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[Spieler Eins]

NoA has become an anti-hardcore gamer shithouse, more news at 11.
Bless Shibata, I mean god forbid that you also keep certain niches happy on your platform to keep overall satisfaction high, regardless of smaller income for a few titles, whose localisation ,,losses'' will barely effect the overall financials anyway. Thank fuck all this arrogance is now coming right back at them.

 

[R_thanatos]

Just saw this thread . i can't help but to facepalm

OK captain rainbow is way too niche . but xenoblade has everything that IS mainstream.
Why do need an IP that is a rpg, open world in the current market ? who would buy something like this. /s

You look at something like even Xenoblade Chronicles. People love that game, you know, within a certain group. That game is not the type of game that just pulls in enough to justify the costs on that. So that’s like, we got it in the States by luck, that NoE decided “Oh, we’ll take the fall. We’ll localize that.” Okay, cause someone is going to have to eat the costs somewhere, because that game is guaranteed to not sell enough to justify how big that game is. You know, hundreds of hours, all voiced. That’s a lot of money that goes into that.

SO what ? history has proven you wrong .. you can still have profits if you market your high profiles games properly .. The problem is that you guys(nintendo) don't freaking market your games properly.
You have a high profile game ? then try to sell it. you guys have a freaking problem of not having a sufficent portfolio and then you don't TRY ? WTF

NoE actually tries to put games on your platform, so yeah you guys freaking hate money..because you don't even take the smallest of risks in order to change your brand.

YOu guys better say thanks to NOE.

And yeah, the Wii U name is stupid, taking a great idea ( wii ) and failling to understand why that idea was great.

 

[luffeN]

Why don't they each do half the game, trade material, and make necessary edits to suit the region?

This will be a nightmare for consistency if they don't split the text perfectly. Sure, you can always proofread and edit it later, but think about 10 people sitting in the US and 10 in the UK and you have several items that need to have a certain style and always the same translation. I am currently lacking a good example, but let's say an item is a "white dress" in one version and a "white gown" in the other. If a quest asks you to give somebody a white dress and you only have a white gown in your inventory, it will certainly not break the game but may lead to problems for gamers.

In theory localization sounds easy, "just" do this and that and organize it that way and you should be good, but even our small team in the same office has sometimes different versions of items etc. in the first draft.

 

[Raggie]

i think the 'wii doesn't have core games' argument is pretty much bullshit. nintendo of america would have been working on ds, wii, and 3ds games at the time. putting a niche rpg with a shitload of text in there was always going to be a struggle when so many games had the potential to sell better or at least require less attention over time.

How often did the Wii get high quality 3rd party core games? I mean games you'd buy the system for if you don't care for Nintendo IPs. Xenoblade was one of the top JRPGs of the generation across all consoles, and it came out when JRPG fans were hungry. For that segment it would have been one big carrot, if Nintendo would have made a point of trying to attract it. JRPGs are a niche genre in comparison to shooters and platformers, but it's not that niche. They are fairly popular with "hardcore" gamers.

Obviously there were games out there that would sell more copies, but that's not the point of Xenoblade. The point should have been making the console more relevant to an audience that's going to follow you across generations and turn the good games into hits. The Wii had a huge user base of people who were less passionate about gaming, and were buying whatever was cheap and looked attractive without any possibility to make more informed buying decisions. The Wii library had gems, but they were increasingly being drowned under a truckload of shovelware. Once people had been burned enough many times with bad games, they would stop playing altogether. Then who are you going to fall back on? That's the point of cultivating variety.

 

[Dice]

Niche JRPG fans will import if you don't region lock all your shit. Then your shit will sell more copies without even localizing it. Don't you want money?

How often did the Wii get high quality 3rd party core games? I mean games you'd buy the system for if you don't care for Nintendo IPs. Xenoblade was one of the top JRPGs of the generation across all consoles, and it came out when JRPG fans were hungry. For that segment it would have been one big carrot, if Nintendo would have made a point of trying to attract it. JRPGs are a niche genre in comparison to shooters and platformers, but it's not that niche. They are fairly popular with "hardcore" gamers.

