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[Killer Sakoman]

A couple of thoughts on the UE5/SSD/Loading times ordeal:

First of all, I am very much of the idea that the Series X is a phenomenal console, so bear with me here those of you who have a preference for Xbox, even if I seem to praise PS5 and as try to unravel my thoughts on all of this. And feel free to correct me where I may be wrong, I'm surely going to be wrong in some things.

This whole "games 30/40 hour games won't be able to look like the tech demo" thing is debatable. Debatable from the point of view that I would think the magnitude that would be of importance would be size of scenarios/map, number of assets, not necessarily hours of gameplay. Meaning, you could do a 40 hour game on a fairly small map. What's to take into consideration when thinking about number of assets and quality of those assets is not the duration of the story, but the scenario the story takes place at. But, for the sake of my next argument, I'll indulge on it. And it might very well be a true statement, of course, I'm merely saying that I don't think it was properly presented to make the point they wanted to make.

And still, UE5 has tailored its I/O subsystems with PS5 in mind.

Now, even after we accept that big worlds cannot be made in that level of detail, and therefore, the SSD advantage from PS5 over Series X is dimmed, does that actually mean that the only difference that we would be able to extract are loading times? That the PS5 SSD won't be able to provide anything of value over what Series X can do?

The answer to those questions lies on what it is, in my opinion, the big paradigm shift that the PS5 SSD introduces. It's not about graphics, it's not about LOD, it's about game design.

Meaning, you could potentially design games that do things that the Series X absolutely can't, because of its speed. Something based on incredibly fast traversing, or something that needs of that speed to change scenarios in a blink of an eye, to put a couple of examples.

And, of course, here I'm taking into consideration first party games too, not just games made on UE5, but the point stands, that as I said, the big paradigm shift PS5 offers is game design, not loading times, not graphics. Those are aspects the Series X improves upon too, but, giving developers freedom to think outside of the box and come up with new ideas on how to leverage that speed and the usage of the SSD? That's PS5 territory, and it builds upon creativity, which is something of the utmost importance to me.

This is all my opinion, of course, but just saying that lower loading times is all the PS5 SSD can do, I think is dead wrong.

200-300GB games will be the common by the mid of this upcoming Generation.

 

[FranXico]

Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.

"Diminishing returns" is a term often used to illustrate how difficult it is to further increase graphical fidelity (i.e., noticeably increasing resolution, models details, etc.) I find using it to trivialize differences in IO performance incredibly disingenuous.

 

[Nevaeh]

So are we are literally looking at another ps3 era generation then for sony?

System is so advanced its going to cost much more than people are comfortable spending?

System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?

Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?

Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech but also eat up a huge amount of the hard drive? Weee!

This definitely feels like technology that was worth developing but not actually implementing into a console for the masses until mid gen refresh or possibly even a generation forward..

I'm sure some cool stuff will come from it but in the grand scheme of things it may never really amount to anything tangible until other areas in tech can catch up in future generation consoles.

Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.

Sorry im not really going to celebrate this tech when we could have gotten something a bit more conservative so its widely used and didnt make me fork over an extra $100 or $200 for nothing.

TLDR: I'm just trying to spread FUD guys, stop talking about the ssd and I/O please!

 

[Killer Sakoman]

That train will be messy, man.

I can imagine what happened here

 

[thurnishaleygw]

200-300GB games will be the common by the mid of this upcoming Generation.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind it. I know it's a hassle for most people, but fortunately I have a pretty fast connection and I wouldn't mind having to erase files, download, and all that stuff.

 

[IkarugaDE]

So are we are literally looking at another ps3 era generation then for sony?

System is so advanced its going to cost much more than people are comfortable spending?

It's another time. Life is getting more expensive, people earn more money. 600$ today (if it goes to 600 anyway) is different to 600$ 14 years ago. Furthermore more people spend nearly 1000$ or more for devices today, which wasn't the case in 2006. Mobiles, tablets, etc. The inhibition threshold is significantly lower today.

System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?

The PS3 was strong but a extremely complicated tech and hard to develope for. It is absolutely no comparison to the PS5.

Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?

What exact bottlenecks you see/read about?

Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech but also eat up a huge amount of the hard drive? Weee!

IMO Sony wouldn't decide to put in a ~820GB SSD if it only reaches for 5 games. Series X will have 1TB. Same thing there. I wouldn't worry about that at the moment.

This definitely feels like technology that was worth developing but not actually implementing into a console for the masses until mid gen refresh or possibly even a generation forward..

Mh, I really feel it's the right step. I'd rather have a $ 600 console than buying a midgen refresh after 3 years.

Sorry im not really going to celebrate this tech when we could have gotten something a bit more conservative so its widely used and didnt make me fork over an extra $100 or $200 for nothing.

It's the right step to not making a 300-400$ console with some upgraded tech only again. You'll not pay for "nothing".

By the way, after you named "bottleneck": HDDs are bottlenecks since years on consoles and PCs. Back in 2008 and earlier, hard drives were by far the slowest component in PC systems compared to Core2Duo-CPUs, DDR3 memory and other stuff. It is more than overdue that these are not simply replaced with SSDs, but that technology is emerging that significantly improves the collaboration between storage and the other system components. Sony had released strong, but not exactly convincing and future-oriented hardware with the PS3. This looks absolutely different with the PS5.

 

[Nickolaidas]

So are we are literally looking at another ps3 era generation then for sony?

System is so advanced its going to cost much more than people are comfortable spending?

System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?

Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?

Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech but also eat up a huge amount of the hard drive? Weee!

This definitely feels like technology that was worth developing but not actually implementing into a console for the masses until mid gen refresh or possibly even a generation forward..

I'm sure some cool stuff will come from it but in the grand scheme of things it may never really amount to anything tangible until other areas in tech can catch up in future generation consoles.

Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.

Sorry im not really going to celebrate this tech when we could have gotten something a bit more conservative so its widely used and didnt make me fork over an extra $100 or $200 for nothing.

PS3 was a nightmare to develop for, because of its alien architecture.

PS5 is a dream to develop for, because it is incredibly easy.

Aside from the price, I see no similarities.

 

[DrDamn]

System is so advanced it *could* do some amazingly awesome things but may never actually be taken advantage of to its full potential?

Whats the point of the incredible speed breakthroughs if there are still other major bottlenecks holding us back from actually seeing it used to the full potential in large scale AAA games?

Aside from the point that this sort of stuff will always be taken advantage of by first party studios, one of the key points here is that these design decisions are based on developer discussions and implemented in a way to make them easy to use and exploit - not something which could be said about the PS3. They have also considered storage space requirements - it was covered by Cerny in the deep dive.

 

[FeiRR]

I can imagine what happened here

Looks like a firehose got clogged with milkshake because its architecture couldn't keep up with all the velocity.

 

[zaitsu]

Because he hopes that there is a solution in time. That's like saying: "I'll never die, because hopefully there's a cure for aging, we will see in time."

You mean like hope that velocity architecture is close enough to Sony solution ? Far fetched Logic. You choose what you want to belive.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

I'm seeing people say that there is no way PS5 is releasing this year because the SoC is just entering final stages of production... people claiming there is no console at all because it's too late to be making tests and if it relases this year it wil be a rushed product, even some others have been saying "If PS5 is not yet finished, there is no way the UE5 demo was running on PS5! Sony is just paying them to say it is" (I'm not kidding, I read that comment on a FB post) I'm going to be impressed if this new FUD spreads further

 

[Thirty7ven]

Searching for bottlenecks fast becoming a daily pastime for some people.

 

[zaitsu]

"wonderful"...

Wonderful is a wonderful word.

If at the end of next week they have not yet presented the console, my feelings will stop being "wonderful".

After Seeing how other Events changed their schedule in next week, and my friend who is junior in CDP said they have “reason” ( he knows nothing more, it could be not ps5 related ) to espace from 11 I think 11-12 June is still on play.

 

[Zoro7]

Why are we so against facts on this forum.
Cerny said RDNA 2 people said it wasn’t.
Cerny said 10TF people said 9.
Sony literally just said they are on target for a holiday 2020 release, people here are still saying it might be delayed.

