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[Thraktor]

is the information in the OP considered credible/reputable? Debating whether to add it to my compilation thread.

No, it is not.

 

[Camoxide]

Specs regarding GPU/CPU don't really impact price nearly as much as everyone thinks. The most expensive parts of typical consoles are the optical drives and the hard drives*, so it's not surprising (to me anyway) that the Switch will have a relatively low launch price. Solid state storage is a big pricing factor though, as is (I believe) RAM. So a low launch price might suggest less storage (like the rumored 32GB) and less RAM (like the rumored 4GB).

But I don't think we can glean any GPU/CPU info from pricing.

*Edit: I'm not 100% sure about the above, though that's the conclusion based on things I've read regarding BoM on most consoles.

One of cheapest parts

 

[maxcriden]

The source of the info in the OP is not credible considering that previously she stated that Nvidia isn't involved.

No, it is not.

Thank you both!

 

[Skittzo0413]

One of cheapest parts

Err... I never said the CPU/GPU were cheap, though I guess saying the hard drive/optical drive were the most expensive sorta implied that.

What I mean is that the pricing difference between relatively high powered GPU/CPU and relatively low powered GPU/CPU isn't very big at all. If the Switch had, say, a GPU more powerful than the PS4 I wouldn't suddenly expect it to be $50 more expensive.

In the context of the quote I responded to (does rumored pricing give any weight to GPU/CPU specs) I still think it's accurate that rumored pricing does not impact what we should expect in those terms.

Sorry if my post was misleading, this is all I meant.

 

[AlStrong]

What I mean is that the pricing difference between relatively high powered GPU/CPU and relatively low powered GPU/CPU isn't very big at all. If the Switch had, say, a GPU more powerful than the PS4 I wouldn't suddenly expect it to be $50 more expensive.

Depends on what you're comparing in terms of die size. PS4/XO APUs are ~350mm^2, whereas most mobile chips tend to be well below 150mm^2.

Apple
A9 is ~100mm^2
A9X is ~150mm^2 (upper bound example)

You're essentially getting 2-3x the number of chips per wafer (assuming similar yields).

 

[Aroll]

Err... I never said the CPU/GPU were cheap, though I guess saying the hard drive/optical drive were the most expensive sorta implied that.

What I mean is that the pricing difference between relatively high powered GPU/CPU and relatively low powered GPU/CPU isn't very big at all. If the Switch had, say, a GPU more powerful than the PS4 I wouldn't suddenly expect it to be $50 more expensive.

In the context of the quote I responded to (does rumored pricing give any weight to GPU/CPU specs) I still think it's accurate that rumored pricing does not impact what we should expect in those terms.

Sorry if my post was misleading, this is all I meant.

I understood what you meant. Say cpu/GPU is total $100 the cost of the system. With no optical drive (-$66) and a lower capacity HDD (say, cut the PS4 HDD in half, factoring in slightly higher costs on SD storage), and less ram (cut os4 costs in half), and suddenly your releasing something that is on par or better than the PS4 that costs significantly less.

Of course for this toy hve to add in the cost of the screen.

But it's not far fetched to say money saved on those parts gives them more wiggle room for power compared to cost.

 

[Thraktor]

Depends on what you're comparing in terms of die size. PS4/XO APUs are ~350mm^2, whereas most mobile chips tend to be well below 150mm^2.

Apple
A9 is ~100mm^2
A9X is ~150mm^2 (upper bound example)

You're essentially getting 2-3x the number of chips per wafer (assuming similar yields).

This is dependent on the manufacturing process, though. PS4 and XBO are ~350mm² on a 28nm process, but the PS4 Slim and XBO S should be quite a bit smaller on 16nm (I haven't been able to find measurements, but I would assume around 200-250mm²?). Although I'm sure the PS4 Pro SoC is still pretty large on 16nm.

 

[Instro]

is the information in the OP considered credible/reputable? Debating whether to add it to my compilation thread.

Credible, at least for some iteration of the dev kits anyway.

Edit

Maybe I am behind here, but I was under the impression that this info had been somewhat corroborated on here?

 

[Thraktor]

Credible, at least for some iteration of the dev kits anyway.