Obviously there were games out there that would sell more copies, but that's not the point of Xenoblade. The point should have been making the console more relevant to an audience that's going to follow you across generations and turn the good games into hits. The Wii had a huge user base of people who were less passionate about gaming, and were buying whatever was cheap and looked attractive without any possibility to make more informed buying decisions. The Wii library had gems, but they were increasingly being drowned under a truckload of shovelware. Once people had been burned enough many times with bad games, they would stop playing altogether. Then who are you going to fall back on? That's the point of cultivating variety.

100% agree with this. Things that aren't risks become risks when you allow your console to fall off for those purposes so much. Wii U and Nintendo in general is slipping further into a "Nintendo-developed and shovelware" identity in the mindset of gamers, and it is keeping them away from the systems. The way to get them back is NOT to simply ignore everything but what you know will presently sell really well on it.

 

[Harlock]

Maybe the guy just don´t wanna problems with Nintendo and choose to defend those points, even if reality prove him wrong.

 

[SpotAnime]

I can definitely agree with him there - it's delusional to think Captain Rainbow or similar games would have anywhere near the appeal to not be a waste of manpower and resources. In hindsight, it's fairly obvious localising Xenoblade at all was a mistake on NoE's part - even with the 3DS port, it can't have been profitable.

On a side note, Captain Rainbow's translation is complete, but the translators are looking for programmers to help with completing the patch work:

I want to explain the situation once more: we are merely translators, and we did all our homework, all we could possibly do for now, as the translation is 100% complete. What we still miss is a patch that inserts our text in the game, which was still in the middle of development and very buggy. That's not something we can do alone, so we asked many people, we got few responses, but in the end no one could find the time to complete the process. The last person we had working on it is still reachable, he's just busy, and agreed to teach us (or someone else) what is needed to know to complete the patch, but we couldn't find the time for it.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

This will be a nightmare for consistency if they don't split the text perfectly. Sure, you can always proofread and edit it later, but think about 10 people sitting in the US and 10 in the UK and you have several items that need to have a certain style and always the same translation. I am currently lacking a good example, but let's say an item is a "white dress" in one version and a "white gown" in the other. If a quest asks you to give somebody a white dress and you only have a white gown in your inventory, it will certainly not break the game but may lead to problems for gamers.

In theory localization sounds easy, "just" do this and that and organize it that way and you should be good, but even our small team in the same office has sometimes different versions of items etc. in the first draft.

This is true. English in particular has a huge vocabulary and thousands of words that mean the same thing. Your dress and gown example is a good one.

So, to really work, one branch would have to do the whole localization and then the other branch would have to revise it properly for their region. And in that situation, one region would always get it late.

Not that this doesn't already happen. But we don't want to create more cause for that.

 

[McLovin]

Pretty sure we were complaining before it came out. People thought it was an attachment to the Wii before, during, and after it launched. People still do.

 

[luffeN]

So, to really work, one branch would have to do the whole localization and then the other branch would have to revise it properly for their region. And in that situation, one region would always get it late.

The thing is that a proper organization can really help with a project. I don't know how many languages are standard in the US, but European Nintendo games have at least had FIGS (French, Italian, German, Spanish). So someone needs to do a Japanese to English translation and then English to FIGS I guess. So in this case NoA? probably does J to AE and then NoE? AE to BE and FIGS. When everything is said and done they then can release the game in both markets at the same time. But this is without a doubt easier said than done.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Certainly making minor changes to spelling and grammar is a more feasible expense than fully retranslating the entire game, though.

Why don't they each do half the game, trade material, and make necessary edits to suit the region?

that wont easily work. you'll have inconsistencies in translations style etc. which is editing hell

 

[AniHawk]

How often did the Wii get high quality 3rd party core games? I mean games you'd buy the system for if you don't care for Nintendo IPs. Xenoblade was one of the top JRPGs of the generation across all consoles, and it came out when JRPG fans were hungry. For that segment it would have been one big carrot, if Nintendo would have made a point of trying to attract it. JRPGs are a niche genre in comparison to shooters and platformers, but it's not that niche. They are fairly popular with "hardcore" gamers.

this isn't the argument. the argument is that nintendo had to maximize the return on investment. square-enix is the same way - they won't bring over dqvii because dqvii has a fucking shitload of text. instead of having a year of time from a translator and an editor tied to that game, they could have those same people working on two games that might not sell as well as dq vii on their own, but make more money combined.

