• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Nintendo Switch Dev Kit Stats Leaked? Cortex A57, 4GB RAM, 32GB Storage, Multi-Touch.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
Mar 2, 2006
19,534
0
0
A73's and 4300mah battery?

We $950 and on par with Xbox One, fam!
Plenty of cheap tablets have huge batteries though. It's the A73 that makes me doubt this supposed leak.
 

Maniel

Banned
Apr 30, 2015
1,133
0
0
*blinks

Not this again

Those mobile games aren't native 2k
He's talking about how the phones have to power 2k screens instead of the 720p screen that Switch will have, therefore it be more power efficient than those phones. He's not comparing the graphics of them.
 

calc84maniac

Member
Jul 11, 2012
2,839
0
0
He's talking about how the phones have to power 2k screens instead of the 720p screen that Switch will have, therefore it be more power efficient than those phones.
True, but that can be considered overhead not related to playing games, e.g. the power you spend when reading an e-book or something.
 

ChrisMahoney

Banned
Dec 16, 2013
682
0
0
I guess PC development must be very hard what with there being so many different CPUs out there that devs have to manually program tasks for their individual cores :p
PCs make up for it by being more powerful.
Just look at any Uncharted dev tech talks
 

antonz

Member
May 12, 2010
22,354
0
0
4300mAh battery isn't out of the question. Not an expensive battery by any means. I would anticipate 3000mAh is the smallest battery size for anywhere close to what's being suggested as battery life.
 

Schnozberry

Member
Nov 9, 2012
4,804
6
430
4300mAh battery isn't out of the question. Not an expensive battery by any means. I would anticipate 3000mAh is the smallest battery size for anywhere close to what's being suggested as battery life.
The Nvidia Shield Tablet had a 5200mAh battery and sold for a reasonable price, so 4300 isn't out of bounds. The other parts of the rumor make it sound like someone's fantasy, though.
 

M3d10n

Member
Aug 28, 2006
11,468
1
0
ARM requires recompile at least, but the power difference might force adjustment in some of the core code especially anything related to physics. Don't know if cross play would survive in that scenario.
Any title that cross play with PC would need to be designed to survive performance differences. Not everyone can afford them i7s or even i5s. The idea that every, or even the majority, of the PC gaming population belongs in the "master race" tier of hardware specs doesn't really match reality.

Steam hardware stats show over 40% of users only have dual core CPUs. Plus, Intel consumer CPUs still cap at four cores.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
26,118
0
0
Thinking more about it, the only way all the info/rumours that we know make sense together is if there are 3 SM in the SoC. That would also match what Laura said about the devkit in October being more powerful than the ones in July (assuming July devkits were stock Jetson boards).

But I refuse to get my hopes up for now.
 

Eolz

Member
Jun 1, 2014
10,193
20
475
I guess their excuse this time for the lack of an ethernet port is due to the whole dock/handheld situation? Which is a bit stupid, but who knows...
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
Thinking more about it, the only way all the info/rumours that we know make sense together is if there are 3 SM in the SoC. That would also match what Laura said about the devkit in October being more powerful than the ones in July (assuming July devkits were stock Jetson boards).

But I refuse to get my hopes up for now.
The other way to possibly make sense of the fan part (at least) is that Laura seemed to hint that the "console mode" clock rates can actually be used in portable mode. Whether this is just a dev function or the end user can decide, I guess we have no idea at this point. But as someone who will use it primarily as a handheld around the house and near outlets, that's good to know.

Just worried about the fan running when playing games with intense motion controls...

I guess their excuse this time for the lack of an ethernet port is due to the whole dock/handheld situation? Which is a bit stupid, but who knows...
The patent clearly allows for an ethernet connection to the dock, likely through a USB adapter, so that doesn't seem to be the reason. USB for everything seems a bit more convenient overall though, since you won't necessarily have any wasted ports if you don't want to use ethernet.
 

Hermii

Member
Sep 17, 2012
6,983
0
0
The other way to possibly make sense of the fan part (at least) is that Laura seemed to hint that the "console mode" clock rates can actually be used in portable mode. Whether this is just a dev function or the end user can decide, I guess we have no idea at this point. But as someone who will use it primarily as a handheld around the house and near outlets, that's good to know.

Just worried about the fan running when playing games with intense motion controls...
I would be very surprised if docked mode isn't docked only in the retail version. Just seems like a too complicated function and mainstream consumers wouldn't care about it if they could even be explained the difference. Especially if there is an extra fan in the dock its not a possibility.

