xacto
Member
Good, they've denied first, laughed at it, and then now they submit to Mark Cerny.
They reached the "acceptance" phase, it seems. Better later than never. I hope it didn't hurt their manly feelings too much...
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They reached the "acceptance" phase, it seems. Better later than never. I hope it didn't hurt their manly feelings too much...
Bo_Hazem
Banned
That's a lot of milkshake, hot damn!!! Still, what do you say? A Team Cerny wall of fame thing à la train? But with more... "personality?"
I would sit in front of her, wouldn't want something poking me in the wrong place.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
No shit.
This statement leaves Microsoft and the Series X in a really bad position. Just imagine Phil Spencer reading this.
Tim Sweeney;
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FeiRR
Banned
Why would you need another store on PS5 to buy games? Pointless.
xacto
Member
I am sorry I am this shallow, I know... but he lost me after "ladies and gentlemen" intro... after that I had to watch my strawberries grow. So the take of the video was.... what? That PS5 is more beastly than the usual Xbox fans thought?
Physiognomonics
Member
It doesn't mean anything, it's just some PR 'Me too'. PS4 also had dedicated audio hardware but it was just to decompress audio. For 3D audio you need plenty of power and MS never stated anywhere their audio hardware would be enough for that, because it won't. They'll need CPU time for anything power hungry like 3D or reverb effect etc.
Even Gameboy or 3DS has "dedicated audio hardware", it doesn't mean it's enough to process 3D audio or HTRF which needs tons of real-time processing. Only PS5 could be able to process HTRF (high quality 3D audio) or 3D effects like reverb and such for free in all games, even multiplat games.
Radical_3d
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It's pretty costy for Sony, doable but costy. It's not happening.
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ToadMan
Member
This isn’t quite accurate.
The GPU is limited to 10Gb of faster RAM. They needed this to be able to feed the gpu quickly enough.
The CPU, File I/o and everything other than the GPU accesses all memory - not just the 6gb - at the slow rate of 336GB/S.
2.5gb is estimated to be consumed by the O/S., so games will fit into 10gb of gpu memory, the rest has to fit in 3.5gb - sound, AI, game state etc. If they expand beyond 2.5gb they start to use up the fast vram space.
Anyway, simple answer is Xsex will be limited to 10gb vram since the cost of copying data between the slow and fast parts of memory is expensive in time and computation.
Presumably MS took this approach to save money/reduce cost.
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Snowdonhoffen
Member
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BadBreathOfTheWild
Banned
Is it confirmed that XSX is using AMD’s TrueAudioNext for audio processing, or is that just a best guess?
xacto
Member
For all you people claiming that 2020 is the worst year since forever, keep in mind that this year ends with a ps5 in our living rooms.
It depends, the doom-and-gloom team says you gotta pre-order it and then go out there and fight to retrieve it, because no home delivery, and all that is going to happen if the supplies are high enough. Which apparently, for Sony is not the case, cause for some half-assed reason they didn't know and didn't plan for COVID-19, riots in USA, and the melting of the ice caps.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Nope, their solution is barely better than current gen. For TrueAudio Next, AMD reserves 4 CU's for it, and support only 128 sources:
They'll use ordinary, CPU-based, semi-3D audio like in the UE4 already, but will mostly free the CPU by their own dedicated processing chip:
XSX should spare its CU's for that to match the Tempest, and not sure if it'll work out properly.
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xacto
Member
That's fair
Dogs at both ends of the life cycle commonly chew their tails. Young pups chew their tails as they become aware of their body parts. Imagine puppies thinking, “What is that thing following me around? I’ll grab it and see.” Pups consider the tail as a toy rather than anatomy. Youthful tail chasing is usually a passing phase that doesn’t require intervention.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, older dogs chew their tails due to decreased awareness. When mental acuity diminishes, dogs may engage in more repetitive behaviors such as tail chewing. In this case, chewing indicates a cognitive disorder that may require behavior modification medications.
So... is it for fun, or because they're getting old? That dog was an adult, not a puppy?