Obviously there were games out there that would sell more copies, but that's not the point of Xenoblade. The point should have been making the console more relevant to an audience that's going to follow you across generations and turn the good games into hits. The Wii had a huge user base of people who were less passionate about gaming, and were buying whatever was cheap and looked attractive without any possibility to make more informed buying decisions. The Wii library had gems, but they were increasingly being drowned under a truckload of shovelware. Once people had been burned enough many times with bad games, they would stop playing altogether. Then who are you going to fall back on? That's the point of cultivating variety.

shovelware is what happens on popular platforms. it means that the platform is successful enough that a ton of games can do well over a variety of genres. the games you like may have been overwhelmed by games you don't like, but it didn't mean those games didn't exist.

xenoblade and any others like it wouldn't have changed perception of the platform where punch-out, sin & punishment 2, monster hunter 3, super mario galaxy 2, and donkey kong country failed.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

that wont easily work. you'll have inconsistencies in translations style etc. which is editing hell

Yeah, we were talking about that just above. It was a very short-sighted proposal.

 

[TheMagician]

The problem here is that Nintendo have made some really poor decisions and those decisions are being defended by the people who work there. That's a real issue and tells me that Nintendo might not yet be ready to move towards being successful again. It was very clear to anyone with a knowledge of branding/marketing that the Wii U name wouldn't cut it. If you only saw this in hindsight then you aren't good enough to be in the job. End of.

With regards to Xenoblade, although a game like this might not make a ton of money on its own, it helps to diversify the gaming lineup, attracting a different type of audience, and in doing so bringing in people who will buy different types of software going forward. I know someone who bought a Wii just to play Xenoblade, he then bought No More Heroes 1/2, Metroid Prime 3 and Super Mario Galaxy. If Xenoblade wasn't released, he wouldn't have bought any of those games.

 

[kuroneko0509]

Yeah, we were talking about that just above. It was a very short-sighted proposal.

ah yeah just realized it... silly me for not realizing new page lol

 

[thefro]

I listened to the whole podcast when it came out and the OP is mis-characterizing his talk on the Wii U name. He mentioned his mom even talked to him and thought she just needed to buy the gamepad to play Wii U games on her Wii. Just changing the name of the console to Wii 2 may have helped but it may not have changed the situation of the console.

 

[FStubbs]

Most of the games they publish are cheaper to handle than games like Xenoblade and Last Story, which have tons of voice acting that needed to be recorded. Using Japanese audio is not always a cheap or easy solution to get around that either. And despite the impression a vocal minority on the Internet give, most English speakers want to play in English.

A company like Nintendo might be able to profit off of a smaller release, but the question for them is, is there something else that would be a better investment? Opportunity cost. Niche publishers don't really have to deal with that, they pick up what they can reasonably to have things to release. If they think a game will be profitable at all it's probably worth it to try and pick it up.

Nintendo is also a much bigger company that can't operate on the same margins as niche publishers. Those companies may have a couple dozen employees or less for the entire company. Nintendo needs a lot more revenue to make ends meet.

The problem with the "opportunity cost" argument in regards to Nintendo is that they are content starved. They don't have very many other games coming out for their platform, first or third party. The choice back then wasn't "Xenoblade/Last Window/etc or a dozen cheaper-to-localize games that will sell about the same." The choice was "Xenoblade/Last Window/etc or no content at all", and NoA consistently chose the latter.

 

[FStubbs]

So how is that NOA's fault exactly?

Stop complaining about NOA when you know where the source of the issue lies.

Not only that, the Xenoblade titles barely moved a needle in Japan. That's just plain idiocy to greenlight something like that nowadays.

Xenoblade is the type of jRPG that would appeal far more to the West than Japan. You know, the types of games Nintendo needs to make more of across all genres.

 

[jeffers]

I listened to the whole podcast when it came out and the OP is mis-characterizing his talk on the Wii U name. He mentioned his mom even talked to him and thought she just needed to buy the gamepad to play Wii U games on her Wii. Just changing the name of the console to Wii 2 may have helped but it may not have changed the situation of the console.

yeah what I feared when I saw this thread be made, people will go off the headline mostly, if not that then whats in the OP, then about 1-5% of people will bother to get the audio clip.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

And how does that awful event even relate to this discussion?

He's referring to another poster directly encouraging him to go harass this guy on Twitter instead of just venting on GAF. That's pretty standard GG stuff and tends to escalate quickly.

