bhunachicken
Member
Are we settled on the type of memory? GDDR6 or HBM?
I think AMD lean towards HBM, don't they?
I think AMD lean towards HBM, don't they?
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TeamGhobad
Banned
GDDR6 for sure.
Imtjnotu
Member
I'm going with 12 or 13 and idk why,12 huh?
Evilms
Banned
Sony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...
boards.greenhouse.io
Aceofspades
Banned
Sony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...boards.greenhouse.io
Everything points to PS5 winning the power battle yet again next gen.
MadYarpen
Member
I see a lot of people drawing conclusions from some minor sentences, which for me seem to be nothing more than PR talk TBH... I don't know a lot but it seems naive.
I am not saying PS5 won't be faster, I hope it will in fact. But I think this type of "info" means shit.
I am not saying PS5 won't be faster, I hope it will in fact. But I think this type of "info" means shit.
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ANIMAL1975
Member
My bad, how many of this babys are usually made before the final OEM version? Thanks
"... our next generation CLOUD infrastructure." _ and once again the Shakespearean code namesSony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...boards.greenhouse.io
Little Chicken
Member
Cloud infrastructure?
So really they're just referring to Microsoft's Azure platform...
So really they're just referring to Microsoft's Azure platform...
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Cloud infrastructure?
So really they're just referring to Microsoft's Azure platform...
They currently use AWS.
TLZ
Banned
Gotta go fast!Sony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...boards.greenhouse.io
Fake
Member
GDDR6 for sure.
Negotiator
Member
I don't believe this.
NAND chips are much slower than DRAM ones. They cannot replace DRAM.
Nope.Crazy that we pretty much had the final specs for the PS4/X1 seventeen months away from launch, aside from the RAM sizes
Latest reliable Orbis and Durango specs
Disclaimer: Everything isn't final, but the general range of these system are more or less set in stone. Durango: AMD CPU, 6-8 cores Ram 3-4 GB AMD GPU Total processing power 1-1.2 teraflops Note: I've heard of 8GB ram from reliable people on this form, but a certain, well...www.neogaf.com
"Orbis:
AMD CPU 4 cores x-86
AMD GPU 1150 SPU, 1.8 teraflops, 800 mhz
2GB GDDR5 (unlikely this will be bumped to 4GB)"
We didn't get a quad-core AMD FX at 3.2 GHz, we got octa-core Jaguar at 1.6 GHz.
We didn't get 2GB (how ridiculous would that be?) GDDR5, we got 8GB.
I love the fact that he thought 4GB GDDR5 was unlikely.
The exact same guys think we're gonna get 16GB GDDR6... #LowballGAF represent!We got final specs in Jan 2013:
ORBIS Devkits Roadmap/Types
Sony and Microsoft have had a lot of work with Orbis and Durango. Create a new hardware it’s a long running process, you have to build different versions of hardware and make changes along the core until the last version, the closer one to the retail product. We have created an article with...
vgleaks.com
Have a little patience...
GDDR6, unless a miracle happens (HBM3/organic interposer for lower costs).
Forget HBM2.
When do we expect the switch to Azure to happen?
I was wondering if the latest PS+ cloud space upgrade (100GB) was Azure-related or not.
ANIMAL1975
Member
Cloud infrastructure?
So really they're just referring to Microsoft's Azure platform...
'our' next generation cloud infrastructure, so PSNow. AWS or future Azure rentals are for Playstation Network.
Define "slower"?
TLZ
Banned
Lone Wolf
Member
Can always download more RAM.
bhunachicken
Member
"World's fastest console"?
Does this mean Sony are privy to the final specs of Xbox Scarlett and know the PS5 is the lesser of the machines this gen? If PS5 was the most powerful, they'd've said that. However, they've chosen to say fastest. So, do they know that the PS5 has a higher clock speed, but not much else?
Does this mean Sony are privy to the final specs of Xbox Scarlett and know the PS5 is the lesser of the machines this gen? If PS5 was the most powerful, they'd've said that. However, they've chosen to say fastest. So, do they know that the PS5 has a higher clock speed, but not much else?
Fake
Member
Dunno if true, but Microsoft have being change the way they talk about Scarlet, so...
They can always boost the final product for reduce the specs differences (Xbox One get a boost in clock speed before launch date).
FranXico
Member
I think it's just about load speeds.
TLZ
Banned
Please show me how.
ANIMAL1975
Member
121fps achieved confirmed.
Mass Shift
Member
Maybe Ace, maybe.
Let's say they have the higher clock, but a lower graphic core count. Then it becomes a contest over efficiency vs diminishing returns.
Now if you're MS you can live with Sony making such a declaration while you claim power and efficiency. Watch what happens.
They're both going to claim a performance metric over the other.
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Lone Wolf
Member
Negotiator
Member
Personally, I think Sony needs the performance crown more than MS, even if it's just a single-digit percent difference (same APU, higher clocks due to innovative cooling).
Sony is a PS-focused company these days, while MS is Azure-focused. A PS5 failure would be disastrous for Sony, while XBOX is more of a side project for MS.