 

[sircaw]

.

That train will be messy, man.

The scary thing is that's just me.

 

[pawel86ck]

Check the Medium trailer. It will be possible but with less fidelity than PS5. How much, we don't know yet. I expect quite a lot but, at the same time, there are many ways to cover that with tricks. It's more of a pain for developers than gamers.


This is huge. He's just told the entire industry that Sony left them behind in a puddle of tears. PC hardware will catch up soon but Xbox... Please understand why our games smell of last gen. Please be excited for a mid-gen refresh in 3 years. Please use the cloud in the meanwhile.

MS also thought about I/O bottlenecks and whole velocity architecture is build to address that.
Tim Sweeney mention specifically HW decompression and XSX also has it.

Also keep in mind we still dont know everything about XSX architecture. PS5 presentation was more detailed because Cerny wanted to address developers, but XSX presentation was more general. We dont know NOTHING in regards to XSX audio block and maybe MS also build some additional blocks for I/O they didnt mentioned yet? You guys are making definitive conclusions too soon.

Hellblade 2 looks last gen to you? Yes UE5 tech demo looks more impressive, but it sets unrealistic expectations, because developers will have to downgrade assets anyway because of game size limits. These games with disappointing graphics will also launch on PS5 if you havent noticed. I'm expecting to be blown away with PS5 exclusives, but lets be realistic. There's little hope real games will match UE5 tech demo graphics fidelity.

 

[ToadMan]

Are we just going to get a bunch of neat tech demo style mini games that take advantage of the speed tech

Scorn dev very well may have been right with his diminishing returns statement.

Scorn is an 8-10 hour game for an “average” player according to the studio... thats 5 hours for an actual player.

And you’re worried about tech demos on PS5! 50% of the announced Xsex exclusives will be done and finished the same day you buy the console lol

Sony haven’t announced their exclusives yet - but HZD2 seems to be fairly well accepted. I’m gonna assume it’s still cutting-edge graphically and it’s still an open world game.

So immediately just considering those 2 your argument is backwards or just straight incorrect. HZD2 is clearly a AAA full game for PS5, Scorn is a cash in on new hardware with the bare minimum required to put a $60 price tag on it.

Oh and PS3, despite its cost, still outsold x360 Worldwide. People will pay for quality 1st party games.

 

[Lethal01]

I just want to find out what the tempest engine can be used for beside audio. Surely a perfect cell can't be that inflexible.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Did you ever heard about thing called "competiton"



You know that's about PC architecture where every piece of data you want to put into graphic card memory need to be placed in system RAM first? XBox don't have that problem since 2 generations.



<<“It’s extremely exciting,” senior sound designer Daniele Galante said of the new console. “We’re going to have a dedicated chip to work with audio, which means we finally won’t have to fight with programmers and artists for memory and CPU power.” >>
Who to believe? Some random guy on internet, or senior sound designer from MS internal studio?
3D audio accelerator is not new technology just invented by Sony. They existed on PC 20 years ago (Yes, we had hrtf based 3d audio in games in late 90s), but company which invented them was destroyed by CreativeLabs which sited since that on their patents. That's just first generation of consoles since these patents have expired.

What about listening to what they have to say about it: This is how they precisely describe the usefulness of their audio hardware:

To work with audio.

Pretty vague as a description I'd say. Did they say they could do reverb with it? did they say they could fully process 3D audio or HTRF with it? It could mean many things.

Show me where they say their audio hardware would be able to do all those things on its own.

 

[dr guildo]

"Diminishing returns" is a term often used to illustrate how difficult it is to further increase graphical fidelity (i.e., noticeably increasing resolution, models details, etc.) I find using it to trivialize differences in IO performance incredibly disingenuous.

Diminishing returns was set for traditionnal graphics pipelines. It didn't take REYES into account.
Reyes is the real game changer in online rendering, PS5 is very well suited for REYES rendering. The "1s of gameplay" thing charging RAM with only what the player is seeing feat micropolygons, is all about this. If you watch Mark Cerny's Road to PS5, he spoke about that @10mn02.