 

[Raggie]

this isn't the argument. the argument is that nintendo had to maximize the return on investment. square-enix is the same way - they won't bring over dqvii because dqvii has a fucking shitload of text. instead of having a year of time from a translator and an editor tied to that game, they could have those same people working on two games that might not sell as well as dq vii on their own, but make more money combined.

And that's the short-sighted way of looking things. There are more things to consider besides the costs versus profits of single titles, it's also important to consider your game collection as a whole. The Wii catalogue was very one-side and certain genres were not well represented at all. This made the console unappealing to an audience that's worth catering to. It's a very different deal with DQVII, because there are plenty of good games on the same platform to appeal to the same people who would buy DQVII.

shovelware is what happens on popular platforms. it means that the platform is successful enough that a ton of games can do well over a variety of genres. the games you like may have been overwhelmed by games you don't like, but it didn't mean those games didn't exist.

xenoblade and any others like it wouldn't have changed perception of the platform where punch-out, sin & punishment 2, monster hunter 3, super mario galaxy 2, and donkey kong country failed.

The problem of shovelware on the Wii is that the majority of its userbase was so uneducated on games, and were not able to pick up the good ones from the pile of junk. These people would buy the license game for their kids and leave Super Mario Galaxy 2 on the shelf if the latter cost more than twice as much. It's different from core gamers, who follow the industry and know what's good. Quality didn't get to shine on the Wii because it largely had an audience that didn't know any better.

 

[Diffense]

Yeah, I can't deal with people talking as if NIntendo is a third party publisher and not a first party with a machine to support almost single-handedly.

NIntendo doesn't have the luxury of only releasing blockbusters. If they want to do that, I'm sure Sony and Microsoft would accomodate them.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

*Looks at thread*

So, show of hands...


Who actually bothered to listen to the podcast?


On paper what he said sounds much worse than hearing it on the podcast. He was merely saying that just because something has a "loud voice" on the internet/gaming forums doesn't mean that there's actually a large enough base to support a localization. That actually reminds me of Sengoku Basara. No matter what Capcom did, it failed in the West. They tried "westernizing it", they tried changing as little as possible, they even tried releasing it after releasing both anime seasons. Nothing worked. That being the case, they stopped localizing the games and stopped dubbing the anime. There just wasn't a market, and saying "Well, put a large marketing push behind it!" would have probably lead to losses if they hadn't already lost money on it. The risk vs. reward for a niche game in a niche genre having a sizable marketing push just wasn't worth it to Capcom.

People also have to remember that what XSeed sees as "acceptable/good" returns is in an entirely different realm than what Nintendo considers "acceptable/good" returns. Xseed is a subsidiary of a small cap group (600 million stock) while Nintendo oscillates between being a mid cap and large cap (they are currently 26.6 billion). Marvelous (Xseed's parent) deals in revenues of 160 million dollars, Nintendo deals in revenues of 5.1 billion and above (tens of billions during the Wii/DS era). They aren't going to have the same behavior nor are they going to have the same expectations.

 

[The Maverick]

shovelware is what happens on popular platforms. it means that the platform is successful enough that a ton of games can do well over a variety of genres. the games you like may have been overwhelmed by games you don't like, but it didn't mean those games didn't exist.

xenoblade and any others like it wouldn't have changed perception of the platform where punch-out, sin & punishment 2, monster hunter 3, super mario galaxy 2, and donkey kong country failed.

OK. Why do you think the games you listed failed by the way?

 

[KiTA]

Releasing a game in the non-native language of the reason basically guarantees its failure. You have your minority/majority backwards. The audience willing to play a game in Japanese if they speak German or English is not substantial.

This is different from film or anime because people seeking out foreign cinema are aware of its cultural origin. They associate samurai movies or anime with Japan, know they're from Japan, and have a different expectation of the product.

Video games are "global." People expect them, no matter where they're from, to be in their language.

Ah, ok. Then just dummy out the voice acting. All of it. Problem solved?

 

[Kusagari]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how NoA can't translate games like Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora's Tower and make a profit but XSeed can.

How does that make any sense? Are XSeed some magical translators that do it at much lower cost?

 

[Pikma]

*Looks at thread*

So, show of hands...


Who actually bothered to listen to the podcast?

To think this is one of the few times a Nintendo employee has shared his/her personal opinions publicly...

 

[Magusx]

Even if they would sell with some loss they should take it.
There are almost no rpgs on Wii u....

