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[Kinsei]

WHY ISN'T IT GODDESS OF WAR GODDESSDAMMIT?????

Kratos is an actual character though. Link is a blank slate in every game where he's playable.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Link does go through character arcs and you can tell what they are thinking based on how they react to situations.

Take Wind Waker for example. Link starts as a lazy islander who reluctantly sets out with pirates to rescue his kidnapped sister. He's not very courageous and shows a lot of fear; moving forward because of family love. Over a long journey he builds up his courage and finally rescues his sister; and in a turning point for his character he continues onward beyond his personal quest and decides to be the hero of the world. He fails. This Link has no connection to the Hero of Time. He isn't born with the triforce or a mark of destiny. Unlike other heroes he has to earn his status as the hero and become acknowledged by the gods. The Link that defeats Ganon is very different from the lazy islander he started as.

I've played through Wind Waker. He's shown to be dozing off for one scene but nothing about that game would imply he's lazy.

Nothing is reluctant about him leaving. One sad wave good bye to grandma isn't reluctance.

What courage is he building again? Does he look fearful trying to go meet Valoo or save Komali? Or any of the other ridiculous tasks that you have to do? To be courageous you have overcome fear. Like if he had tried refusing every time or complained about all of the stuff you're asked to do, you'd have a point.

I like Wind Waker Link. I think he is the closest that Link has ever been to a fleshed out character but this is still stretching beyond what's there.

 

[Bulzeeb]

why does everybody wants a female link? for me Link is his own character, if they wanted to let you use a female character they could have made some other characters playable, heck I would like to have more of Impa, so far, she is my favorite character in HW

 

[Mango The Magician]

You can name him BUTTMAN if you want to, come on. Zelda has always straddled the line between a vaguely established character and light player customization.

Sure you can name him, but not in the FS games or HW, and no one seemed to notice or care which is pretty telling as to how much that feature really matters.

why does everybody wants a female link? for me Link is his own character, for me, if they wanted to let you use a female character they could have made some other characters playable, heck I would like to have more of Impa, so far, she is my favorite character in HW

Because he reincarnates or whatever, ignoring though that even if he does he's still stayed basically the same in everything from looks to his voice. So it's brand vs lore.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I could've really, really sworn that that's exactly what Link is supposed to be. I dunno.

That's what he started out as, but over time they started giving him his own personality, backstories, relatives, romance implications etc. Which is why I wish that they would fully commit and finally give him dialogue.

 

[Red Devil]

this thread is a bunch of nonsense.
it's this stupid politically correctness gone mad, and everyone's just arguing for the sake of arguing. what rubbish.
the 3 heroes in this game are male because they're male. that's it.

there's no hidden meaning in it. nintendo aren't trying to make any political statements with it. they don't have anything against females in their company. there's no hidden agenda here. it's a non-issue.
the 3 characters are simply male, because they are, and nintendo didn't think there would be any issue with it… because really, there is no issue with it.
just a bunch of bored idiots making a mountain out of a molehill.

there are multiple games nintendo has made that feature strong lead female characters.
and the best thing about the scenarios when nintendo creates strong female characters is that it isn't done as some sort of response to real world politics or in order to address some gender equality issue… it's done simply because they wanted to make another lead female character in their game and it suited it.

which imo is a much better ethos than seeing a bunch of studios & publishers stumbling over each other trying to create female 'leads' in order to appear politically correct & appeal to some real-world political movement. imo that's more dishonest & pandering, because the intention to create a female lead isn't from genuine desire to create it, period… it's a 'pop-culture' knee-jerk reaction for the purposes of marketing and being able to be seen as 'progressive'.

You're right, even if their response was crappy and not sure why it's even a question.

People should demand Nintendo to come up with new IPs that have female leads.

 

[JackelZXA]

The story calls for this sort of legend/prophecy where heroes will come together to help solve a problem. And in that, they are male characters. So, because the game is set with that as the story background, you cannot choose a gender; you are a male character.

