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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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J_Gamer.exe

Member
wasnt this just inengine? thats like saying the forza footage will be what the final game will be

Don't worry.

Cinematic + "some gameplay shots without hud". All real-time.

See Bgs post and also as said previously its obvious some is gameplay with the camera moved round like you can do.

The bit underwater, the bit on the mountain with rocks in foreground. Camera behind thats what gamplay will look like.

319092ebfa0b3d65b72377981024ad0e7afc0bdd.gifv


I bet these shots below are just gameplay zoomed out and made to look cinematic.

4580573f32868f2e6cd98395cda39e2a7d332649.gifv


videoplayback13.gif
 
I want Sony to make it as brutal as possible, I want Xbox to vanish. A new competitor would step in, but it's extremely hard to compete against Sony that's backed with Cenima division, cameras and imaging, large tech for visuals and graphics, and it's a company that its main core is entertainment and art.

They've just crushed Canon and Nikon when people were laughing at it their mirrorless cameras at the beginning, and it'll continue to thrive because this company has passion and sticks with its products until they reach the shores of success.

sony-bealpha-campaign-feature-810x405.jpg


Can't wait for the a7s III reveal, one of the major tech reveals I've been anticipating for years!
Come on man, that's harsh. And even Playstation gamers benefit from the current state of Xbox. Competition is almost always good for everybody.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
It looks disgusting. It doesn't look like its entrails were removed or that it was otherwise cleaned - apart from being shaven - before being cooked. Nasty.

No man, he was quoting another post. But no one eats things like that here. It should be gutted and what looks like skin to you that's fat with spices that paint it near brown color that gave you the illusion of that. But the guts get cleaned thoroughly and then cooked separately, and I love them. :lollipop_smirking: But you need to be a serious meat eater to appreciate that. Some just throw them away.

Either way, that's a bad way of cooking and food management.

That's no way to talk about Bo!

He thought you were referring to that whole camel on a plate. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
 
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Gamernyc78

Banned
See Bgs post and also as said previously its obvious some is gameplay with the camera moved round like you can do.

The bit underwater, the bit on the mountain with rocks in foreground. Camera behind thats what gamplay will look like.

319092ebfa0b3d65b72377981024ad0e7afc0bdd.gifv


I bet these shots below are just gameplay zoomed out and made to look cinematic.

4580573f32868f2e6cd98395cda39e2a7d332649.gifv


videoplayback13.gif

There is gameplay in there ppl just pushing narratives don't want to accept or believe it, why not? Horizon part 1 is a gorgeous game. Again it reminds me of when uncharted 2 was shown even professionals didnt think it was gameplay until Naughty Dog did what none of those devs do and tht was give a live gameplay demo. People were awestruck lol tht sand area is gameplay too, you can tell.
 
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HawarMiran

Banned
See Bgs post and also as said previously its obvious some is gameplay with the camera moved round like you can do.

The bit underwater, the bit on the mountain with rocks in foreground. Camera behind thats what gamplay will look like.

319092ebfa0b3d65b72377981024ad0e7afc0bdd.gifv


I bet these shots below are just gameplay zoomed out and made to look cinematic.

4580573f32868f2e6cd98395cda39e2a7d332649.gifv


videoplayback13.gif
I think they might implement the Red Dead thing where you chose a destination and hold a button and you see the traversal in a cinematic mode
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
There a gameplay in there ppl just pushing narratives don't want to accept or believe it, why not? Horizon part 1 is a gorgeous game. Again it reminds me of when uncharted 2 was shown even professionals didnt think it was gameplay until Naughty Dog did what none of those devs do and tht was give a live gameplay demo. People were awestruck lol tht sand area is gameplay too, you can tell.
I love how before the MS conference people were calling everything in the PS5 conference cross gen. Now it's too good to be true lmao.
 

NoviDon

Member
To be honest I'm not sure why we go down the Machine learning path...

We know how it ends and its damn scary....

tenor.gif
The scary thing is an ai takeover would be even more devastating than terminator. With satellite surveillance and cameras everywhere nowadays there is nowhere to hide. And Boston dynamics robots already move 100x better than t-1000. Thank about that with ai upgrades lol
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Well they want from MS and then chose Activision as a partner...

They really needed more dev time but they shot themselves in the foot with that deal.