 

[TheMagician]

And that's the short-sighted way of looking things. There are more things to consider besides the costs versus profits of single titles, it's also important to consider your game collection as a whole. The Wii catalogue was very one-side and certain genres were not well represented at all. This made the console unappealing to an audience that's worth catering to. It's a very different deal with DQVII, because there are plenty of good games on the same platform to appeal to the same people who would buy DQVII.



The problem of shovelware on the Wii is that the majority of its userbase was so uneducated on games, and were not able to pick up the good ones from the pile of junk. These people would buy the license game for their kids and leave Super Mario Galaxy 2 on the shelf if the latter cost more than twice as much. It's different from core gamers, who follow the industry and know what's good. Quality didn't get to shine on the Wii because it largely had an audience that didn't know any better.

Agree with the first paragraph, but kinda disagree with the second. Doesn't help SMG2 was used as the example when the SMG games sold nearly 20 million copies between them. Wii software sales for the best games were mostly very good.

 

[Pikma]

Even if they would sell with some loss they should take it.
There are almost no rpgs on Wii u....

But they're actually doing it, what are you talking about?

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Ah, ok. Then just dummy out the voice acting. All of it. Problem solved?

Nintendo's answer is usually to have made up languages, like Midna's or Chozo. Or just simple sounds or laughter to accompany the text.

 

[Adam Tyner]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how NoA can't translate games like Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora's Tower and make a profit but XSeed can.

I can see how that could happen. It's sort of similar to major Hollywood studios vs. smaller prestige/arthouse shops. What it takes to succeed in one of those arenas is worlds removed from what it takes to succeed in the other.

For one, a small, nimble, efficient-because-they-have-to-be team can sometimes accomplish things that a larger, more conservative, lumbering behemoth like Nintendo can't. A Nintendo localization probably requires more overhead, more red tape, and a higher cost than XSeed. XSeed is also better equipped to find a way to reach a somewhat niche game's target audience than NoA. Nintendo is probably also more concerned with opportunity costs (if we're devoting resources to localizing this, what are we not going to be able to devote those resources to as a result?), and they might demand a higher return on their investment.

These numbers aren't meant to be real, but let's say XSeed spends $2 million bringing a game to market, getting it on store shelves, and marketing it. Their cut of the sales winds up being $3.5 million. They nearly doubled their investment, which is great! If Nintendo were to get a $1.5 million return on their (probably much higher) investment, they might think "why did we bother?"

 

[Finale Fireworker]

ah yeah just realized it... silly me for not realizing new page lol

You have irreparably wounded my honor; I must now leave NeoGAF forever.

 

[foxuzamaki]

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is how NoA can't translate games like Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora's Tower and make a profit but XSeed can.

How does that make any sense? Are XSeed some magical translators that do it at much lower cost?

Xseed has a couple dozen employees, nintendo has atleast a thousand.

 

[geordiemp]

Nintendo are too much into their Nintendo like profits and is part reason why they are where they are in the console space, these type of conversations should not even take place.

 

[Nakho]

I don't see how someone can say in good faith that Xenoblade is some kind of ultra-niche game. Marketed properly and with those great reviews, it could have sold a million just in NA easily. Especially in 2012, when the JRPG crowd was famined for games.

 

[AnkiRendan]

*Looks at thread*

So, show of hands...


Who actually bothered to listen to the podcast?


On paper what he said sounds much worse than hearing it on the podcast. He was merely saying that just because something has a "loud voice" on the internet/gaming forums doesn't mean that there's actually a large enough base to support a localization. That actually reminds me of Sengoku Basara. No matter what Capcom did, it failed in the West. They tried "westernizing it", they tried changing as little as possible, they even tried releasing it after releasing both anime seasons. Nothing worked. That being the case, they stopped localizing the games and stopped dubbing the anime. There just wasn't a market, and saying "Well, put a large marketing push behind it!" would have probably lead to losses if they hadn't already lost money on it. The risk vs. reward for a niche game in a niche genre having a sizable marketing push just wasn't worth it to Capcom.

People also have to remember that what XSeed sees as "acceptable/good" returns is in an entirely different realm than what Nintendo considers "acceptable/good" returns. Xseed is a subsidiary of a small cap group (600 million stock) while Nintendo oscillates between being a mid cap and large cap (they are currently 26.6 billion). Marvelous (Xseed's parent) deals in revenues of 160 million dollars, Nintendo deals in revenues of 5.1 billion and above (tens of billions during the Wii/DS era). They aren't going to have the same behavior nor are they going to have the same expectations.

