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[Allandor]

Actually minimum 11GB because you have to include the VRAM... removed the OS and you will have easily 9GB.
S has rumored 7.5GB for games excluding the OS reserved.
It is way lower than PC minimum these days and with next-gen console PC minimum was supposed to get a big jump in minimum specs but we have S now.

Most of PCs RAM that a game uses, is used to stream in resources to the GPU that would otherwise read from an HDD (in most cases). In other words, most of it is just used as a fast cache.
That is why xb1 & PS4 could more or less use all their memory for GPU stuff.

 

[LucidFlux]

They should have just made 1 Xbox. Called "Xbox." It should have just been the Series X but digital only and launched at $400.

I agree to an extent but I cannot see them taking that much of a loss on the HW initially, but without software ready for launch I don't see what other choice they would have had.

On the other hand, If their target price point was $400 they would have lost their only two reasons to buy which are power(x) and value(s). Leaving them with a $400 machine that would have landed below PS5 in raw power, worse I/O. So no real value proposition at all. They really were in a pickle either way but I think the lack of games is the biggest hurdle because they knew these big titles were still years out so they had to lean on the power and value card.

 

[IntentionalPun]

OK I took my meds and I"m back.

Sorry Mod of War

SSD go vrooooom..

 

[kyliethicc]

I agree to an extent but I cannot seeing them take that much of a loss on the HW initially, but without software ready for launch I don't see what other choice they would have had.

On the other hand, If they're target price point was $400 they would have lost their only two reasons to buy which are power(x) and value(s). Leaving them with a $400 machine that would have landed below PS5 in raw power, worse I/O. So no real value proposition at all. They really were in a pickle either way but I think the lack of games is the biggest hurdle because they knew these big titles were still years out so they had to lean on the power and value card.

No. They could sell the Series X for $400 if it was digital only. Maybe they'd lose money at first but they'd sell plenty of units.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Top end PCs already are higher than the new consoles. Threadripper rigs with Titans, or the 3080/90 etc. But most PCs will never pass the consoles for at least 5 years. Very few PC gamers play at 4K.

I'd say most PCs will pass them sooner than that. The 1060 released in what 2016, and with that you were beyond the base consoles for anything even mildly optimized for PC (HZD excluded because it is clearly one of the laziest and least optimized ports release, looks more like they are trying to emulate the PS4 or something). By 2023 the 4060 will release and obliterate the consoles (possibly even the 4050) and DirectStorage will be in place to give the gpu a direct path to data (with the extra DDR memory on PC picking up any slack left over). These systems aren't specked high enough to be competitive for 5 years, even in the mainstream. But most don't care about that, the convenience factor will still be there. People are still buying PS4s today for a reason.

 

[ethomaz]

Most of PCs RAM that a game uses, is used to stream in resources to the GPU that would otherwise read from an HDD (in most cases). In other words, most of it is just used as a fast cache.
That is why xb1 & PS4 could more or less use all their memory for GPU stuff.

Just remember that example is the Doom launched early this year.
Minumum specs will increase in next game.

People talk about PC but don’t understand minimum specs specs exists because scale is not a magical slide option that some thinks to be.

Miminum PC specs was suppose to be higher than Series S after next-gen but now I’m not sure anymore because consoles holds PC.

 

[kyliethicc]

I'd say most PCs will pass them sooner than that. The 1060 released in what 2016, and with that you were beyond the base consoles for anything even mildly optimized for PC (HZD excluded because it is clearly one of the laziest and least optimized ports release, looks more like they are trying to emulate the PS4 or something). By 2023 the 4060 will release and obliterate the consoles (possibly even the 4050) and DirectStorage will be in place to give the gpu a direct path to data (with the extra DDR memory on PC picking up any slack left over). These systems aren't specked high enough to be competitive for 5 years, even in the mainstream. But most don't care about that, the convenience factor will still be there. People are still buying PS4s today for a reason.

Most PC gamers won't be buying those GPUs though. Most PC users don't even have Turing cards.

 

[nikolino840]

Actually minimum 11GB because you have to include the VRAM... removed the OS and you will have easily 9GB.
S has rumored 7.5GB for games excluding the OS reserved
It is way lower than PC minimum these days and with next-gen console PC minimum was supposed to get a big jump in minimum specs but we have S now.

You forget the ssd

An interesting statement from Phil Spencer on Xbox Series X using the integrated NVMe SSD as 'virtual RAM'

And also

That also means the PS5 can make more efficient use of its 16GB of RAM, Cerny said. Since developers can fill that RAM as needed, rather than needing a loading buffer to cover the next 30 seconds or so of expected gameplay assets, more of the RAM ends up in "active" use over time. That means there's less need for a "massive intergenerational increase in size" for the PS5's RAM setup, Cerny said.

