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[Hunnybun]

You are right. Diminishing returns, unfortunately.

In fact probably it will be one of the biggest leaps in the console history.

I think the 4 factor increase in resolution is probably the biggest ever, isn't it? That's got a lot to do with why the leap isn't as impressive as some of the others.

I won't say not impressive, because it still looks a big leap to me even discounting the 4k.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

I think nothing beats the 16bit to 32bit gen leap. We went from 2D pixels to fully 3D textured worlds.

Yes, the biggest jump.

Only VR can be in the same sentence.

 

[farmerboy]

You are right. Diminishing returns, unfortunately.

In fact probably it will be one of the biggest leaps in the console history.

At first glance, especially on known IPs, the leap does not look that big. I think the brain does a great job of filling in the blanks. Also; diminishing returns.

But look a little closer and you can see the difference.

And use a little logic; close to 8-9 times the power, double ram (also significantly faster) and vastly improved IO WILL result in phenomenal games. Just you wait and see.

 

[Vasto]

btw when you see the next ND game I am pretty sure you will change your mind.

I already know it will take a few years before the true next gen games start coming. This is why Microsoft is going cross gen for 1 or 2 years.

 

[Stuart360]

The price of 4k and pushing for ray tracing before the tech is quite there, its just the way it is. Can you imagine if we were getting 10tf and 12tf consoles targeting 1440p?, the jump would probably of been huge.

 

[Hunnybun]

Yes, the biggest jump.

Only VR can be in the same sentence.

I'm not sure but I can well believe that was the biggest leap in computing power

But in terms of what 'felt' most impressive, it's just so subjective.

As you say, the 32 bit graphics were really ugly. Even at the time - and of course the existence of vastly more impressive arcade games didn't exactly help.

For me the most mind blowing leap I personally experienced was Mario 64, which is pretty crazy considering it wasn't even really a generational leap.

 

[Astral Dog]

The problem is that the main differences CAN'T be shown in screenshoots but in the wonderful animations and transitions made possible by the CPU and SSD.

I expect lots of "you have to see it in person to believe it" and " now i know what next gen is about" threads when people get their hands on the PS5s and Series Xs

 

[Hunnybun]

The price of 4k and pushing for ray tracing before the tech is quite there, its just the way it is. Can you imagine if we were getting 10tf and 12tf consoles targeting 1440p?, the jump would probably of been huge.

Well the unreal demo is 1440p and that's absolutely incredible looking, so there you go.

It's so disappointing to me that developers are choosing to use all that power on 4k.

Easily the worst possible use.

 

[Three]

Another thread...

The PS5 is showing launch window games that could all be run on the PS4 if they were scaled down on the grfx and res. Nothing more. The games that are for the PS5 are being built and won't be ready for another 18mths at the earliest. Same with the XsX.

What exactly are people trying to prove in these threads?

Playing ratchet and clank on current gen PS4:

Warp to world, kill 3 enemies.

3 minute loading screen.

Jump to world, rail grind for 10 seconds.

3 minute loading screen.

Warp to world, slide down a building

3 minute loading screen

"THIS IS SO FUN YOU GUYS."

No, this wouldn't work.

 

[Hunnybun]

The problem is that the main differences CAN'T be shown in screenshoots but in the wonderful animations and transitions made possible by the CPU and SSD.

I expect lots of "you have to see it in person to believe it" and " now i know what next gen is about" threads when people get their hands on the PS5s and Series Xs

Lol how can anyone see that Horizon gif and deny the generational leap. It looks like an offline render.

 

[Imtjnotu]

We'll see.

From 4 to 10tf and you're at "we'll see"....

 

[LittleBigGamer]

I already know it will take a few years before the true next gen games start coming. This is why Microsoft is going cross gen for 1 or 2 years.

Generation leap will be there day one, like Killzone shadow fall etc for the ps4. But as the generation becomes more mature, the difference will be even bigger.

 

[Birdo]

From 4 to 10tf and you're at "we'll see"....

TF's aren't everything. Did you not see Bug Snacks?

 

[Hunnybun]

I already know it will take a few years before the true next gen games start coming. This is why Microsoft is going cross gen for 1 or 2 years.

No Microsoft is going cross gen because they need to service their games pass subscribers.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I will reserve judgement until I'm looking at more than in engine cutscenes and pictures of them.

 

[carsar]

Another cherrypicking

 

[Imtjnotu]

TF's aren't everything. Did you not see Bug Snacks?