I know, this lack of info from Sony is making me a worse person than I am
SSfox
Member
thurnishaleygw
Member
A couple of thoughts on the UE5/SSD/Loading times ordeal:
First of all, I am very much of the idea that the Series X is a phenomenal console, so bear with me here those of you who have a preference for Xbox, even if I seem to praise PS5 and as try to unravel my thoughts on all of this. And feel free to correct me where I may be wrong, I'm surely going to be wrong in some things.
This whole "games 30/40 hour games won't be able to look like the tech demo" thing is debatable. Debatable from the point of view that I would think the magnitude that would be of importance would be size of scenarios/map, number of assets, not necessarily hours of gameplay. Meaning, you could do a 40 hour game on a fairly small map. What's to take into consideration when thinking about number of assets and quality of those assets is not the duration of the story, but the scenario the story takes place at. But, for the sake of my next argument, I'll indulge on it. And it might very well be a true statement, of course, I'm merely saying that I don't think it was properly presented to make the point they wanted to make.
And still, UE5 has tailored its I/O subsystems with PS5 in mind.
Now, even after we accept that big worlds cannot be made in that level of detail, and therefore, the SSD advantage from PS5 over Series X is dimmed, does that actually mean that the only difference that we would be able to extract are loading times? That the PS5 SSD won't be able to provide anything of value over what Series X can do?
The answer to those questions lies on what it is, in my opinion, the big paradigm shift that the PS5 SSD introduces. It's not about graphics, it's not about LOD, it's about game design.
Meaning, you could potentially design games that do things that the Series X absolutely can't, because of its speed. Something based on incredibly fast traversing, or something that needs of that speed to change scenarios in a blink of an eye, to put a couple of examples.
And, of course, here I'm taking into consideration first party games too, not just games made on UE5, but the point stands, that as I said, the big paradigm shift PS5 offers is game design, not loading times, not graphics. Those are aspects the Series X improves upon too, but, giving developers freedom to think outside of the box and come up with new ideas on how to leverage that speed and the usage of the SSD? That's PS5 territory, and it builds upon creativity, which is something of the utmost importance to me.
This is all my opinion, of course, but just saying that lower loading times is all the PS5 SSD can do, I think is dead wrong.
First of all, I am very much of the idea that the Series X is a phenomenal console, so bear with me here those of you who have a preference for Xbox, even if I seem to praise PS5 and as try to unravel my thoughts on all of this. And feel free to correct me where I may be wrong, I'm surely going to be wrong in some things.
This whole "games 30/40 hour games won't be able to look like the tech demo" thing is debatable. Debatable from the point of view that I would think the magnitude that would be of importance would be size of scenarios/map, number of assets, not necessarily hours of gameplay. Meaning, you could do a 40 hour game on a fairly small map. What's to take into consideration when thinking about number of assets and quality of those assets is not the duration of the story, but the scenario the story takes place at. But, for the sake of my next argument, I'll indulge on it. And it might very well be a true statement, of course, I'm merely saying that I don't think it was properly presented to make the point they wanted to make.
And still, UE5 has tailored its I/O subsystems with PS5 in mind.
Now, even after we accept that big worlds cannot be made in that level of detail, and therefore, the SSD advantage from PS5 over Series X is dimmed, does that actually mean that the only difference that we would be able to extract are loading times? That the PS5 SSD won't be able to provide anything of value over what Series X can do?
The answer to those questions lies on what it is, in my opinion, the big paradigm shift that the PS5 SSD introduces. It's not about graphics, it's not about LOD, it's about game design.
Meaning, you could potentially design games that do things that the Series X absolutely can't, because of its speed. Something based on incredibly fast traversing, or something that needs of that speed to change scenarios in a blink of an eye, to put a couple of examples.
And, of course, here I'm taking into consideration first party games too, not just games made on UE5, but the point stands, that as I said, the big paradigm shift PS5 offers is game design, not loading times, not graphics. Those are aspects the Series X improves upon too, but, giving developers freedom to think outside of the box and come up with new ideas on how to leverage that speed and the usage of the SSD? That's PS5 territory, and it builds upon creativity, which is something of the utmost importance to me.
