Support NeoGAF

[Killer Sakoman]

I can agree but I think they want to push out first what we can expect for the first 1 year on the ps5, and in august after Xobx dropped also their bombs Sony can do a State of Play with other huge games coming in the future to try and shadow what Ms drops...
And then we have the time problem... You cant present allot of things in a good way and have only 60-70 minutes.


Now: open the cat and you will find a SD with the teaser of God Of War 2...

The agenda of this show was officially stated by Jim " show fans what is possible with PS5". We don't need to speculate further. I don't agree with MBG list or your list. This show will demonstrate PS5 features with next gen gameplay from first and third party. I don't even see sony bother to present cross gen launch games unless it demonstrate PS5 BC capabilities. Not sure it they will even bother with tech demos, otherwise wise, they would have kept UE5 demonstration for this show.

 

[Sinthor]

Rumour: Microsoft intends to launch the Xbox Series X before the PS5 by any means, even if the launch games are affected

Rumour: Microsoft intends to launch the Xbox Series X before the PS5 by any means, even if the games are affected Microsoft will try its best to release the Xbox Series X console before the PlayStation 5, even if for this it has to sacrifice the quality of a number of starting games. The team of...

www.neogaf.com

Well, ok. But I don't think this would have any real effect. I mean the 360 had a year advantage...didn't help it win the sales war although that WAS the most successful generation for Microsoft, for sure. So maybe that kind of advantage could be good, but days, weeks even a month or so head start? I am dubious as to how much it would actually help. Although I would like to see BOTH companies letting go of these late November releases. Do it in early October and leave a lot more time for the holiday shopping window. So, interesting, but we'll have to see.

 

[Naddy]

I hope not, I think that series (Fable) is extremely mediocre and hope Sony spend energy/resources on new IPs.

First of all, this rumor is bullshit of course. Secondly, it's not that bad, some on. I really liked Fable II.
This one also has a 89 at Metacritic. How is this mediocre?

 

[Andodalf]

Good luck to him when DF faceoff hits. Put the two GPUs next to each other and you will that XSX gpu is only good at Tflops. Everything else is slower due to frequency. This includes resterization, Geometry, and cache bandwidth. Also PS5 might actually have higher ACEs count (8 vs 4). If anything, the two consoles will output same native resolution with PS5 having superior geometry and textures for obvious reasons.

Strong echos here of the 8 TF FP16 PS4 Pro will outperform One X arguments

First of all, this rumor is bullshit of course. Secondly, it's not that bad, some on. I really liked Fable II.
This one also has a 89 at Metacritic. How is this mediocre?

They don’t need any scores, or reviews, or to play it. They just need to see what platform it was on to form an opinion. Fable killed it, and I hope we see the franchise come back in a big way

 

[chilichote]

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

On paper, the SSD inside the PS5 has the edge over the next-gen SSD inside the Xbox Series X, but according to Mahler, it doesn’t make sense for third-party developers to adjust their titles around Sony’s SSD. Instead, the Ori creator believes that the majority of third-party devs will just develop for the lowest common denominator – e.g. the Xbox Series X and PC.

“I would be shocked if most third party developers would not just develop their games for the lowest common denominator”, Mahler wrote on the ResetEra forums. “I mean, there's literally 0 chance that levels will get changed just because the PS5 can load them faster, simply because it's way too expensive and work intensive to do that.”

“The super-fast PS5 SSD is nice for first party, but it won't make any economical sense to heavily adjust your games to suit one particular platform. On PCs and the Xbox, you'll have to work with what's there. So it's 2 platforms against 1. The scenario pointed out in the OP is highly unlikely.”

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

According to Ori developer Thomas Mahler, the super-fast SSD inside Sony's PS5 will likely only benefit first-party titles as third-party devs will developer for the lowest common denominator.

wccftech.com

It seems the XSeX is now one of the lowest denominator ... from 12 TF and the strongest console in the world to a console that hinders progress because it is not financially worthwhile to design games for the better platform.