Sengoku Basara's anime is still being released here. The End of Judgement's being worked on as we speak. Funimation said the anime's sales were good, but not as big as they'd hoped.

But yeah, not sure how you thought the anime stopped getting a dub considering both seasons and the movie came over.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Xenoblade didn't make a profit though. I'm pretty sure it didin't sell a million copies worldwide. The sequel probably won't make it, either. That's a MAJOR loss to take on, regardless of the platform's success, especially when you consider how much has to go into localization of a game that size.

Being digital only wouldn't have helped either, especially when you consider marketing the thing. Not only that, there'd be a lot of people upset that you couldn't get a retail copy of it, especially when it would be full price. It's a lose-lose situation, no matter how you slice it.

Honestly, Nintendo needs to reign in Monolith's spending on bloated projects that aren't going anywhere. It feels like they have free reign, regardless of price.

You don't actually have any idea how much a game like Xenoblade costs for development or localization, do you? Xenoblade was not a game that they had to sell "millions" to somehow make a profit off of. There's a large difference between the cost of a AAA niche rpg made by Nintendo and a AAA rpg made by a company like Bioware, guess who isn't spending more than the game cost to develop on marketing or using hundreds and hundreds of people for development? Now guess what happens when you don't market your game outside of Japan and it still does better than the country you marketed it in? You really think this game didn't see profits when a sequel was greenlit, a portable port was made and they even had a character in the latest Smash to show off that his game existed?

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Sengoku Basara's anime is still being released here. The End of Judgement's being worked on as we speak. Funimation said the anime's sales were good, but not as big as they'd hoped.

But yeah, not sure how you thought the anime stopped getting a dub considering both seasons and the movie came over.

Didn't know about the 3rd anime series getting a dub since they released the sub and haven't made a peep about a dub in almost a year now (I still can't find a single peep about it). But the point still stands about the game series. They tried and it didn't work out which is why we didn't get 2, 3 Utage, 4, or 4 Sumeragi and probably won't be getting 5 should there be one. That's all the guy was saying in the podcast, that sometimes things don't have a large enough fanbase to justify releases (he gave the example of Captain Rainbow which sold 22,000 in Japan).

 

[ShockingAlberto]

*Looks at thread*

So, show of hands...


Who actually bothered to listen to the podcast?


On paper what he said sounds much worse than hearing it on the podcast. He was merely saying that just because something has a "loud voice" on the internet/gaming forums doesn't mean that there's actually a large enough base to support a localization. That actually reminds me of Sengoku Basara. No matter what Capcom did, it failed in the West. They tried "westernizing it", they tried changing as little as possible, they even tried releasing it after releasing both anime seasons. Nothing worked. That being the case, they stopped localizing the games and stopped dubbing the anime. There just wasn't a market, and saying "Well, put a large marketing push behind it!" would have probably lead to losses if they hadn't already lost money on it. The risk vs. reward for a niche game in a niche genre having a sizable marketing push just wasn't worth it to Capcom.

People also have to remember that what XSeed sees as "acceptable/good" returns is in an entirely different realm than what Nintendo considers "acceptable/good" returns. Xseed is a subsidiary of a small cap group (600 million stock) while Nintendo oscillates between being a mid cap and large cap (they are currently 26.6 billion). Marvelous (Xseed's parent) deals in revenues of 160 million dollars, Nintendo deals in revenues of 5.1 billion and above (tens of billions during the Wii/DS era). They aren't going to have the same behavior nor are they going to have the same expectations.

I think the thrust of the counter-argument is: Tough shit, you're a platform holder.

Sony goes out of their way to ensure games with terrible ROI, like Tales of Hearts R and Yazkua 5, that aren't even published by them get localized in America.

When Nintendo was at the top of the industry, they had hands-down their worst publishing-to-localization record they have had in fifteen years. So it's not about profit, it's not about market position, it's about some people going "Nah, the people who do like this aren't people we want playing our system."

Which, man, that sounds like a really smart strategy until you need those people and they're not out buying your next system.

 

[NHarmonic.]

