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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Neo Blaster

Member
Yes. And there are moments which even series X outperformed ps5 in this mode. In the 60 FPS mode during the gameplay it stay literally above the ps5 almost the entirely time. Now we are talking of ridiculous difference but still shouldn't be ignored. Call the ps5 version of DMC5 better it's definitely a stretch. Of course we aren't not talking of statics so I take it as a grain of salt.
Considering the average delta in 60fps is smaller than the 120fps one, it could be considered a tie. But once again, we've been hearing about those 2 extra TFs and higher memory bandwidth on chart, 'the most powerful console ever' and how XSX would perform better since March, so even a tie could be considered a win for PS5.
 

I really dislike when Linux talk of any budget product including GPUs and CPUs
because he always focus in things that doesn't make senses for that price.

The guy spent 500 dollars for a machine which can defeat in games a PC multiple
times more expensive and he still found a way to do a drama for things like Dolby Vision.

Many of its comments also comes from his business projections like "in the future this
thing will be more attractive" I mean common man is okay to say it but use it as an
argument based in speculation is a nonsense.

Also that comment of XSX is more powerfull, yes in paper in flops is more powerful but in
the reality yeah just look the war in the comment section of any comparison between
these systems, the guy didn't investigate that.
 
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Exactly, its Sony's engine, and Sony own Death Stranding. Why buy Kojima Prods and get what?
Uh, one of the most important authors in the history of videogames and his collegues?
Having Kojima Production is far more important than having Decima.
And I doubt Sony could make something out of Death Stranding otherwise.
But yeah, as far as I know there are no bases for these rumors and are only created to strike Sony situation. Sure, I wouldn't have guessed the Bethesda\Zenimax case, but it's likely that this one now is used to create a narrative where MS just gonna buy anything valuable around, which is kind of naive. The same is happening with SEGA.
 
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sircaw

Banned
I really dislike when Linux talk of any budget product including GPUs and CPUs
because he always focus in things that doesn't make senses for that price.

The guy spent 500 dollars for a machine which can defeat in games PC multiple
times more expensive and he still found a way to do a drama for things like Dolby Vision.

Many of its comments also comes from his business projections like "in the future this
thing will be more attractive" I mean common man is okay to say it but use it as an
argument based in speculation is a nonsense.

Also that comment of XSX is more powerfull, yes in paper in flop is more powerful but in
the reality yeah just look the war in the comment section of any comparison between
these systems, the guy didn't investigate that.

Yep this is the problem you are getting with most of these tech users and people, they either don't understand what is going on with the machine or they really don't have a good understanding of the tech.

I remember watching dreamcast guy about a few weeks ago, in one of his videos he was saying yes the xbox will have better-looking graphics because its more powerful, i mean its silly stupid remarks like this that get passed around to thousands of gamers, i can however excuse dreamcast guy as he is just an ordinary games reviewer but just like with the ssd apology video Linus did, he just never seems to learn from his mistakes.

I had the same shit with fightingCowboy the guy who does streaming, one night they were talking about which games he was going to play and he said he was going to play assassins greed on the xbox, i said he should probably prefer to get it on the ps5, he was like don't be silly its plays best on sbox, i was like no it plays best and performs better the ps5, he was like stop fucking trolling, i was, i am not, you need to understand there is more to these consoles that just tflops, he was like your trolling and put my on a time out. When i came back i said what a bullshit thing to do, you need to educate on how the consoles are different and stop just looking at numbers again, i showed him a review and he said i don't care about reviews, xbox is the most powerful its got 12 tflops. i was like fair enough, your an idiot and left his channel.

He also like so many people on this forum, they only see the tflop number. its sad, you expect more from them.

This is why xbox uses it, it fools so many people, even tech people sigh
 
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Yep this is the problem you are getting with most of these tech users and people, they either don't understand what is going on with the machine or they really don't have a good understanding of the tech.

I remember watching dreamcast guy about a few weeks ago, in one of his videos he was saying yes the xbox will have better-looking graphics because its more powerful, i mean its silly stupid remarks like this that get passed around to thousands of gamers, i can however excuse dreamcast guy as he is just an ordinary games reviewer but just like with the ssd apology video Linus did, he just never seems to learn from his mistakes.

I had the same shit with fightingCowboy the guy who does streaming, one night they were talking about which games he was going to play and he said he was going to play assassins greed on the xbox, i said he should probably prefer to get it on the ps5, he was like don't be silly its plays best on sbox, i was like no it plays best and performs better the ps5, he was like stop fucking trolling, i was, i am not, you need to understand there is more to these consoles that just tflops, he was like your trolling and put my on a time out. When i came back i said what a bullshit thing to do, you need to educate on how the consoles are different and stop just looking at numbers again, i showed him a review and he said i don't care about reviews, xbox is the most powerful its got 12 tflops. i was like fair enough, your an idiot and left his channel.

