ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Where's devil's third and fatal frame in the E3 nintendo this year?
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NOA localizer insists Xenoblade too risky, defends Wii U naming
- Thread starter Agent Unknown
- Start date
Where's devil's third and fatal frame in the E3 nintendo this year?
This is a difficult issue but I wonder if they're looking at it in the right way?
On a game by game basis, sure, some of these releases could be difficult to justify. Yet, I do feel as if they are, perhaps, underestimating the impact of having a broad, varied library available for the console. It might be too late for Wii U, but diversity can really help. It's the kind of strategy we saw with PS2, really, where loads of bizarre games were released alongside the expected titles. Does every game need to be a huge hit to make it worth while? If you manage to pull in a lot of smaller audiences based on these games it would increase the strength of the user-base as a whole.
It's impossible to guess whether this would have had a positive or negative impact in the end, but I've often thought about it. Nintendo seems very stingy with the releases for their console.
On a game by game basis, sure, some of these releases could be difficult to justify. Yet, I do feel as if they are, perhaps, underestimating the impact of having a broad, varied library available for the console. It might be too late for Wii U, but diversity can really help. It's the kind of strategy we saw with PS2, really, where loads of bizarre games were released alongside the expected titles. Does every game need to be a huge hit to make it worth while? If you manage to pull in a lot of smaller audiences based on these games it would increase the strength of the user-base as a whole.
It's impossible to guess whether this would have had a positive or negative impact in the end, but I've often thought about it. Nintendo seems very stingy with the releases for their console.
It's not NCL's fault for greenlighting incredibly niche projects that would struggle to make back their budget even on healthy platforms? For the entirety of this generation, NoA's been doing the best possible job with the scraps they've been given, localisation-wise.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Again, Nintendo not thinking globally.
If they really cared about the Americas smash would have a much stronger online focus for example
YianGaruga
Banned
Pretty much
now where is my Rhythm Tengoku The Best +? It'll cost next to nothing to localize, put it on the eShop for $20-$30 and it'll do fine.
To be fair you could argue that new/updated versions of games like F-Zero, Wave Race, Pilot Wings, Diddy Kong Racing, 1080 Snowboarding and Mario Strikers would be much better investments in regards to the Nintendo hardcore (certainly in regards to a worldwide aundience)..
All far cheaper to produce and far cheaper to localize than a massive project like Xenoblade.
So how is that NOA's fault exactly?
Stop complaining about NOA when you know where the source of the issue lies.
Not only that, the Xenoblade titles barely moved a needle in Japan. That's just plain idiocy to greenlight something like that nowadays.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Oh man, im glad I live in europe where NoE and Shibata actually have guts to release game.
Lol at europe taking the fall. What fall? It sold pretty well. Maybe this guy shows that atlus is in the wrong then not localizong in europe pal5...
"What a bunch of jokers"
Btw of they think its going to sell that bad, make it at least digital.
Lol at europe taking the fall. What fall? It sold pretty well. Maybe this guy shows that atlus is in the wrong then not localizong in europe pal5...
"What a bunch of jokers"
Btw of they think its going to sell that bad, make it at least digital.
SomedayTheFire
Member
He's 100% right about Xenoblade
They didn't exactly have that option with Xenoblade.
did noe actually do all the localization themselves, or were some of the languages outsourced?
if i'm looking at 2010-2011 nintendo, when xenoblade would have been up for the localization process, i'm also looking at skyward sword, pokemon black/white, pokemon heartgold/heartsilver, pokemon ranger, golden sun: dark dawn, ocarina of time 3d, star fox 64 3d, nintendogs + cats, etc.
I even have problems with the part that some say is reasonable.
IMO, Nintendo should have other priorities besides whether an individual software title will be a blockbuster hit. I think Nintendo, in general, does but NOA didn't get the memo.
The problem is that Nintendo isn't only a software developer it also makes consoles. Nintendo isn't any publisher. It's basically THE ONLY publisher supporting its own console hardware. So telling people who bought their console ONLY FOR THEIR F-ING GAMES that that it's too expensive to release games they have already made comes off like a HUGE slap in the face. Maybe your machine is too expensive for what we're getting. How about that? What exactly were we supposed to do with the piece of plastic Nintendo? Paper weight? Door stop?
Maybe they should really get out of the hardware business because some of the decisions NOA made would work better for a third party developing for Sony or Microsoft. If they're changing then they'd better hurry it up.
IMO, Nintendo should have other priorities besides whether an individual software title will be a blockbuster hit. I think Nintendo, in general, does but NOA didn't get the memo.