Nope. Didn't see bug snacks in the op's post

 

[Spukc]

This is my biggest wonder. How much farther can Naughty Dog, SP, Bend, GG and SSM, push visuals given such a huge increase in power

Imagine them changing the actual fucking gameplay

 

[gow3isben]

Every gen people talk about “diminishing returns” and every time I personally have seen just as big of an improvement each gen. To me God of War PS4 to God of War 3 is an even bigger leap then God of War 3 to God of War 2. The PS4 tech demo had been matched by recent exclusives as will the UE5 demo eventually, and that is a seismic leap. And just like last of us still held well against early PS4 titles but gets annihilated sometime mid gen, the same will happen with part 2. In the first couple of years of PS5, if a small, linear, cinematic showcase like The Order is released you people will have your jaws dropped.

 

[Astral Dog]

Playing ratchet and clank on current gen PS4:

Warp to world, kill 3 enemies.

3 minute loading screen.

Jump to world, rail grind for 10 seconds.

3 minute loading screen.

Warp to world, slide down a building

3 minute loading screen

"THIS IS SO FUN YOU GUYS."

No, this wouldn't work.

Yep they like to mock the Ratchet game but it would basically be 5-10 minutes load screen between each world on ps4 , and actually comparing them there is a night and day difference

 

[Stuart360]

Every gen people talk about “diminishing returns” and every time I personally have seen just as big of an improvement each gen. To me God of War PS4 to God of War 3 is an even bigger leap then God of War 3 to God of War 2. The PS4 tech demo had been matched by recent exclusives as will the UE5 demo eventually, and that is a seismic leap. And just like last of us still held well against early PS4 titles but gets annihilated sometime mid gen, the same will happen with part 2. In the first couple of years of PS5, if a small, linear, cinematic showcase like The Order is released you people will have your jaws dropped.

I think part of the problem is that the consoles this gen are already capable of high poly environments, assets and character, they are already capable of high resolution textures and effects. Its just getting harder and harder as time goes on to have something that looks a level better. We will probably never get a diference like say the PS2 GTA's, and then compare them to GTAV and realize that is one generation difference. Same with Red Dead vs Red Dead 2 to a lesser extent.
Ray tracing COULD be something that adds a huge boost to visuals, but imo the tech just isnt there yet to do ray tracing justice.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Imagine them changing the actual fucking gameplay

They have the best gameplay too

 

[Hunnybun]

I think part of the problem is that the consoles this gen are already capable of high poly environments, assets and character, they are already capable of high resolution textures and effects. Its just getting harder and harder as time goes on to have something that looks a level better. We will probably never get a diference like say the PS2 GTA's, and then compare them to GTAV and realize that is one generation difference. Same with Red Dead vs Red Dead 2 to a lesser extent.
Ray tracing COULD be something that adds a huge boost to visuals, but imo the tech just isnt there yet to do ray tracing justice.

Full path tracing feels like the final frontier, really.

It's an enormous leap in realism. You'd think we'd be about ready for that by the time the PS6 releases.

 

[kraspkibble]

maybe best wait until we can compare gameplay from both machines that hasn't been released by a marketing department.

Full path tracing feels like the final frontier, really.

It's an enormous leap in realism. You'd think we'd be about ready for that by the time the PS6 releases.

full on raytracing isn't happening any time soon.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yep they like to mock the Ratchet game but it would basically be 5-10 minutes load screen between each world on ps4 , and actually comparing them there is a night and day difference

You got me even more hyped for the PS5

 

[Hunnybun]

maybe best wait until we can compare gameplay from both machines that hasn't been released by a marketing department.


full on raytracing isn't happening any time soon.

Why are you LOLing at my post?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

That 8k screenshot looks amazing, what game is this?

 

[Hunnybun]

maybe best wait until we can compare gameplay from both machines that hasn't been released by a marketing department.


full on raytracing isn't happening any time soon.

Is 7 years soon?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Another cherrypicking

Ratchet and Clank looks like a big leap, Driveclub still looks better than most games geesh lol, and Horizon looks like a big leap

 

[Vasto]

No Microsoft is going cross gen because they need to service their games pass subscribers.

Then they would do it for more than 1 - 2 years.

 

[JohnSpartanLee]

GTA Online on PS4 in a full lobby drops to 10fps at times.

We won't have to put up with something like this on PS5.

 

[Hunnybun]

Then they would do it for more than 1 - 2 years.