I think MS of today would have kept them; would have maybe even let them go multi-platform.. and given them the budget/time to create a Destiny 1 that actually had enough content to justify it's price.

But we'll never know.

With all due respect, I don't remember any "better" or even "equal" game from first party xbox compared to EA, Activision, Ubisoft even the "flopped" games. Guessing that they will deliver just shows lack of observation. Bungi going to Activision has made them thrive despite the problems they had.
 

JTCx

Member
I love how before the MS conference people were calling everything in the PS5 conference cross gen. Now it's too good to be true lmao.
This conference was also going to show everybody what true next gen is and how a "cross gen" game like Halo Infinite is going to blow every one of Sony's showcase games out of the water. For months it was "Just you WAIT™ until July event". Now its just you WAIT™ for the RT patch on release. The crow soup is too good LMAO.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
That isn't necessarily a bad thing if almost everyone is doing it, that's the rub.

Say Sony sells 10m copies of a $60 game, that's what 600m (being generous that everything is full price), now let's say Sony suddenly went GamePass and with the quality of their content sold it to 50% of their user base. 50m users at $15/mo is what 750m every month. Does Sony even make 12 10m sellers a year as it is? At the end of the day, this would actually increase the total spend on content. That's not even considering the fact that micro-transactions are a thing regardless of if GP exists or not, and GP just makes that even more lucrative for devs.

Sony makes more money with only PSN than the Xbox division and Nintendo as a whole. Get your facts straight.

It's absolutely insane just how big PSN has become for Sony. So for the calendar year 2018 (using the current conversion rates), Microsoft's gaming division made $11.5 billion, Nintendo made $9.17 billion, & PSN made $12.5 billion.

.
 

Neo Blaster

Member
Maybe this is exactly what they've done but they're waiting until mid-end of August to roll out the rest of the pieces and tell their underdog story about how Halo was needing so much work but with the power of the new console/dev kits and the new tools they created they were able to quickly and efficiently right the ship and make the game look amazing.

Ha wishful thinking... but would be crazy if something like that happened.
You have this one chance to make it right after screwing up in the last event, using the most important IP you have, huge flagship title, and then you purposely screw up again just to make a surprise later?

This has got to be the worst Xbox fan theory I've ever seen...
 
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See Bgs post and also as said previously its obvious some is gameplay with the camera moved round like you can do.

The bit underwater, the bit on the mountain with rocks in foreground. Camera behind thats what gamplay will look like.

319092ebfa0b3d65b72377981024ad0e7afc0bdd.gifv


I bet these shots below are just gameplay zoomed out and made to look cinematic.

4580573f32868f2e6cd98395cda39e2a7d332649.gifv


videoplayback13.gif

It's not hard to believe that Guerilla can pull off these beautiful graphics with how beautiful Horizon 1 looks.

Even the actual Horizon 1 game looks better than the first cinematic trailer of the game. Horizon 1 didn't have a CGI trailer. Why would they do it this time?
 
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Maybe this is exactly what they've done but they're waiting until mid-end of August to roll out the rest of the pieces and tell their underdog story about how Halo was needing so much work but with the power of the new console/dev kits and the new tools they created they were able to quickly and efficiently right the ship and make the game look amazing.

Ha wishful thinking... but would be crazy if something like that happened.

With how they handled the marketing for Halo Infinite everyone was expecting a true next gen looking gameplay demo at the conference. They made comments on how they were building it for the XSX and how the X1 wasn't going to hold the XSX version back.

343 mentioned how they worked extremely hard on the demo and that they polished it alot. They probably believed that it was worthy to show off the XSXs hardware but unfortunately people were expecting alot more. Especially after the HellBlade 2 demo, Project Mara, Unreal Engine 5 and the Slip Space engine demo.
 
wasnt this just inengine? thats like saying the forza footage will be what the final game will be
Not was realtime cinematic (that scene) in the console if we organize the level in how close is to real gameplay is

CGI (State of Decay 3) >> CGI target level (Stalker 2)> In Engine (Anthem) > In engine in a similar system (Hellblade 2)
> In engine on console (NBA 2k21)>realtime cinematic on console (Horizon 2)>=realtime on console (GT7)

For example with case of Halo Infinite is weird because depend how much you trust in 343 because in the best case is almost equal
to realtime in console but probably a little better so could closer to realtime cinematic.
 

yewles1

Member
I was referring to that 12 vs 10 boxes quote.
What did Ali Salehi and Crytek say?
 