This is all my opinion, of course, but just saying that lower loading times is all the PS5 SSD can do, I think is dead wrong.
thurnishaleygw
Member
Big brain replyDogs at both ends of the life cycle commonly chew their tails. Young pups chew their tails as they become aware of their body parts. Imagine puppies thinking, “What is that thing following me around? I’ll grab it and see.” Pups consider the tail as a toy rather than anatomy. Youthful tail chasing is usually a passing phase that doesn’t require intervention.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, older dogs chew their tails due to decreased awareness. When mental acuity diminishes, dogs may engage in more repetitive behaviors such as tail chewing. In this case, chewing indicates a cognitive disorder that may require behavior modification medications.
So... is it for fun, or because they're getting old? That dog was an adult, not a puppy?
I know, this lack of info from Sony is making me a worse person than I am
xacto
Member
Big brain reply
I know a little more about dogs than I know about console tech at this point, but I am getting schooled each day in here by my better peers.
And that dog reply was a poor job of copy/paste, I am not that "wordy" myself, but I am cheating the system
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
You know I say this because of a direct quote from the CEO from Mooneye Studios, right? They said the demo could never be made into an actual game because that game would be way too big, hundreds of gigabytes.
But feel free to tell me how the CEO of Mooneye Studios is wrong, I'm obtuse and you apparently know better than actual developers.
EDIT: Quote was not by Epic, but by the CEO of Mooneye Studios. Changed my post for this.
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zaitsu
Banned
Link?
thurnishaleygw
Member
Oh, I love doggos, I was born into a house full of them, and throughout my life there's always been at least a dog in my life. They're the best.I know a little more about dogs than I know about console tech at this point, but I am getting schooled each day in here by my better peers.
And that dog reply was a poor job of copy/paste, I am not that "wordy" myself, but I am cheating the system
xacto
Member
Same here, don't let yourself be fooled by my cat avatar; I like cats, from a distance, but dogs, oh boy....
thurnishaleygw
Member
If we're talking about the same article, it's not from anyone from Epic. It's from Tobias Graff, CEO of Mooneye studios.
thurnishaleygw
Member
I love both really, I also have cats.Same here, don't let yourself be fooled by my cat avatar; I like cats, from a distance, but dogs, oh boy....
They are a bunch of jerks, tho
Metroiddarks
Member
I know you still without understand what is streaming in videogames and how this can improve the graphics, remember both system will use more than before
its SSD as part of ram (always they used but in minor way for the bandwidth issues) for this reason the huge jump in ram was not necessary in the same level than
before and one system focus in this area.
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ToadMan
Member
It’s just 100gb of SSD (based on the game install) that can be accessed with memory calls rather than file I/O. File I/O is slower so “instant” access just means side stepping the file I/O
In that thread people are either deliberately misunderstanding or looking for some hidden physics defying tech to close the gap on PS5.
As it happens, assuming I’m understanding what Cerny said, the PS5 has effectively the same feature but not limited to 100gb. But there could be a subtle difference or maybe Cerny omitted to mention any game install relative limits to the PS5 solution.
On the other hand, Perhaps MS hid some extra high speed memory inside the power supply box with their second gpu lol
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
So basically he is saying that knowing this demo used the capabilities of the PS5 SSD you would need much larger games to get this type of fidelity. If you want to create something similar in actual games you'll have less date but use cheats to make that happen. Less data means that slower SSD's can also transfer this data, cheats means processing power (CPU, dedidacated hardware maybe?).
thurnishaleygw
pointed me to that fact that it's not by Epic but another developer, which is true. I'll change my original post. But the content stays the same.Article
Bo_Hazem
Banned
thurnishaleygw
Member
Gotta make up for merely replying with gifs most of the time
Sorry, man, I'm already pushing myself, I'll read it after I wake up.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
Why you did not include this part?So basically he is saying that knowing this demo used the capabilities of the PS5 SSD you would need much larger games to get this type of fidelity. If you want to create something similar in actual games you'll have less date but use cheats to make that happen. Less data means that slower SSD's can also transfer this data, cheats means processing power (CPU, dedidacated hardware maybe?).
Article
Epic Games:
Ref:
thurnishaleygw
zaitsu
FeiRR
ethomaz
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SSfox
Member
Future Games Show delay may hint at new PS5 reveal date
Future Games Show (initially slated for June 6th) has been postponed to June 13th!