The problem is that Nintendo isn't only a software developer it also makes consoles. Nintendo isn't any publisher. It's basically THE ONLY publisher supporting its own console hardware. So telling people who bought their console ONLY FOR THEIR F-ING GAMES that that it's too expensive to release games they have already made comes off like a HUGE slap in the face. Maybe your machine is too expensive for what we're getting. How about that? What exactly were we supposed to do with the piece of plastic Nintendo? Paper weight? Door stop?
Maybe they should really get out of the hardware business because some of the decisions NOA made would work better for a third party developing for Sony or Microsoft. If they're changing then they'd better hurry it up.
YianGaruga
Banned
Does that make a difference?
It's too bad budget is proportional to game sales, instead of quality and ideas. Remember Iwata used to say Wii is a place where the idea can beat budget.
I just don't care about video games anymore. The future outlook is only getting worse for me with every passing minute. They ruined the Xenoblade series by changing focus from story to freedom/exploration, now we can't even be sure there will be another epic JRPG from Monolith. :/
I just don't care about video games anymore. The future outlook is only getting worse for me with every passing minute. They ruined the Xenoblade series by changing focus from story to freedom/exploration, now we can't even be sure there will be another epic JRPG from Monolith. :/
Fatal Frame got its own section of the Treehouse and they didn't shy away from the gruesome nature of the game. Devil's Third wasn't at E3 but given how troubled the final game was out, I'm thinking that was for the best.
Xenoblade didn't make a profit though. I'm pretty sure it didin't sell a million copies worldwide. The sequel probably won't make it, either. That's a MAJOR loss to take on, regardless of the platform's success, especially when you consider how much has to go into localization of a game that size.
Being digital only wouldn't have helped either, especially when you consider marketing the thing. Not only that, there'd be a lot of people upset that you couldn't get a retail copy of it, especially when it would be full price. It's a lose-lose situation, no matter how you slice it.
Honestly, Nintendo needs to reign in Monolith's spending on bloated projects that aren't going anywhere. It feels like they have free reign, regardless of price.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Reggie said the game was crap because the steps sound sounded like shit.
Im sorry america you couldnt have fun with it. Its a freaking great game.
1. You need to install confidence with your audience even if you are not going to make too much of a profit with it, other games will recoup the cost, thats how this works.
2. Im pretty sure it made a profit even if it didnt sell millions. It was talked on the iwata asks about the surprise of the game doing well and so many people liking it. They put shulk as a character in smash, they greenlighted a sequel, the made a portable port. can you stop saying it did badly.
Don't they go all with the Rhythm Heaven games and re-dub the songs in English? That's probably why localization hasn't been announced for that game yet.
YianGaruga
Banned
Not sure actually. If they do I'd say that's a waste of money
If they can't afford to support their hardware with their own software in order to create a varied library and they can't afford to money-hat third parties why are they competing in that space?
[Yeah I quoted you but I'm not really responding to you. I'm just saying that a myopic viewpoint in terms of success of the individual titles can't apply when you're the only one making games for your platform.]
PdotMichael
Banned
I don't know or even care about how Nintendo's oversea branches operate. It's fact and reality that an English translation (even a dub) of Xenoblade was available for NoA and NoA just didn't want to release that game because it wasn't worth the money and work.
And if your listed games are pushing Nintendo to their limits then Nintendo has even bigger problems.
They do, they redub a lot of the stuff into English. And yeah, it kind of matters given how vocal a lot of the cues are. They also redub most of the remixes into English as well. I think the only things they don't redub are the "nonsense" words. Rhythm Heaven by nature is a very localization-heavy game and it shouldn't be surprising that a simultaneous launch is rather unrealistic, especially given how meh the Wii version sold over here.
Even when you do that you get the physical or bust crowd complaining "why don't you want my money". See Yakuza 5 which is a miracle that we're getting a localisation at all and still some complain.
Regardless of that localisation isn't cheap even if you go digital only.
cireza
Member
NoE has always made good localization efforts, and also collectors/bundles. They should continue this way.
Localizing a game can be a big risk indeed, it is not an easy decision.
I remember NoE localizing and translating in all languages the first Etrian Odyssey on DS. I thought that this was very nice of them, such a niche game, being handled directly by Nintendo themselves.
Localizing a game can be a big risk indeed, it is not an easy decision.
I remember NoE localizing and translating in all languages the first Etrian Odyssey on DS. I thought that this was very nice of them, such a niche game, being handled directly by Nintendo themselves.