He also likes so many people on this forum only see the tflop number. its sad, you expect more from him.

This is why xbox uses it, it fools so many people, even tech people sigh
I agree with that but also Linus is really useless in moment of analize a budget product for example:

This video for example show how Linus has unrealistic expectations for that CPU, he start to recommend buy a 3200G
but man for some people $50 is all its budget for a CPU not more, in other similar videos he love to say "buy a used product"
and the people is not thank you I want warranty:


Btw the thing Linus talk of buy a more expensive CPU while is using single channel make my internal PC gamer scream of pain.

If you want to build a budget PC or check a cheap product you don't check his channel if you want to see some fancy
product then yes his channel work for that and also for some very stupid thumbnail.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member

He made some good points about the use of ray tracing.

I do feel elements of ray-tracing are very overrated, the only reasons the PCMR have been drooling over it the past 5 years is because Jensen Huang told them to drool over it, even though when turned on you can hardly notice the difference across many games. I do remember some developers weren't fussed over it because they believed they had software solutions which came extremely close to RT in terms of visual result with less cost to the GPU.

Personally, I only like RT because it makes life a little easier for developers since the light can bounce automatically and dynamically without too much work. I also think dynamic global illumination is amazing, wether that's achieved through hardware based ray-tracing or a software based solution like Unreal Engine 5's "Lumen", I think it will benefit open world games heavily since developers wont have to bake in lighting for different times of the day and which also doesn't look very good.

I also feel the performance cost for RT on consoles and even the high-end GPU's is way too much, but of course it's good to understand that we're still in somewhat early stages of ray-tracing technology, hopefully breakthroughs in the next 5-10 years make this technology significantly more efficient.

Just my two cents.
 
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Great Hair

Banned
That almost sounds illegal, i am not sure if that is the right word for it but 55% is gargantuan.

🕵️‍♂️ hmmm ....

2005+
2010+
🐧 Look a penguin, don't hate me!:lollipop_raising_hand:
 

kyliethicc

Member
Uh, one of the most important authors in the history of videogames and his collegues?
Having Kojima Production is far more important than having Decima.
And I doubt Sony could make something out of Death Stranding otherwise.
But yeah, as far as I know there are no bases for these rumors and are only created to strike Sony situation. Sure, I wouldn't have guessed the Bethesda\Zenimax case, but it's likely that this one now is used to create a narrative where MS just gonna buy anything valuable around, which is kind of naive. The same is happening with SEGA.
Konami still own Kojima Productions as well.. the first one lol.

Issue with buying "Kojima Productions" is there's more than 1 and buying the name doesn't mean the man himself won't leave and go found another KojiPro somewhere else. And he owns no IPs or tech. Konami and Sony own all Kojima's IPs and engines.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
.... PS. And the only reason 360 was cheaper than PS3 was because of The Cell.

As it stands, with history as evidence, it does look like that Sony makes more powerful machines for less money than Microsoft.

The suspicion that the heart of Series X was meant to work in servers, also seem to reflect the mistake Sony already made for the PS3. The Cell was meant to be used for everything, and ended up not being that good for running games.
I understand that Leadbetter at DF did an amazing job in slighting the PS3 through that generation, and hence your view of the PS3's Cell processor
- analysis that certainly wouldn't hold up under any technical scrutiny, now, because the 360 was effectively designed around a defacto standard PC 1024x768 resolution, hence the eDRAM size, and shipped without hdmi output in the first revision because of that.

Throughout the generation the 360 had trouble even properly double buffering with AA, and depth cue-ing fog at a full 720p resolution in most games, including gears 3, and used reduced frustum sizes (with reduced zbuffer precision all the time) even in infamous comparison Bayonetta because of eDRAM size. Although every time the eDRAM gave an advantage in foliage (RDR as an example) that became the focal point of all analysis conclusions and the PS3 version wasn't credited for all the other things it did better.

But the most telling thing about the Cell is that they weren't able to perfectly port AA games like Journey to the PS4 with all fx intact because it was very good for gaming algorithms - even if completely unfriendly to developers. Sony were a year late to market and unlucky with the Cell fabrication issues at the beginning, so the PS3 with unified memory and 2 Cells - 1 for CPU and 1 for Graphics - was compromised to 1 Cell with a split memory and an expensive RSX GPU that was very good pushing more polygons and accurate h/w gamma correction, but weaker in raw pixel rate than the Xenos, so the affordable Cell solution Sony envisaged wasn't what we got.

From the beginning Leadbetter set a narrative about blur from the free AA the RSX provided, and placed input lag of the free triple buffering the PS3 VRAM could provide as worse than the screen tearing double buffering solution of the early 360 games, so Sony/publishers dropped both those free advantages.