The more successful the PS5 is, the more profitable it will be for Azure and thus for MS. Sounds win-win to me.
Sony is a PS-focused company these days, while MS is Azure-focused. A PS5 failure would be disastrous for Sony, while XBOX is more of a side project for MS.
The more successful the PS5 is, the more profitable it will be for Azure and thus for MS. Sounds win-win to me.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I'm really curious if they both have the same CU count. And if Sony really has gone for rediculous high clock speeds.
If they have both gone for 40 active cu's and Sony is clocking at 2000mhz that gives 10.24tflops.
If scarlett is 40 active cu's as well and they clocked at a more reasonable 1700mhz that gives them 8.7tf
If this is true ms should be able to upclock but I doubt they will be able to clock more then 10%, which would give them 9.5tf.
Unless one of them has more active cu's I don't see how the power difference can be more then 1tflop.
If they have both gone for 40 active cu's and Sony is clocking at 2000mhz that gives 10.24tflops.
If scarlett is 40 active cu's as well and they clocked at a more reasonable 1700mhz that gives them 8.7tf
If this is true ms should be able to upclock but I doubt they will be able to clock more then 10%, which would give them 9.5tf.
Unless one of them has more active cu's I don't see how the power difference can be more then 1tflop.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I don't think so, the xbox console is still at the core of there gaming business and thus they will want the best possible success for it,
Neither company will want to be less powerful because its negative PR that sticks.
However if the difference is very small (10% or less) it not to bad for them.
GermanZepp
Member
Maybe you are right, maybe PS5 got better clocks and a couple extra teraflops. Thats why Digitial Foundry: Teraflop computation no longer a relevant measurement for next gen consoles.
Joking
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Negotiator
Member
Well, I'm not talking about 40-50% difference in the GPU department, since that would require wholly different APUs.
I also don't think they're going to abandon XBOX, but that doesn't mean they want PS5 to fail. The Azure partnership changed the dynamics quite a bit.
Maybe MS doesn't care if the PS5 is 5-10% faster, we don't know what they've been discussing behind the scenes. One way or another, they're going to make money, that's for sure.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I doubt either is to fussed over 5-10%, it won't be the preferred situation though.
Negotiator
Member
If the "preferred situation" for them is to have a common APU and exploit economies of scale (single tape-out, book a large amount of 7nm EUV wafers beforehand), then it's highly unlikely to expect bigger differences.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I don't.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Sony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...boards.greenhouse.io
Marketing fluff; remember when Sony said the PS2 was gonna bring us the Matrix and Toy Story graphics? Yeah, never happened xD
It's not even just that; regular NAND chips aren't even byte-addressable for writes, which is a requirement for random-access memories. Nor are they byte-addressable for reads (granted, DRAM isn't either since access is virtualized), and have to be erased at the block level (something DRAM and NOR don't have to resort to).
What that user's might be referring to though is persistent memory 3D NAND. Not the Optane stuff available as fast storage, but the DRAM-like 3D NAND Intel's selling now for server workstations. The prices are really high for that market and you wouldn't be getting anywhere near 64GB's worth if it works out to about $6 or even $4 per GB, but it would essentially act as a larger, slower pool of DRAM with all of its advantages plus being non-volatile.
The question is, would it be worth a given price at a given amount, or just better to go with more RAM? You'd lose the permanent storage but the RAM these systems use would be so much faster anyway (and with way better/smaller latencies; current persistent memory Optane has latencies of around 350 ns) that it wouldn't matter much to just have a slightly larger pool of GDDR6 and a large internal regular NAND storage device (that could be replaceable) and get all of that for the budget you'd throw to persistent 3D NAND in these consoles.
3D NAND would only make sense if they could get it in a size of 64GB or greater and at around $1 per GB or cheaper; since you can't even get QLC NAND that cheap (not just referring to public wholesaler rates; not even private clients can get it at those prices), there's no way in hell Intel or Micron are going to sell Sony and Microsoft 3D NAND at a price per GB cheaper than what it costs them to manufacture.
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Munki
Member
Sony job ad declares PS5 as the "world’s fastest console"
Sony Interactive Entertainment PlayStation
PlayStation isn’t just the Best Place to Play —it’s also the Best Place to Work. We’ve thrilled gamers since 1994, when we launched the original PlayStation. Today, we’re recognized as a global leader in interactive and digital entertainment. The PlayStation brand falls under Sony Interactive...boards.greenhouse.io
Negotiator
Member
Good points.
I think QLC NAND is a given, probably 4 chips for a total of 1TB. No HDD/hybrid storage, pure SSD connected straight to the APU (HDD/Blu-Ray has to go through the southbridge).
The only problem with QLC is that it's not very durable (100-1000 writes max). If it's soldered, that could easily become problematic. I'd prefer a M.2 slot solution, unless custom/soldered means much higher speeds.
Of course what's even more problematic is using a hybrid HDD/SSD solution with a small SSD as a cache... do people seriously not understand what that means for the SSD durability?
