• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

NOA: steady flow of NES classic thru holidays and into next year

Trup1aya

Member
Disappointing news. I honestly thought they were done with this kind of marketing.



Interesting. Are you saying you don't believe companies can and do limit supply to create heightened demand?

Artificial shortages are useless (unless you actually are going to adjust the price to reflect supply/demand). You can't make money if you don't have the product on hand to sell. All that does is allow others to profit from your limited stock.

Any responsible business would strive to meet demand at all times, ESPECIALLY during the time of the year when people are willing to spend the most $.
 

RibMan

Member
Artificial shortages are useless (unless you actually are going to adjust the price to reflect supply/demand). You can't make money if you don't have the product on hand to sell. All that does is allow others to profit from your limited stock.

Any responsible business would strive to meet demand at all times, ESPECIALLY during the time of the year when people are willing to spend the most $.

No. They're only useless if the company fails to execute on the demand that is created by the shortage. A company with a history of trickle-down-product will never fail in this regard.

This should be obvious, but the money is made by the interest that is created through supplying an absurdly low amount of product to stores. More interest, more buyers, more money. Nintendo is not run by people who forego forecasting, demand planning, and inventory management. Nintendo is also not a business that operates with disregard for quarterly results, so rest assured they'll magically find a way to meet demand aka make as much money as possible on the NES Classic before the quarter is up.

Others can't profit from the shortage of the NES Classic because others -- Sony and Microsoft -- don't make a NES Classic. This isn't a $60 third-party game where one version of the game ran out and isn't available. Of course, some stores do stock those 100-in-1 unofficial consoles, but due to the legalities of the product, the stores will never have the consoles in mass market quantities. The NES Classic is a unique retro product, and shortages of the product give Nintendo a lot of legroom during negotiations of shipments, replenishing stock, retailer cut, and overall stock distribution.

If you care about learning more on artificial scarcity/the scarcity principle, here's a great article that talks about it: http://www.referralcandy.com/blog/hurry-stocks-last-13-examples-scarcity-principle-used-marketing/
 

Trup1aya

Member
No. They're only useless if the company fails to execute on the demand that is created by the shortage. A company with a history of trickle-down-product will never fail in this regard.

This should be obvious, but the money is made by the interest that is created through supplying an absurdly low amount of product to stores. More interest, more buyers, more money. Nintendo is not run by people who forego forecasting, demand planning, and inventory management. Nintendo is also not a business that operates with disregard for quarterly results, so rest assured they'll magically find a way to meet demand aka make as much money as possible on the NES Classic before the quarter is up.

Others can't profit from the shortage of the NES Classic because others -- Sony and Microsoft -- don't make a NES Classic. This isn't a $60 third-party game where one version of the game ran out and isn't available. Of course, some stores do stock those 100-in-1 unofficial consoles, but due to the legalities of the product, the stores will never have the consoles in mass market quantities. The NES Classic is a unique retro product, and shortages of the product give Nintendo a lot of legroom during negotiations of shipments, replenishing stock, retailer cut, and overall stock distribution.

If you care about learning more on artificial scarcity/the scarcity principle, here's a great article that talks about it: http://www.referralcandy.com/blog/hurry-stocks-last-13-examples-scarcity-principle-used-marketing/

Demand is best leveraged when the sellers have the product that people actually want.

and when you have a product that people naturally want (which Nintendo has here) then there is no need to artificially reduce stock to feign demand.

Unless Nintendo was going to capitalize on the lack of supply relative to demand by actually raising the price, then they arent actually capitalizing on said demand.

NONE of your examples actually talk about how scarcity increases demand (because it doesn't). At best Scarcity increases an items perceived value to interested buyers OR it increases the interested buyers urgency to make a purchase.