Thankfully, the anti-ps3 narrative really helped push the advanced tooling on PS3 beyond what developers might have expected Sony ICE team to provide them, and the results of Sony's first party games from that generation really do show the Cell capability in a good light IMHO, even the way they were doing real-time zlib decompression on SPUs and adding 3D to PS3 games in the back half of the gen with such a small performance overhead IIRC. Killzone 3 in 3D and move controls wouldn't have been possible looking like that if the Cell wasn't adept at gaming algorithms IMO.

The PS4 IMO didn't really take a lot of the PS3 Cell DNA into its design, other than the asynchronous compute and heterogeneous chip design, largely because of cost restrictions having lost market share
to the 360 and Sony's own tough finances of the time. But looking at all the advanced customizations to the PS5, the IO complex, decompression engine, coherency engines, cache scrubbers, the geometry engine, Tempest Engine and patents by the likes of Cerny. IMHO it feels like all of those advances have been informed by the work done with the Cell SPUs in the PS3 era. It is possible that Sony's largest financial failure with the PS3 using the Cell BE, will have directly lead to a massive success 2 generations later.
 

DJ12

Member
Phil Spencer himself has said this is true. Its not suspicion, its fact. It was designed as a server chip and for a console, dual purpose.
A server chip for xCloud servers......

Not a server chip for general use servers but something specifically to play xbox games. I don't about you, but I don't think there's anything more suitable than a Series X APU in a xCloud server.

Talk about clutching at straws.

It was designed to play games that work on series X, and guess what it does in xcloud server farms.

Please see through the deceit and distraction techniques your lords and masters are currently feeding you.
 

kyliethicc

Member
A server chip for xCloud servers......

Not a server chip for general use servers but something specifically to play xbox games. I don't about you, but I don't think there's anything more suitable than a Series X APU in a xCloud server.

Talk about clutching at straws.

It was designed to play games that work on series X, and guess what it does in xcloud server farms.

Please see through the deceit and distraction techniques your lords and masters are currently feeding you.
A server is still just a server.

Why does the Series X have 56 CUs? Why a 320 bit bus?
 

DJ12

Member
A server is still just a server.

Why does the Series X have 56 CUs? Why a 320 bit bus?
I'm guessing you believe it's because it was designed as a 'server' product.

When I reality it was so ms could win at spec bingo.

Saying the series apu was designed for servers is disingenuous at best
 

kyliethicc

Member
I'm guessing you believe it's because it was designed as a 'server' product.

When I reality it was so ms could win at spec bingo.

Saying the series apu was designed for servers is disingenuous at best

Here's Phil himself from 2018.

"Interestingly, he then talked about the silicon designed for the next-generation Xbox consoles."

“The thing that’s interesting for us as we roll forward, is we’re actually designing our next-gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud, and also works very well for machine learning and other non-entertainment workloads. As a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we’re putting in.

We have a consumer use for that silicon, and we have enterprise use for those blades as well. It all in our space around driving down the cost to serve. Your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware, and how much time does that hardware monetize.

So if we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the 24 hours through game streaming and other things that need CPU and GPU in the cloud, we will drive down the cost to serve in our services. So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team, and I think that creates a real competitive advantage.”



The Xbox Series X chip can run 4 Xbox One games at once.. and how many CUs does the Xbox One have?
 
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Here's Phil himself from 2018.

"Interestingly, he then talked about the silicon designed for the next-generation Xbox consoles."

“The thing that’s interesting for us as we roll forward, is we’re actually designing our next-gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud, and also works very well for machine learning and other non-entertainment workloads. As a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we’re putting in.

We have a consumer use for that silicon, and we have enterprise use for those blades as well. It all in our space around driving down the cost to serve. Your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware, and how much time does that hardware monetize.

So if we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the 24 hours through game streaming and other things that need CPU and GPU in the cloud, we will drive down the cost to serve in our services. So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team, and I think that creates a real competitive advantage.”



The Xbox Series X chip can run 4 Xbox One games at once.. and how many CUs does the Xbox One have?
I don´t remember how many CU but I think was the same as the Xbox one S.
 

Rea

Member
The Xbox One has 14 CUs. And thats why the Series X has 56. To run 4 games at once. 14x4=56.
But there is one thing though, series X has Rdna2 CUs but Xbox1 has GCN cus, so series X has bigger CUs than Xbox1. If xbox1 games were to run on 14 RDNA2 Cus of series X, does the performance of those games will increase or not? If not, they are leaving most of the performance of Rdna2 Cus on the table.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
Fucking hell lol.

So the PS5 8 core custom Zen2 @ 3.5 GHz (variable) vs the previous fastest CPU in all of PC gaming with more cores clocked at 5 GHz...

