Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I did miss your previous post and didn't even see @Hage Kamo's post, they got lost in the pile of posts and I was on my phone at my cabin with kbps speed internet. I just read your fanboy post. Having seen both I stand by what I said.
It just seems when people disagree the "fanboy" monicker comes out as if it's a valid argument on GAF. It's not, and it's not a contribution to the discussion. Sorry if me pointing that out offended you, that wasn't the point. You are right though, there is absolutely a bias for everyone posting in this thread, everyone has their favorites.
I also know that @Hage Kamo only has a base PS4 which he's stated multiple times. That's why I ask someone likeSebmugi to post some shots from a PS4 Pro so I could come to my own conclusions. I like to think
I can prefer one and still concede points where another is better. Frankly they all suck shit in one area or another as quite a few people here have pointed out, myself included.
In @Hage Kamo's post replying to you it actually looks like he posted an image he's posted before. I assume he grabbed the wrong link so I outright ignored that comparison since it made no sense. @Hage Kamo has pointed out the gameplay LOD drop in GTS multiple times in this thread, I assume that was what he was showing in that post as well.
Now that I've looked back, you showed a comparison that seemed to favor Forza 7 with the S2000's reflection and headlight effects actually appearing on the track surface where as in GTS they are MIA. I'm assuming from your more recent post however you intended to point out the headlight effects in both games, and not GTS' missing reflections and light pattern. Your other comparison is a shot pointed off-track in FM7 on the Ring GP track vs. a shot straight down the city track in GTS. This isn't exactly a straight on comparison itself and nobody pointed any fingers at you for that comparison. It is showing one of the weaknesses of using duplicate assets for reflections, which I've also pointed out in this thread with distant car reflections appearing through the ground.
I'm sure you realise my observations are of what I've seen on forums and YouTube. I've stated many times I don't have a PS4 or PS4 Pro to make the comparisons otherwise I'd just post from the game myself. I could throw up GT6 shots all day, but they tend to look pretty rough these days. I also don't have an X1X, just a launch Xbone. I mostly rely on direct-feed video when I compare console versions or the images people post here. If people are posting bullshit images I'm sure they'll get called out as it's happened several times in the thread already.
DOF and camera angles absolutely do. Used together they can change the way an entire setting looks. A game can look like a pile of shit under scrutiny, but add in some DOF here, a wide angle lense there and better viewing angle here and you can control how much jankyness gets through.
I can't speak to how accurate these images comparo are as I also don't have an X, just an OG Bone sitting under my TV collecting dust. I blew it off and grabbed a shot of the S2000 and a PC shot on low settings for the car models. I see C carsar andDynamiteCop! both posted in-game shots showing a much higher detail AI model in-game, so I'm not sure what's up with your results. Maybe it's due to it being a rain race as T Three suggested.
The only way I can come close to replicating that LOD that close to the car is playing it on my launch base Xbone in a rain race or setting my PC to Very Low:
Launch Xbone (Full car field, Hockenheimring, heavy rain).
PC on Very Low settings:
PC on Ultra settings:
These are resized gifs. Resized gifs still don't hide my point here. In the top images the background trees are blurred from an aperture effect. Despite being shrunk, the effect is still quite apparent. The effect hides aliasing among other things like missing details or the fact that the entire row of trees in the background is a big flat surface. There also seems to be a big jump in the particles used for the rain effect in the replay. If I'm to base things off just your comparison here, there are absolutely improvements made during replays in GTS. I wasn't shaming GTS for this anyways, the use of these effects adds to the replays and makes them look much better than in-game visuals. I've shit on Forza 7's replays since I started posting here, they're shit-tier. The poor use or complete lack of effects hurts Forza 7's replays massively. If anything I think T10 needs to take a page out of this book. I think SMS had it right with the first PCars and somehow took a step back in PCars 2. GTS's use of visual effects to improve replays along with wise replay angle choices is why it has the best replays.
Gameplay followed by replay
Watch that video in 4K/60, observe the pop and fade in during the gameplay, then observe the lack of both during the replay. It also demonstrates quite clearly that DOF and aperture effects are used frequently, just as your resized gif did. Again, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.
The car models do take a massive hit when going into actual gameplay, and there are countless examples of this in the thread. Shadow quality in gameplay modes is also different than in replays, with clear steps in quality during gameplay that are not present during replays. Again, good, they have the added resources suring replays, why not use them?
