My thinking as well. And they've stated they can release even more hardware. This opens them up to experimenting aggressively if they choose. Personally I hope they put out ever more powerful models of all their hardware lines every 2 years. Oh that would be glorious IF DONE RIGHT.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nintendo looking for Lead Graphic Engineer for Next-Gen Console SoC in Redmond
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
My thinking as well. And they've stated they can release even more hardware. This opens them up to experimenting aggressively if they choose. Personally I hope they put out ever more powerful models of all their hardware lines every 2 years. Oh that would be glorious IF DONE RIGHT.
What? That's like asking Sony to have started the PS5 when the PS3 was released.
If that's a typo, then they probably did start development when the Wii U was released. Iwata has laid out their plans already so there are ideas and plans, they're just starting to implement them now.
Yes, it would have more games. Yes, droughts would be avoided. Yes, Nintendo's consoles will have more first party content and faster moving forward. They can have all that without cross buy.
My wish is for a deluxe XL 4DS system sometime after the 4DS releases. Imagine games that looked between the quality of a base 4DS and the console version (essentially the console version in full but at lower resolution). It should have a much larger battery, great cameras, great speakers. I would pay good monies for that.
whatever nintendo decides, they have a lot of work to do in gaining mindshare again.
this gen, the wiiU will leave a worse taste in the mouths of many developers and publishers, than in the mouths of actual gamers though, i'd imagine.
as a gamer, i personally feel the wiiu has enough great exclusives released or in the pipeline, to justify the purchase of the system.
as a developer however, i'd imagine there is very little about the console that could be found appealing.
i hope they at least stay in the same ballpark as the consoles from their competitors. el oh el, right?
this gen, the wiiU will leave a worse taste in the mouths of many developers and publishers, than in the mouths of actual gamers though, i'd imagine.
as a gamer, i personally feel the wiiu has enough great exclusives released or in the pipeline, to justify the purchase of the system.
as a developer however, i'd imagine there is very little about the console that could be found appealing.
i hope they at least stay in the same ballpark as the consoles from their competitors. el oh el, right?
Pellegri Testament
Member
Please no, do you know what that would mean when it comes to developing games that have a 2 year or longer development time? Or even games that don't start getting made right as the cycle starts again? It would be a nightmare for developers and would honestly cause even more of a drop off than we've seen with WiiU.
Game consoles can never be like phone models, it is impossible for them to do even remotely well when the tech is constantly being upgraded and games would constantly have to adhere to the requirements of said console.
KojiKnight
Member
The software back end for all of this has probably already been in development for a year or more. Nintendo doesn't necessarily have to have a target platform to begin developing their system concepts and working on the basics of their SDK/tools to take advantage of the higher level systems. This position is likely for someone who's going to help tack down the specifics on the hardware, which will need to be finalized about a year or so before production begins.
GhostTrick
Banned
Why would they do that?
Also, if their devices are one platform then the games you download for one will more than likely be available to play when you load up the other.
If you're programming to an OS, it won't be any trouble. Seriously, its vastly simpler than what you see in smartphones.
I agree with you, but Nintendo might see things differently, as with WiiU.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
hahaha, we're going to be lucky if we get anything above a 480p handheld.
Because it's the same damn game, so they can sell it in two places at lower cost and still make a lot of money, while appearing to the consumer as if software prices have gone down, when in reality Nintendo is raking it in. Lower priced software also has the potential to sell more due to the lowered price.
There are many people who only invest in one side of Nintendo's gaming devices. Not everyone owns a 3DS+Wii U. Lowering the prices appeals to each on their own respective side.
For those who own both, you get a discount. You owning another Nintendo device for say the $200 you paid for it doesn't entitle you to never spend a dime on software for the console.
KojiKnight
Member
Programming to an OS versus programming to a platform does mean you won't get the most out of the hardware, and that you run the risk of older software becoming incompatible with incremental changes to the hardware unless you lock that hardware to a compatibility mode.
They are not going to care about getting the most out of hardware moving forward, absolutely meaningless. Also, it will take 4 years to jump two revisions. That's almost in line with a normal handheld generation. Not a big deal to upgrade every 4 years. Or, if they want to stretch it, look at how PC games can run on ancient hardware and still get decent performance. I have an ancient PC, still plays most even newer games beautifully yet at lower settings.
It seemed they learned their lessons this time, hearing what Shige said some times ago about casuals.
