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Nintendo looking for Lead Graphic Engineer for Next-Gen Console SoC in Redmond
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I think ARM would make the most sense for a console too, unless they get a killer deal from AMD like MS and Sony supposedly did.
We already have ARM CPU designs that kick the crap out of the Jaguar x86 cores in PS4/X1, so performance is not an issue.
TaintedHotSauce
Member
Who has ARM CPU designs that kick the crap out of Jaguar x86 cores besides Apple? I think it's far more likely MS and Sony stick with x86 and move back to a four year release cycle with backwards compatibility.
TheMoon
Member
You do know Sony and MS are using tablet CPUs, too, right?
AMD actually have a line of ARM based server CPUs, so a killer AMD deal and ARM aren't mutually exclusive.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
A while back, somebody made a really detailed post as for why Nintendo would actually lose money not putting out hardware. Wish I could find it.
Think the CPU architecture will finally change this time. With WiiU the GPU was a drastic change over Wii (fixed function DX7 style to full programmable unified shader DX10.1). So they probably felt that changing to a entirely different CPU architecture at the same time would cause them far too much trouble from a development standpoint.
Next console the GPU architecture will just be a evolution and something they'll be quite comfortable working with. So I can see them finally moving on to something newer for their CPU.
Next console the GPU architecture will just be a evolution and something they'll be quite comfortable working with. So I can see them finally moving on to something newer for their CPU.
Plus part of the point of Amiibo is that it works with the base system. Hence the N3DS with NFC releasing before the 3DS add-on.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
True story, Sony and MS found the CPU cores in cereal boxes and AMD had left a space empty in the SoC...
.Hardware revenue is basically as big as software revenue for them. Also they'd bear new costs as a 3rd party such as paying out licensing royalties and r&d investment on foreign platforms. Beyond losing a significant chunk of hardware revenue they'd also lose out on 3rd party software royalties. And if Sega's 3rd party transition is any indication there's the potential for a pervasive loss of morale and significant staff exodus.
3rd party Nintendo isn't really the slam dunk move some seem to believe. And if Nintendo were to dip their toes into making software for other vendors' hardware then things like tablets, phones and computers make a lot more immediate sense than directly competitive consoles.
Nintendo focuses on experimentation rather than money making.They especially like to experiment with their hardware. If they became a third party publisher, they would lose much of that freedom. A Nintendo motivated solely by profit would be no different from EA, Activision, Ubisoft etc. Yearly games in popular franchises filled with DLC and bugs. Unprofitable games cancelled and studios closed down.
Besides gamers on other systems care far more about western games than Nintendo games. If there was a desire for Nintendo style games on other platforms, then those kind of games would sell better.
Definitely would IMO, for a few reasons.
First of all the majority of people who want to buy Nintendo games buy Nintendo consoles. So there's very little reason to believe that Nintendo games would suddenly sell far bigger numbers if released on other consoles. Considering third party means they would make significantly less money per game sold (they'd have to pay a license fee per copy sold) there's every reason to think they'd bring in less money from selling their games third party even if they could sell more copies.
Also developing for other consoles means they have to rely on the hardware provided for them, and adapt to it. Which makes development harder. Right now Nintendo make their hardware to suit their development needs, which is part of the reason they can produce the games they do.
Finally they'd lose the money they make from every third party game sold on a Nintendo console. Nintendo consoles may have less third party sales then Sony or MS but millions upon millions of third party games are still sold on Nintendo consoles, with $10 or so for every copy sold going into Nintendo's pocket. Plus they still make profit on hardware.
Unless people think they'll suddenly start selling 4x as many games by going third party I don't see how anyone can begin to believe leaving the hardware business is a good idea.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
http://www.notebookcheck.net/SoC-Shootout-x86-vs-ARM.99496.0.html
^ there's Tegra 4 (1.8GHz quad A15) beating AMD A4-5000 (1.5 GHz quad Jaguar) in most benchmarks.
Now we have Tegra K1 with either quad 2.3GHz A15 or dual 2.5GHz Denver (Nvidia's custom 64-bit design) cores. Samsung and soon Qualcomm are both using Cortex A57 (ARM 64-bit reference design), which outperforms that 2.3GHz A15 slightly.
http://www.androidauthority.com/tegra-k1-exynos-5433-snap-805-541582/
So who has ARM CPUs that kick the crap out of Jaguar? Pretty much everybody by this point.
Complete with desktop cooling? And price tags? It's not going to happen for lots of reasons, but the good news is that power-efficient CPU cores are advancing rapidly. Part of that is a tremendous worldwide demand for portable, passively cooled devices.