I would agree with you, if I would think Nintendo had to struggle to "keep everyone on your team fed". It's a probably a wise business decision to play it safe if releasing the wrong title can spell doom to your company, but that's not where Nintendo was at when Xenoblade was new. Nintendo was in a position where they had money for investments, and a console that was very much lacking in titles that would appeal to a core audience. It was not the audience that was buying most of their games at the time, but it's the people who keep on buying games even when fads are over. If Nintendo was ever in the right place to take some chances and spend some money on cultivating a varied library of quality games and broaden their markets, that was exactly it. Instead the Wii became known as the home for Nintendo IPs, party games, family games and showelware, and I'm sure it hasn't helped the WiiU either. The WiiU has a quality library, but it's appeal is extremely narrow. Nintendo has painted itself into that corner.
You don't even need that. All you need is the rumor that the NA release of Fatal Frame will be digital and people are gearing up to sell their Wii U's on principle.
Sumio Mondo
Member
NoE continuing to be the better division, so it seems. The Wii U branding did hurt the consoles chances. I worked in retail when it first launched and let me tell you, the amount of people who were confused about the naming was really high. This guy is totally wrong on that.
That NoE fronted the costs for and localized? NoA didn't do shit except just manufacture it into NA regions.
That NoE fronted the costs for and localized? NoA didn't do shit except just manufacture it into NA regions.
YianGaruga
Banned
I played the games entirery in Japanese and I wouldn't consider a localization of the songs in any way essential. It's a very Japanese and quirky game, subtitles would be more than enough.
And I'm not asking for a simultaneous release, Id just like them to do it at all and so far I'm not very confident.
The Wii U's library is decent but the "casuals" left and the Wii brand doesn't communicate that the system will have titles that appeal to all gamers. As you said, Nintendo painted itself into that corner when it got drunk on all that blue ocean money.
papercan55
Member
I mean, fuck, even Target, a major retailer partner for NOA, couldn't get it right at one point:
Target is one thing, nintendo did this to themselves, not only does the wii u look like a wii console but the first lot of adverts made this even more confusing.
It's that mario wii game the family already owns but now you can play it on a wii u screen whilst someone else plays on the wii remote.
If mario bros u actually had some 'new' effort put into the creative art design it would have helped separate it visually from the wii version.
I actually think the name would have been fine if the console looked different, didn't launch with what looks like the same mario game as the wii version and they didn't have every poster feature wii remotes.
when the console launched all the adverts were so confusing, wii remotes everywhere alongside wii u gamepads playing games that look like wii games.
retailers and consumers had no idea what was going on...
The wii u has easily the best lineup of exclusives, all amazing titles but it took two years for people to understand what the console was and the name was not the biggest problem.
KiTA
Member
So... why localize the voices?
Seriously, is there some rule that states they HAVE to localize the voice acting? I'm not going to be pissed if I hear Japanese. Yes, some people will, and a tiny minority will rant and rave about how it's ruined for them and they won't buy it. But the vast majority will -- enough that really, in a niche project voice acting would be like the first thing I'd toss out.
Totally agree with this though, but sadly the videogames development isn't handled like a global business, at least not by japanese companies. I agree that localizations should be the rule, not the exception, and work should be done to have them be part of a standard.
I wonder how Valkyria Chronicles 3 would have sold had it been Localized too. Or Dragon Quest, or Tales of Hearts DS. You know, those would have been great times to release in the west. When those games came out, the systems were at their peak and with such a diverse market interested in those kinds of titles.
Too bad most Japanese companies think only of Japan while giving only scraps to the west.
There's some truth in saying that these companies need to start thinking globally, but I feel Nintendo is somewhere near the bottom of the list to start thinking globally in terms of localization efforts. They've been doing much more, like I mentioned earlier. How many are going to release Tomodachi Life in this day and age? A very Japanese-centric title and it managed to sell 4.3 million globally. I think they Learned something from Xenoblade's success and have been putting in more effort and asking for more help from other companies like Xseed. They're even expanding and looking to hire on more for Treehouse staff.
Square Enix? Nintendo had to localize Bravely Default because they thought JRPGs were dead in the west. Then with genuine surprise, they learned we still want JRPGs after great sales of Bravely Default.
Sega? Yakuza I imagine is far too costly for them and why they got Sony to publish. Don't even bother to bring up Valkyria Chronicles 3.