It could also give developers an excuse to downprioritize mobile mode and just ask consumers to plug it in.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
I would be very surprised if docked mode isn't docked only in the retail version. Just seems like a too complicated function and mainstream consumers wouldn't care about it if they could even be explained the difference. Especially if there is an extra fan in the dock its not a possibility.

It could also give developers an excuse to downprioritize dock mode and just ask consumers to plug it in.
Well this is coming from Laura seeming to suggest that the 3 hour battery life is for the "docked mode" performance, though she may not have meant that you can actually run the portable in docked mode without docking. If this is the case however, the "portable mode" might wind up being more like a "power-save" mode than a standard play mode.

That would seem to counter the idea mentioned by the patent, but it's worth remembering that the US patent was filed in June 2016 and the Japanese patent from which it claims priority was from June 2015, so a lot could have changed between then and now.
 

Mokujin

Member
Jun 16, 2013
1,386
0
0
Thinking more about it, the only way all the info/rumours that we know make sense together is if there are 3 SM in the SoC. That would also match what Laura said about the devkit in October being more powerful than the ones in July (assuming July devkits were stock Jetson boards).

But I refuse to get my hopes up for now.
What needs 3SM to make sense? While there's still some room for speculation all seems quite explicable without resorting to a conspiracy "there is more secret power inside" theory.

Fan thermal solution can be attributed to fab node, or the simple fact that all cpu cores and gpu working at full load for long periods of time requires it even at those clocks.

In the case of the audible fan in dev kits as someone pointed earlier that doesn't imply that was overclocked by itself.
 

baguetteness

Neo Member
Jul 30, 2016
18
5
170
The fan could be there so when you use the switch while recharing (out of the dock) you can play at full speed. Maybe the downclock only takes place while using the batteries.

While docked the fan on the portable unit would keep quiet to avoid overuse.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Sep 12, 2013
6,635
0
0
That's just asking for having broken fans and for even more additional annoyance to developer which would have to develop a "docked" mode for a 720p resolution instead of having the same mode at just different resolutions.

It won't happen.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Jan 9, 2013
26,118
0
0
What needs 3SM to make sense? While there's still some room for speculation all seems quite explicable without resorting to a conspiracy "there is more secret power inside" theory.

Fan thermal solution can be attributed to fab node, or the simple fact that all cpu cores and gpu working at full load for long periods of time requires it even at those clocks.

In the case of the audible fan in dev kits as someone pointed earlier that doesn't imply that was overclocked by itself.
Thraktor summed it up better:

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226861686&highlight=#post226861686

At those clocks with 2 SM and 4 CPU cores there is simply not enough heat generated to require a fan in handheld mode and the power draw is really small.

We got several people confirming the specs in the OP of this thread including Emily based on (assuming) devkits from July. Which are now partially confirmed and partially contradicted by DF.

We got now Laura saying that October devkits are more powerful than July ones. So you have 2 scenarios: DF reported on July devkit which would be strange given the timing of the report but it would also mean that things have changed meanwhile or DF reported on October devkits meaning that the July devkits were even more underpowered and it would be quite amazing that no dev complained about them. Handheld mode is already at Wii U level, imagine being even lower in July.

3 SM would explain the whole situation better. But as I said, I don't want to necessarily believe in this scenario, because it can also be the case that Nintendo fucked something in Switch design that makes it not being very good at cooling.

Still I don't really think one can say with straight face that the whole situation is not strange, knowing how TX1 can perform in real devices.
 

M3d10n

Member
Aug 28, 2006
11,468
1
0
The fan could be there so when you use the switch while recharing (out of the dock) you can play at full speed. Maybe the downclock only takes place while using the batteries.

While docked the fan on the portable unit would keep quiet to avoid overuse.
Docked mode is pretty much guaranteed to only work when plugged on the dock because that's the only charger that is guaranteed to output the necessary power to both run the system at full clock and charge it at the same time, something the cheap 3rd party chargers people will inevitably purchase won't do.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jan 29, 2008
36,153
3
0
Australia
Can we connect it to a GameCube to unlock boost power?
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
Docked mode is pretty much guaranteed to only work when plugged on the dock because that's the only charger that is guaranteed to output the necessary power to both run the system at full clock and charge it at the same time, something the cheap 3rd party chargers people will inevitably purchase won't do.
In Laura's AMA on Reddit she seemed to hint that games can be played at the docked clock rates even when portable and not on any power supply:

I suspect if you turn down settings, playing a game at portable mode clock speed, it'll last more than three hours.
I initially heard 3 hours max battery, no clue if that's full clock or "portable" clock speed. I've heard longer estimates since which would lead me to suspect 3 hours is if you play a game fully clocked but not connected to power, which is doable at the very least with dev kits.
PAtents say that you can, in theory, run the Switch at full clock speed while portable. This is a developer level choice not a user level toggle.
Source

It may wind up being the developer's choice regarding whether or not each game does this. If you get 3 hours of battery life for a game which needs docked clock speeds even to render at 720p, then it seems like it's probably worth it to do so. 3 hours isn't all that bad.

EDIT: I think this the most interesting development from the AMA, although the October devkit info is also intriguing. But this is seemingly indicating that, instead of a developer having to lock into 720p for handheld mode and 1080p for docked mode, they could choose to do 720p for both using the same clock speeds. This could be a way to get much more demanding games onto the system, as you essentially go from a 156GFLOPS* system to a 400GFLOPS* system by ignoring the portable mode clock speeds. This would also explain why a fan is necessary in the portable. Hopefully it's constructed well, since a fan running in a portable seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

*Still assuming 2SMs. October devkit info may indicate more?
 

Eolz

Member
Jun 1, 2014
10,193
20
475
The patent clearly allows for an ethernet connection to the dock, likely through a USB adapter, so that doesn't seem to be the reason. USB for everything seems a bit more convenient overall though, since you won't necessarily have any wasted ports if you don't want to use ethernet.
Forgot it was in the patent. Hopefully they'll make a dock with it.

I want Crystal Chronicle and Four Swords remakes damnit
GC VC!
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jan 29, 2008
36,153
3
0
Australia
The dock has no additional processing hardware. It's just a stabilised power supply. Thus, in theory, there's no reason a portable Switch couldn't run at docked speeds as the hardware is identical in both scenarios. The power draw however would hit the battery life hard.
 

Hermii

Member
Sep 17, 2012
6,983
0
0
In Laura's AMA on Reddit she seemed to hint that games can be played at the docked clock rates even when portable and not on any power supply:







Source

It may wind up being the developer's choice regarding whether or not each game does this. If you get 3 hours of battery life for a game which needs docked clock speeds even to render at 720p, then it seems like it's probably worth it to do so. 3 hours isn't all that bad.

EDIT: I think this the most interesting development from the AMA, although the October devkit info is also intriguing. But this is seemingly indicating that, instead of a developer having to lock into 720p for handheld mode and 1080p for docked mode, they could choose to do 720p for both using the same clock speeds. This could be a way to get much more demanding games onto the system, as you essentially go from a 156GFLOPS system to a 400GFLOPS system by ignoring the portable mode clock speeds. This would also explain why a fan is necessary in the portable. Hopefully it's constructed well, since a fan running in a portable seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
Seems like a very un Nintendo like decision to me so I dont know if I quite believe it. Does the game box say "3 hour battery" or "5 - 8 hour battery"?
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
The dock has no additional processing hardware. It's just a stabilised power supply. Thus, in theory, there's no reason a portable Switch couldn't run at docked speeds as the hardware is identical in both scenarios. The power draw however would hit the battery life hard.
If Laura's info is accurate this would mean about ~3 hours of battery life in that mode. Which seems pretty reasonable for this type of handheld, no?

Seems like a very un Nintendo like decision to me so I dont know if I quite believe it. Does the game box say "3 hour battery" or "5 - 8 hour battery"?
Does the box (game or hardware) ever say anything about battery life? Are there official numbers given for battery life for any of their previous handhelds?
 

NSESN

Member
Mar 18, 2015
5,499
0
0
IIRC the Eurogamer leak said something about the using the docked mode clocks undocked if the developer wanted, i will look this again later.
 

Xdrive05

Member
Nov 1, 2005
7,172
80
1,465
35
I really hope this rumor/leak/speculation is true about docked speeds being available in portable mode at developer discretion. The only downside would be that docked mode is less likely to "guarantee 1080p" if you will. But I would absolutely take the ability for devs to have 400gf as the absolute LCD for their game, and not also be required to have fully capable version running at 150 as well.

And if it can do 3 hours at 400gf then that's basically amazing in my opinion, and detractors should consider what they're asking of this device given the capabilities.