Lethal01

Member
no. it was realtime. everything in the ps5 conference was realtime.

Source on this, I don't think the Hitman reveal was realtime. You could capture footage on ps5 that was rendered at 15fps an speed it up.
I don't think this happened but I do love having pointblank untwistable statements if possible.

Pseudo-expert with a bias. Worst combination you can have.

200.gif

He's saying no GPU supports the thing that they are suggesting is happening, seems fair.
 
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roops67

Member
I'm sitting on page 2518 and lost hope of ever catching up with this thread... its on:lollipop_fire:. So again I'm posting blind. It's not worth sharing my thoughts of the tragic xbox show, I can't add anything new to what's been said many times already no doubt. Just wanna highlight tho Microsoft is going to great lengths to hide/convolute what was running on XSX and what was not, something is amiss?!

I'm gonna try expand on some info about PS5's 'SmartShift' implementation and also helps me get a better grasp at the same time. Really wish Cerny/Sony had given their variable frequency technology a specific name cos it is much more than just AMD's SmartShift... I'll just refer to it as 'tech' here to make things easier :messenger_winking:

This article that been linked by 'dodrake' and others in the past does an excellent explanation in which the tech helps increase GPU occupancy, also relates to CPU usage

Wi7YIDJ.gif

The article best describes what's happening above, but to sum up...

The graph itself is shown from point of view of the power drawn from the PSU, its an indirect (non-linear) correlation of the frequency. As rightfully pointed out by 'raul3d' in the past, the article indicates how the PSU efficiency range is important as it is most efficient at about ~80% of its rated output, so the tech will optimise for this range

The pink band in the graph represents the most visually demanding GPU effects, it won't be the yellow peaks which are spikes caused by situations like unbounded tight loops which have no affect on the output

The tech preemptively lowers the frequency for the peaks leaving a clear power headroom above, thus allowing it to efficiently utilize the bandwidth by increasing the total average frequency which will increase the GPU output (in affect occupancy) as shown in the pink

This does not cover how the tech mitigates for 'race to idle' that was mentioned by Cerny. Race to idle 'generally' is where a process will peak finish it's task then sit idle between each workloads. Analogous to a car racing to get to a destination but getting stopped by every red light burnning shit load of fuel in the process. Whereas if it slowed down timed itself to pass all green lights it will still reach the destination in the same time but saving a lot of fuel

A scenario for GPU refreshing at 30fps (33.3ms), but it finishes rendering each frame at 25ms so it will be sitting idle for 8.3ms. It will be beneficial for the tech to slow the rendering down just enough so it finishes completely in the 33.3ms window thus not having any impact on what's being displayed but saving power/bandwidth which can be utilised somewhere else. The explanation is a bit brief but hopefully clear enough for you to get an idea of the advantages
 

jamwest24

Member
I'm sitting on page 2518 and lost hope of ever catching up with this thread... its on:lollipop_fire:. So again I'm posting blind. It's not worth sharing my thoughts of the tragic xbox show, I can't add anything new to what's been said many times already no doubt. Just wanna highlight tho Microsoft is going to great lengths to hide/convolute what was running on XSX and what was not, something is amiss?!

I'm gonna try expand on some info about PS5's 'SmartShift' implementation and also helps me get a better grasp at the same time. Really wish Cerny/Sony had given their variable frequency technology a specific name cos it is much more than just AMD's SmartShift... I'll just refer to it as 'tech' here to make things easier :messenger_winking:

This article that been linked by 'dodrake' and others in the past does an excellent explanation in which the tech helps increase GPU occupancy, also relates to CPU usage

Wi7YIDJ.gif

The article best describes what's happening above, but to sum up...

