• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

SonGoku

Banned
Aug 16, 2018
4,715
6,373
595
This. Bluetooth audio quality just doesn't compare to what you get with wired headphones, and I don't think it ever will. There's a reason all high-end audiophile headphones have cables. The best situation would be if you're able to use nice wired headphones and the mic on the controller at the same time. That way you're not compromising quality in any way.
lol dude really? You do realize "wired" headphones you plug to the controller aren't really wired anymore, audio data its transmitted over the controllers Bluetooth
Decent wireless headsets show a improvement over the DS4 connection which seems limited

or am i falling for a stealth troll lol
 

travisktl

Member
Mar 4, 2020
52
159
200
lol dude really? You do realize "wired" headphones you plug to the controller aren't really wired anymore, audio data its transmitted over the controllers Bluetooth
Decent wireless headsets show a improvement over the DS4 connection which seems limited

or am i falling for a stealth troll lol
No. I clarified this earlier. It was a total facepalm moment for me, and I wasn't even taking that into consideration. My brain was just one-track minded, and I was just explaining that bluetooth will most likely always be inferior to wired without even thinking about that. Big derp moment for me!

I later explained if you wanted the absolute best quality audio, then you'd have to do something like an optical headphone amp, then go to wired headphones from there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rusco Da Vino

SonGoku

Banned
Aug 16, 2018
4,715
6,373
595
No. I clarified this earlier. It was a total facepalm moment for me, and I wasn't even taking that into consideration. My brain was just one-track minded, and I was just explaining that bluetooth will most likely always be inferior to wired without even thinking about that. Big derp moment for me!

I later explained if you wanted the absolute best quality audio, then you'd have to do something like an optical headphone amp, then go to wired headphones from there.
Specifically with Sony LDAC and Hi-Res Audio (upscaling), in optimal interference conditions I doubt many audiophiles could tell the difference – in a negative way - if their wired phones plugged into a Sony Hi-res LDAC capable bluetooth headset (eg Sony SB-HS2) or directly cabled to the LDAC bluetooth audio source.

If Sony are using LDAC for the transport between pad and console, and they have a hi-res upscaling chip in the pad then you won’t be disappointed in the audio quality through high-end phones.
Using the optical port? sounds interesting
btw any idea why wireless headphones use bluetooth instead of a more advanced protocol like wifi or even something proprietary designed for audio would be nice
 
Last edited:

travisktl

Member
Mar 4, 2020
52
159
200
Using the optical port? sounds interesting
btw any idea why wireless headphones use bluetooth instead of a more advanced protocol like wifi or even something proprietary designed for audio would be nice
The proprietary hi-fi bluetooth that PaintTinJr posted about is very interesting. It's a Sony only thing, and could offer pretty much the same quality as wired headphones.

As for the bluetooth vs wifi thing, wifi uses more energy compared to bluetooth, so I think the main reason people don't do this is because it would drain the batteries much quicker.
 
Last edited:

Gamernyc78

Member
Jun 11, 2018
4,473
9,755
570
First flag I looked for and was like wtf is Going on. Activision don't like us
We are big everywhere from actors, politicians, sports, movies, etc I'm sure gaming is no different but I guess since so many live in the states and PR is only like 4 million thy feel it isn't a demographic they need to cater to..
 

kensama

Member
Mar 25, 2007
317
174
1,305
france
Because right now it's not given and there's no indication on will there be VRS support or not. And that's something at least I'm concerned of.

Why concerned of?
If you were a developer you should already know. As a player interest for this is near to zero.
Plus i can not do more than advise you to read there:

VRS = VULKAN = PS5



PS: I only saw this interest for VRS in Xbox's Fanboy mouth, that think it's exclusive to MS and trying to tell that PS5 not in RDNA2.
 
Last edited:

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
284
727
275
Using the optical port? sounds interesting
btw any idea why wireless headphones use bluetooth instead of a more advanced protocol like wifi or even something proprietary designed for audio would be nice
Tx Power efficiency and typical usage, and simple power efficient circuits that intel accelerated in CPUs (IIRC from Intel Centrino launch).

Bluetooth operates in the unlicensed frequencies(same as 802.11A iirc) with lower data-rate, but with higher range – assuming same Tx power for b,g,n, ac - so that allows for even less tx power if wanting to reduce the range to about 5-10m. People 20m or a wall or ceiling away can then reuse the range for their bluetooth without fear of excessive interference. Giving lots of reuse in small areas – hence the PAN personal area network term that came into usage with bluetooth. As they’ve increased the versions of Bluetooth, smaller lithographies have allowed better encoding at same power, hence increased data rates within the same frequencies (AFAIK).