Well..now think about a rendering target and assets of 1080/1440p

 

[LucidFlux]

No. They could sell the Series X for $400 if it was digital only. Maybe they'd lose money at first but they'd sell plenty of units.

Ah I missed digital only. Yea or even at 450 to undercut PS5 (assuming it's 499) and not take as much of a loss, giving them the angle of "more power" for less. I don't know how that would fit with their BC strategy though if you lose the ability to insert your old xbox discs. That is a rather large selling point for their overall strategy.

 

[DaGwaphics]

These lunatics are redefining dunning-kruger.

If I was going to tweet at a dev, I'd at least be more clever.

Something more like:

Don't be down on yourself. Nintendo releases hit after hit on the Switch. You can do this with 10x the memory bandwidth, 6x the GPU performance and 2.5x the available memory. You are not no-count in comparison to Nintendo's guys. Keep that head high.

 

[ethomaz]

You forget the ssd

An interesting statement from Phil Spencer on Xbox Series X using the integrated NVMe SSD as 'virtual RAM'

And also

That also means the PS5 can make more efficient use of its 16GB of RAM, Cerny said. Since developers can fill that RAM as needed, rather than needing a loading buffer to cover the next 30 seconds or so of expected gameplay assets, more of the RAM ends up in "active" use over time. That means there's less need for a "massive intergenerational increase in size" for the PS5's RAM setup, Cerny said.

Well..now think about a rendering target and assets of 1080/1440p

SSD will become minimum spec in PC too.
Star Citizen already did that.
With next-gen machines you can be sure devs will have game on PC that won’t run on HDD in few years.

 

[XO_o]

 

[XO_o]

 

[DaGwaphics]

Most PC gamers won't be buying those GPUs though. Most PC users don't even have Turing cards.

There are generally major buy points triggered by the console generations, 1060 was "that" card for the current generation. Either AMD or nVidia will make that "next" card in the next few years and you'll see something quickly spike to the top of the steam chart, etc. The G92 was "that" card in the previous gen (in all its many variations, the little green version that was board powered especially).

 

[hemo memo]

Or make an exclusive and optimize for only one console.

 

[LiquidRex]

Wow... Huge respect for this channel...

 

[jose4gg]

At the end of the day, MS has proven they don't believe in a generation, and all their followers have followed the same thing.

It seems now like the XSS is the machine of the next generation and the XSX is just a luxury item...

Everything we have learn in the past of the lower denominator is gone, no more issues, scalability can fix, and will fix everything as soon as you have a CPU that matches the new generation.

The next generation of consoles should be the ones pushing for a lot of people to change their PCs, but no... change only your CPU, you can play at a lower resolution...

We need a new topic, this is a lost battle until Sony first-party games look SO MUCH better than the rest of the multis that we can show real info on what happens when you have a lower machine to support...

 

[kyliethicc]

Or make an exclusive and optimize for only one console.

PS5

 

[hemo memo]

PS5

Yes.

 

[SSfox]

MS the only brand that make more consoles than games

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Actually minimum 11GB because you have to include the VRAM... removed the OS and you will have easily 9GB.
S has rumored 7.5GB for games excluding the OS reserved.
It is way lower than PC minimum these days and with next-gen console PC minimum was supposed to get a big jump in minimum specs but we have S now.

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

 

[Mod of War]

Nothing a dremel wont take care of

Go big or go home!

 

[ethomaz]

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

Maybe that is the reason we didn't see any first-party game running on new Xbox up to now.
Let's talk about MS 10 first party studios when they start to sell you games.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

We don't know how the discussions went, might have been a lot like "We need more RAM" and on the other side of the table "We need $299".

 

[jose4gg]

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

MS is trying to sell a console at a specific price, it's not that games can't be made for the console, so they don't care about how hard it can be or how limiting can be, games can be made, make them...

 

[Deleted member 775630]

We don't know how the discussions went, might have been a lot like "We need more RAM" and on the other side of the table "We need $299".

And at the same time release the XSX for 499? Seems a bit counterintuitive.

 

[GeorgPrime]

Thinking about it.....

.... it feels like the Xbox Series S is completely out of place.

Developing Games for PS 5 and Xbox Series X will have priority due to the higher power and then you can just hope that it runs on Xbox Series S or gets successfully downgraded without problems. I maybe they will have some games that are not going to be available for Xbox Series S or just in a "bad" version.

Sony can just go with a higher price for digital because the digital version has the same power than the normal version of the PS 5. You can pay 299 for Xbox Digital yes but only with like 50 % of the power.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

You seem to be under this illusion that Xbox devs decided anything here.

An even bigger illusion is believing MS is some sort of top HW company.

And at the same time release the XSX for 499? Seems a bit counterintuitive.

