Support NeoGAF

[adamsapple]

The only real difference I see between the two studios, is that Turn 10 have a far better output than PD, which is weird as Turn 10 has like 180 employees and PD has 300.

Yeah, the gap between F7 to now is the only time Turn 10 hasn't delivered a new Forza like clockwork, but we can probably chalk it down to covid related delays and that they've been working on a brand new engine for the next game, the new engine that will no doubt be used for the next Forza Horizon as well.

I'm not really that big of a fan of track based racing games, but if FH5 can look that good with a cross-gen engine, the prospect of a new built-from-ground-up for next gen Horizon is just mouth watering.

 

[RoyBatty]

Yeah, feels like forza workflow was: coat shader, finish.

It looks more like GT7 has low quality ones, but appear the "coat shader" on the photo mode.

From this thread (photo mode):

 

[unclbenn]

the paint shaders have been winning for gt since 5. there's something so tangible about the way they render their car paint.

 

[Craig of War]

Im just patiently waiting for this to come out later this year. It will be the truly next gen only no more cross gen bullshit holding it back racing game we all been waiting to see.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Here you go
FH5 (pc) vs GT7 (PS5) all gameplay

And this is GT7 gameplay vs photomode

They improved some models compared to GTS but they are still lower quality compared to photomode models which are one of the best models ever. Shame they couldn't get those model runing during gameplay, atleast use them when there is only 1 car like FM does it in its time trial mode on older consoles.

God damn GT got smacked. impressive Forza Horizon. and open world game too. Honestly PD is no longer what they used to be. come later this year when FM is out... oooo heads will turn too.

 

[adamsapple]

I can't believe you guys continue posting PC shots to compare to console games lol

Same happened in the past with GTS but at least this time it is being said it is PC... in the past tried to pass FH4 PC pics as Xbox One X.

Series X Quality mode is equivalent to PC Ultra settings and in some areas exceeds PC Ultra settings as per DF.

Native 4K, 4XMSAA on top of that. No need to use PC version at all.

Time stamped in video below:

 

[T0minator]

 

[l2ounD]

Nurburgring in the rain at night feels

 

[Darsxx82]

Im just patiently waiting for this to come out later this year. It will be the truly next gen only no more cross gen bullshit holding it back racing game we all been waiting to see.

I think that the expectations with FM8 for the mere fact of being only NextGen are being exaggerated. No matter how nextGen the hardware may be, it has limitations and everything will depend on the target you are betting on. We can forget about something that exposes FH 5 and GT7 if the target is native 4K, perfect 60fps and I'm not going to tell you if RT during gameplay...

Then, between PG, PD and T10, it is the latter that has the most to prove in recent years. Now they have the opportunity with the extra years of development and no limitation of the Oldgen. Now they have no excuse.

FM7 had many things to improve, especially the race environment was lacking. I expect lively boxes, SC and atmosphere around the circuits. My fear is that too much time is spent on simulation improvements and FM8 is "the same as FM7 but more beautiful and realistic". Then it will be a disappointment.

I have much more faith in PG. FH6 only NextGen, yes, I am clear that it will be a qualitative leap. The background of the jump from FH2 to FH3 is still present in my memory.

 

[Turk1993]

Maybe these are normal Replay? RT Replay are really staggering.

Those are photomode shots with RT enabled, you can see the self reflections on the hood and the mirrors.

 

[Fredrik]

Nurburgring in the rain at night feels

The cockpit view is glorious!Biggest upgrade so far in the IP. The race track visuals has been a bit of a disappointment for me so far though.

 

[nemiroff]

I always agreed, but I have to disagree this time. FH looks more realistic to my eyes.

Yeah, I mean, Forza used to lack the last few tasteful lighting and shader touches back in the days and it's true that it made it look "off". But then they started to turn it around and with Forza Horizon 5 the old tired arguments have worn as thin and useless as can be. Also, again, it's an open world go anywhere racer being compared to a corridor racer.. , and that's kinda mind-blowing in itself.

 

[Senua]

Yes, here are some more examples

Those interiors tho

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Gt7 car models and lighting (superb dynamic daytime and rain) are probably most impressive I've ever seen. Environment details is lacking, popup and shadow drawing is unfortunately visible.

