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Nioh Alpha Demo Feedback

Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.
 

Kudo

Member
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.

Yeah, I don't feel like there's much flaws in the game outside some few technical aspects.
It definitely rose to top of my highly looking forward to list.
 

Sande

Member
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.
I don't really like enemies dropping random junk constantly, or constantly replacing/repairing your gear. I don't see the point of that beyond meaningless busywork managing your inventory.

Hopefully they just massively increased gear drop rate and equipment wear for the alpha.
 

Begaria

Member
I actually really like the loot system. Random items you don't need get turned into a small amount of amrita and bonus items like elixirs, arrows, and spirit stones.
 

Sande

Member
I actually really like the loot system. Random items you don't need get turned into a small amount of amrita and bonus items like elixirs, arrows, and spirit stones.
The rewards are nice but it's still just busywork. They could just as well give more of those rewards as loot instead.
 

Neoweee

Member
I think Durability has to go. As it is now, it doesn't really mean much. It's either meaningless when you have Stones & Glue, or tedious when you have to frequently shuffle your gear around. It especially doesn't work well with the DS1/3 style of weight-classes where it is most beneficial to end up just below the weight cutoffs.

Cut durability and lower drop-rates across the board, IMO.
 

BadWolf

Member
I don't really like enemies dropping random junk constantly, or constantly replacing/repairing your gear. I don't see the point of that beyond meaningless busywork managing your inventory.

Hopefully they just massively increased gear drop rate and equipment wear for the alpha.

Yeah, these parts are just an annoying waste of time and add nothing worthwhile to the gameplay.

The game is great otherwise.
 

Artdayne

Member
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.

I think the visual design could be a bit more inspired, though it's just a demo so it's hard to say what other areas of the game will look like. The gameplay is top tier though, I really like how high the skill cap is with the combat. I like that every time I come back to the game, there are ways that I can improve and learn to play better than last time.
 

Razzorn34

Member
Cool game. The hardest part for me was getting used to the different controls coming from Souls. It definitely feels like Samurai Souls.

Stance mechanic is nice. I feel like they should leverage that more. Make it more about strategy, and give regular enemies lower health. It gets a bit ridiculous in the second level with everyone becoming a damage sponge. Also, hammers/axes are way too easy to win with currently compared to sword/spear. Overall, fun combat though.

The gear system is terrible, and they should scrap it. Souls mixed with a Diablo gear system is not what I want. That, combined with the insane durability loss, makes all of your equipment feel completely worthless in the end. Not to mention the 5000 copies of everything. There is no excitement around getting rare gear if you are just going to lose it in an hour. Tying your health vials to turning in weapons seems like a weird mechanic as well.

Summoning npcs from bloodstains to fight is a pretty cool mechanic. They should definitely expand on that. Maybe have ones that can briefly help you instance.
 
-More quick item slots. 3 is not enough given the volume of tools that are at you disposal.

- Weapon durability possible fixes:
  1. Make whetstones and glue a more common drop
  2. Ability to buy whetstones and glue from shrines with Amrita
  3. Ability to repair Weapons and armor at Shrines with Amrita
  4. Weapons and Armor health resets upon death
  5. Septupling Weapon and Armor health


-OFFLINE MODE
 
-More quick item slots. 3 is not enough given the volume of tools that are at you disposal.

- Weapon durability possible fixes:
  1. Make whetstones and glue a more common drop
    [*]Ability to buy whetstones and glue from shrines with Amrita
    [*]Ability to repair Weapons and armor at Shrines with Amrita
  2. Weapons and Armor health resets upon death
  3. Septupling Weapon and Armor health


-OFFLINE MODE

I would be shocked if one of these don't already exist in their plans for the final game. There are still a couple Shrine menu items that have yet to be unlocked.
 

kuroneco

Member
-More quick item slots. 3 is not enough given the volume of tools that are at you disposal.

- Weapon durability possible fixes:
  1. Make whetstones and glue a more common drop
  2. Ability to buy whetstones and glue from shrines with Amrita
  3. Ability to repair Weapons and armor at Shrines with Amrita
  4. Weapons and Armor health resets upon death
  5. Septupling Weapon and Armor health


-OFFLINE MODE

The game is not online only. It is written on the startup screen when you play this demo at first time.
 