We know this was going to show off Quantum Error gameplay which runs on the PS5.
Do we think this possibly hints at the PS5 event being before that by a couple of days? Considering it previously was before the Future Games Show by a couple of days before the postponement.
thurnishaleygw
Member
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Because he hopes that there is a solution in time. That's like saying: "I'll never die, because hopefully there's a cure for aging, we will see in time."Why you did not include this part
Radical_3d
Member
I like that our friend Bo here takes as a personal obligation to read through the entire thread. Considering the amount of nonsense in it… what a hero!
Sorry, man, I'm already pushing myself, I'll read it after I wake up.
BTW is mid day in Middle East!! Bloody hell, Bo. Bloody. Hell.
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
XBOX JAPAN CONFIRMS 2020 SERIES X LAUNCH AS IT ATTEMPTS TO DO ‘MUCH BETTER JOB’
The news was confirmed in a statement supplied to Famitsu, and represents an improved commitment compared to Xbox’s previous console, Xbox One, which arrived almost a year late in Japan compared to the West.
s.famitsu.com
The news was confirmed in a statement supplied to Famitsu, and represents an improved commitment compared to Xbox’s previous console, Xbox One, which arrived almost a year late in Japan compared to the West.
Xbox Series Xは日本国内も“2020年ホリデーシーズン”に発売。対応タイトル情報もまとめてお届け | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com
2020年ホリデーシーズン発売予定の、Xbox Series X対応タイトルをまとめて紹介。
s.famitsu.com
FeiRR
Banned
It's just another pole shift from the desperate who have little space left. If you pay close attention to what devs (including our own wonderful
BGs
) have been saying, this was much needed and welcomed by the industry as development costs just kept rising.When you make an AAA game, engine development is a small team, sound design is a small team, etc. but graphics is done by a huge crowd (another crowd is game testers but that's another thing). Until the pandemic, people wanted to earn more every year so costs have been rising but games are still the same price as 10 years ago. That's why we get DLCs, season passes, in-game purchases, games as service and all that hidden crap. The new paradigm will allow every studio, from small to big, to cut costs on content creation.
If you realize that those impressive cave scenes in UE5 demo were created with 6 asset sets of rocks, you know that every dev studio out there is anxiously waiting to implement that technology. I read somewhere than a group of 20 people created this demo in half a year. Now take 500 people and give them 3 years, which is what most huge publishers do. Of course it doesn't scale linearly but also in both directions: assets can be reused, AI can be used to generate content like terrain, vegetation, weather. When you don't have to worry about baking light and textures into the scene, you are free to do other things.
When I look at Division 2 and how incredibly it depicts parts of two real cities, I can't wait to see what devs can do with new technology. Scanning of real life assets is huge and, when you don't have to spend hundreds of hours downsizing the results, will be even bigger.
I call that "games can't be that big" another FUD idea directly from a certain Discord channel. Games can be bigger than ever. Can they be more engaging than the usual 100-hour grind fests? That's up to their designers, not technology.
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Snowdonhoffen
Member
I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is planning to release Xbox Series X on every market a week or two before PS5 just to get some initial advantage over SonyXBOX JAPAN CONFIRMS 2020 SERIES X LAUNCH AS IT ATTEMPTS TO DO ‘MUCH BETTER JOB’
The news was confirmed in a statement supplied to Famitsu, and represents an improved commitment compared to Xbox’s previous console, Xbox One, which arrived almost a year late in Japan compared to the West.
Xbox Series Xは日本国内も“2020年ホリデーシーズン”に発売。対応タイトル情報もまとめてお届け | ゲーム・エンタメ最新情報のファミ通.com
2020年ホリデーシーズン発売予定の、Xbox Series X対応タイトルをまとめて紹介。
kuncol02
Banned
Did you ever heard about thing called "competiton"
You know that's about PC architecture where every piece of data you want to put into graphic card memory need to be placed in system RAM first? XBox don't have that problem since 2 generations.
<<“It’s extremely exciting,” senior sound designer Daniele Galante said of the new console. “We’re going to have a dedicated chip to work with audio, which means we finally won’t have to fight with programmers and artists for memory and CPU power.” >>
Who to believe? Some random guy on internet, or senior sound designer from MS internal studio?