DF do "good work."
Shouldn't matter in these tests as the game shouldn't be CPU bound at this resolution. That's likely what he has along with his i5 box.
 

kyliethicc

Member
But there is one thing though, series X has Rdna2 CUs but Xbox1 has GCN cus, so series X has bigger CUs than Xbox1. If xbox1 games were to run on 14 RDNA2 Cus of series X, does the performance of those games will increase or not? If not, they are leaving most of the performance of Rdna2 Cus on the table.
what? for BC on XSX or for Xcloud?

Cause the xcloud chips are mostly for running One S games at like 720p and streaming them to phones.
 

Rea

Member
what? for BC on XSX or for Xcloud?

Cause the xcloud chips are mostly for running One S games at like 720p and streaming them to phones.
I mean for clouds gaming, they are using 14 Rdna2 Cus of series X apu to run Xbox1 game right! But Rdna2 Cus are equivalent to ( about 22 Cus of xbox1 gpu), why shouldn't those games running on Series X server enjoy increased in performance?? That's what i was thinking.
 

kyliethicc

Member
I mean for clouds gaming, they are using 14 Rdna2 Cus of series X apu to run Xbox1 game right! But Rdna2 Cus are equivalent to ( about 22 Cus of xbox1 gpu), why shouldn't those games running on Series X server enjoy increased in performance?? That's what i was thinking.
I'm sure somehow they could run like One X enhanced versions (maybe?) but would anyone care/notice on a phone? Most phones are like 6" 2K screens.

If a game is coded to use 12 CUs for 1080p on One S, and then uses 40 CUs for 4K on One X, could they run that 4K version using just 12-14 CUs on the XSX SoC? Idk
 
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sircaw

Banned
Fully watched that linus video and oh boy it feels more like shade


firstly i don't like the premise of him saying that the other guy is going to spend a whole month with the game, then basically hardly takes anything from him, it almost feels like he is using that guy as a proxy shield of sorts in case he gets backlash from the video, then he can say it's not me it's him.

the amount of shade he throws around in that video while at the same time promoting xbox in some areas is somewhat bizzare.

So wish-washy in some of his recommendations.

the fact that the ps5 and you can pick it up for 350 bucks the diskless one is like the most incredible value out there, you should be like straight away, this is a no brainer.

You can not match that performance buying pc parts, i mean what will a normal pc ghost to play something like demon souls with that performance, a thousand bucks at least.
 
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DJ12

Member
Here's Phil himself from 2018.

"Interestingly, he then talked about the silicon designed for the next-generation Xbox consoles."

“The thing that’s interesting for us as we roll forward, is we’re actually designing our next-gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud, and also works very well for machine learning and other non-entertainment workloads. As a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we’re putting in.

We have a consumer use for that silicon, and we have enterprise use for those blades as well. It all in our space around driving down the cost to serve. Your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware, and how much time does that hardware monetize.

So if we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the 24 hours through game streaming and other things that need CPU and GPU in the cloud, we will drive down the cost to serve in our services. So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team, and I think that creates a real competitive advantage.”



The Xbox Series X chip can run 4 Xbox One games at once.. and how many CUs does the Xbox One have?
I guess you think the ps3 was designed as a server part then as there were farms of them for psnow.

If Ms had designed a chip with amd exactly the same as the ps5, it would also go in their servers for xcloud.

You just cannot tell marketing fluff from comments that actually mean something.

Seems to be a common thing with some xbox fans.
 

kyliethicc

Member
If the game is not CPU bound, there is no reason to believe this will influence the results in any meaningful way.
Sure, but its not how scientific testing is done, leaving other variables undermines conclusions drawn from tested differences. The goal is to keep all other factors identical when testing to isolate one aspect.

There's no reason to use a CPU thats so clearly different from whats in the PS5, if the goal is to compare PC GPUs to the PS5. Just use an 8 core Zen 2 clocked similarly, like a Ryzen 3700X.

Its just laziness on the tester to do otherwise. I bet DF just have a stock benchmarking rig set up to test cards that uses a 10900K and he was too lazy to change it to a Ryzen CPU for just that test.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
Its just laziness on the tester to do otherwise. I bet DF just have a stock benchmarking rig set up to test cards that uses a 10900K and he was too lazy to change it to a Ryzen CPU for just that test.
DF is not centralized so there is no rig all testers can use and a lot of the hardware is likely private hardware.
 

kyliethicc

Member
DF is not centralized so there is no rig all testers can use and a lot of the hardware is likely private hardware.
What? DF say it themselves: their test rig for GPU benchmarking is a 10900K. They work out of an office and are part of Eurogamer, and do lots of GPU benchmarking.

Source

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