But the more pessimistic parts of me are still expecting the mandatory downclock in portable mode and getting 3 hours + at those speeds. Expectations, folks. Keep them in line. :)
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
Leaving it at developer's discretion would be a terrible move because then everyone will just target the higher power mode. It would make it harder for developers if they did want to target low power mode because then they'd get criticized for their game not looking/performing as good as competitors.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
Leaving it at developer's discretion would be a terrible move because then everyone will just target the higher power mode. It would make it harder for developers if they did want to target low power mode because then they'd get criticized for their game not looking/performing as good as competitors.
Right. If this is true it would probably be only Nintendo's first party developers taking advantage of the portable clock speed. It could be that her info about this is just from the previous devkits, and the new clock speed info comes with the "mandate" essentially that when portable, clock speeds have to be portable clock speed.
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
Right. If this is true it would probably be only Nintendo's first party developers taking advantage of the portable clock speed. It could be that her info about this is just from the previous devkits, and the new clock speed info comes with the "mandate" essentially that when portable, clock speeds have to be portable clock speed.
Yeah, if it portable clocks were mandated but users had the choice to manually override it that's one thing but allowing games to run only at the higher clocks sounds not good for consumers.
 

Hermii

Member
Sep 17, 2012
6,983
0
0
If Laura's info is accurate this would mean about ~3 hours of battery life in that mode. Which seems pretty reasonable for this type of handheld, no?



Does the box (game or hardware) ever say anything about battery life? Are there official numbers given for battery life for any of their previous handhelds?
None of their previous hardware has had game dependent variations to this degree. All previous hardware has only had one specified clock speed.
 

Xdrive05

Member
Nov 1, 2005
7,172
80
1,465
35
Leaving it at developer's discretion would be a terrible move because then everyone will just target the higher power mode. It would make it harder for developers if they did want to target low power mode because then they'd get criticized for their game not looking/performing as good as competitors.
And therein lies the debate. I can see both sides.

I think it comes down to how aggressively Nintendo is planning to court 3rd parties with Switch. I'm sure they would love the high clock baseline for their PS4/XBO ports. You know, checking off the tick box that says "and here is the low rent portable version of our PS4 game that's fairly comparable at 720p, satisfying the platform gimmick of console gaming on the go" - and doing nothing more.

Given Nintendo's history I'm inclined to think they'll force the lower clocks in portable mode and expect 3rd parties to deal with it.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
Yeah, if it portable clocks were mandated but users had the choice to manually override it that's one thing but allowing games to run only at the higher clocks sounds not good for consumers.
I don't think giving users the choice to override makes much sense. If the clock speed difference is primarily for achieving the 720p>1080p transition, then what do you really gain from choosing the higher clock speed? Slightly sharper IQ due to supersampling?
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
And therein lies the debate. I can see both sides.

I think it comes down to how aggressively Nintendo is planning to court 3rd parties with Switch. I'm sure they would love the high clock baseline for their PS4/XBO ports. You know, checking off the tick box that says "and here is the low rent portable version of our PS4 game that's fairly comparable at 720p, satisfying the platform gimmick of console gaming on the go" - and doing nothing more.

Given Nintendo's history I'm inclined to think they'll force the lower clocks in portable mode and expect 3rd parties to deal with it.
Ehh if anything Nintendo has a history of not enforcing platform features. Overall I don't think there would be much difference in developers willing to target 150gflops vs 400Gflops and I think it would be unwise to kneecap the platform unnecessarily.

I don't think giving users the choice to override makes much sense. If the clock speed difference is primarily for achieving the 720p>1080p transition, then what do you really gain from choosing the higher clock speed? Slightly sharper IQ due to supersampling?
Well we know at least that UE4 does more than drop the resolution. It also decreases the quality of the effects(and textures?).
 

lwilliams3

Member
Apr 10, 2007
2,528
0
875
Indiana
If Laura's info is accurate this would mean about ~3 hours of battery life in that mode. Which seems pretty reasonable for this type of handheld, no?



Does the box (game or hardware) ever say anything about battery life? Are there official numbers given for battery life for any of their previous handhelds?
I doubt Nintendo would do this for another reason. The increase of GPU power is mainly about rendering a game to a higher resolution (generally 720p to 1080p going by the ratio of change), so allowing that power in handheld mode will not allow it to be used that way. I guess there could a third option mode that allows the user to pick what gets modified in docked mode, but that gives devs more pressure and it sounds very un-Nintendo.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
Ehh if anything Nintendo has a history of not enforcing platform features. Overall I don't think there would be much difference in developers willing to target 150gflops vs 400Gflops and I think it would be unwise to kneecap the platform unnecessarily.
I do agree with this that it would definitely complicate the system. But it seems to be something which Laura heard, at least for some version of the devkit.