 

[zaitsu]

MS also thought about I/O bottlenecks and whole velocity architecture is build to address that.
Tim Sweeney mention specifically HW decompression and XSX also has it.

Also keep in mind we still dont know everything about XSX architecture. PS5 presentation was more detailed because Cerny wanted to address developers, but XSX presentation was more general. We dont know NOTHING in regards to XSX audio block and maybe MS also build some additional blocks for I/O they didnt mentioned yet? You guys are making definitive conclusions too soon.

Hellblade 2 looks last gen to you? Yes UE5 tech demo looks more impressive, but it sets unrealistic expectations, because developers will have to downgrade assets anyway because of game size limits. These games with disappointing graphics will also launch on PS5 if you havent noticed. I'm expecting to be blown away with PS5 exclusives, but lets be realistic. There's little hope real games will match UE5 tech demo graphics fidelity.

Microsoft always brag about their strong points.
VA architecture was presented as something so much better than HDD. But it was overshined by 12TF.
On the other side Sony was clear : we are Going for I/O bottlenck and making best solution in whole Gaming industry. Not only better than hdd but better than everything on the market. GPU is nothing special on paper but it should be enough if you combo This with our solution.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

 

[kensama]

Why are we so against facts on this forum.
Cerny said RDNA 2 people said it wasn’t.
Cerny said 10TF people said 9.
Sony literally just said they are on target for a holiday 2020 release, people here are still saying it might be delayed.

MS's fanboys warrior don't like fact.

Because for them, PS5 must be a master system power RAW like and MS must win next gen era.

Yeah that's stupid and by certain side this is a mentally disordered thinking but that's also a fact that some MS's fanboys are mentally illed (it's the same for other company fanboys)

 

[sircaw]

I am slightly confused here, can some one help me understand this a tad bit better . I think i have muddled up my understanding of this.

I thought that both consoles had dedicated sound chips/ hardware.

So after watching that video, Sony has a dedicated piece of hardware (Tempest engine,) .
It does not require cpu resources to power it or process the sounds from it.

Microsoft has a sound engine( Project Acoustics) but has no dedicated hardware chip so it still requires the console's cpu to process its effects.

Not sure if i explained it correctly but does this sound right?

 

[pasterpl]

With all of these rumours about ms planning to sell over 10 million xbsex in the first 12 months do you think they will go with crazy low price? E.g. $299-$349 + 3 months of game pass? This would obviously generate a huge loss, somewhere between $150-$200 per console sold but would allowed them to capture huge % of the early adopters market.

 

[Inviusx]

10 hours from now we would have had PS5 games.

 

[pasterpl]

Microsoft has a sound engine( Project Acoustics) but has no dedicated hardware chip so it still requires the console's cpu to process its effects.

There are multiple reports that say that there is a dedicated audio chip in xbsex.

An Xbox Wire article added, "Xbox Series X has custom audio hardware to offload audio processing from the CPU, dramatically improving the accessibility, quality, and performance of these immersive experiences." Ninja Theory also confirmed to us that the Xbox Series X featured dedicated audio hardware.

Xbox Series X features a dedicated audio chip, confirms Microsoft

Let's set the record straight.

www.windowscentral.com

i know that this is from windows central but there are multiple other sources.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So RAD Bink middleware has been updated and shows the PS5 NDA has ended and indicates the system is at SDK v1.0:

Changes from 2.7r/1.300r to 2020.06 (06-03-2020)

• New version numbers - just YYYY.MM now. Easier to tell when your version is getting old!
• The RAD Video Tools are all now 64-bit only. Tools are 20% to 45% faster. Under 32-bit Windows, only video playback is available.
• The tool command lines are all the same, but they are embedded within radvideo64.exe. So, if the old command was 'binkmix.exe a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2', then the new command would be 'radvideo64.exe binkmix a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2'
• Added UE4 4.25 support for all platforms.
• Updated to PS4 SDK 7.5.
• Updated to PS5 SDK 1.0.
• Updated to secret platform 2020-05.
• Updated to Emscripten 1.39.15.
• Added asmJS support for Emscripten.
• Added support for Xaudio 2.9 on Windows.
• Added support for preloading Bink files into memory in the plugin shim (for Unity and UE4).

