is the information in the OP considered credible/reputable? Debating whether to add it to my compilation thread.
No, it is not.
is the information in the OP considered credible/reputable? Debating whether to add it to my compilation thread.
Specs regarding GPU/CPU don't really impact price nearly as much as everyone thinks. The most expensive parts of typical consoles are the optical drives and the hard drives*, so it's not surprising (to me anyway) that the Switch will have a relatively low launch price. Solid state storage is a big pricing factor though, as is (I believe) RAM. So a low launch price might suggest less storage (like the rumored 32GB) and less RAM (like the rumored 4GB).
But I don't think we can glean any GPU/CPU info from pricing.
*Edit: I'm not 100% sure about the above, though that's the conclusion based on things I've read regarding BoM on most consoles.
The source of the info in the OP is not credible considering that previously she stated that Nvidia isn't involved.
No, it is not.
One of cheapest parts
What I mean is that the pricing difference between relatively high powered GPU/CPU and relatively low powered GPU/CPU isn't very big at all. If the Switch had, say, a GPU more powerful than the PS4 I wouldn't suddenly expect it to be $50 more expensive.
Err... I never said the CPU/GPU were cheap, though I guess saying the hard drive/optical drive were the most expensive sorta implied that.
What I mean is that the pricing difference between relatively high powered GPU/CPU and relatively low powered GPU/CPU isn't very big at all. If the Switch had, say, a GPU more powerful than the PS4 I wouldn't suddenly expect it to be $50 more expensive.
In the context of the quote I responded to (does rumored pricing give any weight to GPU/CPU specs) I still think it's accurate that rumored pricing does not impact what we should expect in those terms.
Sorry if my post was misleading, this is all I meant.
Depends on what you're comparing in terms of die size. PS4/XO APUs are ~350mm^2, whereas most mobile chips tend to be well below 150mm^2.
Apple
A9 is ~100mm^2
A9X is ~150mm^2 (upper bound example)
You're essentially getting 2-3x the number of chips per wafer (assuming similar yields).
is the information in the OP considered credible/reputable? Debating whether to add it to my compilation thread.
Credible, at least for some iteration of the dev kits anyway.
Edit
Maybe I am behind here, but I was under the impression that this info had been somewhat corroborated on here?
This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..
Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.
32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.
Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.
32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.
Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
Credible, at least for some iteration of the dev kits anyway.
Edit
Maybe I am behind here, but I was under the impression that this info had been somewhat corroborated on here?
Most games aren't over 10 gigabytes, let alone have patches that large. Most gamers don't go beyond a dozen games for the lifetime of a machine. Most people don't go 100% digital. It's a problem, but for a pretty small group--though a group throwing a lot of money around, true enough.Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.
32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.
Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
This is dependent on the manufacturing process, though. PS4 and XBO are ~350mm² on a 28nm process, but the PS4 Slim and XBO S should be quite a bit smaller on 16nm (I haven't been able to find measurements, but I would assume around 200-250mm²?). Although I'm sure the PS4 Pro SoC is still pretty large on 16nm.
Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.
32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.
Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..
This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..
The following comes from Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang...
- architecture of the Tegra chip powering the Switch is similar to whats inside of PS4/Xbox One and even PCs
- this should enable developers to build games that can quickly shift from one platform to another
- this includes games that originate on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 to Switch
- all of these architectures are common in the sense that they all use modern GPUs
- they all use programmable shading, and they all have basically similar features
- processors will vary in design and capabilities, but they still all use a common architectural language
- game developers can target a much larger installed base with one common code base
The following comes from Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang...
- architecture of the Tegra chip powering the Switch is similar to whats inside of PS4/Xbox One and even PCs
- this should enable developers to build games that can quickly shift from one platform to another
- this includes games that originate on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 to Switch
- all of these architectures are common in the sense that they all use modern GPUs
- they all use programmable shading, and they all have basically similar features
- processors will vary in design and capabilities, but they still all use a common architectural language
- game developers can target a much larger installed base with one common code base
They've seriously designed the hell out of this to make it as easy as possible for third parties, while also maintaining the USP of being able to take it with you.
This could be one of those Gamecube-style technological marvels.