LDAC was proprietary to begin with, but Sony sensibly donated the source code for the codec to Android 7 to increase usage on all handsets to sell more high-end headphones to all smartphone buyers – not sure about iPhone.

To be fair, Hi-res audio upscaling is so effective with 128bit mp3 that just a chip to supplement low latency game codec (aptx?) would still be good for the DualSense using quality wired phones.
 

kensama

Member
Mar 25, 2007
317
174
1,305
france
I tend to belive that this feature will almost guarantee 60fps in console games at least for the vast majority of generation.

I'm not an expert but i don't think that VRS will guarantee 60FPS in game.
But as i said and linked to you:

VRS is from nvidia and is available on Vulkan (PS5) and DX12 (XSX)
 
Last edited:

Leskov

Neo Member
Mar 20, 2020
13
19
90
I'm not an expert but i don't think that VRS will guarantee 60FPS in game.
But as i said and linked to you:

VRS is from nvidia and is available on Vulkan (PS5) and DX12 (XSX)
Basically it's checkboard rendering but with ability to render different parts of image with different quality and fidelity. Checkboard is used on ps4 literally from day one (killzone sf multiplayer), so yeah, right now I just want to know how did Sony improved this technique for ps5 and will it be using VRS or they have their own solution. I think that this is the way to display amazing visuals keeping high framerate/low frametime at the same time. To simplify it this is just the way to do more with less. Which is basically the design philosophy of ps5 architecture.
 

kensama

Member
Mar 25, 2007
317
174
1,305
france
Basically it's checkboard rendering but with ability to render different parts of image with different quality and fidelity. Checkboard is used on ps4 literally from day one (killzone sf multiplayer), so yeah, right now I just want to know how did Sony improved this technique for ps5 and will it be using VRS or they have their own solution. I think that this is the way to display amazing visuals keeping high framerate/low frametime at the same time. To simplify it this is just the way to do more with less. Which is basically the design philosophy of ps5 architecture.

As i said and as Imtjnotu said to you it will be for both platform as it's not a MS property
 

tryDEATH

Member
Nov 3, 2017
171
277
315
wow, so many Xbox fans on that list since yesterday. They really didn't appreciate the revolutionary new DualSensePlayStation®5 controller showing up out of the blue like that and raining on their parade.

I really don't understand why though. Inside Xbox was... good... wasn't it?


:messenger_winking:
Lets not get this twisted this is still SonyGAF, there are two different scales for ban-able content and the purging of one side has been going on for a long time. Just look at your post right here and the last few "opinion" threads that have been started just today that has enough proof of it

.
VRS isn't a gimmick it's going to be an essential part for next generation. MS rightfully positioned it like that and the fact that PS hasn't mentioned it what so ever not even their own proprietary technology that could replicate VRS is very strange. If they somehow don't use VRS the gap is going to end up being huge. We know the PS5 has less power and less RT capability, with no VRS potentially this will be an absolute slaughtering from MS.
 

Okami Haundo

Member
Mar 17, 2016
5,194
260
515
U.S.
So... Weird thought about the DualSense controller...

Why did Sony still include a "lightbar" of sorts around the touchpad? It doesn't seem like it'd be compatible with gen 1 PSVR, so what's it for?

My thoughts? PSVR2 will have a headset-mounted camera, which is the best possible scenario. Give me VR with less cables and apparatus please!

The bummer here is that PSVR Gen 1 will need lots of extra kit for backwards compatibility. Headset, camera, and at least a DualShock 4.
 

Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
614
826
325
It's gonna be there. Don't know why we need an official word on a buzz word
Because it's a pretty big feature, not just a buzzword, and I find the idea of technology licenses interesting.

Have AMD licensed MS's patented implementation for RDNA2, for example. If so, has that license transferred across to a rivals console.

It's okay to make assumptions so long as you accept they're just that.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,563
5,612
725
Lets not get this twisted this is still SonyGAF, there are two different scales for ban-able content and the purging of one side has been going on for a long time. Just look at your post right here and the last few "opinion" threads that have been started just today that has enough proof of it

.
VRS isn't a gimmick it's going to be an essential part for next generation. MS rightfully positioned it like that and the fact that PS hasn't mentioned it what so ever not even their own proprietary technology that could replicate VRS is very strange. If they somehow don't use VRS the gap is going to end up being huge. We know the PS5 has less power and less RT capability, with no VRS potentially this will be an absolute slaughtering from MS.
You're not talking to me about the VRS, are you?