Bink Development History

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

 

[FeiRR]

MS also thought about I/O bottlenecks and whole velocity architecture is build to address that.
Tim Sweeney mention specifically HW decompression and XSX also has it.

XSX also has little LEDs and a power cord. This means nothing until demonstrated. So far, game switching says it's way slower but that's not a very good proof.

Also keep in mind we still dont know everything about XSX architecture. PS5 presentation was more detailed because Cerny wanted to address developers, but XSX presentation was more general. We dont know NOTHING in regards to XSX audio block and maybe MS also build some additional blocks for I/O they didnt mentioned yet? You guys are making definitive conclusions too soon.

Yes, I'm making a conclusion. Maybe I know things, maybe not. I don't want to end up as a dead pigeon. Your arguments are the secret GPU in the powerbrick level.

Hellblade 2 looks last gen to you?

CGI can be anything.

 

[zaitsu]

CGI can be anything.

To be fair they stated that is IN-ENGINE, still it's just a cutscene

 

[ToadMan]

I am slightly confused here, can some one help me understand this a tad bit better . I think i have muddled up my understanding of this.

I thought that both consoles had dedicated sound chips/ hardware.

So after watching that video, Sony has a dedicated piece of hardware (Tempest engine,) .
It does not require cpu resources to power it or process the sounds from it.

Microsoft has a sound engine( Project Acoustics) but has no dedicated hardware chip so it still requires the console's cpu to process its effects.

Not sure if i explained it correctly but does this sound right?

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/xbox-series-x-audio/

This article says Xsex does have a specific piece of hardware, doesn’t consume cpu time and access memory via DMA for itself.

All of this drops out of the infinity fabric architecture that AMD provides so it’s relatively straightforward to offer these extra hardware features.

It wouldn’t surprise me to find out MS have done exactly the same as Sony and used a CU base for their sound hardware ....

 

[FeiRR]

To be fair they stated that is IN-ENGINE, still it's just a cutscene

Disney's series Mandalorian is also in-engine. They used UE for special effects.

 

[zaitsu]

So RAD Bink middleware has been updated and shows the PS5 NDA has ended and indicates the system is at SDK v1.0:

Changes from 2.7r/1.300r to 2020.06 (06-03-2020)

• New version numbers - just YYYY.MM now. Easier to tell when your version is getting old!
• The RAD Video Tools are all now 64-bit only. Tools are 20% to 45% faster. Under 32-bit Windows, only video playback is available.
• The tool command lines are all the same, but they are embedded within radvideo64.exe. So, if the old command was 'binkmix.exe a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2', then the new command would be 'radvideo64.exe binkmix a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2'
• Added UE4 4.25 support for all platforms.
• Updated to PS4 SDK 7.5.
• Updated to PS5 SDK 1.0.
• Updated to secret platform 2020-05.
• Updated to Emscripten 1.39.15.
• Added asmJS support for Emscripten.
• Added support for Xaudio 2.9 on Windows.
• Added support for preloading Bink files into memory in the plugin shim (for Unity and UE4).

Bink Development History

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

That's another reason why the wanted today presentation. Again next week APU's are starting being delivered and whole production will start for good. At this etap of production leaks are inevitable, just ask Apple CDP escaping from 11, and other event changes are making me fell comfortable about 11-12 as new event date. And im pretty sure we are getting sneak peek at box itself.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You know I say this because of a direct quote from the CEO from Mooneye Studios, right? They said the demo could never be made into an actual game because that game would be way too big, hundreds of gigabytes.

But feel free to tell me how the CEO of Mooneye Studios is wrong, I'm obtuse and you apparently know better than actual developers.

EDIT: Quote was not by Epic, but by the CEO of Mooneye Studios. Changed my post for this.

Had to look them up, and only found one indie-ish game they made:

No disrespect, but they kinda know nothing about massive games.

 

[zaitsu]

Had to look them up, and only found indie game they made:

No disrespect, but they kinda know nothing about massive games.