Edit

Maybe I am behind here, but I was under the impression that this info had been somewhat corroborated on here?

We have been told months ago by reliable sources that Nintendo were using the Tegra X1 in early dev kits, and the Twitter user quoted in the OP has simply copy and pasted some specs from the Tegra X1. There's no reason to believe they have any insider information (only a couple of weeks prior they insisted that Nintendo wouldn't be using Nvidia hardware), and if anyone were compiling a list of info from reputable sources they should use the original Eurogamer leak, not this Twitter user.

 

[AzaK]

This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

 

[Ninja Dom]

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

Dude, you're full of the Nintendo negativity in your responses in different threads.

 

[KAL2006]

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

I think everyone knows this is not going to be the system with the next Battlefield, Red Dead and etc. Switch is going to have all of Nintendo's developers that make games on 3DS and Wii U on one system. A combined 3DS and Wii U library of games support from Nintendo and Japanese developers and occasional support from western developers. As well as indie support. And cheap price of $250 launch price. Nintendo is going for a different market. If you want a powerhouse with all the AAA multiplatform games perhaps stick to the PS4 or Xbox One.

 

[KingSnake]

Credible, at least for some iteration of the dev kits anyway.

Edit

Maybe I am behind here, but I was under the impression that this info had been somewhat corroborated on here?

It was corroborated by an "insider" who wasn't such an insider after all (as in "I talked to the mods but about something else than vetting me, as I let you initially believe") who kind of disappeared from the hardware threads once it was questioned more in deep about his sources.

So yeah, not confirmed from any reliable source.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

Most games aren't over 10 gigabytes, let alone have patches that large. Most gamers don't go beyond a dozen games for the lifetime of a machine. Most people don't go 100% digital. It's a problem, but for a pretty small group--though a group throwing a lot of money around, true enough.

 

[AlStrong]

This is dependent on the manufacturing process, though. PS4 and XBO are ~350mm² on a 28nm process, but the PS4 Slim and XBO S should be quite a bit smaller on 16nm (I haven't been able to find measurements, but I would assume around 200-250mm²?). Although I'm sure the PS4 Pro SoC is still pretty large on 16nm.

Sure, there's a premium for using the latest node.

The Xbox Slim chip is 240mm^2, so it's still going to be around 2x the size of mobile phone chips.

 

[Schnozberry]

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

I got a 256GB SD Card on Ebay the other day for $65. Lots of people got them for free with a Galaxy S7 and are blowing them out online.

 

[7roject28]

This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..

Yeah, all you really need is enough for the OS and some overhead. Then games on SD cards and the cartridge. I guess basically just like how the 3DS is.

 

[rockyt]

This is not an Apple device nor even a Sony one; it comes with a slot for external memory, and that's a MicroSD one. You will be fine with built-in 32GB storage. Jeez..

Not to mention they got 1T SD cards coming out this year. Man SD cards have come a long way and fast.

 

[th3sicknness]

If the switch is marginally better than the Wii U I don't see the games weighing in at 15+ gigs.. Most first Party Nintendo titles were sub 10 gigs and the third party games were less than 15 gigs.

I think people would be happy with 64 gigs as the standard storage size with the option to expand with SD cards.

 

[Joegrine_TT]

The following comes from Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang...

- architecture of the Tegra chip powering the Switch is similar to what’s inside of PS4/Xbox One and even PCs
- this should enable developers to build games that can quickly shift from one platform to another
- this includes games that originate on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 to Switch
- all of these architectures are common in the sense that they all use modern GPUs
- they all use programmable shading, and they all have basically similar features
- processors will vary in design and capabilities, but they still all use a common architectural language
- game developers can target a much larger installed base with one common code base

 

[Peltz]

The following comes from Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang...

- architecture of the Tegra chip powering the Switch is similar to what’s inside of PS4/Xbox One and even PCs
- this should enable developers to build games that can quickly shift from one platform to another
- this includes games that originate on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 to Switch
- all of these architectures are common in the sense that they all use modern GPUs
- they all use programmable shading, and they all have basically similar features
- processors will vary in design and capabilities, but they still all use a common architectural language
- game developers can target a much larger installed base with one common code base

We knew all this before, but it's good to get it from an official source.