I think everyone knows this is not going to be the system with the next Battlefield, Red Dead and etc. Switch is going to have all of Nintendo's developers that make games on 3DS and Wii U on one system. A combined 3DS and Wii U library of games support from Nintendo and Japanese developers and occasional support from western developers. As well as indie support. And cheap price of $250 launch price. Nintendo is going for a different market. If you want a powerhouse with all the AAA multiplatform games perhaps stick to the PS4 or Xbox One.
I got a 256GB SD Card on Ebay the other day for $65. Lots of people got them for free with a Galaxy S7 and are blowing them out online.
Most games aren't over 10 gigabytes, let alone have patches that large. Most gamers don't go beyond a dozen games for the lifetime of a machine. Most people don't go 100% digital. It's a problem, but for a pretty small group--though a group throwing a lot of money around, true enough.
I think everyone knows this is not going to be the system with the next Battlefield, Red Dead and etc. Switch is going to have all of Nintendo's developers that make games on 3DS and Wii U on one system. A combined 3DS and Wii U library of games support from Nintendo and Japanese developers and occasional support from western developers. As well as indie support. And cheap price of $250 launch price. Nintendo is going for a different market. If you want a powerhouse with all the AAA multiplatform games perhaps stick to the PS4 or Xbox One.
I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.
Doesn't Frostbite work on the ARM architecture?I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.
Well by showing SkyRim, Nintendo are, yet again trying to sell you on the idea that it will have the big AAA games.
Switch is MicroSD but sure the price will come down. However does it not fuck you off that you pay another 25% on top of the console just to have sub standard storage on your device. They did this with Wii U. By the time you got an HDD you ended up paying as much as a PS4.
Lots of games are over that size, especially AAA games and digital is growing more and more. 32GB of storage sucks and having to pay 25+% on top of the console to get even mediocre storage is just bait-and-switch IMO.
When was this said?EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.
I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.
Switch is MicroSD but sure the price will come down. However does it not fuck you off that you pay another 25% on top of the console just to have sub standard storage on your device. They did this with Wii U. By the time you got an HDD you ended up paying as much as a PS4.
Doesn't Frostbite work on the ARM architecture?
EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.
For one, it's also acting as a screen protector.Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?
I mean that thing is pretty chunky to simply have those functions. I know we've speculated that the fan is likely inside of the Switch tablet itself because of the cutouts in the car peripheral (likely for the vents) and the cutout in the back of the dock. Am I simply wrong and a few USB slots and an HDMI port actually do take up a good amount of space?
For one, it's also acting as a screen protector.
Please don't let it be. Ide rather not see them say "well our games done sell on it" after releasing a months late rushed port for launch. Let them build something from the ground up and release it at the same time as it releases in other systems
Please don't let it be. Ide rather not see them say "well our games done sell on it" after releasing a months late rushed port for launch. Let them build something from the ground up and release it at the same time as it releases in other systems
Flash storage has a cost though, and that would be quite likely on consumer's behalf given recent and not-so-recent statements by Nintendo regarding the desire to not sell below cost.Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?
I mean that thing is pretty chunky to simply have those functions. I know we've speculated that the fan is likely inside of the Switch tablet itself because of the cutouts in the car peripheral (likely for the vents) and the cutout in the back of the dock. Am I simply wrong and a few USB slots and an HDMI port actually do take up a good amount of space?
It's been speculated that the fan is actually within the dock and not the Switch itself. The cutouts/vents in the Switch could be used for convection cooling when not docked, which is still a decent way to provide passive cooling. Then, when docked the fan in the dock can run and provide active cooling to allow the Switch to clock higher.
The other reason I'd say is for stability. If this needs to stand up like that to allow the top of the Switch to act as an IR sensor bar then it needs some sort of width and thickness to allow it to stay stable.
Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.
32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.
Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.
Were there any vents on the bottom of the switch? I only saw ones at the top?
One thing to take note of is that Nintendo was very very cautious with how they presented the Switch. IMO they purposefully had it dock into something that would hide the screen so that it wouldn't be confused with the Wii U. The made sure to show exactly how they expected it to be used which is docked with another controller or off the dock with the Joy Cons.
It's been speculated that the fan is actually within the dock and not the Switch itself. The cutouts/vents in the Switch could be used for convection cooling when not docked, which is still a decent way to provide passive cooling. Then, when docked the fan in the dock can run and provide active cooling to allow the Switch to clock higher.
The other reason I'd say is for stability. If this needs to stand up like that to allow the top of the Switch to act as an IR sensor bar then it needs some sort of width and thickness to allow it to stay stable.