HitCtrlAltDel
Member
The way Sony has talked about their SSD being this almighty fastest SSD ever makes me think Optane might be what they are using. But the price makes no sense, it would be way too expensive. I think it depends on the rest of the architecture. Personally I think we’re going to see a 128gb SSD as a fast cache. Maybe even as small as a 64gb SSD. That would be enough space to hold most full games (but only one game). SSD prices are way too high no matter what the technology to have the only storage be SSD. There must be a traditional HDD as well for mass storage. Most people now have an external HDD to hold their content making probably around the 3TB mark the average amount of space a PS4 user has. There is no way we could go back to 1TB of storage with no means of expanding it.
Negotiator
Member
Not really.
You can buy 1TB NVMe SSD (Intel 660p) for only $100 right now. That's a retail price, not wholesale.
SSD prices are dropping fast, so I wouldn't be surprised if it costs $50-60 next year:
Prices of SSDs and RAM will crash in 2019, Gartner predicts
Minor relief is in sight next year, when prices of memory and NAND flash will start to gradually decline. But prices will plummet big time in 2019, said Jon Erensen, research director for semiconductors at Gartner.
www.pcworld.com
An SSD cache is gonna be disastrous. Trust me, you don't want that if you even remotely care about longevity.
ANIMAL1975
Member
And don't forget it has to power Psvr2
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Yeah, durability would be the biggest problem with QLC; these games are hundreds of gigabytes in size. A hardcore gamer constantly installing and uninstalling large games over a period of 5 years will wear down a QLC-based drive within that time easily. Considering that even Samsung gives their QLC drives about a three-year warranty (or something like that), I don't see how an internal QLC storage pool is going to float with these systems unless it's replaceable.
And by that point...why go through the trouble of building your own SSDs? These talks about installing games based on the content you want to play sound like they could be workarounds for whatever storage solution the consoles are using, but they could just get Samsung to drop some QLC drives in their systems on the cheap and have them be removable like previous gens. That might mean all this SSD hype is really about whatever customizations they're using for the memory controller, and maybe giving devs some ways to access data on the drives at a lower level than they could on PC (even so, they're still limited to NAND's restrictions in how data's accessed).
I remember Sony saying the PS5 has an SSD faster than any currently on the market. Well, the fastest SSDs I can think of atm are NVMe x4 PCIe 3.0 drives, those have about 4 GB/s transfer speeds full-duplex. But each PCIe 3.0 lane is about 985 MB/s; 4.0 doubles that and I suppose if Sony's writing their own firmware and customizing the controller they could get actual speeds better than drives currently on the market, with just 2 PCIe 4.0 lanes.
But that wouldn't let them keep that claim for very long, so maybe they're dedicating 4 4.0 lanes from the APU to SSD internal storage drives? It's pretty doable; AMD's stuff usually goes between 8 and 16 lanes for PCIe 3.0, they will probably continue that going forward. So it wouldn't matter if you end up replacing the internal drive with a 3rd-party one if it means that 3rd-party drive is still compatible with the custom driver and controller Sony and MS have cooking.
3rd parties usually don't do that kind of stuff tho, we might can see Sony and MS customizing drives from companies like Samsung or Western Digital in partnerships and those drives being specifically designed with PS5/Scarlett in mind to take full advantage of whatever they're doing on those.
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Negotiator
Member
The mass market (FIFA, Fortnite et al) will stick to PS4 (Super) Slim for a while. What makes you think they're willing to spend $400?
Both Sony and MS have given us hints about "premium" consoles that will target the "enthusiast audience". You ain't paying less than $499 for that experience.
HitCtrlAltDel
Member
True, but that wouldn’t be as fast as they have been talking. But could be what they actually use. I still believe there has to be an HDD in the system for mass storage.Not really.
You can buy 1TB NVMe SSD (Intel 660p) for only $100 right now. That's a retail price, not wholesale.
SSD prices are dropping fast, so I wouldn't be surprised if it costs $50-60 next year:
Prices of SSDs and RAM will crash in 2019, Gartner predicts
Minor relief is in sight next year, when prices of memory and NAND flash will start to gradually decline. But prices will plummet big time in 2019, said Jon Erensen, research director for semiconductors at Gartner.
An SSD cache is gonna be disastrous. Trust me, you don't want that if you even remotely care about longevity.
FrostyJ93
Member
External drives will act as cold storage I think. You will be able to store games on them bit wont run games off of them. To play the game it will have to be loaded onto the ssd. I think the ssd will keep your last 5 or 6 games laoded on it then seamlessly swap with the connected external drive as needed.
Negotiator
Member
An external USB3 HDD will be able to run BC games (PS4 and maybe even PS1/2/3) just fine, no need for an SSD.
Swapping is going to cause unnecessary wear and tear. Let us manage storage manually.
Use the internal SSD for PS5/next-gen games (and maybe some patched, cross-gen ones like Spiderman) and an external HDD for everything else.
HitCtrlAltDel
Member
Exactly what I was getting at with my comments. I’ll hate that I can’t just install a really large drive inside though. Just a cleaner setup than an external drive.
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