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NOA localizer insists Xenoblade too risky, defends Wii U naming
- Thread starter Agent Unknown
- Start date
Basically, Hes saying that that Nintendo should be convinced by projections that you are no longer worth making games for.
Haunted
Member
Yup. If there's one company that can not afford to pick and choose only guaranteed profitable projects instead of taking a financial hit here and there to improve their library and generate some goodwill amongst their fanbase, it's Nintendo.
NOA proving that they have now idea how to properly pick and choose those titles (as evidenced by the Xenoblade example) doesn't inspire much confidence, either. With decisions like that, it's easy to see why they're continuing to lose ground and relevance in the bigger picture.
Lol ok, never mind then and move on haha
He's talking about how not everything people want to be localized will be bought. They're often a small portion of the market and rarely justify the cost. NoA was watching the JRPG market the entire time when Xenoblade was released to see how it was performing as reported by NWR.
He's right in saying the hardest part for people to understand and accept is that they think they're right when they're not, and demanding localizations for games with huge risks then going off saying "it well sell! why don't you want my money!!" every company wants your money but they're also taking risks into consideration and if it's plausible in the current market at this time. Was it dumb that Xenoblade had to get fan reaction? You bet. But you're doing just as he or any person on any localization team in any company describes as "you people" that don't make up a significant portion to make that risk a reward and demand for everything to be localized by a single company. Look at Nintendo now though, they're willing to work with other localization companies like Xseed now, and have been working with 8-4 since Mario Tennis on the GBA. Their localization output has actually been better this gen as well. A lot has changed since then but he still speaks the truth that not everything cannot be localized due to huger risks. There's still much to be improved however like release dates and those dry spells.
And look at the market for JRPGs in the west at that time. The current market was hating on everything about JRPGs and publishers had made the shift to handhelds. All that was left were risk adverse sure hitters on consoles like Final Fantasy, and then you have this new-comer with a small interest because of the Xeno name in the title. It wasn't called a savior of consoles JRPGs until after it was localized, not before.
But I do give credit to Operation Rainfall. Before they showed up I actually wasn't even aware of the game. I probably would not have been too interested in the game had they not shown up and seeing GAF and GameFAQs posts on the battle system had me more intrigued. It did well despite all odds. People actually put their money where their mouth is which is not something that happens often and why many companies are forced to make these financial decisions and say no. The endless praise from those who had it helped propel it, but had the game not been good and people just demanding for demanding sake of a console JRPG it could have been a financial disaster with all the work put into. Hell, even if the game was amazing (it is) there's a large chance it could have still done poorly had no one put their money where their mouth it.
I even think back to Shu Yoshida's Twitter post he said one day in Japanese that no one seems to want to buy good games anymore, in reference to Puppeteer bombing. Even good games can bomb and no matter the praise or demand from us it still happens because we are tiny compared to the rest of the world.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Wait I don't get it, if they didn't believe (and still don't seem to believe) in Xenoblade, why make Chronicle X a front runner title for the Wii U? Why bring shulk to smash?
The reason I say they don't believe in it is because when NoE got xenoblade on the wii u eshop NoA should have gotten it as well, since the fanbase has to exist.
Like...it can't not exist because then you wouldn't have pushed chronicle X as hard as you pushed it.
Then again they have been easing off on it, maybe they don't believe in it anymore.
Whatever nintendo just make your shit region free so that we don't have to rely on your idiots to decide what I can and can't play.
The reason I say they don't believe in it is because when NoE got xenoblade on the wii u eshop NoA should have gotten it as well, since the fanbase has to exist.
Like...it can't not exist because then you wouldn't have pushed chronicle X as hard as you pushed it.
Then again they have been easing off on it, maybe they don't believe in it anymore.
Whatever nintendo just make your shit region free so that we don't have to rely on your idiots to decide what I can and can't play.
They believe now and have changed since. They've been localizing much more than they have before with very few missed games at all. They learned that there can be some reward to the risks, even look at Tomodachi Life as an example. It's a super weird Japanese-centric title but performed really well.
It performed fan-fucking-tastically. 4.3 mil and a smash hit in Europe, lol.