That's a tough direction to speculate in, imo.
For one. It would be a bit risky not putting a fan inside the main unit. This thing will be very powerful by mobile standards, and even if it can go for a while being passively cooled only, this thing will get warm when pushed over a period of time. What happen when it's already very humid outside? How much less effective will passive cooling be?. My laptop runs relatively cool, but during such days, it's significantly hotter and the fan runs longer and louder. I'd imagine it would be wise to have a fan in the main unit, even if it's only engaged on very rare occasions, and regardless to wether the dock has one also.
The second point - which stands out to me more - is the design of the dock and the main console. The vents on the console are at the top(possibly at bottom too), and for the dock to provide cooling, it would have to drive/channel air upward through the main console. The design of the dock isn't very optimal for that. The "best" way to cool, given the current form factor, would be to have the (tiny?) fans in the base of the dock pushing air upward. But it's already sitting on the base, which would blocks air intake. You could have a huge fan in back half of the dock(which seems to have an opening but no visible vents), but then they'd need to engineer a shaft that propels air downward, around the base, then back up into the main unit. Seems like a lot of over engineering when they could just place a fan in the main unit, and run it at full speed when docked.
Also, I'm on mobile now and dont know if it was noted before, and cant immediately get a pic or tag the moment in the video, but there was one scene in the reveal trailer(iirc, it was right when the woman went to "undock" the Mario game), where you actually see between the dock, and, other than a 'connection mechanism,' nothing that resembles a channel for airflow can be seen. If the dock does house a fan, it would most likely be for its own internals, and warm air can easily be expelled out the back. Well, that's my take on it, anyway.
At this point I think it's just a design decision. I was expecting something much closer to the Wii U Gamepad's dock, but they seem to want to make it look more substantial. Something that can sit sturdily and doesn't leave (most of) the screen exposed. It seems like covering the screen is also going out of their way to show "This is not Wii U! Don't look here when it's docked, you won't see anything extra!"Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?
I should have said that it's been speculated that the fan could be in the dock. Right now there's no way to know for sure.
But for the first problem, I think Nintendo is planning to downclock the SoC fairly heavily in portable mode. That can get them a maximum of 512Gflops or so assuming Pascal/16nm architecture, though it may wind up even lower than that depending on how low they want to go. Either way, active cooling may not be necessary at such low clock rates/power draw, though certainly that's nothing we can know for sure now.
As for the design, I think the way it's designed makes perfect sense if the fan is in the dock. The dock has an air intake in the back which can be connected to an internal fan that blows air into the slits in the back of the Switch tablet, and up through the internals and finally out through the vents at the top of the tablet. That would solve the problem of having a moving part (fan) inside a portable device (tablet) which is typically a relatively common point of failure.
That's what I meant. I got a 256GB Micro SD card for $65.
Paying for storage doesn't bother me. I have the option to buy carts if I want, and other people shouldn't have to pay extra for my decision to go digital, especially if Nintendo is aiming for mass market pricing. Storage in a tablet form factor gets expensive in a hurry.
Flash storage has a cost though, and that would be quite likely on consumer's behalf given recent and not-so-recent statements by Nintendo regarding the desire to not sell below cost.
I'd argue an higher price would do more harm than good to the Switch, I believe they should keep the MSRP as low as possible instead.
I don't think half a gig will be a problem
Assuming you're talking about half a terabyte, though, how do you actually expect them to achieve that? HDDs are too big, 2.5" SSDs are too big, m.2 SSDs draw too much power. Nintendo's only realistic storage options are eMMC and UFS. eMMC comes in sizes up to 128GB, and UFS comes in sizes up to 256GB. That's what they've got to choose between.
It's not as if cost isn't an issue, either. A 256GB UFS chip probably costs Nintendo somewhere around $30-$40, which is the difference between a $199 machine and a $249 machine. Given that two-thirds of game purchases are still physical (a ratio that may be even higher for Nintendo) it seems reasonable enough that they would choose to offer a cheaper model with enough storage for patches and the occasional eShop game, and a more expensive model with a higher storage capacity. Which seems to be exactly what they're doing (and throwing a game in with the more expensive model to boot).
That's not to say I wouldn't like them to use 256GB of UFS as standard and somehow manage to keep the price below €250, but it's worth keeping our expectations in the realm of the technologically and financially possible.