I believe that if it was marketed correctly, Xenoblade could've done well. After all it's such an amazing game.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Even with region free people would still complain. That is what happened to Xenoblade despite the Wii region lock being trivial to break for anyone who can follow step by step instructions at that point* and the game costing less than $50 to import. That is no justification for region lock but a region free console would at least it change the paradigm.

Captain Rainbow is a straw man (sold terribly in Japan, is basically robot chicken except with a load of characters from Japan exclusive games). Much better ones to bring up would be Another code: R (a sequel to a niche game), Tingle RPG (a spin-off featuring a disliked character) and Disaster (remember all those bits from disaster films yep it happens here) as in all three cases the answer is a simple NOE bomba making it a high risk to actually publish (likewise Excitebots and Glory of Heracles are NOA bomba).

*-Speaking of which considering how many fumbled when it came to systems transfers on the 3DS it would seem step by step instructions are still complicated.

truth be told with rise of digital gaming, and theirs has gained a lot over the years, couldnt they just release it as a digital download?

If it needs testing that is kind of a fixed cost. One way to avoid that cost is to you know have a region free console.

Gamecube lifetime sales were 22 million. Wii U sales are in the 10 million range.

Where'd the last 12 million of that old guard go?

Gamecube was $99 at this point in time and started at $200. It also had an extensive range of $20 titles.

The thing is that a proper organization can really help with a project. I don't know how many languages are standard in the US, but European Nintendo games have at least had FIGS (French, Italian, German, Spanish). So someone needs to do a Japanese to English translation and then English to FIGS I guess. So in this case NoA? probably does J to AE and then NoE? AE to BE and FIGS. When everything is said and done they then can release the game in both markets at the same time. But this is without a doubt easier said than done.

Devil's Tird and Project Zero 5 show that this sadly is no longer true. Former is English and French only latter is English, French and German only.

NOE have undergone restructuring in the past year so it looks like the consequence is they have to be more careful when it comes to localisation now.

NOE translate from the Japanese. This can also affect the English translation sometimes. For example, the latest super smash bros was effectively translated twice. The NOE English can be bland though.

 

[Doombacon]

I still can't process how we can live in a world where absurdly dialog heavy Compile Heart kusoge gets green lit for every region and platform available at lightning speeds but simultaneously at Nintendo there are still projects considered "Too Japanese" to bother even considering.

 

[staticneuron]

I think the thrust of the counter-argument is: Tough shit, you're a platform holder.

Sony goes out of their way to ensure games with terrible ROI, like Tales of Hearts R and Yazkua 5, that aren't even published by them get localized in America.

When Nintendo was at the top of the industry, they had hands-down their worst publishing-to-localization record they have had in fifteen years. So it's not about profit, it's not about market position, it's about some people going "Nah, the people who do like this aren't people we want playing our system."

Which, man, that sounds like a really smart strategy until you need those people and they're not out buying your next system.

Very succinct point. I am sure this is behind alot of Sony's choices and also the new statements coming from MS side about diversity. Of course the other platform holders had more breathing room thanks to stronger third party support.

 

[Theanine3D]

I thought the point of Nintendo being a hardware company was that it enables them to take more risks with their library. "If Nintendo went 3rd party they would only ever release Mario and Zelda and nothing else." That's the #1 argument I see from people that insist Nintendo should never go 3rd party.

If they're not going to take risks like Xenoblade more often, they're not really doing any favors for their image as a platform holder.

 

[Effect]

So... why localize the voices?

Seriously, is there some rule that states they HAVE to localize the voice acting? I'm not going to be pissed if I hear Japanese. Yes, some people will, and a tiny minority will rant and rave about how it's ruined for them and they won't buy it. But the vast majority will -- enough that really, in a niche project voice acting would be like the first thing I'd toss out.

It's not even true what he's saying though in regards to Xenoblade since he's using that as example if he's really just talking about the Wii version which I assume he is. Cut scenes and battle dialgoue are voiced in that game. The rest is text. It's a long game but it is in no way shape or form "hundreds of hours of voice". Nintendo as a company has never at all made a game like that. So he's either outright lying here to try and make a point which he should stop and I ask why!? Or he's hyperbole which is something he should also stop doing.

 

[olimpia84]

But Xenoblade did good in the West though?

 

[Semajer]

It's my opinion that, if you have a system, you need to take some losses here and there to attract people to that console. Picking and choosing does not work. You just piss people off that want to own your system. It's the cost of doing business. Even if you don't publish a title, you should be actively making sure someone does.