 

[Senua]

Gt7 car models and lighting (superb dynamic daytime and rain) are probably most impressive I've ever seen. Environment details is lacking, popup and shadow drawing is unfortunately visible.

the red and yellow 911s look so real!

 

[Markio128]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

 

[adamsapple]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

Oh I don't know, when you're in-game the pictures posted by Turk1993 seem to show the opposite.

GT probably replaces with a muuuuch higher detail model in the garage views.


Left: FH5, Right: GT7

 

[SeraphJan]

Hope no one minds if I spread some FH5 love here.

In terms of details on the vehicles, GT7 trumps FH5 but the excellent and varied environmental detail and the still-rather-excellent car models make the overall picture look better in FH5 to me compared to GT7.

I'm taking one for wallpaper

 

[Markio128]

Oh I don't know, when you're in-game the pictures posted by Turk1993 seem to show the opposite.

GT probably replaces higher detail models in the garage views.


Left: FH5, Right: GT7

Mmmm. Those GT7 shots look like the PS4 version based on the grass textures in the top right pic - PS5 version has much better grass textures than that as you can see in race photos provided by others above. If that’s the case, then the PS4 version runs at 1080p.

 

[Turk1993]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

That one is in scape mode and uses car models that are 2 lods higher with tessellation. I have made a post some months ago how i explained how the lod system works in GT.
Here this is what i posted GT7 deep forest thread months ago

Problem is you will never see those models in game or even photomode, since the only place you see them are scapes which is just car lod0 placed on a real picture. The real in game car model is soo much inferior to the models used in scape that its not even comparable. There is a reason why they removed the 360 camera view from 3d persone after the beta. The in game model uses LOD2 which doesn't look anything like LOD0, let me show you
Left is gameplay and right is photomode

And now look how much the scape model enhances over the photomode model and adds all the little details
left is photomode right is scape mode

And in modern cars with more round body work its even worse.
Left is gameplay right is photomode

And look at the difference between scape and photomode, look at the wheel missing the corvette detail entirely.
Photomode left scape mode right

I really hope they use the highest LOD this time in GT7 because it really doesn't look good outside the cockpit view which is great. They create one of the best car models and put soo much time and effort in them just to use them in scapes. The PS5 is more than powerfull enough to handle those models in game.

 

[Turk1993]

Mmmm. Those GT7 shots look like the PS4 version based on the grass textures in the top right pic - PS5 version has much better grass textures than that as you can see in race photos provided by others above. If that’s the case, then the PS4 version runs at 1080p.

It was all captured from my PS5. And thats how lod works in GT, just look at my post above and you will see it.

 

[Turk1993]

Markio128 Here are the full pictures

 

[Three]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

GT cars are modelled with a god like degree of accuracy. Imagine it on a next gen engine like UE5 where hard cut LOD is a thing of the past. Only problem would be hitting 60fps. I wouldn't even mind a 30fps driveclub type game using their models.

Series X Quality mode is equivalent to PC Ultra settings and in some areas exceeds PC Ultra settings as per DF.

That's 30fps mode though. That's equivalent to trying to pass off GT replays as gameplay.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

The cars are more detailed, but with the way LOD works, you can't really see it during gameplay.

 

[Turk1993]

GT cars are modelled with a god like degree of accuracy. Imagine it on a next gen engine like UE5 where hard cut LOD is a thing of the past. Only problem would be hitting 60fps. I wouldn't even mind a 30fps driveclub type game using their models.


That's 30fps mode though. That's equivalent to trying to pass off GT replays as gameplay.

Sony does own the Driveclub ip and they invested in UE5. They could easily make there PGR/FH/DC type game with GTs car models and physics in UE5.

 

[adamsapple]

That's 30fps mode though. That's equivalent to trying to pass off GT replays as gameplay.

No it isn't.

FH's Quality Mode is real time game play, every asset is generated and controlled in real time. GT's replays are canned playback where it swaps higher LoD models than when you're actually playing.

Not the same thing at all.

 

[Markio128]

The cars are more detailed, but with the way LOD works, you can't really see it during gameplay.