 

[MCN]

The following comes from Nvidia CEO Jen-Hsun Huang...

- architecture of the Tegra chip powering the Switch is similar to what’s inside of PS4/Xbox One and even PCs
- this should enable developers to build games that can quickly shift from one platform to another
- this includes games that originate on PC, Xbox One, and PS4 to Switch
- all of these architectures are common in the sense that they all use modern GPUs
- they all use programmable shading, and they all have basically similar features
- processors will vary in design and capabilities, but they still all use a common architectural language
- game developers can target a much larger installed base with one common code base

They've seriously designed the hell out of this to make it as easy as possible for third parties, while also maintaining the USP of being able to take it with you.

This could be one of those Gamecube-style technological marvels.

 

[Skittzo0413]

They've seriously designed the hell out of this to make it as easy as possible for third parties, while also maintaining the USP of being able to take it with you.

This could be one of those Gamecube-style technological marvels.

Last time Nintendo opted to use a new architecture was...

The Gamecube! So yeah, hopefully this is an amazing little marvel of engineering just like it was.

Spoiler

And has way better sales numbers.

 

[AzaK]

I think everyone knows this is not going to be the system with the next Battlefield, Red Dead and etc. Switch is going to have all of Nintendo's developers that make games on 3DS and Wii U on one system. A combined 3DS and Wii U library of games support from Nintendo and Japanese developers and occasional support from western developers. As well as indie support. And cheap price of $250 launch price. Nintendo is going for a different market. If you want a powerhouse with all the AAA multiplatform games perhaps stick to the PS4 or Xbox One.

Well by showing SkyRim, Nintendo are, yet again trying to sell you on the idea that it will have the big AAA games.

I got a 256GB SD Card on Ebay the other day for $65. Lots of people got them for free with a Galaxy S7 and are blowing them out online.

Switch is MicroSD but sure the price will come down. However does it not fuck you off that you pay another 25% on top of the console just to have sub standard storage on your device. They did this with Wii U. By the time you got an HDD you ended up paying as much as a PS4.

Most games aren't over 10 gigabytes, let alone have patches that large. Most gamers don't go beyond a dozen games for the lifetime of a machine. Most people don't go 100% digital. It's a problem, but for a pretty small group--though a group throwing a lot of money around, true enough.

Lots of games are over that size, especially AAA games and digital is growing more and more. 32GB of storage sucks and having to pay 25+% on top of the console to get even mediocre storage is just bait-and-switch IMO.

 

[Roo]

Oh God, enough already...

 

[ShadowFox08]

I think everyone knows this is not going to be the system with the next Battlefield, Red Dead and etc. Switch is going to have all of Nintendo's developers that make games on 3DS and Wii U on one system. A combined 3DS and Wii U library of games support from Nintendo and Japanese developers and occasional support from western developers. As well as indie support. And cheap price of $250 launch price. Nintendo is going for a different market. If you want a powerhouse with all the AAA multiplatform games perhaps stick to the PS4 or Xbox One.

EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.

I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.

 

[Neoxon]

I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.

Doesn't Frostbite work on the ARM architecture?

 

[lwilliams3]

Well by showing SkyRim, Nintendo are, yet again trying to sell you on the idea that it will have the big AAA games.



Switch is MicroSD but sure the price will come down. However does it not fuck you off that you pay another 25% on top of the console just to have sub standard storage on your device. They did this with Wii U. By the time you got an HDD you ended up paying as much as a PS4.



Lots of games are over that size, especially AAA games and digital is growing more and more. 32GB of storage sucks and having to pay 25+% on top of the console to get even mediocre storage is just bait-and-switch IMO.

It's a portable device that will likely be under $300, though. Huge amount of memory for SSD or MicroSD just isn't cheap compared to HHD.

EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.

When was this said?

 

[JB2448]

When was this said?

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ea-teases-nintendo-switch-plans-says-its-bringing-/1100-6445444/

 

[ShadowFox08]

I wonder if they're talking about their sports titles. Making it work in a mobile platform is hard for me to imagine. If it were possible, we'd see a lot more 'AAA' games also coming to mobile. There are mobile versions of other games like Madden, though.