Nintendo isn't capitalizing on the increased value because they aren't adjusting the price. They also aren't capitalizing on the increased urgency because they aren't providing time tables for restocking or allowing preorders. Instead they are allowing the second hand market to capitalize on those principles. Who said anything about Sony or MS? Scalpers are currently making more money on this item than Nintendo is.
 

LordRaptor

Member
If you care about learning more on artificial scarcity/the scarcity principle, here's a great article that talks about it: http://www.referralcandy.com/blog/hurry-stocks-last-13-examples-scarcity-principle-used-marketing/

Literally none of those examples apply, did you even read what you posted?
There is zero benefit for Nintendo to not sell as much as they can to meet demand.
Zero.

If it wasn't Nintendo involved, would you still cling to this belief of "artificial scarcity" as opposed to the vastly more likely answer that it is a company selling a product thats demand exceeds supply?
I get the feeling no.
 

trixx

Member
Yeah there should be more but why are people in such a rush? It's a good Christmas gift I guess. Short wire is deal breaker
 
Others can't profit from the shortage of the NES Classic because others -- Sony and Microsoft -- don't make a NES Classic.

Tell that to the scalpers who've sold theirs for 4-5 times the MSRP. Such people must lick their chops whenever Nintendo announces a new product, doesnt do pre-orders or seemingly pay attention to forums and social media to gauge the obvious demand and buzz from 4 months ago.

There's no disincentive for resellers, without any real idea of how Nintendo will supply the market, people who cant simply pick one off the shelf for $60 will go to incredible lengths financially to secure one for christmas. Scalpers will cash in through the holidays, any unsold stock can be returned in the new year or even sold at cost or just below and undercut retailers, a luxury they'll have obtained by making money hand over fist between now and christmas.

Right now the narrative around the Mini is that they're in short supply and there's money to be made because of that. Anyone can go on ebay and see what they're going for in a 10 second search. Nintendo so far hasn't gained any kind of advantage through this process. And to be clear, contrary to common opinion at least on GAF, I don't believe this is some kind of contrieved artificial demand being created by Nintendo. I do believe its just another example of how they often operate in their own bubble much to the chagrin of loyal supporters.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Another thing that Nintendo will largely miss out is going to be BF and Christmas shopping. The scarcity is going to drive customers to buy other gifts (I will do same instead of buying 2-3 for presents).
 

Celine

Member
Others can't profit from the shortage of the NES Classic because others -- Sony and Microsoft -- don't make a NES Classic.
I'm not sure Sony and Microsoft can make retro plug & play devices.
These kind of products cater to 2D games mostly at the moment and Sony and Microsoft simply don't have the right software catalogue.
The competition of the NES Classic is in the form of the shoddy Atari 2600 and Mega Drive /Genesis plug & play devices sold by AtGames but again those don't come anywhere near the appeal of the NES Classic Mini.
 

olimpia84

Member
Everybody should calm down. In a few months you will be able to walk into a store and get one, just like with the amiibo fever. If you can't get one now just be patient.
 

Vidiot

Member
I'm actually surprised how in demand the thing is. I already have easy access to the NES games I'd want to play. What's the main draw to people here if you don't mind me asking?
 

Celine

Member
I'm actually surprised how in demand the thing is. I already have easy access to the NES games I'd want to play. What's the main draw to people here if you don't mind me asking?
It's a perfect gift at a reasonable price for those that can't be bother with emulators or other videogame consoles (Wii, WiiU, 3DS) but still feel nostalgia for "good ol' games".

Compared to other existing retro plug & play devices it is also far more enticing:
- It's an official product from the original manufacturer, not just a shoddy licensed product by a third-party.
- Overall good emulation and perfectly nail the form factor (shrunk down the original console while retaining the pad original size).
- Good software selection which, while missing some great games, cover well the must have for the system.
In fact almost half of NES Classic Mini's game selection is composed of third-party games which is an unique proposition among the other plug & play devices (because third-party license couldn't bother to buy license for third-party games).
- NES and Nintendo in general have a far stronger legacy than Atari or Sega therefore many more people are interested in the NES Classic Mini.