There is a hard line just ahead of the car where the shadow quality drops to a blurry mess.
In replay mode you can see the shadow quality drop line is no longer present
I posted a GTS video a while back of the Beetle on the city track showing how massive of a downgrade the cars can have between in-game and replay. The Beetle's tail lights become xeptagons in-game.
There is a ton of shit to hide in almost any game when you get too close. There isn't a game on the market that you can't tear apart under scrutiny.
The really funny thing with these shots is that you don't even have to come to a complete stop on this track for it to fall apart in FM7, it was actually downgraded in complexity from the version of the track used in Forza 6, which was a downgrade in complexity from Forza 5. It's easy to explain why though. This is one of the tracks in the game that has all the possible TOD and weather options open, and still allows a full 24 car field so they cut the scenery to bare minimum so that it could run on the base Xbone at a locked 60fps. No denying it looks rough. You should try taking a screenshot on this track at night with the exposure up, it looks like an N64 game on the OG XBone. Definitely a sore spot for the game.
The phrase "high quality motion blur" is a contradiction. Motion blur should have one setting, off.
All three major "sim" racers, Forza 7, GTS, and Project Cars 2 are completely hit-or-miss in a lot of areas. I'm pretty sure at this point in the thread we've reached a concensus on more than a few points.
-One of those was that GTS uses better shaders than Forza 7 on many surfaces, though I'd argue that some materials like rubber in Forza look more convincing. I'd argue Horizon 4 handles things equally as well as GTS for the most part.
-The lighting engine in GTS is handled much better overall, I don't think anybody is arguing that either. I'd argue here again, especially given the open world and random weather possibilities, Horizon 4 handles lighting even better than GTS does.
-Nobody is arguing the car model accuracy in GT is superior to the Forza games, though limited in both number and missing any sort of damage model. GT Sport car models in-game are another matter entirely, there is a massive poly count drop. Between the fact they have full damage models and you can run the entire 32 car field with Ultra LOD on a PC, I'd give this one to Project Cars 2.
-I will also argue the quality of track and near-track surfaces in Forza 7, as well as the texture quality in general is much better than either Project Cars 2 or GT Sport. There was a comparison a few pages back that showed this pretty well. Now once again I'll bring Horizon 4 into things, many items in the game's world has a version for each season, and it all still has to look decent up close since you can drive into it all. Looking into things like trees, Horizon has all modeled trees, which move in the wind and all but the biggest trees can be destroyed by the cars.
-When it comes to the weather effects, compared with DC's over the top fantastical effects, FH4's literally random weather and seasons, PC2's ability to make it sunny, rain or snow on and track, FM7's fairly limited system and even old PGR4 which portrayed all four seasons, GTS is was behind. Even GT6 has more weather options. The visual representation of it's limited weather system is also not up to par with the rest. Considering everything, I have to give this to FH4 again. Though the seasons are sectioned, there are big changes to the environments with the different seasons like higher rivers, frozen lakes, changes to the trees, etc.
-Photomode hands down goes to GTS. They've been improving this mode since it was first implemented. Horizon 4 and PCars 2 can produce some really great shots as well but GTS has a definite edge. FM7 shots can look really good, but the photomode has low quality DOF, Bokeh, and the motion blur effect is abysmal.
-Replays. Just like above, GTS is building on what started with the first GT. PCars is decent, though rough at times. Forza 7 uses poor angles, poor effects and uses too many moving/panning on a rail style angles. Horizon 4 doesn't even have mounted camera points making them even worse.
This was something in Forza 7 I didn't like either and again attribute to the game needing to run at all on the base console. The interiors and the interior lighting effects were greatly improved for Horizon 4, as well as these headlight effects, so hopefully they stay improved for Forza 8. That said, there were improvements in Horizon 3 that missed Forza 7...
The cubemap reflections used for the interiors in GTS are definitely something everyone else needs to copy/paste, they add a lot to the interiors that have chrome parts.
Forza Motorsport 4 gameplay:
The demo was removed a while back and replaced with a 4 hour trail of the full download. He's running the 4 hour trial which should be exactly the same as the full release.
Well that was a fun waste of time. Until next time
It's not a waste of time most appreciate your detailed posts.
How do you set up race to include S2000s etc, I'm struggling somehow lol. And do you just taking pics with the inbuilt screenshot function. I got a X I'll try and post a comparison.
