Ninja Gaiden II: The Official GAF Thread of Chaos

Oh great, a boss rush. How can Itagaki criticize his competition when he's guilty of making some of the same questionable design choices? I'll admit the context of the rematches (as described by a Master Ninja--thanks) sounds interesting, and since level select is apparently in I suppose they will be a convenient way to practice boss battles without having to play through an entire stage every time, but these are the nicest things I can force myself to say about this. I really, really hoped NG2's length wouldn't be artificially increased in such a stale manner. Bugger.
 
Ninja99 said:
Oh great, a boss rush. How can Itagaki criticize his competition when he's guilty of making some of the same questionable design choices? I'll admit the context of the rematches (as described by a Master Ninja--thanks) sounds interesting, and since level select is apparently in I suppose they will be a convenient way to practice boss battles without having to play through an entire stage every time, but these are the nicest things I can force myself to say about this. I really, really hoped NG2's length wouldn't be artificially increased in such a stale manner. Bugger.
I don't understand this qualm. At the most how much longer do you expect this boss rush to extend the game? I went through DMC4's boss rush in like 30 mins.

I really doubt artifically extending the length had anything to do with it. I personally love boss rushes because you can truly see how powerful you've become by the end of the game.
 
Correction:

There is a ninja fence, but it's made up of 5 foot long swords wrapped in barbed wire. It's only practical use is to be picked up and swung wildly to chop 2-story-tall spider demons in half.
 
Ninja99 said:
Oh great, a boss rush. How can Itagaki criticize his competition when he's guilty of making some of the same questionable design choices?
because he's the motherfucking man.

OnBackOrder said:
I don't understand this qualm. At the most how much longer do you expect this boss rush to extend the game? I went through DMC4's boss rush in like 30 mins.

I really doubt artifically extending the length had anything to do with it. I personally love boss rushes because you can truly see how powerful you've become by the end of the game.
i dislike boss rushes but to complain like it is honestly adding a great deal of length to the game is pretty lame
 
OnBackOrder said:
I don't understand this qualm. At the most how much longer do you expect this boss rush to extend the game? I went through DMC4's boss rush in like 30 mins.
It's an assumption I made. Why else tack on a stretch of repetitive gameplay right at the end of the game? I can think of no good reason.

I really doubt artifically extending the length had anything to do with it. I personally love boss rushes because you can truly see how powerful you've become by the end of the game.
That's what new game+ is for. I like to be able to choose when I challenge an overpowered monster to a rematch. When such battles are forced on me along the course of a normal playthrough the title's replay value is diminished. This is especially true for Ninja Gaiden. In this game I find encounters with normal enemies to be infinitely more enjoyable than boss fights. Why not have a separate boss rush mode that players can enjoy or ignore as they please rather than making it a mandatory part of the experience?
 
Boss rush is classic game design.

It's not artificial.

It's pure.

An action game tests your skill. The enemies are what you practice on. And then bosses are where you demonstrate your mastery from that practice. The boss rush is the ultimate demonstration of skill.

Mighty enemies, each a dangerous, controller throwing tough obstacle the first time you met them. Now nothing more than minor inconveniences on your path to the ultimate showdown.

This is the old way, the way of your ancestors. Don't shame them with your complaints.

Do you think these bosses care a whit of your complaints. They are harmless against them. They only thing they understand is quick fingers and quick eyes and the brutal purpose of a man who's got 25 cents on the line.
 
Hey at least Team Ninja isn't making you play a board-game.

Besides, the last time you fought the boss you probably burned through a dozen life potions and many retries. Why not take him out the next time with barely a sweat?
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
Besides, the last time you fought the boss you probably burned through a dozen life potions and many retries. Why not take him out the next time with barely a sweat?
Seriously, I've never heard anyone complain about boss rushes in action games until this thread.
 
PepsimanVsJoe said:
Hey at least Team Ninja isn't making you play a board-game.