The main negative I can see is that the cables are very short.
 

fester

Banned
Demand is best leveraged when the sellers have the product that people actually want.

and when you have a product that people naturally want (which Nintendo has here) then there is no need to artificially reduce stock to feign demand.

Unless Nintendo was going to capitalize on the lack of supply relative to demand by actually raising the price, then they arent actually capitalizing on said demand.

NONE of your examples actually talk about how scarcity increases demand (because it doesn't). At best Scarcity increases an items perceived value to interested buyers OR it increases the interested buyers urgency to make a purchase.

Nintendo isn't capitalizing on the increased value because they aren't adjusting the price. They also aren't capitalizing on the increased urgency because they aren't providing time tables for restocking or allowing preorders. Instead they are allowing the second hand market to capitalize on those principles. Who said anything about Sony or MS? Scalpers are currently making more money on this item than Nintendo is.

Glad to see someone posting actual business principles here rather than just the usual reactionary nonsense.
 
Sounds about normal. Still not sure if I want one or not (prefer the updated releases/remakes of these games) but I'll probably buy one next year if it encourages them to do a SNES one, which I would want more. I'm in no rush to pay crazy prices anyway
 
I honestly don't get the high demand for a product that came out over 30 years ago.

Partially, it's nostalgia for what was the #1 toy for several years in the late '80s and early '90s, and partially it's just the desire to own a cute little package that contains some of the greatest games ever made that people still play today.
 
I'm actually surprised how in demand the thing is. I already have easy access to the NES games I'd want to play. What's the main draw to people here if you don't mind me asking?

it's a nostalgia fueled project, plain and simple. I just turned 39 3 weeks ago and I'm very much at the point now( not what I'd call mid-life crisis) where I'm feeling very nostalgic for things from my youth. The NES was a very big part of my childhood, countless hours spent with friends, friendships gained and lost, christmas presents, saving up my allowance just to afford that one game that would last me for a year till I bought/was gifted another. There's a lot of intangible factors as to why something like this would be appealing. It really has nothing to do the fact that the games are all easily available elsewhere.

I think this is a test run for SNES mini in a year. These are simple machines to create and shouldn't take more than a year between releases. So I would anticipate a SNES for holiday 2017. And while we're all theorizing as to how they've managed to muck-up supply for the NES mini, they have absolutely no excuse to not flood the market in the correct numbers next time around. They can't be that oblivious to not know how popular the SNES version would be.
 

Dishwalla

Banned
What? Those cartridges are cheap you know. Only rare games are expensive. They don't even need to be working copies. And it allows you to just buy the games you want.

Unless you were extremely lucky, just the four Mario games on cartridge would likely cost around the same amount as this machine does. NES games are anything but cheap.
 
They can't be that oblivious to not know how popular the SNES version would be.

They weren't oblivious with this one either... There is a reason they announced the system so many months before release... It was to gage interest and prepare production. It was clear at announcement that it was going to be huge.
 

tornjaw

Member
But buying the cartridges online and downloading the ROMs is 100% legitimate.

And yeah, I'm suggesting this to get an equivalent experience.

You even get online multiplayer with Retroarch.

Ok, I can see the value as a gift for a kid. I'd rather just set up a pi and gift that to him though, but it is a good looking package.

What? Those cartridges are cheap you know. Only rare games are expensive. They don't even need to be working copies. And it allows you to just buy the games you want.

I know its a bit more of a hassle, but it's still very easy, and offers so much more value. I mean, it's extracting a zip file to an SD card, then putting that SD card in the pi. That's it.

Anyway, I get the picture now. Thanks for responding.

From Nintendo's Legal Page:

Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game? said:
There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

Please stop spreading misinformation.
 
I got two and sold the other one to cover the price of both with a quick tidy profit.

But this was all on Friday.