Problem is they won't ever leave their fandome museum doghouse as long as they don't raise their game. There is the casual, non gamer market, and there is the, i never know how to call it.. the dudebro market let's say (but that's obviously simplistic). Nintendo is comfortably between those two, with it's own, ever shrinking market.
There would be different strategy to conquer one or the other. I think they tried too much to have all in the same hardware, and the WiiU is exactly that.
The Wii strategy of having a new fresh control method to reinvent the wheel could still work IF it's something relevant that replaces other methods, versus being a funny diversion like motion control. If Nintendo actually comes with a way of controlling a call of duty game, that makes everything else ridiculous, then they'll have everyone's attention.
I still think they should think software and programming before that. I still think Nintendo will be relevant again for non fans, when they show the world how it's done. When a new Metroid game or a Mario are not a wink to fans but games that define genres and open new horizons to gamers, gameplay and sensation wise.
Finding back that ambition is way more important than any hardware they'll have.
But in term of hardware strategy, i'd say what i've been saying for a long time. Focus on a portable system that is legit. That means a good ergonomic, good enough graphics (between wii and wiiu), tv out, and that breaks the idea (in the west) that portable is cheap and for kids. Market that as the ONLY main Nintendo console. Make it clear (cause it's not yet for everyone it seems..) that there are no 2 pillars anymore, and that every major Nintendo ips will have its legit entry on it (like it's not already the case...). Smash Bros is now on portable. The only thing i see that is not yet on portable are full 3D Zelda, but that's a matter of time. They could have port any Wii Zelda on 3ds already, so why not develop an original one for it. Add great lan/communication techs to this portable so it can do what you tried with WiiU, in term of uniting the family in the living room. Be smart with that, have community games (MonHun, Animal Crossing..) in mind to allow for even greater contamination!
You can call it something like UNES (unified nintendo entertainement system) for wow impact.
Now if you really want a second pillar, then don't mimic the first one, don't be redundant.
Now that you have your perfect Nintendo machine for all your needs, try to experiment with the home console. Try to seduce dudebros with new techs aimed at them, that can bring enough curiosity to your ips. Of course VR is what i have in mind for exemple. It's the exact opposite of what Ninendo has been trying to do for years, in term of connection etc.. But that's exactly what they need to offer an alternative offer to seduce people who don't give a shit about them. I'm still pretty sure Nintendo can still make an impact, as VR hardware solutions are standards and use common techs, but Nintendo can still be the first to launch with.. relevant, genre making, revolutionary VR games.. And that'll make a massive difference when what we'll have for years are niche accessories on console with small games, and pc softs that needs crazy configs, while still being mods most of the time! A fully VR oriented Metroid game on a light headset in 2016 ? That could be the real start of a new era which still needs a king!
Isn't the 360/PS3 memory bandwidth split though? Half for read and half for write so you're only get half the bandwidth? Wii U's is bidirectional so it's pretty much on par, or even possibly a bit better in some cases, but that introduces it's own issues as it can only read or write but not both simultaneously. If that's not accounted for, as would be the case for a game ported from 360/PS3, performance is going to suffer.
Oh I Know, just making the point that they need to do so.
What I really want answered is whether Nintendo's Wii era philosophy of small, power efficient consoles with capabilities matching the previous generation but sold on gameplay interface innovation has changed in the face of WiiU's sales performance. Miyamoto revealed exactly what the WiiU would be in terms of performance shortly after the Wii released by outlining exactly that. I remember him saying that when they can get current gen level visuals on a machine as small and efficient as the Wii, that's when their successor will be released.
This philosophy really should have changed.
If it has, I expect great things from Nintendo on the hardware front. Future competitive hardware on familiar architecture with no major glaring compromises.
They really can't go it alone any longer; especially without buying up and/or expanding their internal software studios. But then again, Japanese mentality can cripple or kill companies. Sony, Nikon, Nintendo all driving themselves into the ground. The Koreans get it.
This philosophy really should have changed.
If it has, I expect great things from Nintendo on the hardware front. Future competitive hardware on familiar architecture with no major glaring compromises.
They really can't go it alone any longer; especially without buying up and/or expanding their internal software studios. But then again, Japanese mentality can cripple or kill companies. Sony, Nikon, Nintendo all driving themselves into the ground. The Koreans get it.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Wouldn't surprise me. Would be catastrophic though.