Oh the Xbox One is a horrible name as well. The difference is that Microsoft made damn sure people understood it was a brand new console and the successor to the Xbox 360. Their advertising made that clear. Nintendo didn't do that and failed to address that for months if not years and it can be argued they still haven't properly addressed it. That is largely on Nintendo of America for handling the marketing and doing a piss poor job at it. I say this a someone that saw and lived through the marketing for the Wii and Wii U. Something really bad had to have happen within Nintendo of America after the Wii's launch because there was a nose dive in how they handled things in it's later years up to now..
Now the Xenoblade issue is NoA being incompetent. There is no other way for me to look at this situation. There were so many things wrong with how they handled that game and that continued after NoE had already localized it. Hell one can say it's still being handled poorly by NoA when it comes to the eShop release of that game.
Localization cost money. That's for all games. That cost has to be looked at in regard to the creation of the game as well and getting your money back. I don't get why NCL even gave NoA a choice in the matter. You don't buy a company and have them create a huge RPG in hopes that it fills a very significant void (because Nintendo systems do not get new Final Fantasy games. They don't get other JRPG games anymore. They don't get western RPG games. The reasons for that are 100% on Nintendo in regard to their past actions, hardware design choices, etc. So they have to address the lack of games themselves.) and then not release it in all of your major markets, especially your largest market. How Xenoblade was handled makes no F'n sense.
I'm almost certain Xeno (Wii) will be on the eShop for NA near the launch of XenoX in NA, that's how they like to operate to some degree.
I believe they did that with Metroid Prime 3 before. Releasing Super Metroid just a week before the launch of MP3.
i think part of what happens is when you join a company and enjoy working there, it colors your perspective to where it makes sense to you that you're doing the things you're doing. after all, you're not crazy. all you can do is explain to the best of your ability why decisions were made. i actually 'get' why xenoblade happened the way it did. the wii u name was and still is dumb though, like most things about the console.
IMO large companies like to throw around the "it's too niche" excuse more often than they should. I understand there isn't enough audience for everything, but they are more often wrong in their estimates than they'd like to admit, and the kickstarter success of so many "too niche" games goes to prove that.
Either way, it's not just about the cost vs. sales of one title. It's also about catering to certain audiences. Releasing games like Xenoblade on a console that's so filled with family games is going to make the whole console more attractive to older, more "hardcore" gamers. Once they have the console, they're going to spend money on other games as well.
Either way, it's not just about the cost vs. sales of one title. It's also about catering to certain audiences. Releasing games like Xenoblade on a console that's so filled with family games is going to make the whole console more attractive to older, more "hardcore" gamers. Once they have the console, they're going to spend money on other games as well.
UberTag
Member
One week is all the time one needs to play Xenoblade Chronicles. Sounds like a good plan.
They'll probably do it earlier which would be preferred tbh.
Anyway, I'm supposed to be asleep. I gotta be up and represent hot dogs in Splatfest!
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I think its short-sighted to skip Xenoblade due to low sales potential, because there are many other long term benefits, such as instilling confidence into the user base that they wouldn't abandon their console here, filling in the drought where there's nothing for Wii coming out etc. How do you expect the 3rd party to have confident and invest in your console in the future when you yourself is so much ready to dump it?
boiled goose
good with gravy
Hyrule warriors,wind Waker HD, and animal crossing are risky localizations?? C'mon haha
W101 wasn't aggressive. It was sENT to die.
I meant aggressive in the business sense.Microsoft was aggressive with online last gen and it paid off. Nintendo launched wiiu with half baked online and its games still lack standard online features.
WiiU was a terrible risk hardware wise but a terribly safe choice software wise, unlike the wiI and DS.
Nintendo should have innovated hard on miiverse and online integration for their games from the start of this gen. Things like qol are crowded with competition now.
The problem with this, is that Xenoblade is not like those other JRPG's they were watching.
Takahashi did a brilliant job of pointing out the difference in fundamental design direction between modern jrpg's and xenoblade.
a summation goes something like this: 'People liked Xenoblade, because it gave them something they had not seen for a very long time. They felt like Xenoblade was an evolution of 16-bit jrpg design, where that kind of design would be today, had it continued with modern technology.'