It makes perfect sense when Gamepass is your whole strategy.

 

[SSfox]

LOL

 

[SlimySnake]

OK I took my meds and I"m back.

lol

SSD go vrooooom..

take more meds lmao.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

which company should get into Console gaming?
Microsoft is out. Sony need to be in check, otherwise, they will eventually fuck it up.

 

[Faithless83]

LOL

Loved Max Payne and Alan Wake, but I'm close to saying fuck this and wait for a used ps5 version of control by this point.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That 12-bit color depth on those XSS 1080p panels*

*There are no 12bit 4K or 8K panels either.

Isn't the XSX/S only 40Mbit (i.e. 10bit bandwidth) 2.1?

 

[jimbojim]

 

[IntentionalPun]

LOL

This game was a huge financial failure; hence all the fuckery.

 

[LucidFlux]

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM...

Their internal studios may very well have stressed their concerns and the implications it would have, but if you think that the final design decisions were made and okayed by those developers to include split speed memory pools, less memory on the S, lower CPU speed on the S and less storage space on the S then I don't know what to tell you because they would have undoubtably pushed back.

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

FAKE!!!

 

[Zoro7]

OK I took my meds and I"m back.

Sorry Mod of War

SSD go vrooooom..

You seem to keep having these "episodes" where you lose your shit over nothing. Aint a good look for you Phil.

 

[DaGwaphics]

And at the same time release the XSX for 499? Seems a bit counterintuitive.

I don't think so at all. I think they set price points first and build what they can from there. I don't think they are making excessive profit on the XSS at $299, if any at all (could be in the red). There is only so much they can do and peg that price.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

MS is trying to sell a console at a specific price, it's not that games can't be made for the console, so they don't care about how hard it can be or how limiting can be, games can be made, make them...

It's funny, but the company who doesn't care about hardware sales and pushing for software and services are the one who doesn't care for software and services and is only pushing to sell 1000 series of hardware.

they didn't even calculate if the ram is enough to run next gen software.

 

[hemo memo]

LOL

Shame. A great game justifiably surrounded by negative press because of this questionable business practice. What were they thinking?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Go big or go home!

Oooooooooo

 

[Shmunter]

Wow... Huge respect for this channel...

Turning away Phil’s chowder is admirable

 

[INC]

Shame. A great game justifiably surrounded by negative press because of this questionable business practice. What were they thinking?

I know what im thinking, ill sav my money now

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You seem to be under this illusion that Xbox devs decided anything here.

An even bigger illusion is believing MS is some sort of top HW company.




It makes perfect sense when Gamepass is your whole strategy.

MSFT creates great hardware. Have you seen the surface line up? It's a benchmark for all Windows laptops

 

[ToadMan]

This just seems so weird to me. I’ve been in Australia on the run up to Christmas many times, and I’ve never seen the use of the phrase ‘Holiday 20XX’. It’s just such an American bit of phraseology. It’s been a couple of years since I was there at Xmas time though, so can any Aussies in the country at the moment confirm this is a thing? I confess I don’t pay much attention to Christmas stuff in general... but this seems odd to me.

This is just cultural sensitivity... not everyone in Aus is a Christian these days so companies like to use non-religion specific terms for Christmas.

 

[BatSu]

 

[Thirty7ven]

MSFT creates great hardware. Have you seen the surface line up? It's a benchmark for all Windows laptops

Their laptops are about as good as any other laptops of that price. There’s nothing about them. The Dell XPS line remains the benchmark for premium work laptops.

Besides, what exactly is MS doing there? Just slapping standard specs on it.

 

[Shmunter]

This is just cultural sensitivity... not everyone in Aus is a Christian these days so companies like to use non-religion specific terms for Christmas.

Isn’t Christmas part of western culture of which Australia is?

 

[jasondefaoite]

MSFT creates great hardware. Have you seen the surface line up? It's a benchmark for all Windows laptops

Benchmark? Good industrial design let down by poor hardware. Cracking glass on the screens by closing the laptop. Connectivity issues. Multiple FW updates to address problems. You would think, being from the same company that makes Windows, the Surface machines would be 1st class citizens on that platform. They ain't. Usually they are the last to receive the OK to update to the latest release of Windows due to compatibility issues they need to address.

Consumer Reports actually stopped recommending them in 2017/2018. That's how bad they were.

Consumer Reports stops recommending Microsoft Surface PCs over reliability concerns

Surface products were found to have more problems such as freezing and unexpected shutdowns.

www.theverge.com

I actually think these implications are laughable. Microsoft has more than 10 first party studios and top engineers. But no one apparently did the proper calculation if there's enough RAM... Why not? No one seemed to do any proper analysis at the state of Halo when they released that gameplay video.