I think it's funny^^

 

[SSfox]

Uh, no?

Shu just visited them not too long ago for their PS5 game coming out.

Hummm i though i read this somewhere, but if you say so.

 

[Naddy]

It seems the XSeX is now one of the lowest denominator ... from 12 TF and the strongest console in the world to a console that hinders progress because it is not financially worthwhile to design games for the better platform.

I think it's funny^^

No, it's PC of course. XSX SSD and IO is very fast.

 

[zaitsu]

It seems the XSeX is now one of the lowest denominator ... from 12 TF and the strongest console in the world to a console that hinders progress because it is not financially worthwhile to design games for the better platform ^^

I think it's funny^^

Yeah, its funny how narration has changed even between MS studios.
Then : most powerful console in the world
Now : Ps5 wont be used in 100% in multiplats because these games will ne made for lowest denominator( pc and XSx )

Just wtf .
Are you most powerful console or are you 12TF marketing machine.
Everyday im more conviced that MS didnt know how different PS5 architecture would be. They just made XOX2.0 and PS5 is really futuristic, breaking old barriers and habits machine

 

[Faithless83]

Well he deleted his twitter post because of a bad reaction from upset people? Shouldn't give in to people.

Someone ask him back on here. His profile shows him on on Friday so still active...

No idea how to quote names.

I love the work of digital foundry.

Yes theres a bit of banter about Alex on here but we know he loves PC and he does still release some good content. He seems to leave himself more open to criticism online though.

I love NXgamer's stuff too. I know hes on here occasionally.

He was excited about something and decided to post about it. Then came the swarm.
I know people shouldn't "give in" and some do enjoy the attention and reply to them.
Back in the day I've enjoyed some fierce discussions in forums and such, but not anymore.
Some people just don't want to deal with the constant parade of annoying fanboys.
Can you really blame them?

 

[Sinthor]

Hummm i though i read this somewhere, but if you say so.

No, you're right, There WERE some floating rumors about Housemarque. Just like there have been rumors about other developers being acquired by one side or the other. Like recently remember Konami supposedly being bought by Microsoft?

 

[SSfox]

No, you're right, There WERE some floating rumors about Housemarque. Just like there have been rumors about other developers being acquired by one side or the other. Like recently remember Konami supposedly being bought by Microsoft?

Yeah i was sure it was rumored, cause i wasn't familiar with the studio when i read the rumor so i had to google it

 

[pasterpl]

It seems the XSeX is now one of the lowest denominator ... from 12 TF and the strongest console in the world to a console that hinders progress because it is not financially worthwhile to design games for the better platform.

I think it's funny^^

storage wise pc with mechanical HDd’s And slow ssd’s will be the lowest denominator (Consoles alone it will be xbsex)
in terms of ray tracing it will be pc’s with old gen gpu’s and ps5 will be the lowest denominator (consoles alone it will be ps5)
In terms of gpu it will be pc’s with old gen gpu’s and ps5 will be the lowest denominator (consoles alone it will be ps5)

etc.

 

[hemo memo]

Someone post a countdown please

 

[Naddy]

Yeah, its funny how narration has changed even between MS studios.
Then : most powerful console in the world
Now : Ps5 wont be used in 100% in multiplats because these games will ne made for lowest denominator( pc and XSx )

Just wtf .
Are you most powerful console or are you 12TF marketing machine.
Everyday im more conviced that MS didnt know how different PS5 architecture would be. They just made XOX2.0 and PS5 is really futuristic, breaking old barriers and habits machine

they are just talking about the SSD.
Do you even know how game development works?
Devs simply cant build games around a single SSD, it doesnt work like that. It's not like GPU and CPU.
With CPU you could easily just lower the FPS for a weaker CPU.
With GPU you could easily just reduce the resolution for a weaker GPU.