I dont buy many jrpg's, at least not new, because I dont like most jrpg's anymore.
I instantly knew I wanted xenoblade the moment I saw that exploration trailer, because it hit on all the things I used to play jrpgs for.
But why do they have to voice it though?
They could get the localisation done through a free fan service, as there are always hardcore enough fans to do the translation. They could pay them a % of the profits if there are any.
The UI elements that need translating would need money for.
After that, they can just stick it on the online store, make a couple of press releases and send out review copies to the large publications.
Actually I have an idea that they should design the game to make it very easily translatable and that fans can upload their own translations as an language update.
They could get the localisation done through a free fan service, as there are always hardcore enough fans to do the translation. They could pay them a % of the profits if there are any.
The UI elements that need translating would need money for.
After that, they can just stick it on the online store, make a couple of press releases and send out review copies to the large publications.
Actually I have an idea that they should design the game to make it very easily translatable and that fans can upload their own translations as an language update.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Milly Osworth
Member
This guy sounds annoying and he is not really doing his job of promoting Nintendo by the looks of it.
Well, I think his job actually revolves more around translating from japanese to english.
But I have no doubt the sentiments he expressed are running deep somewhere in nintendo judging by the actions they have taken.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Well, he was being very defensive in this interview.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Still, you have it localised in English, fix the British English to American English minor bits and pieces and put it on the eShop. Not a huge cost for a company certainly not releasing too many games all the time.
Noe and Noa should just coordinate localizations to cut costs. Use the same actors and change whatever small lines of dialogue u have to.
It's a global marketplace. To be honest localizations should just be done as part of development
Agent Unknown
Member
Regarding NOA's increasing willingness to bring over JRPGs, it will be interesting to see what happens when Sony likely brings the PS4 version of DQ 11 to the west. If so, hopefully that will put pressure on either SE or Nintendo to localize the 3DS or NX game. Would look foolish to have only one version available in NA.
Ah, sorry, so I did. Aside from that, who cares that I accidentally triple posted? Really.
Ah, sorry, so I did. Aside from that, who cares that I accidentally triple posted? Really.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Can't find it on iTunes
Agent Unknown
Member
Can't find it on iTunes
Try searching using the podcast app instead.
I don't know who Chris Pranger is or what he's going on about, but someone should tell him that having a debate by yourself and presenting counter-arguments to your argument in a silly nasal voice is rarely the sign of an untroubled conscience. If his points are valid, he's basically just undermining his own credibility. I fear it won't be long before he publicly berates a random piece of furniture for being a politician he hates.
YianGaruga
Banned
Here's a thing I don't get about localization decisions like this.
It's totally fine to greenlight a huge project like Xenoblade in Japan, exclusively for the relatively small Japanese market.
But after the game is made and exists and millions have been spent on it, greenlighting a localization for one additional language (I know there's more to it than that) and making it accessible to a huge additional market is an incalculable risk? I mean there niche and there's niche, and it's pretty obvious that a good looking open-world RPG has a market over here. We're not talking about something like Ciel nosurge.
Not to mention NOA wasn't willing to translate it into a single language but NoE was willing to translate it into FIVE languages.
Something doesn't add up here.
It's totally fine to greenlight a huge project like Xenoblade in Japan, exclusively for the relatively small Japanese market.
But after the game is made and exists and millions have been spent on it, greenlighting a localization for one additional language (I know there's more to it than that) and making it accessible to a huge additional market is an incalculable risk? I mean there niche and there's niche, and it's pretty obvious that a good looking open-world RPG has a market over here. We're not talking about something like Ciel nosurge.
Not to mention NOA wasn't willing to translate it into a single language but NoE was willing to translate it into FIVE languages.
Something doesn't add up here.
Team Filler
Member
Always love hearing "very Japanese" used to minimize a game's design or aesthetic. Lets me know to discount a large portion of the shit that person is about to spit.
Fox Mulder
Member
Which is funny because who the hell else can nintendo lean on if not for the hardcore. Their shit third party situation misses out on a larger audience, and the wii crowd never got on the wiiu boat.
Xenoblade was a game fans wanted, and had to beg for. On a console that seemingly turned away from them to cater to a new fickle audience that didn't stick around. Yes, what a waste of money.