Maybe, but I wouldn’t notice because I always play GT7 with the in-car view. Just for the sake of comparison, here is a shot I took of The Lexus in replay mode:

 

[Turk1993]

Maybe, but I wouldn’t notice because I always play GT7 with the in-car view. Just for the sake of comparison, here is a shot I took of The Lexus in replay mode:

Thats photomode my man, that like 1 frame per 1/10th of a second
This is how it looks in replay mode

 

[Markio128]

Thats photomode my man, that like 1 frame per 1/10th of a second
This is how it looks in replay mode

I think we are both trying to make different points here fella.

 

[Three]

No it isn't lol.

FH 5 Quality mode is game play, it's not a separate mode that adds extra LoD that can't be interacted with while actually playing the game.

It's like saying how Horizon FW's 30 FPS Quality mode doesn't count cause it's like watching the game in photo mode.

What do you mean "LOD that can't be interacted with"? There is no interaction with higher triangle counts when their interaction are just simple hitboxes. It's GPU bound meaning going to 30fps mode in gameplay or replay is the same. The point is that 30fps mode affords you higher settings/LOD in both modes.

 

[RoyBatty]

The cars in GT7 are clearly more detailed than those in FH5; heck, even GT Sport cars are more detailed than those in FH5 - any that dispute this need to check out the countless FH5 vs GT Sport detailed car comparisons. It’s embarrassing that people argue this tbh.

We are talking on gameplay mode, that is what you play. Photo mode comparisons are useless.

 

[SLB1904]

We are talking on gameplay mode, that is what you play. Photo mode comparisons are useless.

You don't get to pick what's valid lol

 

[adamsapple]

What do you mean "LOD that can't be interacted with"? There is no interaction with higher triangle counts when their interaction are just simple hitboxes. It's GPU bound meaning going to 30fps mode in gameplay or replay is the same. The point is that 30fps mode affords you higher settings/LOD in both modes.

Your comparison with GT's replay mode is inaccurate. FH's Quality mode you actually play, GT's replay mode is just canned playback.

That's not a valid comparison at all. If you wanna compare both's photo mode or replays that's a different thing. But you're literally comparing real time game play in one versus replays in another.

 

[Markio128]

What do you mean "LOD that can't be interacted with". There is no interaction with higher triangle counts when their interaction are just simple hitboxes. It's GPU bound meaning going to 30fps mode in gameplay or replay is the same. The point is that 30fps mode affords you higher settings/LOD in both modes.

Hitting native 4k and near-constant 60fps is always going to come with caveats. I don’t think PD would be interested in a 30fps mode because 60fps is massively important for sims. FH5 performance mode has its own caveats, which is understandable.

 

[RoyBatty]

You don't get to pick what's valid lol

So post a render then, LMAO.

 

[SLB1904]

Thats photomode my man, that like 1 frame per 1/10th of a second
This is how it looks in replay mode

Do you have some cockpit views pics?

So post a render then, LMAO.

I will if I feel like lol
I'm not the one policing people

 

[Markio128]

Your comparison with GT's replay mode is inaccurate. FH's Quality mode you actually play, GT's replay mode is just canned playback.

That's not a valid comparison at all. If you wanna compare both's photo mode or replays that's a different thing. But you're literally comparing real time game play in one versus replays in another.

We can’t compare like-for-like because GT7 doesn’t have a quality 30fps mode.

 

[RoyBatty]

We can’t compare like-for-like because GT7 doesn’t have a quality 30fps mode.

You can compare with the 60 FPS mode.

 

[Markio128]

You can compare with the 60 FPS mode.

You can, but nobody is

 

[Turk1993]

I think we are both trying to make different points here fella.

You first called my PS5 shots PS4 shots, than you posted this by saying that its from replay mode (which it is not since the photomode logo is literally on the bottom left on the pic).

Maybe, but I wouldn’t notice because I always play GT7 with the in-car view. Just for the sake of comparison, here is a shot I took of The Lexus in replay mode:

We can’t compare like-for-like because GT7 doesn’t have a quality 30fps mode.

People posted car models from FH5 XSX 60fps mode and they still looked the same

Do you have some cockpit views pics?