Its possible. Hope its not Madden or that sports games shown on the mini reveal.

I'm more certain that Activision will get a CoD game out at Switch's launch.. EA totally should too honestly. Shouldn't cost a ton to port it over.

 

[BuggyMike]

Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?

I mean that thing is pretty chunky to simply have those functions. I know we've speculated that the fan is likely inside of the Switch tablet itself because of the cutouts in the car peripheral (likely for the vents) and the cutout in the back of the dock. Am I simply wrong and a few USB slots and an HDMI port actually do take up a good amount of space?

 

[Schnozberry]

Switch is MicroSD but sure the price will come down. However does it not fuck you off that you pay another 25% on top of the console just to have sub standard storage on your device. They did this with Wii U. By the time you got an HDD you ended up paying as much as a PS4.

That's what I meant. I got a 256GB Micro SD card for $65.

Paying for storage doesn't bother me. I have the option to buy carts if I want, and other people shouldn't have to pay extra for my decision to go digital, especially if Nintendo is aiming for mass market pricing. Storage in a tablet form factor gets expensive in a hurry.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Doesn't Frostbite work on the ARM architecture?

there's more to a game than just the engine it's on. Not sure what the final count for BF1 will be, but BF4 had over 40GB in DLC+patches alone. Wouldn't be good to require gamers to hot swap SD Cards for different games. Then you got to think about how far back you can scale the assets and overall experience before you turn off fans of those games and build a reputation as the machine with portable ersatz ports.

Madden could probably keep the experience more consistent in a portable version.

 

[bomblord1]

EA said one of their bigger games is coming to the Switch. I'd actually be a little surprised if Battlefield One wasn't that game.

Please don't let it be. Ide rather not see them say "well our games done sell on it" after releasing a months late rushed port for launch. Let them build something from the ground up and release it at the same time as it releases in other systems

 

[rekameohs]

Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?

I mean that thing is pretty chunky to simply have those functions. I know we've speculated that the fan is likely inside of the Switch tablet itself because of the cutouts in the car peripheral (likely for the vents) and the cutout in the back of the dock. Am I simply wrong and a few USB slots and an HDMI port actually do take up a good amount of space?

For one, it's also acting as a screen protector.

 

[BuggyMike]

For one, it's also acting as a screen protector.

Good point, the front portion definitely adds quite a lot to the overall size. I should have specified though that I was mainly focusing on how thick the back part of the dock is. Would a few USB slots an an HDMI make for such a thick back end, or is there a chance that the fan is actually in the dock? I guess there is the possibility that the power supply could be internal, and the dock will only need a simple wall plug with no power brick?

 

[Clessidor]

I wouldn't be surprised if the dock's size and thigness is mostly used as a blender to give customers a reason why Switch costs slightly more than a handheld. Or just to give customers the home console feeling.

 

[ShadowFox08]

Please don't let it be. Ide rather not see them say "well our games done sell on it" after releasing a months late rushed port for launch. Let them build something from the ground up and release it at the same time as it releases in other systems

Sure I'd like some kind of simultaneous release..
It would't hurt at all to get a AAA party 3rd party onlline multiplayer game like Battlefield One on the Switch. It will only help. If it makes a profit, then it opens the door for more EA support. Might as well release the best selling game first.

 

[EDarkness]

Please don't let it be. Ide rather not see them say "well our games done sell on it" after releasing a months late rushed port for launch. Let them build something from the ground up and release it at the same time as it releases in other systems

I would be all over a Battlefield 1 with IR aiming. I hope this happens.

 

[Turrican3]

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

Flash storage has a cost though, and that would be quite likely on consumer's behalf given recent and not-so-recent statements by Nintendo regarding the desire to not sell below cost.

I'd argue an higher price would do more harm than good to the Switch, I believe they should keep the MSRP as low as possible instead.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?

I mean that thing is pretty chunky to simply have those functions. I know we've speculated that the fan is likely inside of the Switch tablet itself because of the cutouts in the car peripheral (likely for the vents) and the cutout in the back of the dock. Am I simply wrong and a few USB slots and an HDMI port actually do take up a good amount of space?