3D audio accelerator is not new technology just invented by Sony. They existed on PC 20 years ago (Yes, we had hrtf based 3d audio in games in late 90s), but company which invented them was destroyed by CreativeLabs which sited since that on their patents. That's just first generation of consoles since these patents have expired.
Lunatic_Gamer
Gold Member
The PS5 Design Reveal Is Coming – Whether Sony Likes It or Not
As manufacturing of the PS5's SoC reportedly nears completion, the likelihood of the console's design leaking early rises sharply.
As manufacturing of the PS5's SoC reportedly nears completion, the likelihood of the console's design leaking early rises sharply.
xacto
Member
The PS5 Design Reveal Is Coming – Whether Sony Likes It or Not
As manufacturing of the PS5's SoC reportedly nears completion, the likelihood of the console's design leaking early rises sharply.
Sony's walking a thin red line, between political correctness and their own interests.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
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xacto
Member
TBiddy
Member
We have no idea how the audio setup looks in the XSX. Bo_Hazem might claim otherwise, but the reality is that the only thing we know is that there is a "dedicated audio chip".
Edit:
Also worth noting that Atmos supports more than 32 sources, even though Bo_Hazem claims otherwise. It sounds like a personal vendetta, but it's certainly odd how much FUD is spread from certain users.
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BGs
Industry Professional
"wonderful"...It's just another pole shift from the desperate who have little space left. If you pay close attention to what devs (including our own wonderful
When you make an AAA game, engine development is a small team, sound design is a small team, etc. but graphics is done by a huge crowd (another crowd is game testers but that's another thing). Until the pandemic, people wanted to earn more every year so costs have been rising but games are still the same price as 10 years ago. That's why we get DLCs, season passes, in-game purchases, games as service and all that hidden crap. The new paradigm will allow every studio, from small to big, to cut costs on content creation.
If you realize that those impressive cave scenes in UE5 demo were created with 6 asset sets of rocks, you know that every dev studio out there is anxiously waiting to implement that technology. I read somewhere than a group of 20 people created this demo in half a year. Now take 500 people and give them 3 years, which is what most huge publishers do. Of course it doesn't scale linearly but also in both directions: assets can be reused, AI can be used to generate content like terrain, vegetation, weather. When you don't have to worry about baking light and textures into the scene, you are free to do other things.
When I look at Division 2 and how incredibly it depicts parts of two real cities, I can't wait to see what devs can do with new technology. Scanning of real life assets is huge and, when you don't have to spend hundreds of hours downsizing the results, will be even bigger.
I call that "games can't be that big" another FUD idea directly from a certain Discord channel. Games can be bigger than ever. Can they be more engaging than the usual 100-hour grind fests? That's up to their designers, not technology.
Wonderful is a wonderful word.
If at the end of next week they have not yet presented the console, my feelings will stop being "wonderful".
splattered
Member
So are we are literally looking at another ps3 era generation then for sony?
System is so advanced its going to cost much more than people are comfortable spending?
System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?
Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?
Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech but also eat up a huge amount of the hard drive? Weee!
This definitely feels like technology that was worth developing but not actually implementing into a console for the masses until mid gen refresh or possibly even a generation forward..
I'm sure some cool stuff will come from it but in the grand scheme of things it may never really amount to anything tangible until other areas in tech can catch up in future generation consoles.
Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.
Sorry im not really going to celebrate this tech when we could have gotten something a bit more conservative so its widely used and didnt make me fork over an extra $100 or $200 for nothing.
System is so advanced its going to cost much more than people are comfortable spending?
System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?
Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?
Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech but also eat up a huge amount of the hard drive? Weee!
This definitely feels like technology that was worth developing but not actually implementing into a console for the masses until mid gen refresh or possibly even a generation forward..
I'm sure some cool stuff will come from it but in the grand scheme of things it may never really amount to anything tangible until other areas in tech can catch up in future generation consoles.
Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.
Sorry im not really going to celebrate this tech when we could have gotten something a bit more conservative so its widely used and didnt make me fork over an extra $100 or $200 for nothing.
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