Well we know at least that UE4 does more than drop the resolution. It also decreases the quality of the effects(and textures?).
I think the majority of that 2.5x clock increase would be dedicated to the resolution though. So you'd get modest gains in effects, texture quality and post-processing, one would think.

I doubt Nintendo would do this for another reason. The increase of GPU power is mainly about rendering a game to a higher resolution (generally 720p to 1080p going by the ratio of change), so allowing that power in handheld mode will not allow it to be used that way. I guess there could a third option mode that allows the user to pick what gets modified in docked mode, but that gives devs more pressure and it sounds very un-Nintendo.
Well what I'm suggesting is that some developers can choose not to target the lower power mode at all, and just target the docked clock rates. This would mean their game would be the same resolution in both modes (likely 720p) and have the exact same visuals. This would decrease the work those developers need to do too, as they'd only have to target a single performance level.

Of course this would complicate things like battery life and when the fan is running, and overall seems to go counter to the whole purpose of the device, but it appears Laura heard something like this, at least for one of the devkit revisions.
 

Oregano

Member
Mar 13, 2013
12,412
3
0
It is worth noting that at one point we were told developers were only developing for one performance target. I can't remember exactly when/where but I remember someone saying that.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
1
0
It is worth noting that at one point we were told developers were only developing for one performance target. I can't remember exactly when/where but I remember someone saying that.
I think that was lherre, who said he hadn't heard of separate performance targets.

I remember specifically because I was having trouble figuring out if his user name was with a lowercase L or an upper case I until I copy/pasted it into google haha
 
Jun 27, 2015
12,542
1
345
Given Nintendo's history I'm inclined to think they'll force the lower clocks in portable mode and expect 3rd parties to deal with it.
What history? You're talking like Nintendo is still run by Yamauchi, where they intentionally gimped 3rd parties to maintain their own game's superiority. Nintendo didn't mandate 3rd parties use the wiimote, or 3D on that 3DS and even had a high RAM mode they could activate. They have no recent history that would suggest what you're saying
 

ecosse_011172

Junior Member
Jul 20, 2007
1,382
9
0
Not in 2001, not in 2006, not in 2012, why would it be there in 2017? "After a dozen years of solid wi-fi use, it's important we add ethernet to our new non-stationary console."?
I hope it would be in the dock, i.e. the stationery console now that they're using some modern tech.
They've saved that 5 cents per unit I suppose.
 
Sep 25, 2016
1,744
52
280
EDIT: I think this the most interesting development from the AMA, although the October devkit info is also intriguing. But this is seemingly indicating that, instead of a developer having to lock into 720p for handheld mode and 1080p for docked mode, they could choose to do 720p for both using the same clock speeds. This could be a way to get much more demanding games onto the system, as you essentially go from a 156GFLOPS* system to a 400GFLOPS* system by ignoring the portable mode clock speeds. This would also explain why a fan is necessary in the portable. Hopefully it's constructed well, since a fan running in a portable seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
I think we'll see a lot of the more demanding third party games render at 720p in docked mode.
 

Donnie

Member
Mar 24, 2005
2,858
18
1,265
What needs 3SM to make sense? While there's still some room for speculation all seems quite explicable without resorting to a conspiracy "there is more secret power inside" theory.

Fan thermal solution can be attributed to fab node, or the simple fact that all cpu cores and gpu working at full load for long periods of time requires it even at those clocks.

In the case of the audible fan in dev kits as someone pointed earlier that doesn't imply that was overclocked by itself.
It won't though, simple as that, not at the rumoured handheld clocks.

Also nothing magical or conspiratory about a different SM config in a custom chip either.
 

Bluth54

Member
Feb 5, 2008
8,049
0
0
Not in 2001, not in 2006, not in 2012, why would it be there in 2017? "After a dozen years of solid wi-fi use, it's important we add ethernet to our new non-stationary console."?
I don't think it's crazy to want an Internet connection with lower latency, faster internet connection that isn't susceptible to interference to be built into the Switch dock. I guess I'll just have to keep using the ugly USB Ethernet adapter I got for my Wii so Nintendo can save a little bit of money.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.