I suspect that the restocks will cause the general market for this to waiver a bit.

You're going to see these dip a bit in valuation near the beginning of December and then rise a bit before Christmas.

They'll collapse in value in the middle of January because the Switch will have a Virtual Console service and they'll be common close to June/July.

Last real shipment of them will be in September of next year.

They'll go rare again and a boxed NES Classic will be worth at least $100 to $150 next Christmas with steady sales for about $200 until 2018.

By 2019, a used one will be worth upwards of $400.

But that's just my estimate.

I suggest buying one. They're pretty cool.
 
They weren't oblivious with this one either... There is a reason they announced the system so many months before release... It was to gage interest and prepare production. It was clear at announcement that it was going to be huge.

And yet they've still fudged up the first wave in terms of meeting demand they supposedly gauged in advance, and created a scalper's paradise until the next wave. Takes some skill to do that.
 

Calamari41

41 > 38
They're creating the scarcity narrative right now, and I'm sure they'll be shipping a lot for Black Friday so that everybody who sees one snaps it up instinctively.
 
They're creating the scarcity narrative right now, and I'm sure they'll be shipping a lot for Black Friday so that everybody who sees one snaps it up instinctively.

But again, why would they do this? There's clearly already a lot of natural demand for this item. What would be the point of driving such a narrative that ultimately benefits scalpers? It's not like this 'artificial demand' puts more money in their pockets: it was going to sell regardless especially at this time of year and pricing level. It's cheap enough to where you'll grab one and throw it on the pile without thinking much about it, even if its just as a novelty item. If anything, the time to ration out supply is in January, not now. Strike while the iron is hot, otherwise the scalpers will.
 

Trup1aya

Member
They're creating the scarcity narrative right now, and I'm sure they'll be shipping a lot for Black Friday so that everybody who sees one snaps it up instinctively.

Scarcity narrative doesn't benefit them. It benefits the scalpers who are are capitalizing on the increases perceived value.

People would have been snapping them up instinctivelty already... if there was something to snap up.
 
And yet they've still fudged up the first wave in terms of meeting demand they supposedly gauged in advance, and created a scalper's paradise until the next wave. Takes some skill to do that.

Again, it's intentional. Do you think the NES, mini would have gotten nearly as much media coverage if it was easy to find?

Consider this, they expect lots of fresh shipments in the coming weeks... How long do you think it takes to do a factory run from scratch? If Nintendo truly believed it wouldn't sell well, they'd likely have to license a factory to begin production again from scratch, it would take a month or more for them to go from production to shelf.

Nintendo is sitting on these in a warehouse, and has had the factory in China on standby to make more, guaranteed.
 
Again, it's intentional. Do you think the NES, mini would have gotten nearly as much media coverage if it was easy to find?

Consider this, they expect lots of fresh shipments in the coming weeks... How long do you think it takes to do a factory run from scratch? If Nintendo truly believed it wouldn't sell well, they'd likely have to license a factory to begin production again from scratch, it would take a month or more for them to go from production to shelf.

Nintendo is sitting on these in a warehouse, and has had the factory in China on standby to make more, guaranteed.

They got plenty of media coverage when they announced it. I can get behind this deliberate narrative if the Mini didn't have obvious demand already. So who is this intentional rationing out of already in-demand items helping, besides scalpers? And given how protective Nintendo is of their IPs and products, do you think their goal is to create situations on purpose that leads to others financially capitalizing on their products? If Nintendo wanted to actually capitalize on demand, subsequent waves would be going out for MSRP $90 or something like that, increasing the price to take advantage of increased demand and buzz. But since they obviously aren't doing that, the only thing 'intentionally' withholding stock is doing is breeding a healthy scalper's market.
 
Anyone who believes this shortage is honestly because Nintendo was unable to manufacture more units than were available is either lying to try to defend the company or just plain wrong.