It's a balance. They need a critical mass of their subs to move on to next gen, not all of them.

But that's why they're doing it.


Your reason, that they're just waiting for a couple of years until next gen games become more impressive, makes absolutely no sense.

 

[amigastar]

I think the generational leap will be very good all in all. We just have to wait a couple of years.
Imo the games at the end of this generation look already splendid.

 

[carsar]

Ratchet and Clank looks like a big leap, Driveclub still looks better than most games geesh lol, and Horizon looks like a big leap

a big leap from ps5<<<ps4

 

[Vasto]

It's a balance. They need a critical mass of their subs to move on to next gen, not all of them.

But that's why they're doing it.


Your reason, that they're just waiting for a couple of years until next gen games become more impressive, makes absolutely no sense.

Consoles never start to show their true power until a few years into their life cycle. That is when you will start getting the games that cant be done on the previous gen or if they are done on previous gen all you will hear people talk about is how bad it is that they should not have even tried.

I am not asking if my reason makes sense because its a fact. Not some downplaying theory about Game Pass subs.

 

[Krappadizzle]

GTA Online on PS4 in a full lobby drops to 10fps at times.

We won't have to put up with something like this on PS5.

 

[Hunnybun]

Consoles never start to show their true power until a few years into their life cycle. That is when you will start getting the games that cant be done on the previous gen or if they are done on previous gen all you will hear people talk about is how bad it is that they should not have even tried.

I am not asking if my reason makes sense because its a fact. Not some downplaying theory about Game Pass subs.

Why do you think games look better later on in a gen?

Because the developers have accrued more experience working with the machines. They can't just wait a couple of years and magically get more out of them, because somehow the consoles are maturing. That's not how it works.

I don't know what I'm 'downplaying' by saying they want to serve their subscriber base. It's just obvious. Games Pass is the be all and end all for Microsoft. It stands to reason they're going to be reluctant to reduce the value of that offering. It makes perfect sense as an explanation for why they're focused on a cross gen approach. Yours makes zero sense.

 

[Leyasu]

Playing ratchet and clank on current gen PS4:

Warp to world, kill 3 enemies.

3 minute loading screen.

Jump to world, rail grind for 10 seconds.

3 minute loading screen.

Warp to world, slide down a building

3 minute loading screen

"THIS IS SO FUN YOU GUYS."

No, this wouldn't work.

Yeah, I did forget about RC. The warps were the only thing not doable on a HDD.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Yet we had VFXVeteran claiming HFWs visuals weren't possible in real-time.

And he's an industry vet, he knows. /s

First off, I was asked about a particular screenshot and not a video. Anyone can make that assumption from a quick look.

Stop trolling my title and what I've done in the industry. It's becoming a real bother and it's very rude and patronizing. Your post has been reported.

 

[Psykodad]

First off, I was asked about a particular screenshot and not a video. Anyone can make that assumption from a quick look.

Stop trolling my title and what I've done in the industry. It's becoming a real bother and it's very rude and patronizing. Your post has been reported.

All screenshots came from the same video though.
Can't imagine you not being aware of that, seeing how invested you were with PS5 discussions.

 

[Vasto]

Why do you think games look better later on in a gen?

Because the developers have accrued more experience working with the machines. They can't just wait a couple of years and magically get more out of them, because somehow the consoles are maturing. That's not how it works.

I don't know what I'm 'downplaying' by saying they want to serve their subscriber base. It's just obvious. Games Pass is the be all and end all for Microsoft. It stands to reason they're going to be reluctant to reduce the value of that offering. It makes perfect sense as an explanation for why they're focused on a cross gen approach. Yours makes zero sense.

You just proved my point!

I never said they are waiting because they feel like it. All I said is that the true next gen games dont come until later in the gen. I know its because they have gotten more familiar with the hardware. Mine makes zero sense but you just said the same thing.

 

[Goro Majima]

I made this chart to show where, I feel, that games "visually" plateaued:

This is probably why I really don't have a problem going back to PS3/360 games in terms of graphics.

But since I like retro gaming I'm still pretty okay with many PS2/Xbox/GCN games also.

PS1/N64 is really super hit or miss to me though. Lots of atrocious early 3D going on.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

It's just a shame 30fps will still be the standard for most AAA games. Console only players are missing out on a great experience by not being able to play in 120+.

Watching my wife play LoU2 gives me eye strain at times causing of the low refresh rate.