I think for their textures HDD was enough

 

[dimaveshkin]

So RAD Bink middleware has been updated and shows the PS5 NDA has ended and indicates the system is at SDK v1.0:

Changes from 2.7r/1.300r to 2020.06 (06-03-2020)

• New version numbers - just YYYY.MM now. Easier to tell when your version is getting old!
• The RAD Video Tools are all now 64-bit only. Tools are 20% to 45% faster. Under 32-bit Windows, only video playback is available.
• The tool command lines are all the same, but they are embedded within radvideo64.exe. So, if the old command was 'binkmix.exe a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2', then the new command would be 'radvideo64.exe binkmix a.bk2 b.wav c.bk2'
• Added UE4 4.25 support for all platforms.
• Updated to PS4 SDK 7.5.
• Updated to PS5 SDK 1.0.
• Updated to secret platform 2020-05.
• Updated to Emscripten 1.39.15.
• Added asmJS support for Emscripten.
• Added support for Xaudio 2.9 on Windows.
• Added support for preloading Bink files into memory in the plugin shim (for Unity and UE4).

Bink Development History

RAD Game Tools' web page. RAD makes Bink Video, the Telemetry Performance Visualization System, and Oodle Data Compression - all popular video game middleware.

www.radgametools.com

What this "secret platform 2020-05" might be? XSX? Lockhart?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

What this secret "platform 2020-05" might be? XSX?

That or the next Switch. On the previous update of Bink this secret platform was added along with UE4 support so I might err toward it being Nintendo related.

 

[geordiemp]

MS also thought about I/O bottlenecks and whole velocity architecture is build to address that.
Tim Sweeney mention specifically HW decompression and XSX also has it.

Also keep in mind we still dont know everything about XSX architecture. PS5 presentation was more detailed because Cerny wanted to address developers, but XSX presentation was more general. We dont know NOTHING in regards to XSX audio block and maybe MS also build some additional blocks for I/O they didnt mentioned yet? You guys are making definitive conclusions too soon.

Hellblade 2 looks last gen to you? Yes UE5 tech demo looks more impressive, but it sets unrealistic expectations, because developers will have to downgrade assets anyway because of game size limits. These games with disappointing graphics will also launch on PS5 if you havent noticed. I'm expecting to be blown away with PS5 exclusives, but lets be realistic. There's little hope real games will match UE5 tech demo graphics fidelity.

 

[Rudius]

At least thy updated their YouTube description to say "soon"

It's been "soon" for such a long time that's kinda funny (or tragic, don't know anymore).

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It’s just 100gb of SSD (based on the game install) that can be accessed with memory calls rather than file I/O. File I/O is slower so “instant” access just means side stepping the file I/O

In that thread people are either deliberately misunderstanding or looking for some hidden physics defying tech to close the gap on PS5.

As it happens, assuming I’m understanding what Cerny said, the PS5 has effectively the same feature but not limited to 100gb. But there could be a subtle difference or maybe Cerny omitted to mention any game install relative limits to the PS5 solution.

On the other hand, Perhaps MS hid some extra high speed memory inside the power supply box with their second gpu lol

You, sir, are SAVAGE

Medal of Savagery

Disclaimer: Endure the side effects of auto-refresh feature.

 

[zaitsu]

Exactly, games developed also for PC could not came close PS5 for some time. It's speculation, but it could happen.

 

[dimaveshkin]

That or the next Switch. On the previous update of Bink this secret platform was added along with UE4 support so I might err toward it being Nintendo related.

Why would they mark XSX as "secret platform" when we basically know almost everything about the console? Yes, Switch (Pro? XL?) or even Lockhart are more likely to be marked as something secret. But on the other hand why would they even add this to a public change log if it says nothing to average user? Those who involved in such a secret project are likely to know this stuff without any public change logs.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Heavenly Sword 2 to be two hours long according to some folks.

 

[CurtBizzy]

What this "secret platform 2020-05" might be? XSX? Lockhart?

PS5 Pro

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I like that our friend Bo here takes as a personal obligation to read through the entire thread. Considering the amount of nonsense in it… what a hero!

BTW is mid day in Middle East!! Bloody hell, Bo. Bloody. Hell.

