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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Nickolaidas

Member
Okay, my theory about the patches we've been hearing lately - God of War, ND games, FFVII Remake ...

I don't think these are just patches to make the games compatible with the PS5 - if it was just that, we should be getting thousands of reports about patches all over the PS library.

I think these are boost-mode patches. I mean, isn't it safe to assume that ND games, FFVII Remake and God of War are among the top 100 PS games which will get boosted performance?

...

...


...


Please tell me I'm right and FFVII is getting high quality textures on the PS5.
 

TheContact

Member
who thought this was a good idea? i must know.

kfc_xbox_series_x_controller.jpg
 

Nickolaidas

Member
Question guys, with Ghost of Tsushima getting patched for Boost Mode on PS5, think its a good value at $35? Planning on getting Demon Souls day 1 as well as my first two games.
Can't comment on GoT since I never played it, but Demon's Souls is Muah! (kiss sound)

Personally, I'll be getting Demon's Souls, Spider-Man Miles Morales and DmC 5 SE for day one. And Godfall for Christmas.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Question guys, with Ghost of Tsushima getting patched for Boost Mode on PS5, think its a good value at $35? Planning on getting Demon Souls day 1 as well as my first two games.
Yeah it's a good value for sure.

I think it maybe gets overrated a bit as there reallllly just isn't that much to the game; but it's fun as fuck and I think the co-op they just added really rounds the product out.
 

GreyHand23

Member
Question guys, with Ghost of Tsushima getting patched for Boost Mode on PS5, think its a good value at $35? Planning on getting Demon Souls day 1 as well as my first two games.

Ghost of Tsushima is a great game if you like open world games and awesome combat. It also has a separate co-op mode that’s really fun. Main story is nice, but if you’re not a fan of open world games the side quests can get repetitive. Overall a really great game and an easy recommendation at full price, but at $35 is a steal!
 

GAF machine

Member
This is wrong. PS3 had software emulation once they removed the ps2 chip. I’m sure Sony can do PS3 software emulation now with the PS5 since you can do it on PCs, they just choose not to.

You may want to watch the video I linked in this post. It's very informative.

Ya know, I believe Sony now has a good working PS3 emulator for the PS5 but they won't just add it for all games like we're expecting.

Making sure a game works thru emulation and modifying the emulator to make a game run well takes time.

I believe they will add it to PS Now!

They can add a game to the subscription after they made sure it works well. This will mean we can then download the game to our PS5 and play it without streaming. This then also means they can roll out the new PS Now to more countries...

This would be the smartest way to do this

I doubt (for a number of reasons, most of which you can hear in this video from timestamp to ~3 minutes before it ends) SIE has gone through the trouble of developing a PS3 emulator. However, I do suspect some of PS5's R&D went into developing a new CELL variant to embed within the custom SSD controller as a means to also provide hardware-based compatibility with PS3.

(note: there's precedent for such an approach, as Ken Kutaragi opted to repurpose PS1's CPU by turning it into an I/O processor for PS2's external/internal devices while preserving PS1 compatibility (entries [0046], [0049] of this patent touch on it and the translated blogposts of an engineer involved with that effort go into some specifics))...

In the original SSD patent, there's a section titled 'Patent Citations (4)'. This section cites four patents, one of which is US8504736B2 for a 'File input/output scheduler' (FIOS). Patent US20090300642A1 is a version of US8504736B2 with numbered entries. Here's a handful of entries taken from it:

[0044] Some embodiments of the present invention may take advantage of a Cell processor architecture or similar processor architecture. FIG. 2 illustrates an example of cell processor 200 configured to implement a FIOS according to an embodiment of the present invention.

[0045] An SPE 206 may store in its local store instructions 207 that implement portions of FIOS program 205.

[0047] By way of example, the FIOS program 101/205 may include a media stack to facilitate interfacing with hardware such as storage device 115...

[0096] By way of example, in the cell processor system 200, an I/O request may be serviced by an SPE 206 using a sequence of instructions of the following type:

[0101] The data requested by the SPE 206 may be sent to anyplace addressable by PPE 204.

PS3's file input/output scheduler (FIOS) library for optimized disc access ran on SPUs...

our-libraries-that-run-on-spus-l.jpg

and it stands to reason that the same FIOS library can be modified to facilitate optimized SSD access per entry [0047] of the FIOS patent. Turning back to the original SSD patent for a moment, the inventor of the SSD is listed as Hideyuki Saito. Interestingly, Saito worked on the CELL project and was thanked by IBM (listed under '7. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS') for his contributions which involved verifying CELL's design and implementation for IBM's QS2x family of server blades...

systems-and-technology-group-25-l.jpg

Using an illustration of QS20 for reference...

cell-programming-workshop-1-l.jpg

I imagine if you were to take the Southbridge chip on the right (throw the one on the left away along with all of its associated devices) and substitute it for a flash controller, combine the two CELLs (the computational grunt of one might not be enough) into a single chip and give it a 7nm shrink (it would be classed as 'Multi-core' according to Kutaragi's CELL roadmap), cram the newly minted 7nm 'Multi-core' CELL inside the flash controller along with the PHY, combine the two pools of DRAM into one pool, include two more flash memory chips with the one shown (the standalone flash memory) and surround the flash controller with them, then you'd wind up with a CELL-based SSD controller with a similar layout to the custom SSD controller on PS5's motherboard...