But with SSD? You can't just scale it like that, this is something different. Devs will just base their games on PC SSD and then we will see better loading times on XSX and PS5. That's it.

 

[Sinthor]

Yeah i was sure it was rumored, cause i wasn't familiar with the studio when i read the rumor so i had to google it

Yeah, it was largely unfounded and just based on user forum guesses, but it was floating out there. Same with Ready At Dawn and Level 5, as I recall.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, it was largely unfounded and just based on user forum guesses, but it was floating out there. Same with Ready At Dawn and Level 5, as I recall.

Oh, so a "rumor".

 

[BGs]

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

On paper, the SSD inside the PS5 has the edge over the next-gen SSD inside the Xbox Series X, but according to Mahler, it doesn’t make sense for third-party developers to adjust their titles around Sony’s SSD. Instead, the Ori creator believes that the majority of third-party devs will just develop for the lowest common denominator – e.g. the Xbox Series X and PC.

“I would be shocked if most third party developers would not just develop their games for the lowest common denominator”, Mahler wrote on the ResetEra forums. “I mean, there's literally 0 chance that levels will get changed just because the PS5 can load them faster, simply because it's way too expensive and work intensive to do that.”

“The super-fast PS5 SSD is nice for first party, but it won't make any economical sense to heavily adjust your games to suit one particular platform. On PCs and the Xbox, you'll have to work with what's there. So it's 2 platforms against 1. The scenario pointed out in the OP is highly unlikely.”

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

According to Ori developer Thomas Mahler, the super-fast SSD inside Sony's PS5 will likely only benefit first-party titles as third-party devs will developer for the lowest common denominator.

wccftech.com

Does that mean that from now on they will also publish their games for PS5?

Or will they continue to work exclusively for Microsoft?

After his totally impartial opinion it has not been clear to me.

Clearly what he says has all its logic within the world in which we live. I will not discuss it. But it is clear that opinion is casually partisan.

 

[jackets with pockets]

Someone post a countdown please

10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 0!

 

[Metroiddarks]

i mean without compomises.

Reduce resolution in less of 20% compare to for example XSX in 2160p is the easiest way, yes probably some studio
use another approach or some just use a reconstruction technique.

But that happens in this generation where most of the dev reduces the resolution of Xbox One in a similar percentage as
the delta in TF so in most the cases I don't see the necessity for reinvent the wheel.

Now if you want your game do what you said probably they will need to focus its engine to use advantages of PS5 but this
is something only the sales of each console will decide.

This would be a great show, if it is what we get

I wanna see The Show running on PS5, wanna see what they can do with the crowds and ballparks

Probably just Foxy winding us up but anyone any ideas about this?





It will help pass the final 48 hours if nothing else!

Why you love to quote this kind of guys

 

[SSfox]

Oh, so a "rumor".

As i said in my first post, "rumored" ^^

 

[zubairali2]

Someone post a countdown please

Create a Countdown Clock

Instantly create a beautiful, animated countdown clock, to share or embed in your website. Count down to a date with your own unique countdown timer.

countingdownto.com

 

[DeepEnigma]

As i said in my first post, "rumored" ^^

But is it a "rUmOrEd"?

 

[Faithless83]

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

On paper, the SSD inside the PS5 has the edge over the next-gen SSD inside the Xbox Series X, but according to Mahler, it doesn’t make sense for third-party developers to adjust their titles around Sony’s SSD. Instead, the Ori creator believes that the majority of third-party devs will just develop for the lowest common denominator – e.g. the Xbox Series X and PC.

“I would be shocked if most third party developers would not just develop their games for the lowest common denominator”, Mahler wrote on the ResetEra forums. “I mean, there's literally 0 chance that levels will get changed just because the PS5 can load them faster, simply because it's way too expensive and work intensive to do that.”

