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North Carolina GOP Goes Back on Promise to Fully Repeal ‘Bathroom Law’ HB2

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O

Opto

Banned
Hopefully now northern liberals who donated to the firebombed GOP office will know it's better to just let it burn
 
O

Ozigizo

Member
It's always baffled me how the Republicans can be so pro-constitution, yet they can't ever seem to separate church from state.
 
L

Lord Frieza

Member
Torokil said:
North Carolina is just a preview of the USA in 2020 or 2024. Republicans, and definitely the R POTUS, will wield every ounce of executive and legislative power to effectuate their agendas (the fact that they spent 6 years whining about Obama governing by Presidential EO aside) and then, the moment that they are in danger of losing that power, they will dump all of it with legislative changes in the lame duck to make the incoming D POTUS as impotent as possible. Bing bang boom, the R legislature(s) go back to being super obstructionist (proof of concept was 2010-2016) and blame government ineffectiveness on the D POTUS, ensuring at the very least an R wave election in the legislature and likely an R POTUS after a D term.

Meanwhile, they get to make hay with their agenda (without obstinate obstructionism from D legislators who will want to try to make government work) including hundreds of lifetime federal judge appointments (coming 2017 despite 6 years without confirming the D POTUS selections in the name of "judicial efficiency and judicial waste") and (probably) numerous SCOTUS appointments, all of which will solidify the R legislative and executive actions into the law of the land, including roll back of civil rights, voting rights and reproductive freedom. Even better, on the off chance D legislators ever get a majority and try to take progressive steps forward, the hundreds of lifetime appointments and conservative control of SCOTUS will ensure they fail while the R train rolls on.

Rinse and repeat.

Just fucking LOL at the Dems or anyone thinking there's ever a realistic chance of recovery for progressive politics.
Click to expand...

Yeah, America is pretty much doomed to either a repressive conservatism or middling progessivism that will be swiftly undid in the next wave. There's no hope left at this point, at least none that I see. The Dems are going to have the odds so stacked against them that they'll never have a true and solid majority again. It's over. Our votes are no longer going to matter, and the money we donate is not going to matter in the end, and that's all we can do. We lost, and they won.
 
L

LudicrousSpeed

Member
Blader said:
I still don't understand why the city council repealed the ordinance at all. NC GOP had been saying the whole time that if they repealed the ordinance, the state legislature would repeal HB2, and Charlotte refused to play ball. What the hell changed?
Click to expand...

Roy Cooper intervened and talked them into playing ball.

The worst part of this is that they really weren't gaining a ton by getting HB2 repealed. OK, so now localities around the state can actually pass LGBT non-discrimination statutes. Except, of course, for the entire idea of this arrangement is that no, they can't, because when they do another HB2 will be passed. Roy Cooper would be in a position to veto that bill, but the NC GOP has veto-proof majorities so he's not needed. You've won nothing on that front.

The bathroom restrictions in government buildings goes away. That's good. That said, it's not like undoing that means that trans people are going to necessarily be treated with any respect in a government office, it's just no longer mandated that they have to be total shits. Plus the lack of non-discrimination laws means that private establishments are free to similarly be total shits about bathrooms as well. You get a little win there, but it's not that huge

Roughly what they did was trade a statutory ban for a de facto ban. But the bigger effect would be that they could trumpet that HB2 is dead and those companies who had been boycotting might be persuaded to return despite the fact that shit's basically still as bad as it was before.

That's what Roy Cooper wanted. He had a vision where the state could stop being battered with HB2 and the only thing they'd have to do is sell out the people they had been trying to protect. And after he made it clear that he was willing to do that, the Republicans altered the deal and left him with nothing.
 
V

Vena

Member
Lord Frieza said:
Yeah, America is pretty much doomed to either a repressive conservatism or middling progessivism that will be swiftly undid in the next wave. There's no hope left at this point, at least none that I see. The Dems are going to have the odds so stacked against them that they'll never have a true and solid majority again. It's over. Our votes are no longer going to matter, and the money we donate is not going to matter in the end, and that's all we can do. We lost, and they won.
Click to expand...

Defeatism is just throwing yourself into a Catch 22. It also does no good for the people around you who have no interest in laying on their backs and giving up.
 