Woah, i missed this news.
Is this confirmed to be for a new home console, or could it be for something else, including a new handheld?
Anyhow, given that they have almost zero third party support, i think they're free to move away from the WiiU whenever they want, it's basically a box for exclusives right now.
Is this confirmed to be for a new home console, or could it be for something else, including a new handheld?
Anyhow, given that they have almost zero third party support, i think they're free to move away from the WiiU whenever they want, it's basically a box for exclusives right now.
TheMoon
Member
Nothing is confirmed. It's a job listing. You can read all we officially know in there. It could be for anything really.
Personally I think they may stick with Power cpu due to the openpower intiative IBM have started. Nintendo could design their own Power CPU using power 8 as a basis (power 8 chips are stupidly quick and have some nice features which lend themselves to console CPU/GPU design). Even something like a 3 core CPU would clobber the hell out of jaguar based chips. Power 8 CPU-GPU linkage is so good that it can cut through huge amounts of driver and OS overhead. It also has has massive memory bandwidth (something nintendo love, the fast the better in their design philosophy).
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
People hoped/believed that the Wii successor would use something Power7 based and that never happened. Hoping for something Power8 based in a Wii U successor seems equally unlikely. I'm still expecting them to partner with AMD and use ARM.
Like the hat?
Banned
With their own hardware, nintendo makes money on every single piece of software sold, and they don't pay licensing fees. Going third party, they would only make money off their own games, as well as paying license fees to Sony or MS.
I think he means overall. It's kinda apparent that the new consoles are held back by their CPU.
McHuj
Member
2 out of 7 benchmarks is most?
dickgumshoe
Member
Doesn't this suggest that the console or handheld in question is at least three years away? I think these decisions are planned a long time ahead.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
90% sure next hardware will no longer be console or handheld, it'll be both, think WiiU gamepad but fully portable, connect to TV wirelessly. It'd be the most logical thing to do since Nintendo wouldnt split themselves in half to support both platforms.
TheMoon
Member
Not at all. This was discussed earlier in the thread. It's a mistake to assume they're hiring for this position to start a project when it's actually way more likely that the new hire would fill in for someone who recently left NTD and jump into an on-going R&D project.
stan423321
Member
It would be the most logical thing, right, but it isn't the easiest thing either. That said, I would love to see it done right.
TheMoon
Member
It being the most logical thing should be a red flag meaning it's the exact thing they won't do.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
I was mainly looking at CPU benchmarks, not GPU. You're right though, I shod have said "some".
But anyway the fact is that Jaguar is on-par with late 2012's state of the art ARM CPU. And we have come a long way since then both in terms of architectures (especially Denver) and clock speeds.
Sorry to keep beating a dead horse but PS4 and X1 really set a low bar in terms of CPU performance.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
It's not the most logical thing at all. The transforming hybrid console really wouldn't make sense to Nintendo, but most importantly Iwata already confirmed that won't be the case.
The next-generation will revolved around "unified architecture" and "hardware acting as brothers". Those are direct quotes from Iwata. What this likely means is that all or most software might be cross-playable across a Nintendo console and Nintendo handheld. It doesn't benefit Nintendo to sell less hardware, what benefits them is not having to independently support two hardware platforms, even more develop the same game almost twice every generation.
shark sandwich
tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Good point. This would be a possibility if Nintendo goes with an AMD GPU again.
GhostTrick
Banned
The way I see it is like iPhone and iPad. Vita and Vita TV. Sega Genesis and Sega Nomad.
Yes, he used the iOS ecosystem as example of what they are planning.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They will still need to target two different performance targets or the lowest common denominator which would make the home console extra performance useless.
I see them handling there two platforms like an iOS developer would handle an iPad Air 2 and and an iPhone 5 (perhaps an iPhone 4S would be more appropriate) with the same codebase. Maybe there is going to be an even bigger performance and resources gulf between the two devices, but I could see fat binaries running on both.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yep. In any case, the home console would be extremely underpowered, even compared to PS4 in 2018... so if they want to limit the damage for such a vision, they need a powerful handheld.
My baseless guess would be a 4 inch handheld and a 7 inch gamepad with the actual hardware inside and a Chromecast style device for TV and multiplayer play. Nintendo creates their own Play store style ecosystem. Google and Amazon haven't been very successful creating set top boxes, but maybe a company used to making set top boxes can break into the mobile world.