Yes im working on it

 

[adamsapple]

We can’t compare like-for-like because GT7 doesn’t have a quality 30fps mode.

I understand. But that's not really FH's fault. It offers a visual mode that exceeds Ultra settings on PC on the console that runs as real time as can be.

That being said, FH's Performance mode also only strips some environmental effects and LoD, it has no reported effect on car LoDs, or at least I can't find any mention of it in either of DF's big exhaustive articles.

Forza Horizon 5 hands-on: a next-gen spectacle for Xbox Series consoles

Forza Horizon 5 has gone gold, the game arrives less than two weeks from now and recently, press had the chance to go h…

www.eurogamer.net

The technology of Forza Horizon 5: an Xbox Series X masterpiece

For nearly as long as video games have existed, the racing game has stood as a monument to state-of-the-art technology …

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Bernd Lauert]

In FH5 cars look the same in both modes, so not sure what the discussion is about.

 

[RoyBatty]

There are FH5 performance mode gameplay shots vs GT7 on gameplay shots?

I've it on PC but runs on 60+ even on 4K Ultra.

 

[adamsapple]

In FH5 cars look the same in both modes, so not sure what the discussion is about.

Exactly, the only thing it strips is environmental effects, draw distance etc. It has no bearing on car detail or LoD in either mode.

 

[Anchovie123]

you know you are in a technical thread right?
this isnt an opinion.

this is how rain looks in real life

Wow this looks terrible, theres no mirrors on the floor!

/s

 

[Markio128]

I understand. But that's not really FH's fault.

That being said, FH's Performance mode also only strips some environmental effects and LoD, it has no reported effect on car LoDs, or at least I can't find any mention of it in either of DF's big exhaustive articles.

Forza Horizon 5 hands-on: a next-gen spectacle for Xbox Series consoles

Forza Horizon 5 has gone gold, the game arrives less than two weeks from now and recently, press had the chance to go h…

www.eurogamer.net

The technology of Forza Horizon 5: an Xbox Series X masterpiece

For nearly as long as video games have existed, the racing game has stood as a monument to state-of-the-art technology …

www.eurogamer.net

Cause there's no reported difference in the actual car models. Environments, yes, car models, no.

Like I alluded to before, it really is a moot point for me because I only play racers with the cockpit view, which is maybe why I didn’t enjoy FH5 as much as others, because the internal dash view is not so good. In GT7, you can smoothly move the camera around inside the car and when you look behind you, you get to see the internal rear of the car, including the rear seats and windscreen, rather than a camera outside the car, like in FH5. It’s clear what PD focused on - the immersion of feeling like you are in a real car.

 

[//DEVIL//]

impressive work Turk1993 .

from my understanding , in photo mode GT7 is much higher details than say FH5. but when it comes to actual gameplay graphics ( where it actually counts ) FH5 has much higher details.

 

[Turk1993]

impressive work Turk1993 .

from my understanding , in photo mode GT7 is much higher details than say FH5. but when it comes to actual gameplay graphics ( where it actually counts ) FH5 has much higher details.

Yeah the photomode models are better in GT7 overall (outside few models) but in gameplay because they use lower quality lod Forza's models look better.

Like I alluded to before, it really is a moot point for me because I only play racers with the cockpit view, which is maybe why I didn’t enjoy FH5 as much as others, because the internal dash view is not so good. In GT7, you can smoothly move the camera around inside the car and when you look behind you, you get to see the internal rear of the car, including the rear seats and windscreen, rather than a camera outside the car, like in FH5. It’s clear what PD focused on - the immersion of feeling like you are in a real car.

Yeah cockpit view is incredible in GT7 and clearly the focus, i mean almost every footage they posted was from the cockpit view pre release. I have a cockpit comparison coming soon, and there GT really shines.

 

[Markio128]

Yeah the photomode models are better in GT7 overall (outside few models) but in gameplay because they use lower quality lod Forza's models look better.

Yeah cockpit view is incredible in GT7 and clearly the focus, i mean almost every footage they posted was from the cockpit view pre release. I have a cockpit comparison coming soon, and there GT really shines.

The way the headlights from a car behind you flood the interior really is one of the most impressive things I have ever witnessed in a game.

 

[SLB1904]