That rubs me the wrong way. Why would only men answer the call? Even Twilight Princess has a female knight. It seems like a weak justification (especially since it isn't just link split into 3). I get wanting to have that character, but the reasoning here sounds like "only men would be heroes" or something. I don't like it. It sounds weird and makes me uncomfortable the way it's phrased.

 

[SweetDonuts]

I'm surprised this is even an issue with a game like this, is every future zelda going to be plagued with "why no female lead?!". Can't people think of other ways to be progressive without having to change the gender of a well established character?.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Kratos is an actual character though. Link is a blank slate in every game where he's playable.

He's a blank male slate though, don't let the developers tell you differently.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Kratos is an actual character though. Link is a blank slate in every game where he's playable.

Well...

But anyway, even if Link has more personality in the Wind Waker than Kratos did in any of his games, and even if for some reason we assumed that it's a natural law of the universe that Link could only be a guy... Only one of the three playable characters in this game is Link! Making a four swords game without each character being Link seems like a design decision that they'd only make because it creates the opportunity for a female character haha

 

[QueenOfThorns]

What's up with all the social justice warriors? What does it matter if you can't play as a girl? It doesn't mean that the creators imply that women can't be heroes. Does Tomb Raider and Metroid imply that only women can be heroes? Don't you think that calling a developer sexist because of one game is extremely shallow? What do you know about those individuals? It's weird really. Why would you look down on people like that?

We're calling a developer sexist because of one game? More like 100. Can you not see the pattern with how common male heroes are compared to the amount of games that have women heroes?

But sure. What's up with the damn SJWs.

 

[Kinsei]

That's what he started out as, but over time they started giving him his own personality, backstories, relatives, romance implications etc.

Backstories? You mean basic non descript stuff like being a descendant of so and so, being an orphan, and having a childhood friend? Realtives? Last I checked you can have relatives in CaC games. Romance? Sure, but that's not gender specific. Even Pokemon does romance implications.

 

[plagiarize]

I've played through Wind Waker. He's shown to be dozing off for one scene but nothing about that game would imply he's lazy.

Nothing is reluctant about him leaving. One sad wave good bye to grandma isn't reluctance.

What courage is he building again? Does he look fearful trying to go meet Valoo or save Komali? Or any of the other ridiculous tasks that you have to do? To be courageous you have overcome fear. Like if he had tried refusing every time or complained about all of the stuff you're asked to do, you'd have a point.

I like Wind Waker Link. I think he is the closest that Link has ever been to a fleshed out character but this is still stretching beyond what's there.

Link in Wind Waker *regularly* emotes fear towards the enemies he faces. He also emotes annoyance at the stuff grandma wants him to do doesn't he? He's reluctant to even wear the hero outfit and go through that nonsense. He doesn't leave because he wanted to go off on adventures. He leaves because a giant bird took his sister and he's going to do everything he can to get her back, even if it means leaving the tiny island he has spent his entire life on for the first time.

 

[-Horizon-]

I didn't even consider asking for female Link in this one. All I saw was clothing customization. Didn't really think anything else of the game.

 

[mStudios]

The three heroes are males, becasue they're male. That's it. No explanation needed.

No everything needs an explanation, no every game needs a gender selector.

 

[Morts]

The argument about whether Link could ever be female seems to be missing the point of how tone-deaf Nintendo's response in the OP is. "The women on the team don't mind" is damn near "but I have a black friend".

I don't think Nintendo is trying to say anything about female heroes with this game or even their dumb answer to the question. I think you play as three dudes in this game because they didn't think about it at all, which is damning in itself. Male by default is very weird when you stop to consider it.

 

[Tabris]

Japan just isn't progressive on gender equality. I remember when I was in Japan with my girl, even though I didn't speak barely any Japanese and she was totally fluent, a lot of servers at restaurants would only address me.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Asking contrived questions just to ask them is a transparent and really bad thing.