Though these are all symptoms of a bigger problem. If the company is willing to pay for a game to be made, they need to put room in the budget to make sure it comes out internationally. Fans shouldn't be left to wonder anymore. With Nintendo consoles, they have to wonder, and that's a bad situation.

This sums up my opinion pretty well. I also think that first parties should take some responsibility for encouraging the localisation and release of third party games on their system. Though it does get grating when Nintendo is first to be blamed whenever a Dragon Quest is passed over for localisation.

Ignoring the localisation of titles that may not turn a profit can be damaging as it sends me, the consumer, somewhere else for entertainment. What could have been; a software sale, time invested in that software, positive word of mouth, and the assumption of further localisation support, may eventually become; a PS3 sale, a PSTV sale, the purchase of several Tales of games instead of Nintendo software, several hundred hours playing on a competitors hardware, willingness to invest in future Playstation hardware/software, negative Nintendo word of mouth, and doubt about current and future investment in Nintendo.

I thought it was pretty funny when NoA first started treating their market poorly by not releasing already localised games. It seemed to me a way for the American market to experience how crummy life in England under NoE had been. It quickly stopped being funny and started being sad. NoA has earned their bad reputation through their willing incompetence and unwillingness to take even minor risks. So while it's nice that Nintendo employees are now able to speak more freely, and I am very interested in what they have to say, it's only addressing a minor problem.

I think Nintendo as a whole needs to start communicating with much greater transparency. To the hardcore if nobody else. I've stopped reading interviews with Reggie because he starts vomiting PR if asked a sufficiently difficult question. It's boring and frustrating. If we're given no information, we can only speculate, and sooner or later speculation gets taken as fact by some. It's both amazing and infuriating how many people still think that Nintendo owns Fatal Frame simply because of one misinformed article.

NoA completely failed to satisfy their hardcore customers during the success of the Wii and DS. They are still failing in places with; poor amiibo allocation, late or missing VC releases, limited editions either not existing or being unaccessible to 95% of the continent, and no New 3DS release. A tiny online-only New 3DS release would be appreciated, I'm sure. Even the localisation of niche titles (that would have been unthinkable only a few years ago) seems like an act of desperation rather than a genuine commitment to the hardcore. Comments like some of Pranger's don't inspire confidence in me that NoA will take the risks needed to keep the hardcore happy over safe short-term profits.

Returning to the thread for the first time since the first page with a question that's been bothering me:

If ocalization is so costly and expensive (which it is), why don't NoA and NoE ever work together to subsidize the expense of western translations?

Why split their resources to translate the same game, like Fire Emblem or Smash Bros, and end up with two English versions of the same game? Does that seem incredibly wasteful to anyone else?

I've wondered this as well. It just seems odd to me that they don't share jobs, or distribute them more efficiently. I think it's fair to say that Treehouse are better localisers than NoE.

Instead of ending up with two different English scripts for Advance Wars DS 2, why not give NoE smaller, less text intensive titles like Yoshi's Wooly World and Spirit Camera, so that Treehouse can focus on big, meaty Xenoblade Emblems? They can each do 90% of the localisation work mostly solo, ship off their work to their counterparts for feedback, changing American text/references to British text/references and vice versa, and the finalise the work for release.

I imagine I'm being ignorant of how complex the localisation process is, but it seems to me that a lot of the time Nintendo of Europe simply takes Treehouse's work and changes things for no good fucking reason. It's also never going to work 1:1, with NoE (traditionally) requiring FIGS for all releases, and NoA only needing English (with French on the box?).

 

[sturgboski]

I still can't process how we can live in a world where absurdly dialog heavy Compile Heart kusoge gets green lit for every region and platform available at lightning speeds but simultaneously at Nintendo there are still projects considered "Too Japanese" to bother even considering.

Looks like someone is drinking some haterade there. Could be that they sell well enough to recoup the costs and then some. Different company sizes and revenue targets. Strangely though you mention kusoge and yet Devils Third is coming out here. Or conversely Nintendo just doesn't care if there is an audience outside of Japan?

 

[sörine]

NOA paid for Disaster's full localization and then didn't release it. Same with Archaic Sealed Heat. I don't believe the cost of localization itself was really the issue in the Wii/DS days.