Scarcity creates demand and urgency to buy. Products that are widely available have no urgency to purchase. The narrative that you can't get this item easily so you better buy it when you get the chance is a powerful marketing tool. Especially under a time limitation before christmas to give it as a gift.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Scarcity creates demand and urgency to buy. Products that are widely available have no urgency to purchase.

Oh, a gift that is self-evidently created as a christmas present has no urgency to purchase?
How does that "artificial scarcity" work while actively stating more supplies are coming?
 
Anyone who believes this shortage is honestly because Nintendo was unable to manufacture more units than were available is either lying to try to defend the company or just plain wrong.

Scarcity creates demand and urgency to buy. Products that are widely available have no urgency to purchase. The narrative that you can't get this item easily so you better buy it when you get the chance is a powerful marketing tool. Especially under a time limitation before christmas to give it as a gift.

Who said it's a question of 'unable' to? Who's to say they were just conservative with their productions because they don't want a situation where they wind up miscalculating and end up sitting on a ton of inventory? This is the holiday season; People throw financial sense out the window this time of year, so Nintendo had a product that was going to sell without any deliberate shenanigans. We're talking a emulation box playing 30 year old games that can be downloaded to their phone, computers, tablets, or if you want to go the Nintendo route through the VC. They aren't providing something that isn't already available free for those who go that route. Guess what, when the inevitable SNES version comes out, I'm in for it day one despite the fact that the original hardware and most of the games likely put on it are sitting in my drawer as we speak( and I've got a modded wii loaded up with this stuff). People aren't buying this because the end-experience can't be found elsewhere.

The Mini is in demand....clearly. How much demand outside the Christmas period? Remains to be seen, but since Nintendo didn't even bother with pre-orders I can only guess that they're going to create a number of units that they comfortably feel will sell, and then quickly produce more rapidly as need be. It's a simple machine to produce which gives them the luxury to play it conservative and re-act as the market dictates. The fact that this creates a 'buzz' around it as a GOTTA HAVE IT NOW item is a by-product of that, but I'm not convinced it's a deliberate choice to provide scalpers the means to capitalize. As is, Nintendo said more waves are coming, so basically right now it's a matter of a fool and his/her money are easily departed if anyone is paying multiples times the MSRP for this.
 

tornjaw

Member
A large company's legal webpage isn't the proper source for actual legal matters, especially in this case. You're just continuing the misinformation campaign.

Right. A large company, that happens to also have a large legal team, that deals directly with matters discussed. Surely they haven't the slightest idea of what they speak.
 

jmizzal

Member
Another thing that Nintendo will largely miss out is going to be BF and Christmas shopping. The scarcity is going to drive customers to buy other gifts (I will do same instead of buying 2-3 for presents).

They will have another stock for Black Friday
 

Trup1aya

Member
Anyone who believes this shortage is honestly because Nintendo was unable to manufacture more units than were available is either lying to try to defend the company or just plain wrong.

Scarcity creates demand and urgency to buy. Products that are widely available have no urgency to purchase. The narrative that you can't get this item easily so you better buy it when you get the chance is a powerful marketing tool. Especially under a time limitation before christmas to give it as a gift.

Scarcity doesn't increase demand. It does increase urgency. But urgency alone doesn't generate profit. Sales generate profit.

Increased urgency is, in fact, a product of the items demand + its scarcity. An item being unavailable doesn't suddenly make the item desirable.

Trading immediate profit for temporary urgency is plain stupid when you have a product that is in high demand and you have no intentions of manipulating the price.

If the item was on the shelf, people would be snapping them up left and right as we speak. There is no need to horde them to create this phenomenon. The massive sales totals would have been just as intriguing a marketing tool as the shortages... the massive sales totals also would have been a better renvenue tool.
 
Right. A large company, that happens to also have a large legal team, that deals directly with matters discussed. Surely they haven't the slightest idea of what they speak.

Lol what?