It's been speculated that the fan is actually within the dock and not the Switch itself. The cutouts/vents in the Switch could be used for convection cooling when not docked, which is still a decent way to provide passive cooling. Then, when docked the fan in the dock can run and provide active cooling to allow the Switch to clock higher.

The other reason I'd say is for stability. If this needs to stand up like that to allow the top of the Switch to act as an IR sensor bar then it needs some sort of width and thickness to allow it to stay stable.

 

[th3sicknness]

It's been speculated that the fan is actually within the dock and not the Switch itself. The cutouts/vents in the Switch could be used for convection cooling when not docked, which is still a decent way to provide passive cooling. Then, when docked the fan in the dock can run and provide active cooling to allow the Switch to clock higher.

The other reason I'd say is for stability. If this needs to stand up like that to allow the top of the Switch to act as an IR sensor bar then it needs some sort of width and thickness to allow it to stay stable.

Were there any vents on the bottom of the switch? I only saw ones at the top?

One thing to take note of is that Nintendo was very very cautious with how they presented the Switch. IMO they purposefully had it dock into something that would hide the screen so that it wouldn't be confused with the Wii U. The made sure to show exactly how they expected it to be used which is docked with another controller or off the dock with the Joy Cons.

 

[Thraktor]

Not if this is a console that will support AAA games and their patches. A 256GB SD card is about $200 but you're going to need that and more if you want to download digital AAA games or install 10+GB patches for those games.

32GB is basically saying to people that this is just a handheld machine with small handheld sizes games. When that story starts going around it will not bode well for the switch in the long run. You'll get a bunch of hh games being OK with it, but the console gamers will just piss off. Then you'll see publishers disappear because noone's buying their big games on it.

Basically, less than probably 1/2 a gig is killing the machine out of the gate for the core AAA gamers and publishers.

I don't think half a gig will be a problem

Assuming you're talking about half a terabyte, though, how do you actually expect them to achieve that? HDDs are too big, 2.5" SSDs are too big, m.2 SSDs draw too much power. Nintendo's only realistic storage options are eMMC and UFS. eMMC comes in sizes up to 128GB, and UFS comes in sizes up to 256GB. That's what they've got to choose between.

It's not as if cost isn't an issue, either. A 256GB UFS chip probably costs Nintendo somewhere around $30-$40, which is the difference between a $199 machine and a $249 machine. Given that two-thirds of game purchases are still physical (a ratio that may be even higher for Nintendo) it seems reasonable enough that they would choose to offer a cheaper model with enough storage for patches and the occasional eShop game, and a more expensive model with a higher storage capacity. Which seems to be exactly what they're doing (and throwing a game in with the more expensive model to boot).

That's not to say I wouldn't like them to use 256GB of UFS as standard and somehow manage to keep the price below €250, but it's worth keeping our expectations in the realm of the technologically and financially possible.

 

[MrNineties]

Were there any vents on the bottom of the switch? I only saw ones at the top?

One thing to take note of is that Nintendo was very very cautious with how they presented the Switch. IMO they purposefully had it dock into something that would hide the screen so that it wouldn't be confused with the Wii U. The made sure to show exactly how they expected it to be used which is docked with another controller or off the dock with the Joy Cons.

Further to this, everyone should watch YongYea's Hidden Features video. He notices things in the reveal trailer that I, and many others, missed completely. The reason I make reference in this instance is when we see the players in the van playing MK there are cutouts in the seat mount that match the perforated zones on the back of the Switch console. Speculation is that those are air intakes. This may also partly explain the cut-out in the home dock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UclI--l7jfs

 

[OryoN]

It's been speculated that the fan is actually within the dock and not the Switch itself. The cutouts/vents in the Switch could be used for convection cooling when not docked, which is still a decent way to provide passive cooling. Then, when docked the fan in the dock can run and provide active cooling to allow the Switch to clock higher.

The other reason I'd say is for stability. If this needs to stand up like that to allow the top of the Switch to act as an IR sensor bar then it needs some sort of width and thickness to allow it to stay stable.