98ld3zdrn5t51.png

If you were to also run another set of lanes from this hypothetical CELL-based SSD controller to the GPU (which would need some RSX-related hardware incorporated into its architecture for games that make use of RSX + SPU graphics processing) of the APU, then you might end up with something like this...

ps3-architecture-ps3-architecture-l.jpg

It may seem like wishful thinking, but it's completely within the realm of possibility as Kutaragi once believed that CELL would be at the center of various electronic devices and individual components...

"Cell will evoke the appearance of graphics LSIs or southbridge chips, something almost like a PC, and that is the kind of business we want to start. For instance, I would like to think of even a TV receiver not as a display device, but as a potential computer. In short, Cell is what lies at the core as more and more devices are being computerized." -- Ken Kutaragi

In my opinion, a CELL-based SSD controller that provides hardware compatibility with PS3's CELL seems much more straight-forward and elegant than a compromised software emulation solution delivered in piece-meal fashion. I assume SIE thinks similarly given what its EVP of hardware engineering said in 2013 when asked about the possibility of PS3 emulation on PS4 prior to its launch...

"Backwards compatibility, particularly in Japan, is something that is strongly brought frequently, so we thought long and hard about this. Realistically, to support backwards compatibility with PS3, the CELL Broadband Engine would have needed to been part of the new console. Currently, it’s not possible to simulate this via software. If CELL were the only requirement, that wouldn’t have been much of an issue. We would also need to support the supporting hardware indefinitely. We can freely manufacture CELL if the decision is made that it is needed. However, that’s not the case with supporting hardware. There are parts which will become difficult to obtain since 7 years is already considered to be long in the IT industry…" -- Masayasu Ito

With a hardware solution SIE wouldn't have to suffer the travails of trying to get PS3 games to run on a game-by-game basis, and every PS3 game on PS Now at the time of PS5's launch could be made available for rental or purchase from the service on day one.

I presume owners of game discs would be able to play them, but only after being subjected to server authentication. The process would likely be locked behind a PS Now paywall (as you said), and possibly go something like:

- After the insertion of a game disc, PS5 requests a PS Now server to authenticate it
- Server authenticates disc and notifies the requesting PS5 of successful authentication
- PS5 unlocks CELL-based SSD controller for PS3 backwards compatibility
- A choice is given to the user to play from disc (could be played so long as there's an online connection and the disc remains in the drive) or download and install (rent) a digital version (could be played offline, but would require weekly check-ins to validate the subscription) if it's available on the service.

I also presume PS3 games purchased from PS Now would be playable offline (no subscription required; might drive some owners of game discs to repurchase digital versions of them in order to avoid jumping through authentication/check-in hoops), and digital versions of PS3 games sitting on ageing PS3 consoles would be playable (no subscription required) after they've been transferred from PS3 to PS5.

If this turns out to be the case, then SIE will probably make money hand over fist off legacy content in all its forms (physical/digital) whether gamers subscribe to PS Now or not.

- I don't believe emulation of PS3 on PS5 will be possible, but I do think SIE has looked to tackle backwards compatibility and high speed SSD access with a CELL-based SSD controller.
- SIE may plan to lock PS3 compatibility on PS5 behind PS Now. If so, those with PS3 game discs will have to subscribe to play them, those who purchase digital versions of PS3 games from PS Now won't have to subscribe to play them and those who transfer digital versions of PS3 games they already own to PS5 won't have to subscribe to play them.
- In this model, PS Now would be an extension of the PS Store for legacy content and SIE would likely get crazy paid off physical and digital versions of games -- with or without a PS Now subscription.
 
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geordiemp

Member
So people are now saying XSX is not capable of Ray Tracing? What the fuck?

Of course both consoles can do ray tracing, last gen consoles could do ray tracing but the performance cost was too much.

Ray tracing kills performance and even at 4k30 you need a nice bit of extra frame time to do it.

Question is why have we only seen it from Sony first party in games people are playing (so far).

How many ray traced advertised games will just use SSR to get that sales bullet point ? Show us !

I read that Gears had a ray tracing update, but it was SSR and shadows. I believe (but not read about it yet so pls update me)
 
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RookX22

Member
Little off topic but anyone else get the update to the x900h tv yet and try it out? I updated and now whenever I play hdr content on my base ps4 in hdr I lose signal. Never happened before the update.
 
Okay, my theory about the patches we've been hearing lately - God of War, ND games, FFVII Remake ...

I don't think these are just patches to make the games compatible with the PS5 - if it was just that, we should be getting thousands of reports about patches all over the PS library.

I think these are boost-mode patches. I mean, isn't it safe to assume that ND games, FFVII Remake and God of War are among the top 100 PS games which will get boosted performance?

...

...


...


Please tell me I'm right and FFVII is getting high quality textures on the PS5.
They are probably unlocking resolution and framerate while adding 3D audio.
 
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