I was able to beat the demo with minimal trouble (though Nue got me 5 times), but this game is way too difficult if they're trying to reach a large audience. I appreciate the difficult myself, but it's probably going to hurt the sales for this game.
 
I was able to beat the demo with minimal trouble (though Nue got me 5 times), but this game is way too difficult if they're trying to reach a large audience. I appreciate the difficult myself, but it's probably going to hurt the sales for this game.

Like Dark Souls?

And Lords of the Fallen (even though that game was straight booty)?

I'm betting this game, like the character action titles before it, will sell fine. DS proved you can make a hard game and have it sell reasonably.
 

Neoweee

Member
Like Dark Souls?

And Lords of the Fallen (even though that game was straight booty)?

I'm betting this game, like the character action titles before it, will sell fine. DS proved you can make a hard game and have it sell reasonably.

Unless the game has a much more gradual tutorial and difficulty curve than the Alpha does, it is much, much steeper than the Dark Souls difficulty curve was. In none of the Souls games have I spent this much time dying to the first 3 enemies.
 

Gun Animal

Member
I was able to beat the demo with minimal trouble (though Nue got me 5 times), but this game is way too difficult if they're trying to reach a large audience. I appreciate the difficult myself, but it's probably going to hurt the sales for this game.

the position that something you like won't sell well on the assumption that most people are relatively stupid or uncoordinated is a pretty cynical one, my dude. Moreover, this game started production as a completely different kind of game years ago, and the only reason they converted it to a Soulslike is because of market demand for more Soulslikes. It's not 2006-2010 anymore and people like challenging games again.

If anything were going to hurt this game's sales it would be the Feudal/Mythical Japanese aesthetics and art direction. There's a reason From makes a conscious effort to make their games look as western as possible.

Unless the game has a much more gradual tutorial and difficulty curve than the Alpha does, it is much, much steeper than the Dark Souls difficulty curve was. In none of the Souls games have I spent this much time dying to the first 3 enemies.

I have a feeling this game is actually harder for Dark Souls fans because of all the expectations they bring along with them. You really aren't supposed to get hit at all in this game and you should ideally avoid confrontations with more than one enemy, which is easily doable. Just figure out which paths to take to avoid confrontations that you're going to lose.
 

Mutombo

Member
Like Dark Souls?

And Lords of the Fallen (even though that game was straight booty)?

I'm betting this game, like the character action titles before it, will sell fine. DS proved you can make a hard game and have it sell reasonably.

but it took a few games for the name recognition to grow. Ni-Oh already sounds like "obscure asian ninja game", and if they're aiming for the Souls Hungry audience, not all of them will buy them because they will compare it too much with Souls. Which is an obvious thing to do, but all this talk of an easy mode in DS lately makes me sort of agree with an option to make it easier. Or they should try to streamline it more, instead of throwing you in and dealing with it.
 

Gun Animal

Member
but it took a few games for the name recognition to grow. Ni-Oh already sounds like "obscure asian ninja game", and if they're aiming for the Souls Hungry audience, not all of them will buy them because they will compare it too much with Souls. Which is an obvious thing to do, but all this talk of an easy mode in DS lately makes me sort of agree with an option to make it easier. Or they should try to streamline it more, instead of throwing you in and dealing with it.

Soulslike games don't have difficulty modes! Soulslike games don't have streamlined, linear design! This is like coming into a thread about Bravely Default and saying that they should make it an action game.
 
My only main critique is how steep the initial learning curve is. Considering there is so much to learn that is on par with some of the most obtuse action games, it is one hell of an intimidating introduction that could seriously hurt sales.

Once you get the basic down and an understanding of the game then it is fantastic but the first area doesn't help. It needs something that is about half the difficulty of what is in the alpha, then ramp up when you get to that point. In the souls games even though the enemy difficulties don't change the first areas allow people to get comfortable with the games before any real challenge appears.

Also put pause in the game. Pause is popular for a reason as we all have lives that often demand we do something and unless it is always online then there should be no reason for pause not to be there.
 
I don't really like enemies dropping random junk constantly, or constantly replacing/repairing your gear. I don't see the point of that beyond meaningless busywork managing your inventory.

Hopefully they just massively increased gear drop rate and equipment wear for the alpha.

I'll never understand why ppl use inventory management as a negative in games...

It's part of the game, it isn't an action only game. Inventory management, having the right equipment/Strats/backup plans/etc ready, is part of the game. Maybe u don't feel like doing it, but that doesn't make it "meaningless".

