load - they won't be necessary. Elevators, corridors, mazes, forced walking sections all that stuff will be present becuse the desginer wants it, not because it's hiding some technical limit of loading data.

HZD is the famous example - Guerrilla wanted flight to be possible but coudn't do it due to the HDD streaming the level. The games won't necessarily be larger, they'll be more detailed, more natural and more open if the desingers want it that way. On PS5 anyway - the MS platforms have different constraints to work within so let's see what they can manage.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Noticed they did a slogan swap.

"Play the future" ... "Beta tested in the future"

"Power your dreams" ... "Sony literally released Dreams in which you are only limited by your imagination"

I see you guys, I see you.

Beta Tested in the future is terrible. Just plain trash. Clearly an idea to appeal to nerd sensibilities.

Power your dreams, I like that. Power is obviously a strong word. But it could work with anything, I could use it in a car commercial you know?

Play the future? That's good, that's real good. If they are going with that I love it because once again they put play in it. "For the players", "Play the future". Playstation. You know, because you play games. Chef's kiss on that.
 
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zubairali2

Member
If there is a full Sony event on June 3, they must announce it like... now. There is no way they will make a last minute announcement for something so important, they must want as many eyes on the live event as possible for social media noise.

If come Friday evening we still heard nothing from Sony, it's not happening on the 3rd.

i agree but maybe they could announce it a day or two before like with the road to ps5
 

Gediminas

Banned
If there is a full Sony event on June 3, they must announce it like... now. There is no way they will make a last minute announcement for something so important, they must want as many eyes on the live event as possible for social media noise.

If come Friday evening we still heard nothing from Sony, it's not happening on the 3rd.
they will announce it after TLOU2 presentation. so tomorrow at earliest and most probably.
 
Honestly, let me see... Short answer, no; long answer, HELL NO.

And especially Microsoft's practices in promoting their box, they're no sub-par, they're despicable for me. It's just disgusting to see the likes of Spencer and Greenberg stroke Timdog & Co. egos.

But going back to specs.... definitely Xbox is not a bad console; players will have a ton a fun with it, coming from this past generation. I am not into specs that much, I choose things I like, not things that I am supposed to like, because.... reasons.
Totally agree.

I am under the impression that Sony has outsmarted MS once again.

The last time I saw a neo troll "reminding" us that the Xbox Series X has 12tf was like 500 pages back :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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saintjules

Member
Didn't he have that between 2 and 4 for a while now?

It was being played as June 4th for a while as we've seen. Then it was the shifting by a couple days to somewhere in early June (which gives the window of the first two weeks). Now this seems to pinpoint June 3rd. Unofficially speaking of course.

As an aside, It would be a bit underwhelming if a majority of those "38" games shown on the OPM June issue makes their way. I think it's safe to say Sony is trimming the fat on a majority of those 3rd party games and sticking to mostly 1st party content. Just a guess, but all points to being a good showcase.
 
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