The graph itself is shown from point of view of the power drawn from the PSU, its an indirect (non-linear) correlation of the frequency. As rightfully pointed out by 'raul3d' in the past, the article indicates how the PSU efficiency range is important as it is most efficient at about ~80% of its rated output, so the tech will optimise for this range

The pink band in the graph represents the most visually demanding GPU effects, it won't be the yellow peaks which are spikes caused by situations like unbounded tight loops which have no affect on the output

The tech preemptively lowers the frequency for the peaks leaving a clear power headroom above, thus allowing it to efficiently utilize the bandwidth by increasing the total average frequency which will increase the GPU output (in affect occupancy) as shown in the pink

This does not cover how the tech mitigates for 'race to idle' that was mentioned by Cerny. Race to idle 'generally' is where a process will peak finish it's task then sit idle between each workloads. Analogous to a car racing to get to a destination but getting stopped by every red light burnning shit load of fuel in the process. Whereas if it slowed down timed itself to pass all green lights it will still reach the destination in the same time but saving a lot of fuel

A scenario for GPU refreshing at 30fps (33.3ms), but it finishes rendering each frame at 25ms so it will be sitting idle for 8.3ms. It will be beneficial for the tech to slow the rendering down just enough so it finishes completely in the 33.3ms window thus not having any impact on what's being displayed but saving power/bandwidth which can be utilised somewhere else. The explanation is a bit brief but hopefully clear enough for you to get an idea of the advantages

Thanks for posting this and the linked article! This is excellent ☺️
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Source on this, I don't think the Hitman reveal was realtime. You could capture footage on ps5 that was rendered at 15fps an speed it up.
I don't think this happened but I do love having pointblank untwistable statements if possible.
eh. i mean if you think they are going to be that disingenious than i cant convince you. I get it, the so-called inengine hellblade 2 and halo infinite trailers have scarred us all but when sony says everything from this point onwards was captured from a PS5 system, i am inclined to believe they arent capturing it at 2 fps and speeding it up to fool us. Nothing at that conference look too good to be true. certainly not horizon. looked excellent but expected from a next gen jump.

timestamped, though i think you have already seen this.


GG also released 4k screenshots of the horizon trailer and they have aliasing. if Horizon was pre-rendered then they wouldve cleared up those jaggies.

horizon-forbidden-west-goldengate-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg


horizon-forbidden-west-ridevista-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg
 

icerock

Member
GG also released 4k screenshots of the horizon trailer and they have aliasing. if Horizon was pre-rendered then they wouldve cleared up those jaggies.

horizon-forbidden-west-goldengate-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg


horizon-forbidden-west-ridevista-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg

Too much aliasing if anything, it's too sharp. Perhaps, the reason for wider cinematic shot? I think they'll produce a better and softer image in retail version. The foliage in the 2nd pic looks really bad!
 
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GT7
"zooms in @300%" "raytracing is half the resolution" "it suffers from aliasing"
Ratchet&Clank
"missing reflections, no self-shadow, casting on explosions, debris"
Halo Inf.
"the light is flat"

no mention of
- vrs issue or low res textures (concession made due Xbone or because they figured out "once tasked, the bandwidth drops")
- low poly-count assets all over the place
- grassgate 3.0 "rising up" 2m
- LOD
- dynamic 4K60
- pop ins
- raytracing via patch*
- according to KingTrash "muzzle flash is not dynamic, seen on the gun"
- but apparently this 6 month old build can be fixed according to 1 or 2 peeps here and on YT, by converting it from SDR to HDR :p

*edited, added
Also, that the art direction, character models and most of all, the animation in Halo Infinite is laughable. That to me is what makes it look 10+ years outdated.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Too much aliasing if anything, it's too sharp. Perhaps, the reason for wider cinematic shot? I think they'll produce a better and softer image in retail version. The foliage in the 2nd pic looks really bad!
DF said there is no aliasing at all in the game. Perhaps thats the compromise they had to make to hit native 4k. There is always going to be compromises made on consoles.

looks much better in motion.

jO2Utm.gif
 

icerock

Member
DF said there is no aliasing at all in the game. Perhaps thats the compromise they had to make to hit native 4k. There is always going to be compromises made on consoles.

looks much better in motion.

jO2Utm.gif

I'm such an idiot, meant to say AA. From the still, it's too aggressive. Look at the blades of the grass in the screenshot. And yeah, it looks stunning in motion but I still expect assets to look little bit softer in retail.
 

Imtjnotu

Member
I want Sony to make it as brutal as possible, I want Xbox to vanish. A new competitor would step in, but it's extremely hard to compete against Sony that's backed with Cenima division, cameras and imaging, large tech for visuals and graphics, and it's a company that its main core is entertainment and art.

They've just crushed Canon and Nikon when people were laughing at it their mirrorless cameras at the beginning, and it'll continue to thrive because this company has passion and sticks with its products until they reach the shores of success.

sony-bealpha-campaign-feature-810x405.jpg


Can't wait for the a7s III reveal, one of the major tech reveals I've been anticipating for years!
I just picked up my A7riv today cause the A4 got pushed back 😑
 

ToadMan

Member
Come on man, that's harsh. And even Playstation gamers benefit from the current state of Xbox. Competition is almost always good for everybody.

Yeah competition is good - the question is whether MS are really the best competition in the consumer electronics space ....

Maybe Samsung or LG would be a more direct competitor for Sony.

Even Apple could be interesting - my concern with this is that I don’t think apple would produce the gaming content I’d want and probably the hardware would be solid but lack raw power.
 

HawarMiran

Banned
I want Sony to make it as brutal as possible, I want Xbox to vanish. A new competitor would step in, but it's extremely hard to compete against Sony that's backed with Cenima division, cameras and imaging, large tech for visuals and graphics, and it's a company that its main core is entertainment and art.

They've just crushed Canon and Nikon when people were laughing at it their mirrorless cameras at the beginning, and it'll continue to thrive because this company has passion and sticks with its products until they reach the shores of success.

sony-bealpha-campaign-feature-810x405.jpg


Can't wait for the a7s III reveal, one of the major tech reveals I've been anticipating for years!
Sony has to step up their TV game man and pair it with a PS5.... I mean at this point it seems to be undisputed that LG has the best TVs for gaming. Until Samsung comes along with their Qned TVs.
 

HawarMiran

Banned
Yeah competition is good - the question is whether MS are really the best competition in the consumer electronics space ....

Maybe Samsung or LG would be a more direct competitor for Sony.

Even Apple could be interesting - my concern with this is that I don’t think apple would produce the gaming content I’d want and probably the hardware would be solid but lack raw power.
better believe that some Chinese company comes out of nowhere and releases a console in a few years
 
eh. i mean if you think they are going to be that disingenious than i cant convince you. I get it, the so-called inengine hellblade 2 and halo infinite trailers have scarred us all but when sony says everything from this point onwards was captured from a PS5 system, i am inclined to believe they arent capturing it at 2 fps and speeding it up to fool us. Nothing at that conference look too good to be true. certainly not horizon. looked excellent but expected from a next gen jump.

timestamped, though i think you have already seen this.


GG also released 4k screenshots of the horizon trailer and they have aliasing. if Horizon was pre-rendered then they wouldve cleared up those jaggies.

horizon-forbidden-west-goldengate-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg


horizon-forbidden-west-ridevista-logo-tm-legalline.original.jpg

Agree, is not like we don't think XSX is not able to deliver stunning graphics but they have a couple of problems for that:

-Xbox one generation is an anchor for any game of Xbox studios until end of 2022 at least Xbox break its promise.

-Gamepass is great for players but most of your games cannot take 5 years to be dev as your need to fill the catalog
so you have to reduce the ambition of your game or make as service. Of course this will not affect all the games but
will have an impact when the engagement care more than anything else just see how Fornite and Destiny just looks
good but not more.

So for now the studios of Xbox which looks are able to deliver that kind of experience or its games adapt to do that are:

-The Coalition which just release a game
-Playground Games probably Fable is a 2022 or later
-Turn 10 another 2022 title possible
-Initiative looks will be is new AAA studio
-Ninja Theory another 2022 or later

In theory should be also Obsidian but I need more than 5 sec of "in game" between CGIs to see if is true.

So looks like XSX generation start in 2022 not this year and also we need to see if lockhart is really going to match the CPU and SSD
of its big brother because if not the anchor will be just little lighter but will be still there.

343 well after of Halo 5 they need a big Halo but now after that demonstration and became a game as service the future doesn't looks good
for Halo.


yQYF4PH.jpg

Alex was just too tired to be nitpicky
giphy.gif
 
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DF said there is no aliasing at all in the game. Perhaps thats the compromise they had to make to hit native 4k. There is always going to be compromises made on consoles.

looks much better in motion.

jO2Utm.gif
The effect of the wind on the grass causing that sort of wave. It's absolutely stunning. Plus the density of the grass is so high too.

It looks even better coming out of that Halo demo. And Horizon too is an open world...
 
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