No, not for this game but when does it end???

I'll agree with you in this specific case (with the first paragraph), as the person asking it clearly doesn't seem genuine about it.

But in general, I don't see why asking questions needs to end at any point. Even if there was equal representation of both genders, I'd still appreciate questions like "why did you end up on this choise" and "why not this other choice" and stuff like that. Then the developer would simply answer.

My man.
If Nintendo don't want female Link it's ok, it's their vision. And I'm ok with that, personally I don't want to play as a female Link.

But the question here isn't why Link isn't female. I mean, that's what some people are debating about, but it's not related to this game, as Link isn't in multiplayer.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I didn't even consider asking for female Link in this one. All I saw was clothing customization. Didn't really think anything else of the game.

The game should be called TriForce Fabulous.

 

[plagiarize]

Because he reincarnates or whatever, ignoring though that even if he does he's still stayed basically the same in everything from looks to his voice. So it's brand vs lore.

Except implicitly in this game, and in Wind Waker. So no, 'Link' isn't always a reincarnation.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Link in Wind Waker *regularly* emotes fear towards the enemies he faces. He also emotes annoyance at the stuff grandma wants him to do doesn't he? He's reluctant to even wear the hero outfit and go through that nonsense. He doesn't leave because he wanted to go off on adventures. He leaves because a giant bird took his sister and he's going to do everything he can to get her back, even if it means leaving the tiny island he has spent his entire life on for the first time.

Definitely! That's part of what made Wind Waker so great. The important thing here is that none of those characteristics could be exemplified by a female character, and it's not like each Link is a different person.

Backstories? You mean basic non descript stuff like being a descendant of so and so, being an orphan, and having a childhood friend? Realtives? Last I checked you can have relatives in CaC games. Romance? Sure, but that's not gender specific. Even Pokemon does romance implications.

I guess he could be going for the whole "all of the main characters are reincarnations" thing?

 

[Undubbed]

I'm surprised this is even an issue with a game like this, is every future zelda going to be plagued with "why no female lead?!". Can't people think of other ways to be progressive without having to change the gender of a well established character?.

Link isn't a character so much as he's a template in this series. I don't think modifying a template parameter to female would do much, lore-wise.

 

[SkeptiMism]

You're right, even if their response was crappy and not sure why it's even a question.

People should demand Nintendo to come up with new IPs that have female leads.

I'm surprised this is even an issue with a game like this, is every future zelda going to be plagued with "why no female lead?!". Can't people think of other ways to be progressive without having to change the gender of a well established character?.

Again, this thread isn't about asking Link to be female.

Link isn't in multiplayer. The characters used in the multiplayer are random heroes.

Link is only in the single player.

The three heroes are males, becasue they're male. That's it. No explanation needed.

No everything needs an explanation, no every game needs a gender selector.

Not everything necessarily needs an explanation, but there's no such thing that could not be asked about. If people ask questions, it's good to answer.

And this answer was ridiculous.

 

[Kinsei]

Definitely! That's part of what made Wind Waker so great. The important thing here is that none of those characteristics could be exemplified by a female character, and it's not like each Link is a different person.


I guess he could be going for the whole "all of the main characters are reincarnations" thing?

Wind Waker throws a wrench into that seeing as the game specifically states that WW Link is not a reincarnation of the hero.

 

[Entryhazard]

We're calling a developer sexist because of one game? More like 100. Can you not see the pattern with how common male heroes are compared to the amount of games that have women heroes?

But sure. What's up with the damn SJWs.

Has it really something to do with Nintendo? They have female leads since the 80s (Metroid), not mentioning other games that have female playable characters (3/4 of Hyrule Warriors' cast, Paper Mario, 3D world and others)

 

[Beelzebufo]

The three heroes are males, becasue they're male. That's it. No explanation needed.

No everything needs an explanation, no every game needs a gender selector.