Haha! Well, it's entertaining, after like the COVID-19 is lifted, schools are back, or even the English Premier League is on I won't have the luxury to read through so much entertaining nonsense, along with many knowledge-dense posts.

Thought about it, yes, I should not sleep during mid day, what I was thinking?

 

[psorcerer]

And now we get to the bottom of the confusion. You're assuming this patent has been implemented in PS5, and are basing everything off that.
That's why you keep talking about the SRAM as being one die with the flash controller, which is shown in this patent, but not what is being referred to as the SRAM when talking about Cerny's slides in the Road to PS5, which is the only concrete information we have, and what "SRAM" meant in this context.

The SRAM labelled in Cerny's slides sits outside of the flash controller die. It is distant from it and unlikely used for lookups.

The SRAM shown in this patent sits inside of where the flash controller is, before the (PCIe) bus to the main SoC, and is likely being experimented with as a way of potentially doing away with expensive DRAM in flash controllers. Whether that made it into PS5 or not is unknown, but also completely irrelevant to the point.

The Cerny slide has SRAM seemingly grouped with the two co-processors in the main SoC IO Complex. It's what this is being used for that is unknown, and the only thing I was talking about when I was mentioning SRAM.
This sits in a different place to what is being shown in the patent images you linked to.

This patent also doesn't extend to half of what you're saying about any file storage API being responsible for how flash memory is provisioned. That is still likely under the control of the flash controller itself, regardless of what kind of memory and custom logic its using to perform its lookups.

I think you haven't read the patent carefully.
Each section starts with an exposition on how bad things are in the current PC SSD architecture and then continues to show how Sony SSD removes that bottleneck.
If you open any SSD tech docs you will see both SRAM and SDRAM in the controller. The function of both is explained in the exposition.
You can also read a pretty coherent docs here http://www.openssd-project.org/mediawiki/images/Jasmine_Tech_Ref_Manual_v.1.4e.pdf (example of a generic PC SSD controller and how it works, take notice what SDRAM and SRAM is used for).

 

[IkarugaDE]

Why would they mark XSX as "secret platform" when we basically know almost everything about the console? Yes, Switch (Pro? XL?) or even Lockhart are more likely to be marked as something secret. But on the other hand why would they even add this to a public change log if it says nothing to average user? Those who involved in such a secret project are likely to know this stuff without any public change logs.

There are still rumors since 2 months. Furthermore there is another rumor with a switch completely without a screen (means normal console only).

 

[zaitsu]

What this "secret platform 2020-05" might be? XSX? Lockhart?

What i found :
(06-26-2018)

• Added a new secret NDA-ed platform.

(10-17-2019)

• Added initial support for a new secret platform. Contact Mitch for details.

(02-17-2020)

• Added a new secret platform. ( i think its the same platform as 10-17-2019 )

(06-03-2020)

• Updated to PS5 SDK 1.0. ( i think its 6-26-2018 NDA-ed platform)
• Updated to secret platform 2020-05. ( i think its the same platform as 10-17-2019 and 02-17-2020)

My conclusion :
- Cerny said they switch to Kraken back in 2017 , Kraken is another RAD tool beside BINK and it was LAST MOMENT decision
- Bink have supported PS5 from 06-26-2018
- they never mention XSX so a new secret platform is just XSX
- Bink support for XSX started in 02-17-2020
- PS5 game development had almost 2 year headstart, and we know for sure that devkits of PS5 could have such a headstart

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Why would they mark XSX as "secret platform" when we basically know almost everything about the console? Yes, Switch (Pro? XL?) or even Lockhart are more likely to be marked as something secret. But on the other hand why would they even add this to a public change log if it says nothing to average user? Those who involved in such a secret project are likely to know this stuff without any public change logs.

Just seems to be how they do things. In February 2013 both consoles were still 'secret' on the updates and both got referred to by name in their July 2013 update. Maybe XSX is a little behind at this point is all (in the SDK)?

 

[zaitsu]

Just seems to be how they do things. In February 2013 both consoles were still 'secret' on the updates and both got referred to by name in their July 2013 update. Maybe XSX is a little behind at this point is all (in the SDK)?

take a look at my post above