http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-20178356
For further info, wiki page on Boko Haram:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram
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Nigerian 'youths executed' in Boko Haram stronghold
- Thread starter Kabouter
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For further info, wiki page on Boko Haram:
Meus Renaissance
Member
This type of violence, often indiscriminate revenge killings, have been happening for many years but seems to have escalated over the past 12 months.
Is the article suggesting Boko Haram were responsible for the deaths of the Imam's sons?
Is the article suggesting Boko Haram were responsible for the deaths of the Imam's sons?
Uhm, has been there since 9th century during the Kanem-Bornu Empire (Thanks Wiki!).
Also the last civil war in Nigeria was fucking nasty so no thanks!
Moral Panic
Member
Split the country in half. Never should've been one country in the first place, different ethnicities, languages and culture.
It's a really sad situation down there. On one hand, you have atrocities being commited by the military against local islamic populace and on the other you have islamic militia bombing churches during service hours etc etc. No one wants to have any sort of negation due to the years and years of tension between christians and muslims. Heart wrenching.
I read it as being the military that killed the Imam's sons.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Well Boko Haram are civilians when they don't have guns on them, its really difficult to tell who is and who isn't Boko haram. Just like the Taliban they blend into society and only come out when they want to kill. We can't say for sure whether those killed where Boko Haram or not.
No, the military went door to door, took people, separated them using pictures they had and shot dozens.
Civilians really seem caught between Scylla and Charybdis there :/.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
The states can impose sharia law if they want and since all states in the north are muslim most of them have imposed sharia law (although not to the degree that BH wants). The Sharia law in the states however do not apply if you were not born in the state and if you were born in the state and you move to another state that does not have sharia law obviously you do not have to abide the Sharia law.
The last Civil war Nigeria fought was deadly imagine now that there are 170 million people in the country, yeah No.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't know what the fuck am I reading.
Just to be clear, based on this article, it was the military hunting the islamist militants that rounded up these youths and executed them.
Does sound like a really bad situation all around.
Canis lupus
Member
This is so sad. 
You sound exactly like the Islamist terrorists with the "retake the north" comment. Except they would probably like to "take the south". Stop posting ignorant and stupid posts, rethink next time before you press the post reply button.
I hope they were at least guilty militant islamists and not random youth in an islamic neighbourhood. If they were Boko Haram for sure, then at least it's a more discriminate way to kill them than the drone bombing in Pakistan..
Yeah, except Islamist terrorists are not people you want to be governed by. It's not like diplomacy is a viable option when negotiating with extremists.
Yeah, except Islamist terrorists are not people you want to be governed by. It's not like diplomacy is a viable option when negotiating with extremists.
I don't think I would want to be governed by a regime that starts a civil war to remove an entire religion from the country either, rather than just attempting to fight its extreme elements.
The rich and educated Christian south is completely at odds with the poor and uneducated Muslim North. If the country splits, then the civil war would be very messy and painful, and Boko Haram will not stop trying to impose Sharia Law on the entire region. Their entire goal is to enforce Sharia Law on the whole of Nigeria, not just the North. They will continue to expand their operations and destabilise the entire region. The status quo at the moment is preferable to a civil war, and as long as the oil keeps running and Boko Haram don't upset the West, then the powers that be will not really care.
In the next decade I can easily see US drone strikes becoming a common occurrence there, and Nigeria will have to adapt and fight a messy Guerrilla war with Boko Haram. That's going to be the nature of 21st century warfare.
In the next decade I can easily see US drone strikes becoming a common occurrence there, and Nigeria will have to adapt and fight a messy Guerrilla war with Boko Haram. That's going to be the nature of 21st century warfare.
BruiserBear
Banned
What a tragedy. No matter where you go, no matter what culture you look at...someone is being killed for stupid reasons
Stupidity seems to be very common trait on this planet.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
Most Nigerians I've met have been Christians, and very devout Christians, to the point that I've found some of their views a bit scary. I can only imagine a full scale sectarian/religious conflict across Nigeria would be terrifying.
The Islamists found a foot hold in poor angry citizens and are actively seeking both political power and expansion into Nigeria. Generally I would't support a war, and I guess I was too blunt with my words last time. They need to play this one like the Untouchables. Take out the terrorists, don't play footsie with them.
They've been there for a long time dude, ones of the extreme variety as well. All summer I was hearing about churches being bombed by extremists.
Nigeria was ln a long civil war that ended in 99. I doubt anyone wants to go back to that
TheContact
Member
I don't believe in executions like that but I have a hard time sympathizing with terrorists
I guess it depends on what you mean by long time. Islam in Africa will always be present in some form, if at least in the background. But Nigeria was once officially a Christian nation, and any Islamic worship would have certainly been suppressed. They have not had to contend with Islam as a source of competition for rule over Nigeria, that's a more recent development. Too much fighting within the top levels of Nigerian power left a hole for militant Islam to just stroll in across the border.
I somehow doubt they'll be able to come to an accord with these people. I'd give them the option to surrender peacefully, or leave the country and then I'd go in with massive shock and awe.
OttomanScribe
Member
Akira, really, go read a book, then come back and post once you are feeling sensible. I'm rarely this dismissive but for real.
I think Boko Haraam are interesting, their name points towards an interesting side product of Maliki understandings of 'bidaah'. There is an out of the ordinary primitivist trend in the non-Arab forms of African Islam that has been present in a number of movements from Sudan across in a belt to Mauritania. It certainly isn't dominant, and the destruction of 'Sufi' symbols by BH represent a more modernist, literalist, Salafi puritan kind of strain as well.