This is true. It's not Nintendo's fault, this is they way the story happened. Changing their genders would ruin the historical accuracy of the game.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Backstories? You mean basic non descript stuff like being a descendant of so and so, being an orphan, and having a childhood friend? Realtives? Last I checked you can have relatives in CaC games. Romance? Sure, but that's not gender specific. Even Pokemon does romance implications.

More like being lazy and sleeping all the time. Ridiculous kindness, even the option to be competitive via dialogue options. And yes, even those things you said make it so that he's not a blank slate, the dude from the very first game was a blank slate. We knew absolutely nothing about him besides the fact that was a warrior. And I'd feel that like with DA2, the romance would feel cheap if every romance option was bi. I just don't agree with the blank slate thing. Link may not be a super divisive original hero, but he's certainly not *nothing.*

 

[Beelzebufo]

Wind Waker throws a wrench into that seeing as the game specifically states that WW Link is not a reincarnation of the hero.

Well then that blows that argument out of the water haha.

Of course none of that matters anyway because there's no four sword in this game so 2/3rds of the playable characters aren't link anyway.

 

[Kinsei]

Well then that blows that argument out of the water haha.

Of course none of that matters anyway because there's no four sword in this game so 2/3rds of the playable characters aren't link anyway.

3/4 actually. Only the character you play as in single player is Link. All 3 of the multiplayer characters are not Link.

 

[Crocodile]

Hyrule Warriors is

A) not a mainline entry in the Zelda series but a fun little non-canon distraction

And

B) NOT developed by Nintendo.


Are you really trying to argue that Samus in Other M wasn't a noticeable regression of her character? Because I'd love to see you try.

Neither game was developed internally by Nintendo but they both had Nintendo oversight and they both are part of Nintendo's exclusive console game library and use their IP. If Other M counts against Nintendo (it does) than Hyrule Warriors should count for Nintendo (it does).

 

[Wavebossa]

It's not a matter of political correctness or progressiveness. People just want to play as female link. That's it.

There is no female link, that character doesn't exist.

Let me explain what I mean:

If we give Ryu a costume where he has breast and long hair would that be female Ryu? or Ryu with breast?

If we had a palette swap of Ryu with dark skin, would that be black Ryu? or blackface Ryu?

TLDR, I would rather have an actual female playable character (who is her own character) than a Link with long hair and boobs. That would be progressive imo.

 

[Beelzebufo]

3/4 actually. Only the character you play as in single player is Link. All 3 of the multiplayer characters are not Link.

Woah, seriously?

Umm well they all look a little feminine I guess. And the female developers don't mind probably. It's not a problem! Stop getting offended by everything, sometimes everyone's a guy. Nobody made them that way, it's just the natural state of some brand new original video game characters to be male. Mmhmm. I'm not offended.

There is no female link, that character doesn't exist.

Let me explain what I mean:

If we give Ryu a costume where he has breast and long hair would that be female Ryu? or Ryu with breast?

If we had a palette swap of Ryu with dark skin, would that be black Ryu? or blackface Ryu?

TLDR, I would rather have an actual female playable character (who is her own character) than a Link with long hair and boobs. That would be progressive imo.

But isn't Link himself just a generic term used to describe multiple different characters that wear the same clothes? Ryu is one guy.

 

[plagiarize]

This is true. It's not Nintendo's fault, this is they way the story happened. Changing their genders would ruin the historical accuracy of the game.

I like you.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Neither game was developed internally by Nintendo but they both had Nintendo oversight and they both are part of Nintendo's exclusive console game library and use their IP. If Other M counts against Nintendo (it does) than Hyrule Warriors should count for Nintendo (it does).

Actually, wasn't the entire backstory of the villain in Hyrule Warriors was that she was susceptible to becoming evil out of jealousy for Link? Because that kinda shit is ridiculous, not to mention yet another example of a character getting dark skin when she's evil. First being Tetra, who was rebellious.