PdotMichael
Banned
It's pretty obvious that NOA was still high from all the Soccermoms money.
In worst case a Xenoblade release would be fanservice for the Nintendocore audience which got quite ignored at that time from Nintendo or it could etablish another Nintendo IP on the North American market. There was nothing to lose for Nintendo here.
In worst case a Xenoblade release would be fanservice for the Nintendocore audience which got quite ignored at that time from Nintendo or it could etablish another Nintendo IP on the North American market. There was nothing to lose for Nintendo here.
boiled goose
good with gravy
It's called Nintendo failing to think globally
I would argue not localizing games your core fan base is demanding, and that diversify your library, is a bad business decision.
You don't have to pander to your fanbase, but you definitely want their goodwill. The other ones who sell the system for you in a sense through positive word of mouth, hype, and demos.
Wii and DS sold to casuals because early adopters show them off to their friends and families.
that's not true. a localization of xenoblade would have come at the cost of something else. there are not infinite resources (people + time) available to bring over every project. it could be that another text-heavy game could have yielded better results at the time. it could also be that several non text-heavy games could have been done instead of just one.
now personally? i'm glad it came over. i think it's a great game. as a business decision, i don't blame them. sometimes there's stuff you really want to do, but it makes sense to keep everyone on your team fed instead.
PdotMichael
Banned
NoE was capable of translating the very same game in five different languages (English was one of them). That's like the worst excuse and even the NOA localizer didn't use that.
Not that NoA's release list was crazy full at that time.
The cost of bringing a game to EU/NA isn't just that of translation/localization, there are many more aspects to consider. Plus there's the opportunity cost which means they have finite resources and that it's probable the workforce that spends such a long time working on such a massive localization could have spent that time and effort on something else that could have been more successful for the company.
And I know it's not Xenoblade's case but there some cases when companies know specific projects will not make them any money and in many cases localizing such projects, especially if they require a lot of resources, will only dig the hole deeper.
YianGaruga
Banned
I know there's more to it than that.
I still think creating a huge game like Xenoblade with just the Japanese market in mind is extremely strange and shortsighted. The cost of localization has to be a fraction of the cost of actually making the game.
There should be localization deals and cooperations with your international branches from the start for a project like this. It's a global business.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Bullshit, if you can't market the greatest JRPG ever made in North America... A massive, open-world, innovative JRPG, the type of thing NA gamers would eat up in an instant (100 hours of story for $60 wouldn't sell in NA?), then your marketing department is terrible, or your platform is so one dimensional that it can't support it, sorry.
If Xenoblade Chronicles was allowed to go multiplatform, it could have gained the audience it deserved. With proper hype, and a real marketing push, it could potentially have saved face of Japanese games and JRPG's in NA. NOA just needs to grow some balls, and broaden their ability to sell to more mature gamers,or stop obstructing awesome games from being played by gamers who would otherwise play them. Did Fatal Frame not previously have enough of an audience to demand 3 releases on PS2 in NA?
If Xenoblade Chronicles was allowed to go multiplatform, it could have gained the audience it deserved. With proper hype, and a real marketing push, it could potentially have saved face of Japanese games and JRPG's in NA. NOA just needs to grow some balls, and broaden their ability to sell to more mature gamers,or stop obstructing awesome games from being played by gamers who would otherwise play them. Did Fatal Frame not previously have enough of an audience to demand 3 releases on PS2 in NA?
UberTag
Member
I consider it a victory when NoA is able to think outside of their bubble for the American market. Thinking globally is probably too ambitious for them.
Though the name is awful, the Wii U had several other problems that confused consumers. For one, they didn't even show the console at the E3 where it debuted. They showed off the controller again and again, but the actual picture of the hardware was shoved somewhere on Nintendo's official website. Even after the conference, game journalists were completely confused about what it actually was. Not to mention they didn't show off any graphically impressive games.
One of the first titles shown was New Super Mario Bros. U which looks the exact same as the Wii version at first glance. We first saw that game in the Wii U reveal trailer. Off screen. For like four seconds. I remember I had no idea if that was a new Mario game or not. Seriously, watch that reveal trailer. It doesn't exactly scream "BRAND NEW SUPER AMAZING CONSOLE UNLIKE ANYTHING YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE." It says, "You can play New Super Mario Bros. with a controller that has a screen in it."