The above is a tragic product of the civil war there. So many people stuck in the middle. More broadly there is a long standing conflict in Nigeria between pasturalist Muslim groups and settled Christians, but it is far more about the resources than anything else (as always). BH on the other hand don't necessarily represent this trend, primarily because many of those they are targeting are fellow Muslims.
I think Boko Haraam are interesting, their name points towards an interesting side product of Maliki understandings of 'bidaah'. There is an out of the ordinary primitivist trend in the non-Arab forms of African Islam that has been present in a number of movements from Sudan across in a belt to Mauritania. It certainly isn't dominant, and the destruction of 'Sufi' symbols by BH represent a more modernist, literalist, Salafi puritan kind of strain as well.
The above is a tragic product of the civil war there. So many people stuck in the middle. More broadly there is a long standing conflict in Nigeria between pasturalist Muslim groups and settled Christians, but it is far more about the resources than anything else (as always). BH on the other hand don't necessarily represent this trend, primarily because many of those they are targeting are fellow Muslims.
Ottoman, i've read books...and I think I'm feeling quite sensible. Sure it's early/late. You don't agree, ok, I get that. I don't understand why people keep saying what I suggest is ridiculous, or that I'm an idiot or something. Yes, they have had issues. Yes they've been getting played by their allies. I mean it's complicated, their failed attempts and democracy, how they lost so many seats and then had those seats taken up by Islamic supporters, etc. I mean, it's fucked in many different kinds of ways. So, your suggestion is they just split the country in two like Sudan?
Yeah shit sucks, but what do they DO about it? I don't think more evaluating the situation and finding it less than optimal is really going to help.
Yeah shit sucks, but what do they DO about it? I don't think more evaluating the situation and finding it less than optimal is really going to help.
OttomanScribe
Member
First you attempt to assert that Islam is something new in Nigeria (when Muslims arguably make up a majority).
Then you argue that the solution to Boko Haraam is harsher than what is currently being used (extra judicial executions generally being understood as relatively harsh) as you think that the measures mentioned are insufficient.
Then you say that Nigeria was 'once an official Christian nation', certainly an odd statement, one that seems to indicate a fundamental lack of understanding of the history of the region.
Then you advocate driving out Muslims with 'shock and awe', an unspecific term with, and forgive the assumption, genocidal implications.
What part of the above am I meant to take seriously? What part is going to lead me to think that you have read on the subject?
Well said, I couldn't have said it any better. I was going to respond to his post, but you made things easier for me and made me spare some of my time.
Don't blame Islam for this, or do you decide not to hear about young girls being burned for witchcraft? Isn't that what christian fundamentalists did in medieval ages?
Islam as a political power player in post-colonial Nigeria is a relatively new thing. New to me anyway. I never said Islam didn't exist in Nigeria, especially since there was a huge Islamic explosion that certainly would have reached Nigeria. Apparently a lot of people assumed that was what I meant, and I missed that.
Yes I think they need to do more than shoot the few people they manage to capture. Perhaps they could get the Americans to help them with a drone program.
I can't remember where I read that Nigeria was a Christian nation, so I might be wrong in that assertion. Perhaps I went a little far there.
Shock and Awe meaning psychological and conventional warfare in massive amounts to destabilize the populace and immediately interrupt whatever militant-Islam organization might be hiding up North. Less video taping and more exploding of suspected hideouts and warehouses.
And I believe I said the Islamists were the enemy, not muslims in general.
And finally, I never once claimed to have read any books on the subject.
I'm not blaming "Islam" for anything. I am blaming the militant-Islamists for being violent terrorists though. I don't know what you mean with the second part. I will be hitting F5 though, so I expect I'll find out.
edit: oh, yeah I'd totally take it to the Christians for the witch hunting stuff. They wouldn't want to see me, I assure you. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer.
Yes I think they need to do more than shoot the few people they manage to capture. Perhaps they could get the Americans to help them with a drone program.
I can't remember where I read that Nigeria was a Christian nation, so I might be wrong in that assertion. Perhaps I went a little far there.
Shock and Awe meaning psychological and conventional warfare in massive amounts to destabilize the populace and immediately interrupt whatever militant-Islam organization might be hiding up North. Less video taping and more exploding of suspected hideouts and warehouses.
And I believe I said the Islamists were the enemy, not muslims in general.
And finally, I never once claimed to have read any books on the subject.
I'm not blaming "Islam" for anything. I am blaming the militant-Islamists for being violent terrorists though. I don't know what you mean with the second part. I will be hitting F5 though, so I expect I'll find out.
edit: oh, yeah I'd totally take it to the Christians for the witch hunting stuff. They wouldn't want to see me, I assure you. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer.
Well... you know most of us weren't alive 600 years ago.
What? Girls being burned is very real and happens a lot in Africa.
Also Albino people are killed to make charms.
I... I know, but you mentioned "Isn't that what christian fundamentalists did in medieval ages".
What? The Nigerian Civil War was from 1967 to 1970.
OttomanScribe
Member
A few points, the first being that this was not something any reasonable person could assume about your post. You made no distinction in your bizarre assertion about the civil war you desired.
As to 'Islam' not being a 'political power player' in Nigeria.. well, it isn't, but only in the sense that 'Islam' isn't the name of some dude that involves himself in politics. Otherwise, Islam as both a foundation for identity politics and a system of law etc. has been involved in Nigeria since before colonial times.
So you are supporting extra judicial executions, but think that drone assassinations would also be a nice touch?
Yes you did.
Ah, that will improve the situation, blow up anywhere that looks suspicious. That is not only morally abhorrent, but counter to most understandings of counter insurgency tactics that I have read, beyond bizarre scorched earth fantasies.
Well with the tactics you have in mind, of a massive civil war to drive the Muslims out, I think that distinction will rapidly disappear.
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