They need to stop kidding themselves and start paying attention to the realities of the marketplace, or they're destined to remain forever niche from now on.
levyjl1988
Banned
With heavy competition and lots of people used to Apple's retina display and 4k by the time that thing releases. I expect larger 3D screens with more pixel density. 1080p or 1440p handheld with ipad like battery life and thinness. Games that are developed for hone console will be playable on handhelds.
DarkCronos
Member
as many have already said I expect them to go with the same architecture on both the portable and the home console. Probably a custom design from AMD with Arm processor and radeon graphics. The home console would have beefier processor and a gpu with more CU/shaders but the base architecture would be the same. Maybe they'll also throw in an espresso co-processor for BC/OS/virtual console. This setup would probably allow them to run the same games on both platforms, with lower graphics settings on the portable and higher on the home console. I think that not every game will be released on both platforms, only some will (a la smash), but this unified architecture will allow them to share tools and assets between the two platforms, making easier to create different games with the same assets(think Mario 3d land vs 3d world). So yeah, in this way they should be able to develop a lot more games per years.
I think this would also be good for third parties. Wii U would be lucky to reach an installed base of 15 - 20M at the end of its life. 3DS i think 60 - 65. Even if nintendo's next generation consoles sell the same, The unified ecosistem gives them a potential installed base of 75 - 85M. Which is harder to ignore for a third party publisher compared to the numbers Wii U is doing right now.
I think this would also be good for third parties. Wii U would be lucky to reach an installed base of 15 - 20M at the end of its life. 3DS i think 60 - 65. Even if nintendo's next generation consoles sell the same, The unified ecosistem gives them a potential installed base of 75 - 85M. Which is harder to ignore for a third party publisher compared to the numbers Wii U is doing right now.
GhostTrick
Banned
Maybe more, if they release another hardware based on the same architecture.
I could see them releasing a handheld with 2 to 4 ARM A57 cores at 800mhz and a 4cu at 500mhz part while the home console would be 4 to 8 cores A57 1600mhz and 8cu at 1ghz.
Calamari41
41 > 38
If the PC I build today can play games that I bought more than a decade ago on Steam without trouble, then I don't really see why Nintendo can't implement the same concept. Especially when their hardware generations and operating systems will actually be controlled and standardized across the board.
Now I don't have working knowledge of these hardware architecture concepts, but to me it seems intuitive that if it works for PCs and phones/tablets, it should be able to work for Nintendo consoles if they set out to do it.
Now I don't have working knowledge of these hardware architecture concepts, but to me it seems intuitive that if it works for PCs and phones/tablets, it should be able to work for Nintendo consoles if they set out to do it.
If this architecture was already in place the current install base (50m+) would be already a massive opportunity even if only for Nintendo, imagine what they could do with their resources if they only developed one version of NSMB, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, 3D Mario and DKCR it probably wouldn't mean 5 more games, but maybe ports of Kid Icarus, Luigi's Mansion and Animal Crossing during the droughts.
Haven't they always used controller innovation to push new consoles though, at least partly? In some ways, the tablet controller is one of the least innovative they've produced; despite being eye-catching, it sees them continuing to riff on the dual screen idea - contrast analogue sticks, motion controls, which were genuine departures.
I also wonder about the wisdom of a unified OS. It would help with droughts, but not as much as winning back wider third party support, and personally I think the great strength of 3ds and ds before it is games that are suited to the smallscale portable experience - not necessarily stuff I want to play on the TV.
Fourth Storm
Member
Do we know this as fact? I would not be surprised if it was all high level stuff on the GPU side, but I'd imagine there's still some direct control of the various CPU memory pools. Nintendo advertised the locked L1 dcache in that feature set leak.
No way in hell nintendo waits till 2018 to release the next console. Beyond Zelda for holiday 2015 and maybe Q1 2016 (SMTxFE may slide here) there are no major releases unless they plan on doing hd remakes for all their N64-Wii first party games from 2016-2018.
It'll be like the Wii from Jan 2011 to Wii U launch in Nov 2012. We got three operational rainfall games, Kirbys Return to Dreamland and Skyward Sword. 5 games worth playing in a span of 1 year and 10 months.
If nintendo doesn't make a new console or handheld by holiday 2016 they are royally fucked.
And making the console an overclocked PS4 won't be enough. This is the one time where they will have to think ahead and bite the bullet and lose money on hardware to produce a console that is at least twice as powerful as a PS4 (like a 3 TFLOP GPU and 8 core CPU clocked above 2.0 GHz and maybe 12GB of RAM).
Not to mention a seamless account system that is attached to a username in the cloud, not a specific piece of hardware.