Besides, the last time you fought the boss you probably burned through a dozen life potions and many retries. Why not take him out the next time with barely a sweat?
Seriously. Wtf Capcom at the dice game. Anyway boss rushes are always nice when you can slice through them with no trouble at all after having upgraded your inventory.
 
Teknoman said:
Seriously. Wtf Capcom at the dice game. Anyway boss rushes are always nice when you can slice through them with no trouble at all after having upgraded your inventory.
If you memorized the pattern of the dice you could actually manipulate it very easily. It always landed on a specific side based on what was facing up when you hit it (I think it landed on the same side, but it could have been a different side...i know it was predictable though).

That being said, it was still annoying. Fighting a string of old bosses is not a design decision that's ever bothered me in action games though so I doubt it will here.
 
Beezy said:
Seriously, I've never heard anyone complain about boss rushes in action games until this thread.
Because most action games don't have boss rushes.

While DMC4 was definitely on that fine line, I'm not really bothered by it. There's nothing very positive or negative about it imo, its just something that I deal with.
 
WHOAguitarninja said:
If you memorized the pattern of the dice you could actually manipulate it very easily. It always landed on a specific side based on what was facing up when you hit it (I think it landed on the same side, but it could have been a different side...i know it was predictable though).

That being said, it was still annoying. Fighting a string of old bosses is not a design decision that's ever bothered me in action games though so I doubt it will here.
Its not that it took me forever to get through (usually hit bonuses), its just I didnt see a point to it.
 
Draft said:
Boss rush is classic game design.

It's not artificial.

It's pure.
Classic game design was largely a product of technical limitations that no longer exist. Blindly emulating it isn't laudable in and of itself. Don't pretend that it is to justify your personal preferences.

An action game tests your skill. The enemies are what you practice on. And then bosses are where you demonstrate your mastery from that practice. The boss rush is the ultimate demonstration of skill.
Bullshit. Normal battles are where the true depth of a game's combat is revealed. This is true for virtually every major action title released in the previous console generation, from Devil May Cry to God of War to Ninja Gaiden. In boss battles you are almost always forced to play by a different set of rules. Bosses usually have different properties and behaviors than normal enemies, so they must be fought differently. There tends to be a lot of pattern memorization involved, and less room for creativity than ordinary battles offer. There's a reason all the best combo exhibitions mainly, often exclusively, feature fights against standard enemies. Must I provide examples?

Mighty enemies, each a dangerous, controller throwing tough obstacle the first time you met them. Now nothing more than minor inconveniences on your path to the ultimate showdown.

This is the old way, the way of your ancestors. Don't shame them with your complaints.

Do you think these bosses care a whit of your complaints. They are harmless against them. They only thing they understand is quick fingers and quick eyes and the brutal purpose of a man who's got 25 cents on the line.
Instead of indulging in fruitless prattle, why don't you explain to me why it's such a bad idea to have a standalone boss rush mode, as I suggested previously? From a purely practical standpoint there's really no downside. It would give players better control over their gameplay experience--replay value would be increased that much more as a result. In fact, this entire disagreement would be moot because both of us would be able to play the game exactly how we want to.
 
God the Ninja Gaiden defense force is hilarious:

-Who needs a story in their game?!?!

-Camera? Who cares if the camera sucks?!!?

-Bad review, Reviewer must be terrible at action games!

-Retarded Game Design choice? Label it as a classic!

Seriously I am still excited for the game and im sure it'll be good but theres no need to defend every bad aspect of it.
 
boss rushes can be good or bad, the bad way to do a boss rush is to force you to fight every single boss in the entire game all at once without checkpoints- see viewtiful joe for this. The good way is something closer to megaman, you have to fight 'em all but you get some health in between atleast. Also, seeing as only critics have played the game so far, how do we know for certain that the NG2 boss rush doesn't change up the bosses attack patterns or give them different textures, whatnot ? We don't.

So can everyone just calm down , we have hopefully only a day or 2 until we can have a playable demo and only a few days until the full game is out.
 