Also who's forcing you to pick up every drop? The game tells u what weapons are equal stronger or weaker than your current equipment b4 u pick it up
 

Mutombo

Member
Soulslike games don't have difficulty modes! Soulslike games don't have streamlined, linear design! This is like coming into a thread about Bravely Default and saying that they should make it an action game.

wasn't talking about DS, but about Nioh, mang!
 

DieH@rd

Banned
I just GOT IT, and played demo for 2 hours. Lvl 16 motherfucker that wrecks everything. :D

Ki Pulse makes gameplay very very very good, although I am still not great with it and I focus on small-scale battles.

I got to the burning village and the boss that protects it. I figure I can get him with usual attacks, but I think this is the time for me to learn how to use Onmyo magic and Nijitsu. I have invested Ninjutsu and Magic points into new skills, and I can fill out their slots in the shrine... BUT HOW TO ACTIVATE THOSE ITEMS ON THE FIELD?

Also, is there a way to craft items [arrows/health potions]?
 

Shinriji

Member
For me:

- Remenants on screen. Too many at the same spot and some of them are very distracting (near doors and ladders).
- Tone down the loot, at the same time increase the elixir drop rate.
- Back hop and rolls should be longer (Rue fight is harder than it should because of that).
- Bow aiming should be faster on default.
- Fix the framerate on action mode.
 

BadWolf

Member
I just GOT IT, and played demo for 2 hours. Lvl 16 motherfucker that wrecks everything. :D

Ki Pulse makes gameplay very very very good, although I am still not great with it and I focus on small-scale battles.

I got to the burning village and the boss that protects it. I figure I can get him with usual attacks, but I think this is the time for me to learn how to use Onmyo magic and Nijitsu. I have invested Ninjutsu and Magic points into new skills, and I can fill out their slots in the shrine... BUT HOW TO ACTIVATE THOSE ITEMS ON THE FIELD?

Also, is there a way to craft items [arrows/health potions]?

To activate the guardian spirit magic, wait for its meter to fill up (it's to the left of the life bar) and then hit Triangle+Circle to use it.

To use Shurikens etc., go to the equip menu and assign them to one of the item shortcut boxes. Then use them with the d-pad on the field.

There's no item crafting. You can farm arrows from bow using enemies.
 

Dargor

Member
The only two things I think are really unbalanced: Weapons degradation and fighting multiple enemies at once.

There really is no need for weapons to fall apart so fast, since they are always giving you repair stones.

And when I'm facing 3 or more dudes, it looks more like a game of cat and mouse than a sword fight lol. Running for days hehehehe.
 

Raven117

Member
I was able to beat the demo with minimal trouble (though Nue got me 5 times), but this game is way too difficult if they're trying to reach a large audience. I appreciate the difficult myself, but it's probably going to hurt the sales for this game.

I'm all for difficult games, but, I do think the learning curve with this is steeper than Dark Souls.

IMO, I think it is closer to Demon's Souls. Demon's having much more punishing LEVELS themselves (not just cannon fodder, then a boss).

Also, the Souls games reward patience for the most part (though Bloodborne and DS3 are getting away from that formula)...NIOH you have to correctly balance patience and then going all out attack....

I don't know...they really aren't the same in terms of combat. At first glance, one might think they are close to each other, but one you get into it, the combat philosophies are quite different.

My 2 gripes are (1) Weapon and armor degradation...its just annoying...almost always breaks in the middle of a boss fight...just irritating...let me just buy whetstones for cheap..(2) Average enemies have TOO MUCH HEALTH. I have no problem with them hitting like a truck, but the reason the mob fights are pretty much a wipe is because each enemy takes a volley of two or three movesets and counters. I should be able to take out a shirtless spear guy in one combo. Not 3.


I love it.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
To activate the guardian spirit magic, wait for its meter to fill up (it's to the left of the life bar) and then hit Triangle+Circle to use it.

To use Shurikens etc., go to the equip menu and assign them to one of the item shortcut boxes. Then use them with the d-pad on the field.

There's no item crafting. You can farm arrows from bow using enemies.

Aha, got it. Ninjutsu & Onmyo magic items are just items. I found them.
 

Sushigod7

Member
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.