Bandai Namco? I've come to really dislike them now. Bandai is probably the worst and doesn't supply enough documentation and it shows in every single Tales of title released that none of them can get the name of attacks right which has stayed mostly consistent since the first game on SNES. So far, some of their best translations have come from fans, early PS days or when NoA localized and translated Symphonia. I have no faith in Bandai Namco in making a good translation for some of their titles and my favorite series, and that has only made me not care and wish the series stayed in Japan if they can't even give their audience any kind of respect after begging and pleading for it to return. Bandai is also one of the worst on globalization efforts as they only care Japan thinks and could not care less about what western fans think.
I think no matter where you look, now that the internet is here and we're all more aware of these things, you can't just pin everything on one company when you see a crisis everywhere with major titles either not releasing in the west, not offering enough budget or documentation, or requiring help from a console manufacturer just to get something to ship.
Those companies seem to have a lot of problems and are unable to keep up with our global demands, or just refuse and continue to only look to Japan and dive deeper into mobile.
Nintendo needs to get more work done for sure, they're still far from being caught up with the west but I feel they've been putting in much more effort this generation to think more global, and localize more games than ever before. Something I hope to see improve even more going forward.
They sell considerably less compared to games with localized english voice acting.
Too bad most Japanese companies think only of Japan while giving only scraps to the west.
There's some truth in saying that these companies need to start thinking globally, but I feel Nintendo is somewhere near the bottom of the list to start thinking globally in terms of localization efforts. They've been doing much more, like I mentioned earlier. How many are going to release Tomodachi Life in this day and age? A very Japanese-centric title and it managed to sell 4.3 million globally. I think they Learned something from Xenoblade's success and have been putting in more effort and asking for more help from other companies like Xseed. They're even expanding and looking to hire on more for Treehouse staff.
Square Enix? Nintendo had to localize Bravely Default because they thought JRPGs were dead in the west. Then with genuine surprise, they learned we still want JRPGs after great sales of Bravely Default.
Sega? Yakuza I imagine is far too costly for them and why they got Sony to publish. Don't even bother to bring up Valkyria Chronicles 3.
Bandai Namco? I've come to really dislike them now. Bandai is probably the worst and doesn't supply enough documentation and it shows in every single Tales of title released that none of them can get the name of attacks right which has stayed mostly consistent since the first game on SNES. So far, some of their best translations have come from fans, early PS days or when NoA localized and translated Symphonia. I have no faith in Bandai Namco in making a good translation for some of their titles and my favorite series, and that has only made me not care and wish the series stayed in Japan if they can't even give their audience any kind of respect after begging and pleading for it to return. Bandai is also one of the worst on globalization efforts as they only care Japan thinks and could not care less about what western fans think.
I think no matter where you look, now that the internet is here and we're all more aware of these things, you can't just pin everything on one company when you see a crisis everywhere with major titles either not releasing in the west, not offering enough budget or documentation, or requiring help from a console manufacturer just to get something to ship.
Those companies seem to have a lot of problems and are unable to keep up with our global demands, or just refuse and continue to only look to Japan and dive deeper into mobile.
Nintendo needs to get more work done for sure, they're still far from being caught up with the west but I feel they've been putting in much more effort this generation to think more global, and localize more games than ever before. Something I hope to see improve even more going forward.
They sell considerably less compared to games with localized english voice acting.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Sad to hear that from a loc guy
Old, but relevant:
https://youtu.be/c-_yZvmzLOQ
He made some good points back then. Never underestimate the NA market. And his voice wasn't "nasally".
Edit: I also remember an old video from before the wiiu came out where a gaming journalist walked around asking people if they knew a new Wii was coming out.
They were like " wha--?"
https://youtu.be/c-_yZvmzLOQ
He made some good points back then. Never underestimate the NA market. And his voice wasn't "nasally".
Edit: I also remember an old video from before the wiiu came out where a gaming journalist walked around asking people if they knew a new Wii was coming out.
They were like " wha--?"
Half a step is better than no step at all.
This way people get to at least play the damn game.
Besides, you can save a lot on localization if you don't feel the need, for example, to redub everything in english and limit yourself to text.
Of course it's not free, but it's as low as it gets, plus you're enriching your general offer, even if it doesn't translate into immediate 1:1 sales for that specific title, it'll make your line up look that much better, to have all these varied titles under your belt.
You never know what crazy shit a random PewDiePie may decide to play tomorrow and turn into a cult hit.
Wii U naming is shit.
But yes, changing that to Wii 2 wouldn't have solved much. Maybe it'd solve some brand confusion but the product still succumbed to arrogance and ignorance on Nintendo's part. Plenty of products have survived shitty names. It just so happens that this wasn't one of them.
