DrGAKMAN said:Explain how it would be $300 in 2009? The screen isn't THAT advanced (480x270 multi-touch, no big deal), nor the tactile mount it sets on, camera (even $50 throw-away cel's have camera's so that's not an issue), a built-in swipe card reader (pfft, pennies) and things like tilt, interflash & rumble are no big thing either.
Ahhh...you're talking about the Wii-like visuals in a portable aren't you? Without getting technical: the GBA is a portable SNES, the NDS is a portable N64...so it would make sense that the next portable would be GCN/Wii-level. Why not?
It's not like the Wii is some uber-powerful machine that's impossible to shrink. And if we do get technical, it wouldn't be a portable Wii, it'd be a next-gen NDS with a Wii-like UI & visuals at that resolution.
How would that be $300+ complex?
Shogmaster said:It's the combination of the visuals you are aiming for, the touch and feel technology, and the swivel and flip mechanism (need alot of delicate metal parts). Most sub $200 device just won't aim for such a complex hinge mechanism.
First, DS is NOT N64 level machine. No way no how. It can't even do texture filtering and alpha blends. Nintendo cheaped out on the rasterizer and saved money.
Second, 2009 won't be giving us Wii2 at the rate Wii is gaining market share. Nintendo won't give us Wii nor even GC visuals until Wii is superceded by a huge margin on their console side.
Third, you are under estimating the cost factor. even with sub 45nm bringing 65+ million worth of transistors and more than 64MB of 1T-SRAM will be a challenge for sub $200. Don't forget that Nintendo isn't chasing cutting edge visuals anymore and that they actually like to make profit right off the bat on their hardware.
Like I said, you are just trying to squeeze too much into this. This is not Nintendo's style anyways, and exercises like this is more challenging and fun if you try to predict what Nintendo would actually do, not what we personally would love to see in the devices and go crazy without constraints and limitations.
DrGAKMAN said:Wait wait, woah...there's no flipping or hinging in this design...read what I proposed again. Also I did not suggest Immersion's touchsense technology, my idea would be much cheaper/easier to impliment. It would be like putting an LCD on top of a set of digital buttons...not rocket surgery.
That's why I said "without getting technical"...I know it's NOT a N64, and you know that better than I do. But...in the portable world NDS most resembles N64, just like PSP most sembles PS2...even though, technically, they're not! The mere suggestion is that if GBA bumps to NDS, than the next portable should also bump up.
I think people (when I've presented this idea before too) are looking a bit too hard at the name "WiiDS" and thinking I'm suggesting making it a portable Wii. Or that it would somehow play Wii games or whatnot. No, it uses a Wii-like UI and (at it's resolution) it would appear to display Wii-like visuals in portable form. Not suggesting the same chipset, memory, power or performance.
I do think a lot like Nintendo, sometimes I go on wild tangent's, but I don't think this idea is one of them. And I agree, this is challenging, but fun!
How 'bout this, you look at my idea (feature-wise, asthetically & my no buttons/no hinges answer to digital control aka the "tactile mount") and you say "how can this work" on the chipset end to make a fluid enough UI on-screen and be able to run VC titles as well as give us *some* kind of bump above NDS in visuals...something also within what you think Nintendo would do. You may have with your internal chipset already, but I don't know how that stuff works so break it down for us and see what happens.
I'm not asking for a Wii in a DS...just a bump in graphics, more features, better screen, Wii-like UI/Channel's menu system & the ability to play VC games on the go...shouldn't be too much to ask.
Shogmaster said:OK, now I'm just SOOOoooo confused by your proposal. I can't make heads or tails of it! @_0 I guess I'm confused by the "sheathed" thingy and the "set of digital buttons" underneath the LCD? LCD is something you don't want to sandwich between the glass and buttons. They are too delicate. That's why the passive digitizesr work on top of the LCD. If you squeeze the LCD membrane everytime you make button presses, you will have damaged LCD pretty soon.
I gave it a bump. It's a portable Dreamcast. That's a huge bump from even the real N64! Don't be too greedy now.
I think may be the fault lies in the presentation of the idea. It's really hard to make out what you are aiming for.
If folks are not obsessed with the next Nintendo handheld doing a leap over the PSP (Nintendo certainly is not), I think most will be quite happy at the visuals MBX married to ARM 11 with 32MB of RAM will give. iPhone users are certainly happy with it's MBX + ARM driven visuals.
That's great and all but I doubt that would have any relevance to what Nintendo would do.Lazy8s said:A few different chip makers will be offering powerful PowerVR SGX solutions (SGX530 and SGX535) with ARM Cortex-A8 level CPUs (500+ MHz) and higher starting at around $20 by the beginning of 2008.
bud said:shogmaster, just disregard everything mastermfauli says.
I don't mind your criticisms either. Good times, all. Good times.MasterMFauli said:WTH?!?
Sorry that my opinion about something feelign alright is different from yours *sigh*
Shogmaster said:I don't mind your criticisms either. Good times, all. Good times.