Spruchy said:
God the Ninja Gaiden defense force is hilarious:

-Who needs a story in their game?!?!

-Camera? Who cares if the camera sucks?!!?

-Bad review, Reviewer must be terrible at action games!

-Retarded Game Design choice? Label it as a classic!

Seriously I am still excited for the game and im sure it'll be good but theres no need to defend every bad aspect of it.


"Let's see you type something like that without any fingers."
 
Spruchy said:
God the Ninja Gaiden defense force is hilarious:

-Who needs a story in their game?!?!

-Camera? Who cares if the camera sucks?!!?

-Bad review, Reviewer must be terrible at action games!

-Retarded Game Design choice? Label it as a classic!

Seriously I am still excited for the game and im sure it'll be good but theres no need to defend every bad aspect of it.

Differing opinions and tastes?

Since when are reviews gospel? A reviewer can be flat out wrong just like anyone else.

I think the story and camera are fine. Didn't have a problem with either in the first NG. Boss Rush being "retarded" is an opinion. I for one wouldn't have it any other way :D
 
Spruchy said:
God the Ninja Gaiden defense force is hilarious:

-Who needs a story in their game?!?!

-Camera? Who cares if the camera sucks?!!?

-Bad review, Reviewer must be terrible at action games!

-Retarded Game Design choice? Label it as a classic!

Seriously I am still excited for the game and im sure it'll be good but theres no need to defend every bad aspect of it.
Agreed.

Just because a reviewer isn't a hardcore Ninja Gaiden player doesn't mean that he can't spot a shitty camera or bad design choices.
 
It's past 2am now and still no demo goddammit. Has anyone with a JP account been able to check and see if it's up there?

Or maybe Itagaki was being straight after all and the demo will launch day and date with the game. :/

Oh well, not too long of a wait either way.
 
For those who are in Europe and wish to download the demo. Just redeem the 1 month Xbox Live Gold trial you got free with GTAIV on the Japan marketplace. I just did that and it worked - downloading the demo now, 13% :D
 
lemmykoopa said:
For those who are in Europe and wish to download the demo. Just redeem the 1 month Xbox Live Gold trial you got free with GTAIV on the Japan marketplace. I just did that and it worked - downloading the demo now, 13% :D

I'm on it :]
 
Classic game design was largely a product of technical limitations that no longer exist.
Some of it, sure. Boss rushes? Please prove it.

There's a reason all the best combo exhibitions mainly, often exclusively, feature fights against standard enemies. Must I provide examples?
Combo exhibitions are now representative of normal play? Hell, they're something that showcases good design?

I couldn't disagree more about normal combat versus bosses. Devil May Cry 3 was one hell of a dull game outside of the fantastic bosses, assuming you were more interested in learning and fighting against an enemy (or set of enemies) than discovering and experimenting with combos. Ninja Gaiden wasn't that bad, but the boss battles were head and shoulders above the throwaway enemies.

Of all the ways a developer could pad out a game in the name of length, boss rushes are pretty far down the list. How could you look at it as anything but a brief recap?
 
Be sure to switch weapons! Looks like they gave us more than just the dragon sword (im using the claws at the moment) and it's fucking awesome and bloody and beautiful. It's the first level BlimBlim.

Weapons: Dragon Sword, The Claws and the Scythe.

EDIT: Also, seems like the claws share the same combos as the dragon sword.
 
Spruchy said:
God the Ninja Gaiden defense force is hilarious:

-Who needs a story in their game?!?!

-Camera? Who cares if the camera sucks?!!?

-Bad review, Reviewer must be terrible at action games!

-Retarded Game Design choice? Label it as a classic!

Seriously I am still excited for the game and im sure it'll be good but theres no need to defend every bad aspect of it.
NG threads on GAF have more damage control then Volvo crash test facility.
 
demo is AWESOME!

its so fast, so beautiful, so bloody...

must play MORE

AND: you can set the aspect ratio to 16:9, even if you have a 4:3 tv (you have letterboxes, but see everything).