It's still fairly interesting how a "name" feels like it raises a higher level of implications the more time goes and has ingrained itself into public conscience.
But yes, changing that to Wii 2 wouldn't have solved much. Maybe it'd solve some brand confusion but the product still succumbed to arrogance and ignorance on Nintendo's part. Plenty of products have survived shitty names. It just so happens that this wasn't one of them.
It's still fairly interesting how a "name" feels like it raises a higher level of implications the more time goes and has ingrained itself into public conscience.
yes. one takes up far more internal resources versus the other.
according to pranger, noa was set to release it once noe had done all the work. i'm with you on the outrage if noa was going to just let it stay in noe, but apparently that was not the case.
quality editors and translators aren't a dime a dozen. games with lots of text can take upwards of a year or more to do.
I don't know about you Guys, but I feel like this image sums up how the WiiU was handled in the beginning.
i think the 'wii doesn't have core games' argument is pretty much bullshit. nintendo of america would have been working on ds, wii, and 3ds games at the time. putting a niche rpg with a shitload of text in there was always going to be a struggle when so many games had the potential to sell better or at least require less attention over time.
NoE at that time had a studio somewhere in Germany, exclusive contractors, who did all the games for them. They closed that down about a year ago and now all the projects go to culturetranslate as seen on their webpage.
As for the cost it really depends on how good you want the text to be and how fast it needs to be done and so on. I think that Nintendo completes the game and text first and then starts with the localization, but not sure if they do that anymore, given that most of the projects have to be done faster and for less money nowadays. There are companies that still do not take localization seriously and there are some that do.
As for internally or externally, it depends on how many people you would need on the payroll internally to stay unter the price of an outsourcing agency.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Returning to the thread for the first time since the first page with a question that's been bothering me:
If ocalization is so costly and expensive (which it is), why don't NoA and NoE ever work together to subsidize the expense of western translations?
Why split their resources to translate the same game, like Fire Emblem or Smash Bros, and end up with two English versions of the same game? Does that seem incredibly wasteful to anyone else?
If ocalization is so costly and expensive (which it is), why don't NoA and NoE ever work together to subsidize the expense of western translations?
Why split their resources to translate the same game, like Fire Emblem or Smash Bros, and end up with two English versions of the same game? Does that seem incredibly wasteful to anyone else?
Hm, maybe it has something to do with American and British English? I don't know how picky the respective speakers are.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Not localising something with english/native languages is a automatic death sentence. They at least wanted to try and make rhythm heaven and xenoblade a success, which is why it was dubbed.
If xenoblade had no english dub, you're automatically relegating it to the small Japanophile audience, which despite what you think, is absolutely not a vast majority.
vainglorious
Member
If anyone still thinks we're getting a physical release of Fatal Frame 5 in NA... abandon all hope ye who enter this thread.
There's a difference between being risk adverse and risk adverse to the point of self sabotage. And the comment about that Rainbow whatever game being too Japanese strikes me as being odd because uh... Nintendo is still a Japanese company.
The business culture at NOA doesn't inspire confidence after reading this interview.
Edit -
Also the Wii U name at launch was met with universal disbelief. Nobody needed hindsight to know how much of a disaster it was going to be.
There's a difference between being risk adverse and risk adverse to the point of self sabotage. And the comment about that Rainbow whatever game being too Japanese strikes me as being odd because uh... Nintendo is still a Japanese company.
The business culture at NOA doesn't inspire confidence after reading this interview.
Edit -
Also the Wii U name at launch was met with universal disbelief. Nobody needed hindsight to know how much of a disaster it was going to be.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Certainly making minor changes to spelling and grammar is a more feasible expense than fully retranslating the entire game, though.
Why don't they each do half the game, trade material, and make necessary edits to suit the region?
Releasing a game in the non-native language of the reason basically guarantees its failure. You have your minority/majority backwards. The audience willing to play a game in Japanese if they speak German or English is not substantial.
This is different from film or anime because people seeking out foreign cinema are aware of its cultural origin. They associate samurai movies or anime with Japan, know they're from Japan, and have a different expectation of the product.
Video games are "global." People expect them, no matter where they're from, to be in their language.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It probably depends on the game and target release dates. But localizing during the development cycle is more expensive because until the text is finalized things are fluid and may need to be redone, content might be cut that had already been fully localized, and so on. A lot of time and money is "wasted" on things that never see the light of day in the final product.