But I don't see it happening with Iwata or the current shareholders.
It'll be like the Wii from Jan 2011 to Wii U launch in Nov 2012. We got three operational rainfall games, Kirbys Return to Dreamland and Skyward Sword. 5 games worth playing in a span of 1 year and 10 months.
If nintendo doesn't make a new console or handheld by holiday 2016 they are royally fucked.
And making the console an overclocked PS4 won't be enough. This is the one time where they will have to think ahead and bite the bullet and lose money on hardware to produce a console that is at least twice as powerful as a PS4 (like a 3 TFLOP GPU and 8 core CPU clocked above 2.0 GHz and maybe 12GB of RAM).
Not to mention a seamless account system that is attached to a username in the cloud, not a specific piece of hardware.
But I don't see it happening with Iwata or the current shareholders.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Think we will see anything next E3?
i would think they would release the new handheld in 2016 and the next nintendo console in 2017 that way there is at least a full 4 year wii u focus. With that said they need some new variety on the games cause even with the combining of games with both systems if you don't like nintendo games then there is no point buying the console except for maybe some jrpg goodness. Bayonetta is nice but its not first party so it doesn't really show nintendo branching out and making new things.
edit: but at least if nintendo was as powerful as the others 3rd party western devs would have less excuses for not releasing games on nintendo console.
I don't think so, the New 3DS will be released few months before the E3, if they show anything the sales would take a hit, but is impossible to predict what Nintendo will do.
250w TDP or bust.
deltatheta
Member
I don't think the New 3DS is a serious product for Nintendo. It's not intended to be a major platform, it's just there because technology has evolved since the 3DS was designed and it's now cheap enough to make the product a little more appealing without spending too much on parts.
Nikodemos
Member
I second this. The New 3DS is the 3DS's Motion Plus moment.
If this gen has proven anything, it's that people don't give a FUCK about backwards compatibility.
If they were smart, they wouldn't include BC in the next console. Instead, re-sell $40 1080p versions of every Wii U game that was worth owning. Not only does it fill gaps in the release schedule, but PS4 and Xbone remasters have proven that that shit actually sells.
If they were smart, they wouldn't include BC in the next console. Instead, re-sell $40 1080p versions of every Wii U game that was worth owning. Not only does it fill gaps in the release schedule, but PS4 and Xbone remasters have proven that that shit actually sells.
DaSorcerer7
Member
I think they have alluded to basing future architecture on the Wii U, so I think the new system may be inherently backwards compatible.
LegendofLex
Member
Printing more copies to sell at a lower price =/= letting people redownload games on all their devices. One of these involves Nintendo assuming more inventory risk on a product for which they're accepting lower margins (why put more boxes of an older product out for $20 when you can put more boxes of a newer product out for $50 instead); the other is Nintendo providing a service that carries virtually no sales cost for free to existing, already-paid customers (why pay for the thing you already paid for if it doesn't cost us anything).
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the comparison you're making is apples and oranges. It's hugely important to maximize margins when a product (like a GameCube disc) has a significant cost of sale; it's much, much less important to capture as many consumer dollars as possible from each product sold when your cost of sale of virtually zero.
That's funny, I can't think of any announced games that are confirmed for beyond 2015 on any platform.
Yes but you can make the assumption that new third party and first party games will be announced for Xbox and playstation. Nintendo has no third party support and has already released or announced for release their major franchises.
What's left for 2016? Metroid, F-Zero, a new IP (nintendo makes maybe three a generation).
DaSorcerer7
Member
Business
Member
I'm betting on a handheld that you can connect to your TV when you are at home. They have been talking too much lately about how they would like to have one ecosystem only for handheld and home console, plus if they don't get more third party support it makes a lot of sense to stop splitting their own resources.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
LegendofLex
Member
And? Last generation most of the big franchises on Wii saw at least two releases (Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario & Sonic) the trend these days has been toward annual or semiannual series anyway, and outside of "once per platform" games like Mario Kart and Smash Nintendo hasn't been an exception.
Not true. Right before E3 everyone had Zelda, X, Yoshi and SMTxFE pegged for 2015. Splatoon and Kirby were the only surprises.
Eolz
Member
Scalebound maybe?
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Late 2015 or early 2016 would be more likely perhaps?
TheMoon
Member
lol no.
New 3DS will have just launched, Wii U will be in full swing, QOL will have been revealed already. No hardware at E3 2015. I'd expect it 2016.