L

Lord Frieza

Member
Vena said:
Defeatism is just throwing yourself into a Catch 22. It also does no good for the people around you who have no interest in laying on their backs and giving up.
Click to expand...

I don't know, sorry I guess. I don't want to be defeatist, but ultimately, I don't really see any hope in it. It's really only a matter of time before we start seeing this on a national level once the GOP takes all of congress. The law will, most likely, be on their side with any type of voter suppression, gerrymandering, or governing law changes to branches for their own purposes. The only way I see it happening is if there's a massive awakening in the next few years and we see rushes to the polls like we've never seen in our history to vote Democrat and push the GOP out in every branch. I'd love, I mean...I dream of such a thing, but I can't say I believe it.
 
K

Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
LudicrousSpeed said:
Roy Cooper intervened and talked them into playing ball.

The worst part of this is that they really weren't gaining a ton by getting HB2 repealed. OK, so now localities around the state can actually pass LGBT non-discrimination statutes. Except, of course, for the entire idea of this arrangement is that no, they can't, because when they do another HB2 will be passed. Roy Cooper would be in a position to veto that bill, but the NC GOP has veto-proof majorities so he's not needed. You've won nothing on that front.

The bathroom restrictions in government buildings goes away. That's good. That said, it's not like undoing that means that trans people are going to necessarily be treated with any respect in a government office, it's just no longer mandated that they have to be total shits. Plus the lack of non-discrimination laws means that private establishments are free to similarly be total shits about bathrooms as well. You get a little win there, but it's not that huge

Roughly what they did was trade a statutory ban for a de facto ban. But the bigger effect would be that they could trumpet that HB2 is dead and those companies who had been boycotting might be persuaded to return despite the fact that shit's basically still as bad as it was before.

That's what Roy Cooper wanted. He had a vision where the state could stop being battered with HB2 and the only thing they'd have to do is sell out the people they had been trying to protect. And after he made it clear that he was willing to do that, the Republicans altered the deal and left him with nothing.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's exactly what happened. It's spelled out clearly in the statement the city made when repealing the ordinance.

The City of Charlotte continues its commitment to be a welcoming community that honors and respects all people.

The Charlotte City Council recognizes the ongoing negative economic impact resulting from the passage of the City’s Non-Discrimination Ordinance and the State’s House Bill 2. The Council acknowledges that North Carolina House Bill 2 “supersede(s) and preempt(s)” the City’s Ordinance. In order to continue thriving as an inclusive community and compete for high paying jobs and world-class events, the City and State must take action together to restore our collective reputation.

During this morning’s Legislative Briefing with the State Delegation representing Mecklenburg County, the Charlotte City Council voted to remove the Non-Discrimination Ordinance from the City Code. The City urges the State to follow immediately with a repeal of House Bill 2.

The City of Charlotte is deeply dedicated to protecting the rights of all people from discrimination and, with House Bill 2 repealed, will be able to pursue that priority for our community. There are many issues that require a positive and collaborative relationship between the City and State. The City pledges commitment to that partnership.

In addition to removal of the Non-Discrimination Ordinance, the City Council also removed from the City Code the Cable TV Ordinance (invalidated by the State in 2006) and the Business Privilege License Tax (invalidated by the State in 2014).
Click to expand...
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Killthee said:
Yup, that's exactly what happened. It's spelled out clearly in the statement the city made when repealing the ordinance.
Click to expand...

Y'all have this wrong. Cooper opposed the bait-and-switch repeal bill that included the "cooling off period." If he just wanted to relieve the economic pressure he'd have supported it so he could say he facilitated the repeal of HB2, but he did not do that. The blame for this lies solely with the GOP, same as it always has.
 
T

theguy

Member
Lord Frieza said:
I don't know, sorry I guess. I don't want to be defeatist, but ultimately, I don't really see any hope in it. It's really only a matter of time before we start seeing this on a national level once the GOP takes all of congress. The law will, most likely, be on their side with any type of voter suppression, gerrymandering, or governing law changes to branches for their own purposes. The only way I see it happening is if there's a massive awakening in the next few years and we see rushes to the polls like we've never seen in our history to vote Democrat and push the GOP out in every branch. I'd love, I mean...I dream of such a thing, but I can't say I believe it.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the same thing. Unfortunately, 50% of the voting-capable public care more about posting on Facebook and reading top 10 lists on Buzzfeed than they do about getting off their lazy asses to vote.