Lazy8s said:Those SGX chips sip about the same amount of energy on their smaller process sizes (45nm for Intel, 65nm for TI and others) as the MBX generation of chips did.
MasterMFauli said:I didnt criticise your designs, they look great. But i prefer real buttons, and you also made designs with real buttons, so please, i dont know what bud is talking about, it was just that i like buttons
I suppose I could see SGX and ARM Cortex pair that's clocked low enough for Nintendo to accept and use in their console. I guess just can't see 600MHz CPU/200MHz GPU scenario in their next handheld. I can see 200/66 or in that neighborhood much easier.Lazy8s said:Sorry, I meant the whole SoC/chipset consumes a similar amount of power at their smaller process size as the last generation of SoCs containing MBX: OMAP3 versus OMAP2, for example. The CPUs have advanced in efficiency, as well.
While an MBX fabricated in the small process would lower the consumption even more, one of the lower scale SGXs, like the 510 or 520, might provide a better balance of performance, features, size, and consumption.
Barf_the_Mog said:Considering the device has motion detection....what would I do if I elbowed some prenant woman on the bus or in an airplane?
MasterMFauli said:Sorry, but all those designs with virtual buttons suck. It wouldnt feel good, simple as that.
A bare screen my look "elegant", but it´s no good for "serious" gaming.
DrGAKMAN said:Shog...
You never responded, do you have a better understanding on the sheathed & tactile mount ideas I have?
Shogmaster said:Duder, I have nothing for you on that front. I can't imagine what would make virtual buttons work satisfactory enough with LCD technology. About the sheath, I don't know why you would want to rob your accessory revenues that way. You get paid on the come back beeyatch!
Miniature buttons brings ergonomics problems. DS buttons are already tiny. You could do a 4 way rocker switch (pretty much a D-Pad of sorts) do a better job than 4 small buttons at that point, but that's far from ideal either.DrGAKMAN said:The slide sheild wouldn't have to be packaged with the system, just a cheap/easy fix to the screen protection thing eliminating the need for a clamshell design.
You're probably right, if my tactile LCD idea were possible, someone would be doing it already! Immersion is doing something similar, but my approach would be simpler than their's, but they would know better than any of us and I'm sure they've had the idea, but (for whatever reason) skipped it...probably 'cos it's not durrable and/or it didn't test well?
How do you feel about miniture buttons?
Linkzg said:
I think this would be the most ideal situation (just get the idea and not the crappy 3 minute ms paint crap).
DrGAKMAN said:Sadly...this may be very likely. I'd like Nintendo to get away from the 2 screen/clamshell design 'cos then they'll keep getting stuck with it due to BC issues. The next portable should nip that in the bud before that's all they're able to do from here on out.
Wolves Evolve said:Well, its as limiting as anything else. With a bigger top screen, they could do a massive range of new things. Normal twitch games in widescreen, DS-style games, or both, media player. Put 8 gig of storage in that ****er and you'll spray hot money all over Iwata's tits.
DrGAKMAN said:Instead of swivel, how about a slide up top screen panel? That way there's less moving parts, it's more reinforced (on a flat 1-way track as opposed to a 360* swivelling hinge) and overall it's more durable. Not so much different by design. If Nintendo decides to make it a 2 screen system again then that'd be the way to go. The speakers & menu buttons would have to be on the top screen panel though...so that when you "close" or slide the panel back into place you still have access to audio, pausing & menu. Also, replace the "nubs" with my D-Buttons...
I'll make one tomorrow...
Linkzg said:the screen will see not be protected, the other problem with a sliding design is that in most cases you cant have buttons that stick out to much, the third problem is it cant slide out all the way, there will have to be a part where the screen and bottom half are supported.
and that whole D-button thing is too much to carry around, its easier to have a nub (even tho the best analog stick ever on a handheld is from the Tapwave Zodiac.)
:lol That's awesome. I hope Shog gets some royalties.flipping_heck said:I would like to mention that Shogmaster's Nintendo TS design has been made public in a chinese magazine, GameNext, photos/scans later maybe.
Must be a very slow news week for them..lol
I endorse this message. Shog needs some spending cash desperately for the 360 fall/winter gaming lineup.Haunted One said::lol That's awesome. I hope Shog gets some royalties.
flipping_heck said:Here's a crappy photo (no scanner atm)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/nick64/DSCN0730.jpg[IMG]
Its only a small bit and they do know its a mocked up design (well i hope so)[/QUOTE]
Holy shit you're shitting me. What magazine is that?
LOL I can even see the "Shogmaster" in the article.
flipping_heck said:Here's a crappy photo (no scanner atm)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/nick64/DSCN0730.jpg
Its only a small bit and they do know its a mocked up design (well i hope so)
lol god damnflipping_heck said:I would like to mention that Shogmaster's Nintendo TS design has been made public in a chinese magazine, GameNext, photos/scans later maybe.
Must be a very slow news week for them..lol