I'm not a lawyer, but common sense would say that legal precedent needs to be established in order to make something illegal. Quoting a webpage from a company that has an obvious interest in one side of the matter is not a proper source.

If there is some sort of previous judgement, then that's what people should be referenced to.

I'm not sure what the question here is. Do you guys actually go to other companies' legal pages, such as maybe BP's or JP Morgan's ,to get the law of the land?

Edit: I'm guessing you guys are thinking I'm saying downloading roms is thoroughly legal.... I'm not.
 
Right now the narrative around the Mini is that they're in short supply and there's money to be made because of that. Anyone can go on ebay and see what they're going for in a 10 second search. Nintendo so far hasn't gained any kind of advantage through this process. And to be clear, contrary to common opinion at least on GAF, I don't believe this is some kind of contrieved artificial demand being created by Nintendo. I do believe its just another example of how they often operate in their own bubble much to the chagrin of loyal supporters.

When retailers are getting anywhere from 0-20% of the quantity they ordered back when it was announced, as confirmed by people on this very forum who do this for a living (including myself), then yes it's not just some "operating in a bubble" matter. They KNEW retailers wanted more stock and they refused to provide.

I would be willing to consider some manufacturing issue as a possibility, but there is literally NO WAY that they were clueless about retailer demand, at the very least.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Then they have to be the worst forecasting company in history cause this consistently happens with their products

They ARE terrible a forecasting demand for their products.

They undershipped the Wii initially, and massively overshipped the Wii U, for example.

This whole artificial scarcity idea makes no sense. If they were going to sit on stock, they could just sell this thing at $250 MSRP themselves. Why create "false urgency" around a $60 product, when the scarcity has seen consumers value the item at 5X that? They'd be better of price gouging, then lowering the cost as demand dropped... This how market manipulation would ACTUALLY work... if this hording what was really occurring... What good is artificial scarcity if you are letting scalpers enjoy the spoils?
 

13ruce

Banned
Meh Nintendo never learns, might have to pre order the Switch then don't want to wait months to play Zelda.

Hopefully after 12 January pre orders open up.

On topic tho:
Gonna get a Nes Mini when they are back in stock in a few months, doubt they are in stock during the holiday season.
 
When retailers are getting anywhere from 0-20% of the quantity they ordered back when it was announced, as confirmed by people on this very forum who do this for a living (including myself), then yes it's not just some "operating in a bubble" matter. They KNEW retailers wanted more stock and they refused to provide.

I would be willing to consider some manufacturing issue as a possibility, but there is literally NO WAY that they were clueless about retailer demand, at the very least.

I don't recall saying they were clueless about retailer demand, in fact many of my posts above I've stated just the opposite. I'm also considering that while they are producing the Mini, they're also in the manufacturing process for the switch, and still producing 3ds units including the new $99 ones. Both Switch and 3ds manufacturing, I think you'll agree, are higher up the priority list. I work in the procurement field, and I've had plenty of occasions where an order wasn't fulfilled completely from one supplier or another. And that was for existing goods already being produced, not a new one like this that I don't expect to be produced indefinitely anyways. At no point do I expect this item to be as commonly available as a current playstation or xbox console. So yeah, I would veer on the side that they were conservative with their manufacturing for reasons none of us on the outside are privy to. I don't think they looked at your business ( wherever you work) and formulated some diabolical scheme to short change you either to create artificial demand or simple shits and giggles.
 

MacTag

Banned
I'm not sure Sony and Microsoft can make retro plug & play devices.
These kind of products cater to 2D games mostly at the moment and Sony and Microsoft simply don't have the right software catalogue.
The competition of the NES Classic is in the form of the shoddy Atari 2600 and Mega Drive /Genesis plug & play devices sold by AtGames but again those don't come anywhere near the appeal of the NES Classic Mini.
MSX Classic Mini*



*exclusive to Japan, Brazil and Netherlands.
 
Top Bottom