There has to be a way to change this mindset.
 
Fox Mulder

Fox Mulder

Member
The GOP are shitheads, no way.

Stop working with these fucking people, they don't play by the same rules and aren't doing anything in good faith.
 
M

Melkezadek

Member
Honestly at a loss on what we should be doing to combat this.

We keep being told that we have to work with these people and that the "fuck em" mentality is ultimately harmful and counterproductive , but then we see things like this.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
 
Phoenix RISING

Phoenix RISING

Banned
Lord Frieza said:
Yeah, America is pretty much doomed to either a repressive conservatism or middling progessivism that will be swiftly undid in the next wave. There's no hope left at this point, at least none that I see. The Dems are going to have the odds so stacked against them that they'll never have a true and solid majority again. It's over. Our votes are no longer going to matter, and the money we donate is not going to matter in the end, and that's all we can do. We lost, and they won.
Click to expand...

I think the Founding Fathers had a different attitude than this.
 
B

blackjaw

Member
It won't be repealed until a GOP member that looks like the opposite sex gets harassed or gets the shit kicked out of them for "using the wrong bathroom". Then it might make some headway.
 
R

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Melkezadek said:
Honestly at a loss on what we should be doing to combat this.

We keep being told that we have to work with these people and that the "fuck em" mentality is ultimately harmful and counterproductive , but then we see things like this.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
Click to expand...
Go with the fuck'em mentally.


A NC river republican state senator said they(dems) only wanted this at the expense of the state families, reputation, and economy.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
They are blaming Democrats for it not being repealed.

“They aren’t interested in moving past this issue or protecting the privacy and safety of North Carolina families,” he wrote. “They’re brass-knuckled politicians who want to wage a nasty culture war with divisive issues, so they can keep filling their campaign coffers with case from fringe liberal activists.”
“We long suspected they’re the worst kind of politicians. Today, they proved it.”
Click to expand...

Scum of the earth.
 
L

LudicrousSpeed

Member
rocketknight said:
Y'all have this wrong. Cooper opposed the bait-and-switch repeal bill that included the "cooling off period." If he just wanted to relieve the economic pressure he'd have supported it so he could say he facilitated the repeal of HB2, but he did not do that. The blame for this lies solely with the GOP, same as it always has.
Click to expand...

The bait-and-switch repeal bill happened after Cooper signaled that he gave less of a shit about protecting LGBT North Carolinians than he did about the economic damage that was being caused by boycotts that had focused on HB2. The GOP didn't keep up their end of the bargain, what a surprise. However, if they had moved a clean repeal, the entire deal was still "We don't have to have a law banning cities from having LGBT non-discrimination clauses if the only city with one gets rid of it and everyone understands that we'll put this back if anyone else tries to do that again."

There was never a scenario in this HB2 repeal situation that was going to be a positive outcome for the NC LGBT community. That's why Charlotte didn't take the deal months ago. The only thing on the table for anyone was the symbolic victory of "HB2 is dead", which Cooper hoped would increase economic activity as people and businesses end the boycotts, hopefully giving him a good start as incoming Governor despite having not fixed the actual problem one bit.
 
B

Barzul

Member
Cooper should never have tried to work with them. You don't want to be tied to any GOP shitshow, did none of these folks learn from the Obama first term and how bipartisanship is dead. Nah the people including the good ones need to suffer at the hands of these fools. Maybe then they will do something about it the next time they exercise their franchise. As of now the GOP keeps pulling this stuff with zero consequences.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
Lord Frieza said:
Yeah, America is pretty much doomed to either a repressive conservatism or middling progessivism that will be swiftly undid in the next wave. There's no hope left at this point, at least none that I see. The Dems are going to have the odds so stacked against them that they'll never have a true and solid majority again. It's over. Our votes are no longer going to matter, and the money we donate is not going to matter in the end, and that's all we can do. We lost, and they won.
Click to expand...