There is no female link, that character doesn't exist.

Let me explain what I mean:

If we give Ryu a costume where he has breast and long hair would that be female Ryu? or Ryu with breast?

If we had a palette swap of Ryu with dark skin, would that be black Ryu? or blackface Ryu?

TLDR, I would rather have an actual female playable character (who is her own character) than a Link with long hair and boobs. That would be progressive imo.

Yes, this.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Pretty silly excuses, I don't see why for a game like this you shouldn't be able to pick an avatar. Especially if they're going with the whole "Hero for Hire" story, they could weave that into players being able to create their hero avatar, makes sense.

However, although I personally wouldn't mind a female Link, I do think that it is a better idea simply to make new female characters to play as on new games instead of changing one in games that already exist. I think that Link absolutely can be a woman because the story of the games doesn't set his gender in stone, however I wouldn't completely understand complaints from longtime fans about it, just as I would understand fans of, say, Wonder Woman being changed to Wonder Man or something. There is clear disparity between the representation of women in games, but that doesn't mean that men haven't grown attached to the characters they've been playing as over the years.

 

[Kouriozan]

Time to make her canon :
'Female Link' featured in Hyrule Warriors Artbook

 

[Deku Tree]

That's a pretty horrible non explanation. They might as well have said "we just didn't want to have a female avatar IMO."

 

[Jinfash]

this thread is a bunch of nonsense.
it's this stupid politically correctness gone mad, and everyone's just arguing for the sake of arguing. what rubbish.
the 3 heroes in this game are male because they're male. that's it.

there's no hidden meaning in it. nintendo aren't trying to make any political statements with it. they don't have anything against females in their company. there's no hidden agenda here. it's a non-issue.
the 3 characters are simply male, because they are, and nintendo didn't think there would be any issue with it… because really, there is no issue with it.
just a bunch of bored idiots making a mountain out of a molehill.

there are multiple games nintendo has made that feature strong lead female characters.
and the best thing about the scenarios when nintendo creates strong female characters is that it isn't done as some sort of response to real world politics or in order to address some gender equality issue… it's done simply because they wanted to make another lead female character in their game and it suited it.

which imo is a much better ethos than seeing a bunch of studios & publishers stumbling over each other trying to create female 'leads' in order to appear politically correct & appeal to some real-world political movement. imo that's more dishonest & pandering, because the intention to create a female lead isn't from genuine desire to create it, period… it's a 'pop-culture' knee-jerk reaction for the purposes of marketing and being able to be seen as 'progressive'.

People make a mountain out of a molehill so that maybe, MAYBE, this will be a consideration for their next Zelda/franchise. Then everyone can be happy and progress can be made. Nothing crazy about it.

 

[Kinsei]

Actually, wasn't the entire backstory of the villain in Hyrule Warriors was that she was susceptible to becoming evil out of jealousy for Link? Because that kinda shit is ridiculous, not to mention yet another example of a character getting dark skin when she's evil. First being Tetra, who was rebellious.


Yes, this.

Yeah, that was her backstory, and yes she did turn black when she became evil.

There is no female link, that character doesn't exist.

Let me explain what I mean:

If we give Ryu a costume where he has breast and long hair would that be female Ryu? or Ryu with breast?

If we had a palette swap of Ryu with dark skin, would that be black Ryu? or blackface Ryu?

TLDR, I would rather have an actual female playable character (who is her own character) than a Link with long hair and boobs. That would be progressive imo.

I think Ryu with breasts is called Sakura.

 

[SuperInuit]

Bullshit excuses aside, you're playing as Link. Regardless of different legends, Link is established as male in all of them.

But, this is a spin off so they could've gone with a female character and detached it from the canon if necessary. Just seems like a poorly defended oversight to me.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Wait, I'm confused. Why can't they have a female character?

 

[Walpurgis]

Female Link would incredibly lame when they already have a female character in the series title. Perhaps they should make more use of her.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

So you can't play as a woman because...they...decided you can't play as a woman.