“The super-fast PS5 SSD is nice for first party, but it won't make any economical sense to heavily adjust your games to suit one particular platform. On PCs and the Xbox, you'll have to work with what's there. So it's 2 platforms against 1. The scenario pointed out in the OP is highly unlikely.”

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

According to Ori developer Thomas Mahler, the super-fast SSD inside Sony's PS5 will likely only benefit first-party titles as third-party devs will developer for the lowest common denominator.

wccftech.com

What if we have a n64 vs PS1 situation where they needed disc based media for their vision of FFVII?
Do you think SSD will push more devs to go PS5 exclusive?
I mean, they're prasing the hardware left and right...

 

[Metroiddarks]

I don't know him, so I don't want to defend him, but he has some good takes from what I'm looking at...

Stop quoting fanboys from both sides, the only fanboy allow should be Alex from DF

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

On paper, the SSD inside the PS5 has the edge over the next-gen SSD inside the Xbox Series X, but according to Mahler, it doesn’t make sense for third-party developers to adjust their titles around Sony’s SSD. Instead, the Ori creator believes that the majority of third-party devs will just develop for the lowest common denominator – e.g. the Xbox Series X and PC.

“I would be shocked if most third party developers would not just develop their games for the lowest common denominator”, Mahler wrote on the ResetEra forums. “I mean, there's literally 0 chance that levels will get changed just because the PS5 can load them faster, simply because it's way too expensive and work intensive to do that.”

“The super-fast PS5 SSD is nice for first party, but it won't make any economical sense to heavily adjust your games to suit one particular platform. On PCs and the Xbox, you'll have to work with what's there. So it's 2 platforms against 1. The scenario pointed out in the OP is highly unlikely.”

Ori Dev: PS5’s Super-Fast SSD is Nice For First Party Titles But Multiplats Will Be Developed for the Lowest Common Denominator

According to Ori developer Thomas Mahler, the super-fast SSD inside Sony's PS5 will likely only benefit first-party titles as third-party devs will developer for the lowest common denominator.

wccftech.com

Even when I love the games of Ori .... this guys are far of be the best optimizing things for the lower common denominator.... just play the last Ori in Xbox one.

 

[saintjules]

 

[zaitsu]

they are just talking about the SSD.
Do you even know how game development works?
Devs simply cant build games around a single SSD, it doesnt work like that. It's not like GPU and CPU.
With CPU you could easily just lower the FPS for a weaker CPU.
With GPU you could easily just reduce the resolution for a weaker GPU.

But with SSD? You can't just scale it like that, this is something different. Devs will just base their games on PC SSD and then we will see better loading times on XSX and PS5. That's it.

Im making jokes and you call me to the board? I know nothing ? Dude almost all your statments in that post are on 6year old level of understanding how hardware matter in games.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Strong echos here of the 8 TF FP16 PS4 Pro will outperform One X arguments




They don’t need any scores, or reviews, or to play it. They just need to see what platform it was on to form an opinion. Fable killed it, and I hope we see the franchise come back in a big way

You probably unable to reply. So instead you throw this FP16 bullshit thing on me to make a point.
PS4 pro GPU was inferior to XoneX gpu in all aspects while the GDDR bandwidth was much much smaller. Here the case is totally different. You can resterize faster, more geometry fastet, you have higher cache bandwidth, you have cache scrubers, more memory thanks to the faster IO. There are more stuff regarding the " variable frequency" that xbox fans are making fun off that we didn't see in practice. Just wait for the holidays may dear. The DF faceoffs are coming.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

they are just talking about the SSD.
Do you even know how game development works?
Devs simply cant build games around a single SSD, it doesnt work like that. It's not like GPU and CPU.
With CPU you could easily just lower the FPS for a weaker CPU.
With GPU you could easily just reduce the resolution for a weaker GPU.

But with SSD? You can't just scale it like that, this is something different. Devs will just base their games on PC SSD and then we will see better loading times on XSX and PS5. That's it.