Regardless, I think PS5 does have VRS as it's hugely useful in VR foveated rendering and it seems to be a standard part of the RDNA2 feature-set. I'm sure we'll find out either way whether PS5 has it or not sooner or later.
 

KingT731

Member
Jan 9, 2018
160
166
340
Basically it's checkboard rendering but with ability to render different parts of image with different quality and fidelity. Checkboard is used on ps4 literally from day one (killzone sf multiplayer), so yeah, right now I just want to know how did Sony improved this technique for ps5 and will it be using VRS or they have their own solution. I think that this is the way to display amazing visuals keeping high framerate/low frametime at the same time. To simplify it this is just the way to do more with less. Which is basically the design philosophy of ps5 architecture.
Sony has a patent for something similar (by the wording and examples listed) a few years back back: https://patents.google.com/patent/US10438312B2
 

tryDEATH

Member
Nov 3, 2017
171
277
315
You're not talking to me about the VRS, are you?

Regardless, I think PS5 does have VRS as it's hugely useful in VR foveated rendering and it seems to be a standard part of the RDNA2 feature-set. I'm sure we'll find out either way whether PS5 has it or not sooner or later.
No, the VRS comment was not addressed to you, it was about the bans.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: CJY
Mar 17, 2020
198
754
325
Anyone already thought about how the controller design could not only be a teaser for the console design but also for the new VR Headset and possibly new VR controllers? ( thinking about glove like controller with build-in haptic feedback) 🤩
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
7,867
2,643
630
UK
You're not talking to me about the VRS, are you?

Regardless, I think PS5 does have VRS as it's hugely useful in VR foveated rendering and it seems to be a standard part of the RDNA2 feature-set. I'm sure we'll find out either way whether PS5 has it or not sooner or later.
Funnily enough, an activision guy posting about Geometry engine in ps5 "where VRS comes into play"

So according to the art lead of activsion, Ps5 does have VRS

 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,563
5,612
725
Funnily enough, an activision guy posting about Geometry engine in ps5 "where VRS comes into play"

So according to the art lead of activsion, Ps5 does have VRS

I'll take that as semi-confirmation! :)

I was always confident Sony have it, it's too good not to have, esp for VR. Sony seem to be playing the game of leaving a lot of info in reserve. only revealing what they choose to.

I think they'll talk about VRS extensively when they reveal PSVR2.
 
  • Like
Reactions: geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
7,867
2,643
630
UK
I'll take that as semi-confirmation! :)

I was always confident Sony have it, it's too good not to have, esp for VR. Sony seem to be playing the game of leaving a lot of info in reserve. only revealing what they choose to.

I think they'll talk about VRS extensively when they reveal PSVR2.
I do as well, Sony were heavy into CB rendering and temporal stuff last gen, no way Cerny leaves it on the table unless he has a better idea.
 
  • Fire
  • Like
Reactions: husomc and CJY

Disco_

Member
Jul 26, 2017
344
713
305
No light bar - I wonder how controlled positioning will be done with PSVR2?
The light bar is under the touch pad. Look at the rear shot of the controller. Slit underneath and on sides of touch pad=light bar. That also suggests the tracking is much more accurate since it's so much smaller.
Funny enough, PS5 was described by Wired as a silver tower lol a very early version of course, so means nothing for the final design.
It was described as a silver tower because it was a PC tower/case with PC components in it.

So... Weird thought about the DualSense controller...

Why did Sony still include a "lightbar" of sorts around the touchpad? It doesn't seem like it'd be compatible with gen 1 PSVR, so what's it for?

My thoughts? PSVR2 will have a headset-mounted camera, which is the best possible scenario. Give me VR with less cables and apparatus please!

The bummer here is that PSVR Gen 1 will need lots of extra kit for backwards compatibility. Headset, camera, and at least a DualShock 4.
If psvr2 has inside out tracking, headset mounted camera, and the light bar isn't compatible with psvr1, why include it at all? What's it for?

It's compatible. Put your concerns aside.

Because it's a pretty big feature, not just a buzzword, and I find the idea of technology licenses interesting.

Have AMD licensed MS's patented implementation for RDNA2, for example. If so, has that license transferred across to a rivals console.

It's okay to make assumptions so long as you accept they're just that.
The VRS patent MS have is for VRS implementation within dx12 if I'm not mistaken. Has nothing to do with ps5 or amd using it in ps5. VRS isn't an MS ip.
 
Last edited: