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[PlayerNumber0ne]

CPUs clocked at 5 GHz in a console? I highly doubt it.

When current gen launched their zen2 cpu's clocked at 3.5 to 3.8 ghz and their Desktop counterparts clocked at 4.3
Zen6 Desktop will be in the 6ghz Range, I think its plausible for the ps6 cpu to reach 4.5 to 4.8 ghz and Helix at 5ghz

 

[Magic Carpet]

Hoping to see more SOC info on the PC side of things due to these consoles. 3 hours of Gamer Nexus video, PC in deep Sh%&.

 

[Negotiator101]

To be double the performance of the PS6? lol Are you mad?

I'm asking you question obviously, I don't know either way but presumably all advantages add up and on paper it has plenty.

 

[Xyphie]

Zen6c clocking above 4GHz would be a surprise IMO. AMD already ships Zen5c on 3nm in servers via Turin-Dense (EPYC 9965 and so on).

Clock rates there are:
Max. Boost Clock Up to 3.7 GHz
All Core Boost Speed 3.35 GHz
Base Clock 2.25 GHz

Expect something like that for Zen6c too, with maybe a small uplift to account for process refinements in N3P.

The handheld is probably going to clock even lower. If it's a 15W TDP chip you can maybe afford 0.5-1W per core? Expect something like 2.x GHz on the handheld for a default configuration (which maxes out GPU performance), maybe with modes that clock down the GPU to get better CPU performance as some optional thing a developer can chose to run for their game.

 

[tusharngf]

As per mlid 3 full fat performance zen 6 cores clocked above 5ghz for helix which seems too high to me. 6 to 7 times performance of xbox series x seems possible. $1200 is what I am willing to pay for this if it can run all my steam and epic games.

 

[PlayerNumber0ne]

Zen6c clocking above 4GHz would be a surprise IMO. AMD already ships Zen5c on 3nm in servers via Turin-Dense (EPYC 9965 and so on).

Clock rates there are:
Max. Boost Clock Up to 3.7 GHz
All Core Boost Speed 3.35 GHz
Base Clock 2.25 GHz

Expect something like that for Zen6c too, with maybe a small uplift to account for process refinements in N3P.

The handheld is probably going to clock even lower. If it's a 15W TDP chip you can maybe afford 0.5-1W per core? Expect something like 2.x GHz on the handheld for a default configuration (which maxes out GPU performance), maybe with modes that clock down the GPU to get better CPU performance as some optional thing a developer can chose to run for their game.

Make sense to clocked it so low with 192 Cores and something Like 300 Watts tdp, Even Full fat zen5 on a Epyc cpu's often has a Max boost clock of 4.4 ghz where Desktop 16 cores Are at 5.7 - 5.8

 

[Celcius]

I still feel like new consoles aren't needed right now though. What we need are price reductions.

 

[Sethbacca]

Nice OT! The cost of everything is kind of killing the joy of looking forward to new hardware, but I'm here for it anyway.

 

[Stuart360]

30-48gb ram?, ha good one.

 

[FalconPunch]

So the PS6 with 54CUs is 3x the PS5, but Helix with 68CUs is 5-6x Series X? Math isn't mathing.

Especially when the clock speeds of Helix are 500 mhz slower....

 

[yogaflame]

Thread to early

 

[HRK69]

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

30-48gb ram?, ha good one.

32GB is very possible from how the pattern was going.

PS4 had 8gb of shared memory which equals to around the time where 8GB was the system ram norm.

PS5 had 16gb of shared memory which equals to around the time when 16gb was the system ram norm.

And now in this current era 32gb of system ram is the standard for the coming years so PS6 should have 32gb of shared ram at least.

XBOX XXX Series is suppose to be stronger than the PS6 but more expensive so it would have even more shared ram than the PS6.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Wasnt the claimed bandwith of Helix somewhere around 720 gb/s according to mlid's leak

I was confused about the memory bandwidth on Helix yesterday and asked google AI for details, AI basically leaks insider informations that you won't find elsewhere.

 

[Stuart360]

32GB is very possible from how the pattern was going.

PS4 had 8gb of shared memory which equals to around the time where 8GB was the system ram norm.

PS5 had 16gb of shared memory which equals to around the time when 16gb was the system ram norm.

And now in this current era 32gb of system ram is the standard for the coming years so PS6 should have 32gb of shared ram at least.

XBOX XXX Series is suppose to be stronger than the PS6 but more expensive so it would have even more shared ram than the PS6.

I mean i could possible see 32gb of shared ram if there were no ram crisis, but thats the absolute limit for me.
I wouldnt be at all surprised if its more like 20gb shared ram with 16gb availabe for games, or 24gb shared, 20 available for games.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Wasnt the claimed bandwith of Helix somewhere around 720 gb/s according to mlid's leak

Anyway, The Elder Scrolls memory bandwidth and I can't wait to play tes6 on Helix, maybe it's just me but I feel like I'm getting 360 vibe on Helix.

 

[PlayerNumber0ne]

I was confused about the memory bandwidth on Helix yesterday and asked google AI for details, AI basically leaks insider informations that you won't find elsewhere.

For 1 Tb bandwith they need 42 gbps gddr7 memory modules on a 192 Bit bus… very unlikely

 

[PlayStaytion]

For 1 Tb bandwith they need 42 gbps gddr7 memory modules on a 192 Bit bus… very unlikely

Cerny could do it with that crazy ram he mentioned 13 years ago.

 

[PlayerNumber0ne]

Cerny could do it with that crazy ram he mentioned 13 years ago.

That was totally different using a small amount of esram to get effective 1tb bandwith, btw has someone leaked that Helix is using esram?

 

[Audiophile]

192-Bit Bus GDDR7 Speeds (XBOX Helix)

28Gbps = 672GB/s
30Gbps = 720GB/s
32Gbps = 768GB/s
34Gbps = 816GB/s
36Gbps = 864GB/s

160-Bit Bus GDDR7 Speeds (PS6)

28Gbps = 560GB/s
30Gbps = 600GB/s
32Gbps = 640GB/s
34Gbps = 680GB/s
36Gbps = 720GB/s

Doubt either will go below ~32Gbps and I don't see >36Gbps being available at volume for manufacture by the middle of next year (not to mention cost pressure).


I think it'll be:

- 36GB GDDR7 @ 864GB/s (12 x 24Gb @ 36Gbps via 192-Bit) for Helix

- 30GB GDDR7 @ 640GB/s (10 x 24Gb @ 32Gbps via 160-Bit) for PS6


My full GDDR speed/config guide:

GDDR Speeds

docs.google.com

 

[PlayerNumber0ne]

192-Bit Bus GDDR7 Speeds (XBOX Helix)

28Gbps = 672GB/s
30Gbps = 720GB/s
32Gbps = 768GB/s
34Gbps = 816GB/s
36Gbps = 864GB/s

160-Bit Bus GDDR7 Speeds (PS6)

28Gbps = 560GB/s
30Gbps = 600GB/s
32Gbps = 640GB/s
34Gbps = 680GB/s
36Gbps = 720GB/s

Doubt either will go below ~32Gbps and I don't see >36Gbps being available at volume for manufacture by the middle of next year (not to mention cost pressure).


I think it'll be:

- 36GB GDDR7 @ 864GB/s (12 x 24Gb @ 36Gbps via 192-Bit) for Helix

- 30GB GDDR7 @ 640GB/s (10 x 24Gb @ 32Gbps via 160-Bit) for PS6

Yeah very low memory bw increase against ps5 & xsx, it will be interesting to See how amd's universal compression works and how effective it is

 

[Audiophile]

Yeah very low memory bw increase against ps5 & xsx, it will be interesting to See how amd's universal compression works and how effective it is

Pinning a lot of hopes on 'Neural Texture Compression' as well, could be a major gamechanger if Sony/AMD can get a version of it up and running in good time for PS6.

 

[Shogmaster]

First a moment to remember the fallen from the previous thread. We salute you brothers and sisters. More, will no doubt join you. I've tried to collate what I can, if anything is wrong just give us a shout and I'll correct it and try to keep the first thread updated Base data is pretty much ripped from here.


Names
PlayStation: Strongly expected to be PlayStation 6
Xbox: Helix (codename only)


Unconfirmed Specifications (pieced together from leaks/articles)

Specs	PlayStation 6	Xbox Helix​
Process node	TSMC N2 (2nm)	TSMC N3P (3nm)​
Die size	280mm²	408mm²
CPU	8× Zen 6c +2 Zen 6 LP cores	3× Zen 6 + 8× Zen 6c (hybrid)​
CPU clock	4–5 GHz	At least 5 GHz, likely 5.5–6 GHz​
GPU	54 RDNA 5 CUs	68 RDNA 5 CUs
GPU clock	3 GHz	At least 2.5 GHz
RAM	30–40GB GDDR7 (TBC)	36–48GB GDDR7 (TBC)​
Memory bandwidth	640 GB/s (160-bit bus)	TBC (192-bit bus)​
Rasterization	3× PS5 (34–40 TFlops)	5–6× Xbox Series X​
Ray tracing	6–12× PS5	20× Xbox Series X​
Target output	4K/120Hz	4K/120Hz+

Hardware details

• Key RDNA 5 Technologies: Three technologies co-developed by AMD and Sony under Project Amethyst are expected to feature in both consoles. That is confirmed for the PS6 by Mark Cerny, and presumed for Project Helix, given that they are core RDNA 5 architectural features, though Microsoft has not explicitly confirmed this.
  • Radiance Cores: Dedicated hardware for ray and path tracing, taking full control of ray traversal and freeing shader cores for their primary functions
  • Neural Arrays: GPU compute units grouped to function as a unified AI engine, enabling better upscaling and denoising at lower GPU cost
  • Universal Compression: A pipeline-level software layer compressing all data types to effectively boost memory bandwidth without additional hardware cost
• Dedicated NPU: Both consoles feature a Neural Processing Unit to handle ML-driven tasks, which will be a lot more important in the next console generation.

Handheld crossover
Rumour | Sony's heavily rumored Project Canis, a dedicated PlayStation handheld reportedly launching alongside or shortly after the PS6. Leaked specs point to a monolithic APU on TSMC 3nm with 16 RDNA 5 compute units, 4× Zen 6c cores for games, and LPDDR5X memory. It would deliver roughly a quarter of the PS6's rasterization performance in handheld mode, with stronger-than-expected ray tracing thanks to RDNA 5 efficiency gains. Sony has been updating PS5 developer kits to support "Low Power Mode" with games running on just eight CPU threads, widely interpreted as quiet preparation for handheld hardware.
Rumour | Cancelled


Rumoured Pricing
Both consoles are expected to be priced as premium products in a speculated range:
Sony: $550 - $800
Xbox: $900 - $1200


Fidelity Strategies
Both companies seem to be pushing for 4K/120Hz as the premium experience, which will be facilitated by heavy investment into

• Neural engines for upscaling resolution: Xbox is expected to persist with FSR, while Sony continue to develop PSSR
• AI frame generation
• Ray regeneration

The different approaches/strategy
Microsoft (PC-Console hybrid)
Seem to be banking on high end, premium device to really focus on ray tracing and high frame rates
Seems to be focused on bringing together different ecosystems with Xbox as the access point (e.g. boot up Xbox or into Xbox mode and load up multiple libraries/storefronts)
Backward compatibility is a core mandate for legacy libraries and game preservation

Sony (Traditional immersive living room experience)
Seem to be seeking a more balanced, power efficient means of delivery and relying on RDNA+ features to deliver the premium feel
Continuing on their core business of closed, highly optimised hardware and a renewed focus on first party exclusive titles
Core integration with other devices like the rumoured handheld and companion devices

1. They are both 3nm. I dunno where f you got 2nm for PS6.

2. PS6 is only using dense cores for Zen 6. Zen 5c only goes to 3.3GHz. 4GHz is probably what PS6 and Helix dense cores will clock up to. Anything beyond that is wishful thinking.

3. PS6 has only 160W TBP while Helix is 300W+. How would PS6 clock its GPU @ 3GHz?

Stahp.

If anything, Helix would clock its GPU @ 3GHz or more, while PS6 would be limited to 2.6ish GHz due to power limit.

4. It's 52 vs 68 CUs. 54 vs 70 if you dont count disabled.

 

[reezoo]

Does anyone know how much processing power is required for path tracing to become default rendering with scaling ?

 

[Shogmaster]

Does anyone know how much processing power is required for path tracing to become default rendering with scaling ?

[pulled from mah butt] Prolly ~48 CU of RDNA 5 @ 3 GHz would give you FSR5 performance to 4K (from 1080p) for RE9 style Path Tracing ~60 fps. [/pulled from mah butt]

 

[Tobimacoss]

1. They are both 3nm. I dunno where f you got 2nm for PS6.

2. PS6 is only using dense cores for Zen 6. Zen 5c only goes to 3.3GHz. 4GHz is probably what PS6 and Helix dense cores will clock up to. Anything beyond that is wishful thinking.

3. PS6 has only 160W TBP while Helix is 300W+. How would PS6 clock its GPU @ 3GHz?

Stahp.

If anything, Helix would clock its GPU @ 3GHz or more, while PS6 would be limited to 2.6ish GHz due to power limit.

4. It's 52 vs 68 CUs. 54 vs 70 if you dont count disabled.

Thanks for correcting the OP, it had multiple things wrong.

K KeplerL2 already stated Helix will likely be 3+ ghz.

 

[PlayStaytion]

For 1 Tb bandwith they need 42 gbps gddr7 memory modules on a 192 Bit bus… very unlikely

Maybe you're right but that number came from discussions happening inside XBOX hardware team, the number actually greater than 1TB/s and the change undoubtedly will follow the rest of the die architecture.

 

[cormack12]

1. They are both 3nm. I dunno where f you got 2nm for PS6.

The source is literally in the first 2/3 lines of the OP.

2. PS6 is only using dense cores for Zen 6. Zen 5c only goes to 3.3GHz. 4GHz is probably what PS6 and Helix dense cores will clock up to. Anything beyond that is wishful thinking.

3. PS6 has only 160W TBP while Helix is 300W+. How would PS6 clock its GPU @ 3GHz?

Stahp.

If anything, Helix would clock its GPU @ 3GHz or more, while PS6 would be limited to 2.6ish GHz due to power limit.

4. It's 52 vs 68 CUs. 54 vs 70 if you dont count disabled.

The point is to update the OP with new/correct info from the baseline it was started with. If you have this info, then just provide a source? Or the next guy after you posts something else and you're both at a stalemate. For example 2 and 3 are more questions for the thread without a source......

 

[PlayStaytion]

That was totally different using a small amount of esram to get effective 1tb bandwith, btw has someone leaked that Helix is using esram?

No, I'm just spitting random numbers.

 

[Radical_3d]

40+ year olds nerds who only play on PC anyway argue about the most miniscule of details of a SoC design that nobody that actually buys the damn things later on will ever care about. Sounds like a good time.

This is why I pay internet for.

3. PS6 has only 160W TBP

ooffff… I forgot about that leaked 160W figure. And people are expecting this feeble piece of shit to be expensive lmao

Kutaragi is disappointed with you, Nishino.

 

[bitbydeath]

ooffff… I forgot about that leaked 160W figure. And people are expecting this feeble piece of shit to be expensive lmao

Kutaragi is disappointed with you, Nishino.

PS5 is 200-250W so that number is probably incorrect unless Sony has discovered something new.