Please tell us more with your extensive knowledge in game development

I'm sure you're qualified

 

[BatSu]

To understand how SSd improves texture loading

 

[zaitsu]

Please tell us more about your extensive knowledge in game development

Yeah im so impressed also. Like dude, he must be at least Naughty engine specialist

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

storage wise pc with mechanical HDd’s And slow ssd’s will be the lowest denominator (Consoles alone it will be xbsex)
in terms of ray tracing it will be pc’s with old gen gpu’s and ps5 will be the lowest denominator (consoles alone it will be ps5)
In terms of gpu it will be pc’s with old gen gpu’s and ps5 will be the lowest denominator (consoles alone it will be ps5)

etc.

Can you please explain how the GPU can be considered lowest common denominator when assets are not rendered in multiple LoDs for the ps5 due to the fast I/O speeds demonstrated in the UE5 demo?
I'll wait...

 

[jose4gg]

I don't know why the "they support Smart Delivery" sounds in my head like "You know that thing MS talks about, which most of the people that buy the console won't understand, yea, that"

 

[saintjules]

 

[zaitsu]

Can you please explain how the GPU can be considered lowest common denominator when assets are not rendered in multiple LoDs for the ps5 due to the fast I/O speeds demonstrated in the UE5 demo?
I'll wait...

Dude 12TF didn't you hear ?

 

[zaitsu]

And on the other side you buy new console to play old games and new games which are also old games with some makeup. Genius. Thank God for sony being selfish bastards pushing industry into the future. I hate being stuck in the past.

 

[Cobenzl]

PS5 Event Bingo Version 2.0

5 out of 10 - no mention of Knack!

 

[Andodalf]

Can you please explain how the GPU can be considered lowest common denominator when assets are not rendered in multiple LoDs for the ps5 due to the fast I/O speeds demonstrated in the UE5 demo?
I'll wait...

Because an SSD can’t render a single pixel. Ever. Under any circumstance. Both consoles can have any number of assets they couldn’t render. GPU will always be the primary bottleneck for real time 3D graphics. Followed by Memory Bandwidth.

 

[FranXico]

And on the other side you buy new console to play old games and new games that are also old games. Genius. Thank God for sony being selfish bastards pushing industry in to the future. I hate being stuck in the past.

He claims to not care for Xbox either and have joined the PCMR.

 

[saintjules]

PS5 Event Bingo Version 2.0

Lol, from Reddit. I found that interesting.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yeah, its funny how narration has changed even between MS studios.
Then : most powerful console in the world
Now : Ps5 wont be used in 100% in multiplats because these games will ne made for lowest denominator( pc and XSx )

Just wtf .
Are you most powerful console or are you 12TF marketing machine.
Everyday im more conviced that MS didnt know how different PS5 architecture would be. They just made XOX2.0 and PS5 is really futuristic, breaking old barriers and habits machine

Designing a game around I/O speed is quite different than taking advantage of a bit more CPU/GPU power.

Devs also aren't going to change their levels to suit a few more TF's or many more TF's on PC... but they could potentially change settings, higher native resolution, better framerate.

Same idea with the PS5 SSD; hardly anyone is going to design games around it... but you'll get better load times, maybe less pop-in, that sort of thing.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

So, he's saying XSX and PC will hold next gen back? Hmm...

Damn, seems like devs and xbox are stuck between admitting it will matter or saying it won't be utilized because the X is the lowest common denominator and PS5 won't be taken advantage of.

Not a good get out.... lol.

 

[Darklor01]

Because an SSD can’t render a single pixel. Ever. Under any circumstance. Both consoles can have any number of assets they couldn’t render. GPU will always be the primary bottleneck for real time 3D graphics. Followed by Memory Bandwidth.

Maybe my logic is backwards here, but without the bandwidth elsewhere to allow a GPU to be a potential bottleneck, other things before the GPU were the bottleneck. The bottlenecks before were not necessarily GPU related. I think, now, the bottlenecks will be in GPU and better more efficient game design/engines.