Also I find it amusing that Sony just pushed a number up and ended up with the least stupid name of all the current gen consoles.
One of the first titles shown was New Super Mario Bros. U which looks the exact same as the Wii version at first glance. We first saw that game in the Wii U reveal trailer. Off screen. For like four seconds. I remember I had no idea if that was a new Mario game or not. Seriously, watch that reveal trailer. It doesn't exactly scream "BRAND NEW SUPER AMAZING CONSOLE UNLIKE ANYTHING YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE." It says, "You can play New Super Mario Bros. with a controller that has a screen in it."
Also I find it amusing that Sony just pushed a number up and ended up with the least stupid name of all the current gen consoles.
OniBarubary
Banned
There's also something to be said for eating the cost to build brand loyalty. Hurt sales in one area often raises attachment and buys in others. If you bring out a title that only a niche fanbase will enjoy then they may spend more money later on to purchase other games or systems due to feeling grateful that a game they would never have gotten to play would come out.
It's very similar to the idea of loss leaders in stores. There are entire areas of marketing and manufacturing that are based around the idea of taking a loss in order to maximize profits later.
Localizing those niche RPGs for the 3DS gets me to put more money into 3DS games and faith in buying the next system because I see that they care about my tastes and thus it is worth the investment.
Obviously you need to take the risk with calculations on specific titles, but Xenoblade was not one of those titles.
It's very similar to the idea of loss leaders in stores. There are entire areas of marketing and manufacturing that are based around the idea of taking a loss in order to maximize profits later.
Localizing those niche RPGs for the 3DS gets me to put more money into 3DS games and faith in buying the next system because I see that they care about my tastes and thus it is worth the investment.
Obviously you need to take the risk with calculations on specific titles, but Xenoblade was not one of those titles.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Yup.
Noa during the second half of the wiis life is the most out of touch Noa has been with gamers.
Till the wiiu launch.
This guy gets it.
And Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, #FE, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third, and Xenoblade Chronicles X have been attempts to learn what happened with the Wii. For much good it did them. All that was been released flopped and people still think NoA doesn't take risks.
I agree that companies should listen to their fan base but you know sometimes listening to them isn't the best business move. Hype helps but only among "gamers" casuals or the people who just go to the store buy whatever doesn't even understand hype.
PdotMichael
Banned
NoA can only blame itself for cultivating a constumer base that only buys very specific games.
Admittedly, I've only read the quoted text, so maybe I'm not getting the full picture, but if I was a NA consumer, I wouldn't appreciate the tone of his language.
I get the point and understand that there are people out there who are just as he characterises, but there will be plenty more who are just gaming enthusiasts and who want to see the games they like brought to their market. That enthusiasm should be celebrated and, where ever possible, supported - not charicatured and mocked.
Those are the people who will buy your console for a specific franchise or game style and will then buy a load more games to fill in the gaps. They will explore your library and learn about your brand before communicating to others about it. They are your core audience and they will make sure your console survives through bad strategic decisions and lean sales periods.
NOA would do well to take a leaf out of NOE's book when it comes to looking after your customers. Not that they're perfect, but I seldom find myself feeling poorly served by them and while their communication tends to stay strictly on point, at least it doesn't resort to the patronising missives that seem to always be readily available from some NOA rep.
I get the point and understand that there are people out there who are just as he characterises, but there will be plenty more who are just gaming enthusiasts and who want to see the games they like brought to their market. That enthusiasm should be celebrated and, where ever possible, supported - not charicatured and mocked.
Those are the people who will buy your console for a specific franchise or game style and will then buy a load more games to fill in the gaps. They will explore your library and learn about your brand before communicating to others about it. They are your core audience and they will make sure your console survives through bad strategic decisions and lean sales periods.
NOA would do well to take a leaf out of NOE's book when it comes to looking after your customers. Not that they're perfect, but I seldom find myself feeling poorly served by them and while their communication tends to stay strictly on point, at least it doesn't resort to the patronising missives that seem to always be readily available from some NOA rep.