That's a tough direction to speculate in, imo.
For one. It would be a bit risky not putting a fan inside the main unit. This thing will be very powerful by mobile standards, and even if it can go for a while being passively cooled only, this thing will get warm when pushed over a period of time. What happen when it's already very humid outside? How much less effective will passive cooling be?. My laptop runs relatively cool, but during such days, it's significantly hotter and the fan runs longer and louder. I'd imagine it would be wise to have a fan in the main unit, even if it's only engaged on very rare occasions, and regardless to wether the dock has one also.

The second point - which stands out to me more - is the design of the dock and the main console. The vents on the console are at the top(possibly at bottom too), and for the dock to provide cooling, it would have to drive/channel air upward through the main console. The design of the dock isn't very optimal for that. The "best" way to cool, given the current form factor, would be to have the (tiny?) fans in the base of the dock pushing air upward. But it's already sitting on the base, which would blocks air intake. You could have a huge fan in back half of the dock(which seems to have an opening but no visible vents), but then they'd need to engineer a shaft that propels air downward, around the base, then back up into the main unit. Seems like a lot of over engineering when they could just place a fan in the main unit, and run it at full speed when docked.

Also, I'm on mobile now and dont know if it was noted before, and cant immediately get a pic or tag the moment in the video, but there was one scene in the reveal trailer(iirc, it was right when the woman went to "undock" the Mario game), where you actually see between the dock, and, other than a 'connection mechanism,' nothing that resembles a channel for airflow can be seen. If the dock does house a fan, it would most likely be for its own internals, and warm air can easily be expelled out the back. Well, that's my take on it, anyway.

 

[Skittzo0413]

That's a tough direction to speculate in, imo.
For one. It would be a bit risky not putting a fan inside the main unit. This thing will be very powerful by mobile standards, and even if it can go for a while being passively cooled only, this thing will get warm when pushed over a period of time. What happen when it's already very humid outside? How much less effective will passive cooling be?. My laptop runs relatively cool, but during such days, it's significantly hotter and the fan runs longer and louder. I'd imagine it would be wise to have a fan in the main unit, even if it's only engaged on very rare occasions, and regardless to wether the dock has one also.

The second point - which stands out to me more - is the design of the dock and the main console. The vents on the console are at the top(possibly at bottom too), and for the dock to provide cooling, it would have to drive/channel air upward through the main console. The design of the dock isn't very optimal for that. The "best" way to cool, given the current form factor, would be to have the (tiny?) fans in the base of the dock pushing air upward. But it's already sitting on the base, which would blocks air intake. You could have a huge fan in back half of the dock(which seems to have an opening but no visible vents), but then they'd need to engineer a shaft that propels air downward, around the base, then back up into the main unit. Seems like a lot of over engineering when they could just place a fan in the main unit, and run it at full speed when docked.

Also, I'm on mobile now and dont know if it was noted before, and cant immediately get a pic or tag the moment in the video, but there was one scene in the reveal trailer(iirc, it was right when the woman went to "undock" the Mario game), where you actually see between the dock, and, other than a 'connection mechanism,' nothing that resembles a channel for airflow can be seen. If the dock does house a fan, it would most likely be for its own internals, and warm air can easily be expelled out the back. Well, that's my take on it, anyway.

I should have said that it's been speculated that the fan could be in the dock. Right now there's no way to know for sure.

But for the first problem, I think Nintendo is planning to downclock the SoC fairly heavily in portable mode. That can get them a maximum of 512Gflops or so assuming Pascal/16nm architecture, though it may wind up even lower than that depending on how low they want to go. Either way, active cooling may not be necessary at such low clock rates/power draw, though certainly that's nothing we can know for sure now.

As for the design, I think the way it's designed makes perfect sense if the fan is in the dock. The dock has an air intake in the back which can be connected to an internal fan that blows air into the slits in the back of the Switch tablet, and up through the internals and finally out through the vents at the top of the tablet. That would solve the problem of having a moving part (fan) inside a portable device (tablet) which is typically a relatively common point of failure.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Anyone have any guesses as to why the dock is so large (for it's purposes)? Surely it doesn't need to be this big for 2-3 USB slots and an HDMI output right?