 

[Handy Fake]

Ah, it was CobraXT again then. Ho ho.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Can you please explain how the GPU can be considered lowest common denominator when assets are not rendered in multiple LoDs for the ps5 due to the fast I/O speeds demonstrated in the UE5 demo?
I'll wait...

That doesn't free up GPU resources though? I really don't think you are describing that correctly... PS5 doesn't have to load lower-detail assets for far away objects when I/O is the bottleneck for that LOD. That doesn't suddenly save GPU power for other tasks.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Because an SSD can’t render a single pixel. Ever. Under any circumstance. Both consoles can have any number of assets they couldn’t render. GPU will always be the primary bottleneck for real time 3D graphics. Followed by Memory Bandwidth.

I don't think you understood my question, but it's ok, I'll expand.
I'm interpreting this "lowest common denominator" talk as a limiting factor for the more "powerful" hardware. With that in mind, and from what we understand now post UE5 demo, game assets will be stored with maximum detail, no lower poly counts are created for when the GPU us struggling or the distance to the object is greater than x. So in this respect, how can the ps5 GPU in any way be considered a limiting factor for other hardware? If anything, it would be a limiting factor for devs having to create multiple LoD assets still for games to run on other machines, not on the ps5.

If the ps5 gpu will limit anything, will be the resolution (probably) or framerate (less likely) when running a multiplatform game optimized for the XSX (would those even exist?)

 

[cerealbuster]

PlayStation has Cross Buy and has had it since the PS3 era. It is optional for developers, just like "Smart Delivery".
Only thing different between the two, is marketing fluff.

Smart Delivery is just a fancy word for crossbuy, don't let MS PR fool you.

Wasn't crossbuy if you buy one game you buy the other one for free? But smart delivery is more like buy once and you have it? But regardless it's frustating that we know nothing about Sonys solution and I doubt we will hear it on thursday. I mean they could announce it like "You hesitate buying tlou2 because of the ps5? Don't worry mate, buy it play it on ps4 then get your ps5 redownload it and play it in glorious real 4k"

But all we got was "ps5 can play the top 100 games from the ps4 (we tested the top but expect 1000s to be playable)"

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

10... 9... 8... 7... 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 0!

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

That doesn't free up GPU resources though? I really don't think you are describing that correctly... PS5 doesn't have to load lower-detail assets for far away objects when I/O is the bottleneck for that LOD. That doesn't suddenly save GPU power for other tasks.

I've expanded on my point on another response, I think we're arguing different things here

 

[zaitsu]

That doesn't free up GPU resources though? I really don't think you are describing that correctly... PS5 doesn't have to load lower-detail assets for far away objects when I/O is the bottleneck for that LOD. That doesn't suddenly save GPU power for other tasks.

XsX - i/o bottleneck
Ps5 - gpu bottleneck or everything balanced

I've heard so many praises from developers here, in person about PS5. Personally I wouldn't change I/O for 2TF. I hope that in 48 it convince some other people thats sacrificing gpu was worth it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wasn't crossbuy if you buy one game you buy the other one for free? But smart delivery is more like buy once and you have it? But regardless it's frustating that we know nothing about Sonys solution and I doubt we will hear it on thursday. I mean they could announce it like "You hesitate buying tlou2 because of the ps5? Don't worry mate, buy it play it on ps4 then get your ps5 redownload it and play it in glorious real 4k"

But all we got was "ps5 can play the top 100 games from the ps4 (we tested the top but expect 1000s to be playable)"

You described the same thing, really. I had versions I bought that gave me PS3/PS4/Vita all in one. It's pretty much the same thing. I would expect the same thing to happen to the PS4>PS5 where it will be a patch, much like the PS4>Pro / X1>X1X is now. And what "Smart Delivery" essentially is. But again, optional, just like EA and others have proven it to be.