Yeah, there have been plenty of them scattered around Nintendo financial threads in the past couple years. I think the one you're talking about was by Captain Smoker, but I'm not entirely sure. For me it basically comes down to this; every single instance of a platform holder going third-party has resulted in a noticeable decline in quantity and quality of software from their internal studios.
- Hudson were never really that big but their software was arguably at its best when the PC-Engine was competing with the NES and Sega Master System.
- SNK became a KoF only studio after phasing out the Neo Geo platform.
- Capcom's arcade division slowed down after they stopped making their proprietary CPS boards, and declined even further after they ended their partnership with Sega on Naomi hardware.
- We've all seen what happened to Sega after they stopped making consoles and all the games that started off as Dreamcast projects were released on the other 6th gen platforms. Interestingly enough, their arcade output is still somewhat decent (compared to their anemic console efforts, anyway) and I think at least part of it has to do with having to sell their Ringedge hardware.
- I'm not very knowledgeable about shmups but from my understanding, Cave has yet to release an original shooter after increasing their focus on mobile at the expense of their own arcade boards. Based on a quick look at their recent financial results, it doesn't seem like the bigger install base offered by smartphones and tablets had a significant positive impact on their bottom line since the shift.
After noticing how most, if not all platform holders go down the drain after going third-party, I'd rather have Nintendo keep doing their own thing but work harder to make their platforms more attractive (whether it's through more appealing software, hardware, OS features, branding or a combination of the four) to the market than risk becoming another Sega because some people don't want to buy another console to play Mario, Zelda or Pokemon.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
Wii Us
Earlier I made a post on how Nintendo had given up on Wii U, guess this just closes it then.
Earlier I made a post on how Nintendo had given up on Wii U, guess this just closes it then.
What would be the point of this? You're much better off selling an affordable Wii-like console (small, sleek, no more than $199-249 at launch) and an affordable handheld that can also double as a second screen in certain gameplay scenarios than fiddling with streaming or docking stations.
Father_Brain
Banned
There are a number of valid reasons to be skeptical about Nintendo's prospects as a third party (and some terrible ones, like licensing revenue from third parties - that's never coming back, haha), but at the end of the day, I believe that the audience for glorified Mario boxes - Nintendo hardware that exists primarily to play Nintendo software - will only continue to shrink. Nor do I believe there's anything Nintendo could do to win back third parties to a degree that that description is no longer accurate.
Just like how Sony gave up on the PS3 in 2008.
Shin Johnpv
Member
No it doesn't. Hardware developers start working on the next console as soon as one ships. Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft started working on their next platforms as soon as they launched the Wii U/PS4/Xbox One. This shit takes years and years of time to develop, plan, and execute.
Fourth Storm
Member
Yeah, I can see them launching the home console in 2017, but no later. Maybe we'll get a Wii U Metroid in 2016 to hold us over.
I think it would fit into the Nintendo OS idea they have been talking about and they would be in a much better position to capitalize on QoL if it blows up. The 4 inch an 7 inch device would run the same software with similar hardware and a device to stream to the a TV using the great solution they developed for Wii U.
Monster Hunter 4G and Youkai Watch 2 have both sold over two million copies in Japan(YW closer to 3). So lets just say 4 million copies and Nintendo is getting $10 on each(don't know if that is overestimating). That's $40 million dollars in revenue right there across two games(admittedly the two biggest games). That's not a huge amount but it's also not negligible either.
That's before taking into account Nintendo would have to pay $10 for every copy of one of their games sold.
I can guarantee Sony and Microsoft are deep in R&D for their next consoles. Pretty much as soon as one generation launches, work starts on the next.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Or they have to deal, in case there is a big performance and resources gulf between the handheld and the home console hard wares, with something they might be underestimating: content pipeline and performance scaling between the two chipsets (unlikely for Nintendo to underestimate issues like this...
)Father_Brain
Banned
Don't get me wrong, Japanese handheld third-party support is the biggest exception to that. But even there, I don't see the trend away from dedicated gaming devices reversing itself, and I'm doubtful that a few third-party million-sellers in a single region can generate enough revenue to justify the expense of building and maintaining an entire hardware/software ecosystem.
It's a pretty big exception and those games are not the only one's releasing, that's just two games this year and the third version of YW2 has yet to launch. There are literally hundreds of games on the 3DS and every time one sells Nintendo gets a cut. You might be right that in the future the revenue might be small enough to justify dropping out but I definitely don't think that's the case now.
Between the fees third parties currently pay Nintendo and the fees Nintendo would have to pay we are literally talking billions of dollars. That's not something you can just dismiss.