 

[Fulcizombie]

The thing is that Horizon 2 does look much better than part one in scenes that resemble gameplay, the cutscenes comparison is not really important. Games like GT7 and spider man look so so on the ps5. R&C looks substantially better on the ps5, again cutscenes don’t tell the whole story. Some other games, like sackboy, could pass off as ps4 titles.

 

[Rikoi]

It's just a shame 30fps will still be the standard for most AAA games. Console only players are missing out on a great experience by not being able to play in 120+.

Watching my wife play LoU2 gives me eye strain at times causing of the low refresh rate.

The issue is that Frame rate doesn't sell, graphics does.
If you want games to have higher FPS (60-120), you need to lower graphics details a lot.

Now, when we look at a game trailer the first thing we notice are graphics, we can see in this same thread that most people are not really impressed by the generation leap regarding graphics.
What would they say if they know that games ran at 60 or even 120 fps but with PS4 graphics? Someone would like it, but the masses would still be disappointed.
The only solution to this would be to show the trailers at max graphics but make games have customizable graphic options to improve frame rates.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Check this out:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/in-c...rizon-zero-dawn-gifs-floating-around.1352893/

Honestly horizon 2 looks like a more polished version of horizon 1 and that's about it. Generational leap was not found that day. Also we have yet to see if those are actually ingame visuals or not just cutscene on top of it.

That's why I said HZD on PC will be similar in visual quality as HZ2 on PS5. I think folks just don't get that artistic talent can be put on any game, but the game's tech is another matter.

I agree with you. HZ2 looks like a good refinement from HZ1 with the typical rendering features that was absent on the PS4 (i.e. better anisotropic filtering, higher resolution, higher texture sizes, more accurate ambient occlusion, more tesselation, etc..), but found in every PC game last gen.

 

[Hunnybun]

You just proved my point!

I never said they are waiting because they feel like it. All I said is that the true next gen games dont come until later in the gen. I know its because they have gotten more familiar with the hardware. Mine makes zero sense but you just said the same thing.

You literally said: "I already know it will take a few years before the true next gen games start coming. This is why Microsoft is going cross gen for 1 or 2 years."

What did you mean by 'this is why Microsoft is going cross gen for 1 or 2 years'?

 

[VFXVeteran]

btw when you see the next ND game I am pretty sure you will change your mind.

Why does the next ND game have to be a basis for when we'll see "true" next-gen as you put it? Why can't a 3rd party company do the exact same thing? You guys need to get out of the headspace that only PS exclusive companies can push visuals. You've literally been so engrossed in that, that you make yourself believe it to ALWAYS be true no matter what. It's to the point that when you compare screenshots, all you do is capture a moment in time and say "Look at this!! This game looks better than anything out there!" without having any basis in fact other than a picture. You have an automatic bias towards any 1st party company because you have convinced yourself that no other company can do better. That's called brainwashed just for the sake of wanting your favorite star to be #1 all the time.

 

[Arkam]

Why does the next ND game have to be a basis for when we'll see "true" next-gen as you put it? Why can't a 3rd party company do the exact same thing? You guys need to get out of the headspace that only PS exclusive companies can push visuals. You've literally been so engrossed in that, that you make yourself believe it to ALWAYS be true no matter what. It's to the point that when you compare screenshots, all you do is capture a moment in time and say "Look at this!! This game looks better than anything out there!" without having any basis in fact other than a picture. You have an automatic bias towards any 1st party company because you have convinced yourself that no other company can do better. That's called brainwashed just for the sake of wanting your favorite star to be #1 all the time.

Would you disagree that on the PS4, that first party were some of the most visually impressive games on the console. If you do disagree, what do you feel were the most impressive games on the PS4?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Would you disagree that on the PS4, that first party were some of the most visually impressive games on the console. If you do disagree, what do you feel were the most impressive games on the PS4?

Visually impressive is very subjective. When people talk about the PS4 exclusives, they get that intertwined with technology - which is completely inaccurate and biased. The PS4 had no technological advantages over any other console or PC. It had companies that have a very good artistic talented team, directors, and tech that could realize their vision. I found HZD to be pretty but had several technical flaws that distracted my personal experience. Those flaws are literally found in most games except near the end of the generation when ray-tracing started to take hold. The best visuals last gen for the PS4 was The Order for me. It had the best use of shaders I've seen at that time. Later on, there were games that used materials to excellent use but didn't have the shortcomings of the hardware in the PS4.