Okay...

Honestly, thats their game, their vision... So I dont see the problem.

 

[Astral Dog]

They could had definetly shoehorned a female playable character there, Link or not, he already uses pretty dresses so they are half there.

It would not change much but would make the game a bit more appealing than a Four Swords sequel

 

[WrenchNinja]

Link in Wind Waker *regularly* emotes fear towards the enemies he faces. He also emotes annoyance at the stuff grandma wants him to do doesn't he? He's reluctant to even wear the hero outfit and go through that nonsense. He doesn't leave because he wanted to go off on adventures. He leaves because a giant bird took his sister and he's going to do everything he can to get her back, even if it means leaving the tiny island he has spent his entire life on for the first time.

Which enemies does he show fear to? Is it a regular enemy? Ganondorf? The big fat ghost clown? The scorpion dude? The giant plant? The worm?

Does he ever get annoyed when it starts raining? Or when he gets dragged into a whirlpool? Or when one of those squid monsters show up? Or when he sees another block and mirror puzzle? Or when Makar and Medli don't do what he wants him to do?

He doesn't show nearly as much determination as you make it out to be. Him leaving the island is a yes or no from the mail man and you going to tell grandma. There's no thinking about it.

 

[SkeptiMism]

There is no female link, that character doesn't exist.

Let me explain what I mean:

If we give Ryu a costume where he has breast and long hair would that be female Ryu? or Ryu with breast?

If we had a palette swap of Ryu with dark skin, would that be black Ryu? or blackface Ryu?

TLDR, I would rather have an actual female playable character (who is her own character) than a Link with long hair and boobs. That would be progressive imo.

I think it's fine to argue that Link shouldn't be a female in any game, because the character is long established as a male.

But I do really wish that people arguing against it wouldn't use bad arguments like that. Link is a different reincarnation in pretty much every single game. That's why comparisons to characters like Ruy don't work. Lore wise there would be absolutely no problem for Link to be female. In fact, lore wise it would actually make sense because what are the chances that Link is born male every single time?

That's as far as I'll go with touching the female Link argument in this thread (as in not saying my opinion, but simply pointing out a bad argument), as it's not really the topic of this thread to begin with at all (as there's no Link in the multiplayer of this game).

 

[mStudios]

Not everything necessarily needs an explanation, but there's no such thing that could not be asked about. If people ask questions, it's good to answer.

And this answer was ridiculous.

You know what happens? If he said: Because we decided a male character only. People in this thread would be giving the same answer.

No matter what the answer is, people are going to counter-argue the creator.
Better give a crappy/effortless answer than a detailed one if the result its going to be the same.

An artwork/concept art suddenly counts as canon.

Great

 

[Teknoman]

This is always what bothers me personally about this topic. I'm all for diversity in games, but the solution shouldn't be "Let's change previously established male characters to female" but rather it should be "Let's make the next Mirror's Edge/Life is Strange/Tomb Raider etc" the former is just lazy

This. I'm all for Zelda getting her own game / section of the adventure (since shes got some nice moves in Smash and Hyrule, same with Impa) But changing Link into woman just for diversity sake? Not necessary.

 

[Beelzebufo]

With the way these characters look, you could probably actually just say "actually the red one is a girl" and nobody would be able to prove you otherwise.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Just because they don't mind doesn't mean everyone else will agree with them. Also, Japan is leagues behind other nations in gender equality. What people may see as normal in society there can be seen as discriminatory in other countries.

Yep. This is one inch away from "I'm not racist, I have black friends...". We're also supposed to believe they would say something and risk their jobs, and that he would tell us if they had said something.

To tell the truth, this was the perfect chance to make a game with a varied cast like Super Mario 2 or Mario 3D World, and they fumbled the ball. How awesome would it have been to have each character wear different versions of the costumes, a la Final Fantasy V?