 

[Zuzu]

I hope that PS6 will support all the PS5 peripherals without any restrictions. There's still some PS5 peripherals that still haven't come out like the arcade stick and the Pulse Elevate speakers. It'd be crazy if these are on the market for like one year (if they're released at the end of this year) and then they're not fully supported for PS6 games.

And the Dualsense Edge costs so much that I hope it will be fully compatible with all PS6 games and not locked to PS5 games only. Edge owners deserve to have their expensive controllers supported beyond the PS5 generation.

 

[Bergoglio]

Could the next Xbox really be that powerful? Would it actually make a significant difference for multiplatform games compared to the PS6?

 

[OLED_Gamer]

I'm eyeing these hard. I am buying a new home and will have a cutout/recess above the fireplace to place consoles and hide the TV wall mount. Gonna be another OLED up there.

I'm really enjoying PSSR2 and don't really miss my 9070xt PC since having it. FSR5 on consoles is going to be mighty appetizing.

 

[Audiophile]

I hope that PS6 will support all the PS5 peripherals without any restrictions. There's still some PS5 peripherals that still haven't come out like the arcade stick and the Pulse Elevate speakers. It'd be crazy if these are on the market for like one year (if they're released at the end of this year) and then they're not fully supported for PS6 games.

And the Dualsense Edge costs so much that I hope it will be fully compatible with all PS6 games and not locked to PS5 games only. Edge owners deserve to have their expensive controllers supported beyond the PS5 generation.

PSVR2 will require 3 official daisy-chained, bespoke adapters to function on PS6; all sold separately. Approximately 12 units of each will be manufactured every year, 11 of which will be sold in a thrift shop in Papa New Guinea, opening hours 10:00-11:45, price on request. Postal order or phone only.


The catch? Only one eye at a time.

 

[SupremeJ]

K KeplerL2 already stated Helix will likely be 3+ ghz.

Nahh.... It probably wouldn't be possible to make it silent even with a 15 cm fan.

I'm guessing 250W max and 2.5 GHZ, in an XSX-like case, where the top-pull fan is a brilliant design.

 

[Audiophile]

I expect the 160W figure for PS6 is just for the APU.

Another ~90w for everything else.

Something like 200-230w avg., 250-60w peak and ~320w PSU rating for peak efficiency.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Wait PS6 is 2nm and helix is 3?

K KeplerL2 help

 

[SupremeJ]

Helix probably will be ~ 2800MHz on GPU side and ~ 60 TFLOPs (dual issue). This can still be quiet in a console-sized case.

In TOPSs it will be HEAVY, ~ 1000 - 1500 INT8.

 

[Richard92]

Wait PS6 is 2nm and helix is 3?

K KeplerL2 help

They are both 3nm Definitely
I think made a mistake in writing

 

[Putonahappyface]

Which ever one has a disc drive at launch gets my money.

 

[SupremeJ]

Which ever one has a disc drive at launch gets my money.

Disc drive?! Is that what you need for spinning discs that were all the rage a decade ago?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Which ever one has a disc drive at launch gets my money.

And what if both have detachable drives sold separately of course

 

[Putonahappyface]

Disc drive?! Is that what you need for spinning discs that were all the rage a decade ago?

Are you one of them?

 

[SupremeJ]

Are you one of them?

You own nothing completely on this earth, except the knowledge you have acquired.

 

[Putonahappyface]

And what if both have detachable drives sold separately of course

I'll have three consoles sat underneath my tv if there are exclusives, or if a multi platform game plays better on one than the other.

 

[Kazekage1981]

200GB/sec difference in RAM bandwidth between PS6 and Helix is a huge difference

PS4 to PS4 Pro RAM bandwidth difference: 42GB/sec difference
PS5 to PS5 Pro RAM bandwidth difference: 128GB/sec difference

In a sense, Helix is already a PS6Pro....

 

[KeplerL2]

Wait PS6 is 2nm and helix is 3?

K KeplerL2 help

Orion/Canis use N3C and Magnus/AT2 use N3P