Lol I was just repeating what you wrote under your tag
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TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
well, there could be the chance that you don't understand what you write. is it so?
Great Hair
Banned
Announcement of Total sales
28.3mill. on April 2020, 9th
Game release
PC, PS4, Xbone 19 may 2015 (1888 days)
Switch 15 October 2019 (179 days)
Based on my estimates
2015.5.19 to 2020.4.9
PC 12.8mill.
PS4 10.19mill.
Xbone 3.99mill.
SW 1.30mill.
jasondefaoite
Member
I understand fine. You are the one interpreting what I wrote in a way based off your own bias.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Time to revisit the launch of the Xbox One.
Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects
"There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people who don't get it. We're actually extremely proud of our design."www.eurogamer.net
One interesting point in the article was about CU count versus Clock. MS evaluated this and had some interesting findings.
- CU count on the XB1 increased from 12 to 14. That's an increase in TFLOP of 16.6%.
- CU count remains as 12, but the GPU clock was increased from 800 to 853MHz, so a TFLOP increase of 6.6%.
So, logically the higher CU count would perform better? Not so, according to MS.
"but in terms of actual measured games - what actually, ultimately counts - is that it was a better engineering decision to raise the clock."
"Increasing the frequency impacts the whole of the GPU whereas adding CUs beefs up shaders and ALU," interjects Nick Baker.
"Right. By fixing the clock, not only do we increase our ALU performance, we also increase our vertex rate, we increase our pixel rate and ironically increase our ESRAM bandwidth," continues Goossen.
"But we also increase the performance in areas surrounding bottlenecks like the drawcalls flowing through the pipeline, the performance of reading GPRs out of the GPR pool, etc. GPUs are giantly complex. There's gazillions of areas in the pipeline that can be your bottleneck in addition to just ALU and fetch performance."
Yeah I posted this weeks ago. Mark Cerny went the smaller chip/higher clocks way with the PS5 design and condensed it down to the aphorism "A rising tide lifts all boats". It makes you wonder why Microsoft abandoned this thinking. One X might be understandable as a mid-gen upgrade but going the TF/Compute route with Series X I guess was because of the 2-tier SKU approach (as well as that all important power crown).
JonnyMP3
Member
Wasn't the APU just smaller because the BOM had to include Kinect as part of the original SKU? Now that they're not restrained by budget, guessing they decided POWER with a bigger GPU was the best way to try and reclaw some of the lost ground.
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
yes, mainly it was the STUPID idea of microsoft that they could be a wii-copycat, and that led to a myriad of STUPID decisions
BlueXImpulse
Banned
Because they chose to invest more in their GPU so they went for a wider GPU. What Cerny and his team achieved wasn't easy, it required AMD Smart Shift technology and more aggressive cooling. Sony decided the budget they could have invested in a bigger GPU would be better suited to pushing storage a generation ahead of everybody else. This calculated 'gamble' seems to have paid off because nobody can quit talking about how amazing it is. Xbox could have decided to do the same, but Mark Cerny is a visionary and decided that 2 more TF wasn't worth not chasing this storage milestone.
We have to wait and see if the gamble was worth it but early signs show that it might have been. To go back to the question, MS decided what they did because it fits their design philosophy. They want more, sustained power. It's all theoretical so we have to see who comes closer to hitting their peak performance. It's just differences in design goals. Sony wanted storage so fast that you can request what you want and get it into RAM ASAP. It isn't even really about filling RAM quickly but instead fetching assets as and when you need them. 5.5GB/s could fill memory in sub-3 seconds. That's great. But what he really wanted was to fetch 1GB of assets in 0.18 seconds.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The amount of CUs was less because the APU had 32MB of ESRAM that took a huge amount of mm^2. The point is after the bad June E3 showing Microsoft's Andrew Goossen (Now architect on XSX APU) and Nick Baker sat down with DF 3 months later and gave a very detailed breakdown of why actual games on Xbox One would be equal/better than PS4 due to increased clocks. A lot of sound logic seemingly abandoned.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Personally I love cyberpunk theme (Ghost in the Shell, Philip K Dick novels etc) it's possibly my second fave genre after post apocalyptic. But I'm not sure it as a genre is even close in popularity to fantasy (which helped Witcher sales).
So I'm curious how Cyberpunk will sell. It will no doubt sell well, but mainstream do seem to reject cyberpunk stuff, so I wonder if there is a ceiling to its sales.
So I'm curious how Cyberpunk will sell. It will no doubt sell well, but mainstream do seem to reject cyberpunk stuff, so I wonder if there is a ceiling to its sales.
TBiddy
Member
Looks lovely, although I suspect there will be some frustrations with the small buttons that could get hit on accident. But then again, they probably tested that already.
JonnyMP3
Member
But didn't they add the ESRAM to use as a 'scratch pad', if IIRC the term they used back then, to try and mitigate the fact that the main RAM pool was slower DDR3 compared to the much faster GDDR5 on the PS4.
Zoro7
Banned
Lol why don’t we just start guessing all the issues we could have with all new tech. Sounds very enjoyable.
sircaw
Banned
Read the Audiobook of Do androids dream of electric sheep a couple of years back, along with dunction wood, slaughterhouse five and Magician was one of my all-time favorites.
Evilms
Banned
jasondefaoite
Member
It's a fair comment. On the DS4 the share/options button aren't on the same level as the D pad / square/triangle. However, the share/options buttons also require more pressure to activate versus the square/triangle ones. So I guess that may be enough to avoid that issue.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think ultimately they went with ESRAM because they wanted 8GB RAM. Unfortunately it didn't work out as expected and Sony got lucky in some ways with GDDR5.
ETA: I think the term 'Scratch pad' was used about the 360's 10MB eDRAM?
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TBiddy
Member
Let's assume that, yeah. Would be a weird oversight to say the least.
JonnyMP3
Member
Yeah, the term probably was first used during the 360, then used again for the 1.
FunkMiller
Member
Good video here from the ever reliable Mystic, updating what Sony exclusives are rumoured, or being worked on:
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JonnyMP3
Member
Tbf the share and options button are far away enough from the face buttons and D-pad to not be an issue. I've never hit either accidentally, as you'd have to stretch your thumb out all the way to hit those buttons, so it'd have to be an intentional press.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I have some questions about PS5's variable clocks and how it may affect the I/O block elements.
At what clock speed(s) do the various I/O blocks run at? All the same clock as each other or independently different? Do they run at the CPU or GPU clock rate?
Anyone have any insight?
At what clock speed(s) do the various I/O blocks run at? All the same clock as each other or independently different? Do they run at the CPU or GPU clock rate?
Anyone have any insight?
FeiRR
Banned
XboxOne 4.3 m out of 28.3 m total sales gives around 16%. I wouldn't call it a good deal.
saintjules
Member
FeiRR
Banned
I hope Sony takes the bait and releases the same day, not the 20th as rumoured.Controller packaging and warranty leaks suggest a potential November 6 release date for Microsoft's slate of next-gen consoles.
Xbox Series X and S Could Launch on November 6, According to Controller Leaks - IGN
Controller packaging and warranty leaks suggest a potential November 6 release date for Microsoft's slate of next-gen consoles.www.ign.com
Cyberpunk is one of the most recognised brands in pen and paper RPGs. That's millions of fans who might also want to play the video game. Analysts predict it'll sell 20 million in the first year (I know, it's very optimistic).
The buttons are flat, praise the lord!
saintjules
Member
No lights on the face buttons. They went Goku Ultra Instinct on them. I think I'll be OK remembering which button is which
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Darius87
Member
L1 R1 looks different also main buttons have color which i haven't noticed before.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
No lights on the face buttons. They went Goku Ultra Instinct on them. I think I'll be OK remembering which button is which
How accurate is Twitter location GPS? One of those images says it is being posted from a Beijing shopping mall?
If products are in the wild like with the PS3 and PS4 slim everything will leak.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
I know I'm a bit blind when it comes to these things, but I just don't see color in the four main buttons. I just see clear coat with grayish colored shapes.
JonnyMP3
Member
No one has any clue atm I reckon. Not until Cerny and Sony to a full tear down of the Custom I/O unit. That's probably most likely where the secret sauce is.
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FeiRR
Banned
They take the photo geotagging info so they're very accurate. But you can fake it if you want to hide things.
Of course it could be a controlled leak while consoles are locked tight. Quite common thing in marketing.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I guess most likely will be Richard Leadbetter's inevitable tech breakdown article. I doubt whatever format Sony's teardown takes, it will just be a disassembly like they did with the PS4 and Pro with basic tech spec commentary (hope I'm wrong though).
FeiRR
Banned
I/O and CPU/GPU buses aren't dependent on each other in classic system design. However, as the I/O system in PS5 connects directly to the GPU, they might be dependent. We need to wait for details.
Darius87
Member
you right seems i was hallucinating
the glassy looks deceived me.
JonnyMP3
Member
Yeah I'm hoping for a more technical analysis of the design balance and the custom tricks to make the PS5, rather than just a spec sheet read off.
How much of revolution vs evolution in the design and just what other tricks they've used to reduce standard memory architecture bottleneck, as well as the custom cooling solution.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Well, Cerny did a massive deep dive into the various engines and things that run the system inside. What remains are hardware reveals. It can be done in a very stylized presentation sort of way, or a dude with a desk and a screwdriver type of format. I'm good either way, though, I prefer stylized every time.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Yeah I've been meaning to read more of Dick's stuff and another cyberpunk pioneer whose name escapes me...I love it.
By-mission
Member
The point of this discussion is, could the PS5 have a larger GPU? yes as far as we know, then we will find out the truth when it is disassembled, looking only at the "Road to PS5" we do not know the size of the "Geometry Engines" "Coeherency Engines" and what else does Mark have threaded ... Could he have one Bigger GPU? We just don't know why we haven't seen it yet ...
On the xbox one they increased the clock because it was a unique thing that they were able to do, and today we know that it was the fault of ESram and DDR3 ...
Empire Strikes Back
Member
Add that to the fact that a dedicated Apple Silicon box to run games would ease on macOS gaming!! They should at least try! My only fear is them pulling one of the Nintendo book and never dropping games prices.
T-Cake
Member
William Gibson and Neuromancer?
hemo memo
Gold Member
No lights on the face buttons. They went Goku Ultra Instinct on them. I think I'll be OK remembering which button is which
Impressive 3d printing job. Bravo.
FeiRR
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Sure but I'm talking the nitty-gritty details like this:
Have they ever done that? Wouldn't it just fly over the audience's head (For the most part? I mean, it would fly over mine)?
I'd tune in because I want to see whatever they have to show and because I think there might be other things revealed speaking as someone with a slight techie background.
yewles1
Member
All that media and marketing priority on X1 and that's all they sold on the platform? Yikes...
THE:MILKMAN
Member
No I don't really expect Sony to do the same as Microsoft at Hot Chips but I do expect Rich Leadbetter to ask those detailed questions and condense it down to something like the PS4 Pro tech deep dive article for us plebs....!
Hopefully.
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