Yeah this for sure I am going to send another feedback submission in and tell them this. I sent one the other day after playing for like 5hrs but now after another 3-4 I feel different lol.
 
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.

I don't see a single flaw in the game yet. It doesn't need to feed the audience, and it doesn't need to be a straight up Souls port. I am sure the presentation of the final game will be more approachable, but everything else has a good game written all over it.
 
the position that something you like won't sell well on the assumption that most people are relatively stupid or uncoordinated is a pretty cynical one, my dude. Moreover, this game started production as a completely different kind of game years ago, and the only reason they converted it to a Soulslike is because of market demand for more Soulslikes. It's not 2006-2010 anymore and people like challenging games again.

If anything were going to hurt this game's sales it would be the Feudal/Mythical Japanese aesthetics and art direction. There's a reason From makes a conscious effort to make their games look as western as possible.



I have a feeling this game is actually harder for Dark Souls fans because of all the expectations they bring along with them. You really aren't supposed to get hit at all in this game and you should ideally avoid confrontations with more than one enemy, which is easily doable. Just figure out which paths to take to avoid confrontations that you're going to lose.
Ew. That sounds like you could extrapolate a good deal of racial/xenophobic bias from certain Souls players then.
 

Blueingreen

Member
-60fps
-Better lock on
-And a better more informed tutorial
-tone down weapon durability

I'll be sound as a pound otherwise
 

BadWolf

Member
-60fps
-Better lock on
-And a better more informed tutorial
-tone down weapon durability

I'll be sound as a pound otherwise

Don't know if you've seen it but there is an option in settings which lets you toggle the visuals between Movie (higher resolution, lower fps) and Action (60fps, lower resolution).
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Lvl 21, opened shortcut to the ship

nioh1sbuqx.jpg

nioh202u7q.jpg

nioh3p5uol.jpg


Magnificent game.

Hopefully they will manage to get 900p60 on final game [with AA]. In any case, I will most probably play it on NEO. I appreciate regular item drops, but durability damange is too high right now.
 

Lord Phol

Member
Don't know if you've seen it but there is an option in settings which lets you toggle the visuals between Movie (higher resolution, lower fps) and Action (60fps, lower resolution).

The fps isn't locked in action mode though, it can go pretty low at times. I'm also hoping for 60 fps for the full release.
 
Here's something else I realized that they need to address: weapon stance memory. There isn't any. I like to use the Katana on the medium stance, and the hammer on the high stance. The problem is the stance remains the same for both weapon. If I switch from my Katana to my Hammer, I will also have to readjust the stance to high, every time. And vice versa. The game should remember which stance I use with each weapon type. If I switch from the hammer to the katana, and my stance with the hammer was high, then when I switch back to the hammer, the game should automatically switch back the stance to high.
 

DedValve

Banned
I don't like the durability system nor do I like the weapon drop system. To be fair I also dislike how its handled in Dark Souls.

I'd much rather each weapon be unique and can only drop once. It makes each time you get a new weapon feel great and awesome, even if there aren't that many weapons in total.

The current system simply fails at getting you to change things up as outside of rare weapon drops you'll pretty much have 2 or more of the same weapon so just swap it out. It adds micromanagement when the micromanaging itself doesn't really fit the game.

Maybe instead having a buff/debuff system like how Monster Hunter handled it which is king when it comes to weapons and their "durability" system.

Your weapons have a sharpness and can rapidly get dull which requires you to sharpen them with limited items. There are varying levels of sharpness with each doing less and less damage until you reach dull. Weapons can never break and instead just have a far weaker attack and there are no duplicate weapons so there is no need for inventory/item managament.

Each weapon will feel personal as a result and you can still have a consequence of continuously using the same weapon without caring for it. A cool bonus could be that weapons auto-sharpen so long as you are using another weapon in the meantime which would GREATLY encourage weapon diversity imo however that will require a lot more careful balance.
 

Santar

Member
I'll never understand why ppl use inventory management as a negative in games...

It's part of the game, it isn't an action only game. Inventory management, having the right equipment/Strats/backup plans/etc ready, is part of the game. Maybe u don't feel like doing it, but that doesn't make it "meaningless".


Also who's forcing you to pick up every drop? The game tells u what weapons are equal stronger or weaker than your current equipment b4 u pick it up

Completely agree!
It's like people have forgotten to learn to play different games differently and change how they play to the games style these days. Now everybody wants the games to change to their will instead of adapting to the game.
 