At this point I think it's just a design decision. I was expecting something much closer to the Wii U Gamepad's dock, but they seem to want to make it look more substantial. Something that can sit sturdily and doesn't leave (most of) the screen exposed. It seems like covering the screen is also going out of their way to show "This is not Wii U! Don't look here when it's docked, you won't see anything extra!"

 

[th3sicknness]

I should have said that it's been speculated that the fan could be in the dock. Right now there's no way to know for sure.

But for the first problem, I think Nintendo is planning to downclock the SoC fairly heavily in portable mode. That can get them a maximum of 512Gflops or so assuming Pascal/16nm architecture, though it may wind up even lower than that depending on how low they want to go. Either way, active cooling may not be necessary at such low clock rates/power draw, though certainly that's nothing we can know for sure now.

As for the design, I think the way it's designed makes perfect sense if the fan is in the dock. The dock has an air intake in the back which can be connected to an internal fan that blows air into the slits in the back of the Switch tablet, and up through the internals and finally out through the vents at the top of the tablet. That would solve the problem of having a moving part (fan) inside a portable device (tablet) which is typically a relatively common point of failure.

I agree there is no way they will have a fan that switches on and off while it is on the go.. It would eat battery and also would be very noisy. We havent even heard anything about where the speakers are on this thing and how loud they can get.. a fan would make them less effective.

 

[AzaK]

That's what I meant. I got a 256GB Micro SD card for $65.

Paying for storage doesn't bother me. I have the option to buy carts if I want, and other people shouldn't have to pay extra for my decision to go digital, especially if Nintendo is aiming for mass market pricing. Storage in a tablet form factor gets expensive in a hurry.

Yeah I understand it from the point of view of other people who might not want it, but if they are pushing AAA and if they are pushing digital downloads then they are basically saying "You will need to buy a lot of extra storage". This only works if the console itself is really cheap that another $60-100 is not a problem. Even if the machine is $200, if you're a big AAA gamer then you end up paying $300+ for the machine by the time you get only 512GB of storage.

And then there are the publishers. If they look at the machine and see anaemic storage, they may look at it like I do. That the console is aimed for the casual gamer who will play smaller HH type games. Does this make a market they want to bother with? It's like having a machine that requires extra accessories, publishers don't really like that and it splits the user base.

Flash storage has a cost though, and that would be quite likely on consumer's behalf given recent and not-so-recent statements by Nintendo regarding the desire to not sell below cost.

I'd argue an higher price would do more harm than good to the Switch, I believe they should keep the MSRP as low as possible instead.

For me I don't need a low price, I need a kick arse gaming machine where I don't have to fork out retail prices for basic storage.

I don't think half a gig will be a problem

Assuming you're talking about half a terabyte, though, how do you actually expect them to achieve that? HDDs are too big, 2.5" SSDs are too big, m.2 SSDs draw too much power. Nintendo's only realistic storage options are eMMC and UFS. eMMC comes in sizes up to 128GB, and UFS comes in sizes up to 256GB. That's what they've got to choose between.

It's not as if cost isn't an issue, either. A 256GB UFS chip probably costs Nintendo somewhere around $30-$40, which is the difference between a $199 machine and a $249 machine. Given that two-thirds of game purchases are still physical (a ratio that may be even higher for Nintendo) it seems reasonable enough that they would choose to offer a cheaper model with enough storage for patches and the occasional eShop game, and a more expensive model with a higher storage capacity. Which seems to be exactly what they're doing (and throwing a game in with the more expensive model to boot).

That's not to say I wouldn't like them to use 256GB of UFS as standard and somehow manage to keep the price below €250, but it's worth keeping our expectations in the realm of the technologically and financially possible.

Haha yes 1/2 TB.

Regarding cost I am making the assumption that whatever Nintendo choose as the solution, they can get it MUCH cheaper than customers can. For instance, if the +$50 SKU also had a 512GB microSD packed in it would be a moot point. But if I have to pay $60 at retail for a even 256GB that's starting to hurt because if my PS4 HDD is anything to go by I'll need two of those.

And finally, as I mentioned above, how does it affect the perspective AAA publishers and developers have of the console.