Lord Frieza said:
I don't know, sorry I guess. I don't want to be defeatist, but ultimately, I don't really see any hope in it. It's really only a matter of time before we start seeing this on a national level once the GOP takes all of congress. The law will, most likely, be on their side with any type of voter suppression, gerrymandering, or governing law changes to branches for their own purposes. The only way I see it happening is if there's a massive awakening in the next few years and we see rushes to the polls like we've never seen in our history to vote Democrat and push the GOP out in every branch. I'd love, I mean...I dream of such a thing, but I can't say I believe it.
Click to expand...
This is honestly how I feel at this point. I really think I'm through bothering with politics and even voting. It'm all just seems so... pointless.

Wilsongt said:
They are blaming Democrats for it not being repealed.

“They aren’t interested in moving past this issue or protecting the privacy and safety of North Carolina families,” he wrote. “They’re brass-knuckled politicians who want to wage a nasty culture war with divisive issues, so they can keep filling their campaign coffers with case from fringe liberal activists.”
“We long suspected they’re the worst kind of politicians. Today, they proved it.”
Click to expand...

Scum of the earth.
Click to expand...
Fuck these people. Seriously fuck them and anyone that voted for them. They're all disgusting.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Fuck the GOP. Do whatever you have to do to destroy them at every opportunity and at every level.
 
B

Blader

Member
Torokil said:
North Carolina is just a preview of the USA in 2020 or 2024. Republicans, and definitely the R POTUS, will wield every ounce of executive and legislative power to effectuate their agendas (the fact that they spent 6 years whining about Obama governing by Presidential EO aside) and then, the moment that they are in danger of losing that power, they will dump all of it with legislative changes in the lame duck to make the incoming D POTUS as impotent as possible. Bing bang boom, the R legislature(s) go back to being super obstructionist (proof of concept was 2010-2016) and blame government ineffectiveness on the D POTUS, ensuring at the very least an R wave election in the legislature and likely an R POTUS after a D term.

Meanwhile, they get to make hay with their agenda (without obstinate obstructionism from D legislators who will want to try to make government work) including hundreds of lifetime federal judge appointments (coming 2017 despite 6 years without confirming the D POTUS selections in the name of "judicial efficiency and judicial waste") and (probably) numerous SCOTUS appointments, all of which will solidify the R legislative and executive actions into the law of the land, including roll back of civil rights, voting rights and reproductive freedom. Even better, on the off chance D legislators ever get a majority and try to take progressive steps forward, the hundreds of lifetime appointments and conservative control of SCOTUS will ensure they fail while the R train rolls on.

Rinse and repeat.

Just fucking LOL at the Dems or anyone thinking there's ever a realistic chance of recovery for progressive politics.
Click to expand...

Lord Frieza said:
Yeah, America is pretty much doomed to either a repressive conservatism or middling progessivism that will be swiftly undid in the next wave. There's no hope left at this point, at least none that I see. The Dems are going to have the odds so stacked against them that they'll never have a true and solid majority again. It's over. Our votes are no longer going to matter, and the money we donate is not going to matter in the end, and that's all we can do. We lost, and they won.
Click to expand...

While there's plenty of reason to feel cynical and distressed, the idea that progress is forever doomed seems a bit overstated to me. We've had a conservative Supreme Court and 25 years worth of Republican presidencies for the last 45 years, and the country has made a ton of progress since then. Look at the LGBT community: 30 years ago, millions of gay Americans were dying en masse and the president didn't give a shit to even address it for years; now, same-sex marriage is the law of the land, and even the incoming GOP president doesn't have much issue with it.

Progress is slow, but it's real. And conservative majorities don't last forever, just as liberal majorities don't. 2004 was supposed to signal the beginning of the "permanent Republican majority" in Washington; two years later, Democrats took both chambers of Congress, and then two years after that, elected the first black president. The first potential woman president just won the popular vote by 2.8 million people, which is little comfort given she still lost, but that's progress. The GOP was supposed to be on its deathbed this year, and now suddenly they've taken control all of three branches of government and its the Democrats who are on their asses.

The point is, power shifts quickly in politics. Nothing is permanent. Progress can be disappointingly slow and hampered by compromise, but it continues to happen even in spite of decades of Republican governance and voter suppression.
 
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