TokiDoki

Member
The camera movement caused me nausea , its like there's input lag on it and feels heavy . Souls games never did that to me .
 

DedValve

Banned
I'll never understand why ppl use inventory management as a negative in games...

It's part of the game, it isn't an action only game. Inventory management, having the right equipment/Strats/backup plans/etc ready, is part of the game. Maybe u don't feel like doing it, but that doesn't make it "meaningless".

Also who's forcing you to pick up every drop? The game tells u what weapons are equal stronger or weaker than your current equipment b4 u pick it up

There are some people who definitely hate all types of micromanagement and theres no helping that but I do both agree and disagree with you.

Micromanagement and inventroy management can either be great fun and add to the game (Resident Evil) or detract from it (Fallout).

I feel that in order for inventory management to be good there needs to be a difficult choice that you decide on what to bring and what to leave behind.

I bolded and underlined difficult choice because it is SO crucial to doing proper and fun inventory management rather than slapping on a weapon durability system and pickups for the sake of the genre.

Lets look at Classic Resident Evil. You only have 6 slots which you can fill with anything. Sure you could fill all your slots so your always prepared but then you are unable to pick up anything else. So now the question is how many slots do you leave empty and what do you bring?

The choice is difficult and it is not set by the game. You as the player must decide this and you can either go with no inventory or (close) to full inventory and still beat the game either way yet what you decide impacts how you play. If I choose not to bring an ink ribbon then I obviously would be more careful around zombies or heal more as it might be awhile before my next save. If I choose not to bring shotgun ammo, I'll be wasting it on a horde of zombies if something even more dangerous lurks in the next room. etc.


In fallout there is rarely a difficult choice. The game wants you to pick up literally every nook and cranny you can find down to a wooden spork but then punishes you for doing it too much. Yet you just go to an inventory to hoard it all anyways. The only things you really want to keep are the weapons you use and your armor you wear. Everything else just goes straight to an inventory box at the soonest possible moment just so you can collect more objects to put in your inventory box. yo dawg I heard you like hoarding.

There is not much of a choice. You'll be hard pressed to keep a toaster or a wooden block. Theres no reason outside of quest items which in many cases don't even have weight. So then inventory becomes management becomes annoying.

Same applies in Ni-Oh. You find another sword as backup so you pick it up because weapons can break yet theres not really the tough choices you have to make. If your inventory is full you just get rid of any duplicates or weak weapons. If a weapon drops you'll pick it up. I'm not really trading anything except inconvenience when my inventory is full and I just have to get rid of the shit.

Sorry for the massive essay lol.

TL;DR for inventory to be done right every item should have a clear purpose and affect how you play the game if you had it vs if you didnt. And the game should present difficult choices in what you should bring and what you should leave behind.

Collecting all the shit that drops until a message says "encumbered" is just annoying and dare I say 'lazy' method of implementing micromanagement. Might as well just give infinite inventory in that case and save us the hassle.
 

Kholdy

Neo Member
TL;DR for inventory to be done right every item should have a clear purpose and affect how you play the game if you had it vs if you didnt. And the game should present difficult choices in what you should bring and what you should leave behind.

Collecting all the shit that drops until a message says "encumbered" is just annoying and dare I say 'lazy' method of implementing micromanagement. Might as well just give infinite inventory in that case and save us the hassle.


Yeah, the way it is, it's just annoying. I usually just locked the three Highest ATK/DEF weapons/armors of each type and dump the rest on the shrine.


In NioH, equipment have random(?) buff/debuff on equipment so theoretically you never have the same weapon (creating inventory bloat).
I dislike this, would prefer a system where I have less weapons but can Infuse them, like Bloodborne perhaps. Enemies could drop these upgrade items or whatever.

About durability, I would prefer a system that rewards a player that maintains his equipment in good condition (Witcher 3 weapon sharpening comes to mind but much more toned down).
 

pixelbox

Member
Is it just me, but the more I play this game, the less I want them to change anything?

Every system has a purpose, every thing you think is a design flaw makes more sense further on into the game.

Literally the only thing that needs improving is the games performance visually in action mode. Otherwise, for better or worse, its perfect.

You're not alone at all...
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I just spent 14 hours non-stop on this alpha.

Game is good. Aim and camera issues is real though, but I like it.
 
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