Support NeoGAF

[The_Darkest_Red]

I wonder how long it will be before we see some Syndicate bomba deals? I'd love to pick the game up for $30 or so.

 

[Satchel]

Syndicate sales don't surprise me in the least.

I played that demo and yikes.

Also, why are the s3 hardware numbers gone in the op, and suddenly the 360 has only sold half of what it had?

 

[Averon]

I really don't think Square has it in them to make the overhauls needs to salvage the FF brand. Even with FXIII-2 in which they tried to address issues people had with FXIII, the fundamental issues were still there from what I could see (haven't played it yet). Ridiculous Jpop-y character designs, convoluted story (from what I've heard), and the same restrictive, directed narrative (I know they opened the game up some, but it doesn't sound like it was nearly enough). Square needs to get fresh blood in the company.

 

[KillerMan91]

Kind of ironic that the series that saved Square is now the one most likely to kill Square (and would most likely have done it had Square not acquired Eidos).

This gen has offered ridiculous amount of hyperbole. That I must admit. Not going to do CoD numbers = Not profitable. Yes sales of FF titles have declined but it still makes money and it's not going to sink anyone.

 

[matmanx1]

Decent numbers for KoA but I'm hoping there are many unacounted for Digital sales between Origin, Steam, Amazon etc. that don't show here. I know I bought through Steam and I'm betting a significant chunk of the PC crowd also went digital.

 

[gamergirly]

I said this a while ago, but given the sales of 3DS and the historic sales of Monster Hunter Portable, Dragon Quest 9, and each Pokemon release, don't be surprised if the next mainline Final Fantasy game is a) portable and b) based around local multiplayer.

Square's PSP output has been much more consistent than their HD work, and their programmers seem to be more comfortable outputting games in that range.

The current franchise path is a dead end. Final Fantasy XIII sold well off of hype, but failed at sustaining faith in the franchise. Final Fantasy XIV is dead. Final Fantasy vs. XIII has got to be infinitely more expensive than XIII-2, it's not even a mainline game, and it's probably never going to release on 360 or PC in the West. Every other game announced has the FF branding, rendering it utterly redundant. Madness.

Noooooooooooooooooo

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I have nothing really to add to this thread except for my view that Asuras wrath sold at least double what it deserved to.

Such a waste of a good budget , artistic direction and dev time.

 

[The Emperor]

This gen has offered ridiculous amount of hyperbole. That I must admit. Not going to to CoD numbers = Not profitable. Yes sales of FF titles have declined but it still makes money and it's not going to sink anyone.

Yeah not to mention XIII-2 DLC is selling well.

The game ought to make a bigger profit than XIII actually.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Syndicate is seemingly a bomba, yet it hasn't had a single sale anywhere.

Where are the $30-40 firesales?

 

[scitek]

Plus, the advent of cutscenes and storytelling in most non-RPGs has taken away a significant chunk of what made the genre so appealing in the PS1 era for some people.

Timing is, I think, the brunt of it. The series took off after 7 here in the States mainly because of its cutscenes. That shit was so far beyond what most people had seen up to that point from a storytelling perspective that it was like a novelty to have it and "play" it. X had a similar feel to it in that it was finally fully voice-acted, and really felt like a game that could never have been done on the PSX. By the time XIII hit, it didn't look really technically impressive compared to a lot of other games that had already been released.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Over 200k for Twisted Metal seems good to me. I thought this one would be 100k or under.

 

[Averon]

It also didn't help that games like Elder Scrolls and other WRPGs set the tone for what to expect from RPGs this generation. People liked it, and FFXIII ran so counter to that that people balked. The long development time for FFXIII really hurt it.

 

[LOCK]

Wow Syndicate did really terrible :/

Not sure if it was mentioned yet, but from Joystiq:

In its first week of sales during the last week of February, 36,000 copies of Asura's Wrath ended up in gamers hands, NPD tells Joystiq. Bizarrely, despite Syndicate's business savvy nature, EA's big reboot came up approximately 2,000 copies short of matching the Capcom god destroyer, with just 34,000 copies sold at retail in February.

These numbers should solve my hints so far. I knew the numbers would get talked about by somebody. They are just that horrible.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Grand Slam Tennis seems to have done absolutely pathetic worldwide.

 

[hatchx]

At the end of the day, February was just a flooded goddamn month.


How could all of these titles done well?

 

[Petrae]

Grand Slam Tennis seems to have done absolutely pathetic worldwide.

Can't say that it would be a surprise. Tennis market already has two established IPs which have a hard enough time selling (Virtua Tennis, Top Spin).

 

[Petrae]

At the end of the day, February was just a flooded goddamn month.


How could all of these titles done well?

The problem with your theory is that overall software sales were way down versus a year ago. Console software sales were down by over 3 million units versus the prior February. I could see more dilution in terms of titles not selling to expectation, but when the overall number is that far short... there's more to the picture.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Asura outselling Syndicate is mind-blowing.

 

[ShellyDeKiller]

@Sammy: But I'm asking again ( maybe Harker can answer me ): does the order in the elencation in the multiSKU charts represent the actual sales order between the single platforms SKUS?

I think it is, but since we don't have an official confirmation (we won't get it) we can't take it for granted.

 

[wcw]

Twisted Metal sold 221k in just 11 days of sales. Not bad, also its getting a Euro release this month. I have to think that in March it will break at least six figures again in America. I think by the end of the year we will likely see it ship a million units, and while it won't be a mega hit I think considering the small team that made it, the serious lack of advertising, and the fact that the franchise hasn't seen a release in 7 years and hasn't seen a release on a console in 11 puts its sales above Sony's expectations.

 

[Tookay]

Timing is, I think, the brunt of it. The series took off after 7 here in the States mainly because of its cutscenes. That shit was so far beyond what most people had seen up to that point from a storytelling perspective that it was like a novelty to have it and "play" it. X had a similar feel to it in that it was finally fully voice-acted, and really felt like a game that could never have been done on the PSX. By the time XIII hit, it didn't look really technically impressive compared to a lot of other games that had already been released.

Yep I know this is anecdotal and all, but I remember going over to a friend's house as a kid and having my mind blown by FFX's voiced cutscenes. And the FMV in VII was what everybody was talking about. While RPG fans love the mechanics of the games, a big focus of discussion was always on "the story." When other parts of the medium caught up, and when those RPG tropes lost their freshness (you're killing God again), I think JRPGs and FF as the vanguard lost one of their big selling points.

 

[wcw]

Yep I know this is anecdotal and all, but I remember going over to a friend's house as a kid and having my mind blown by FFX's voiced cutscenes. And the FMV in VII was what everybody was talking about. While RPG fans love the mechanics of the games, a big focus of discussion was always on "the story." When other parts of the medium caught up, and when those RPG tropes lost their freshness (you're killing God again), I think JRPGs and FF as the vanguard lost one of their big selling points.

What always separated RPG's from a lot of other games where the story telling. In the late 90's and early 00's a lot of people would always say FF 7,8,9,10 or other RPG was as good as any movie. What gave RPG's the head start when it came to story was that the gameplay was very start and stop so they could insert the cut-scenes without disrupting the flow.

But now all genres have caught up in terms of story telling and telling a story through gameplay. No one really says playing FF13 or any RPG was as good as any movie. Games like UnCharted have taken over that mantel.

FF hasn't been the leader in presentation for almost a decade and it hasn't been anything great in terms of gameplay either. Its a good RPG but the gimmick of excellent presentation and predominant gameplay for the genre is over. Other RPG's have better gameplay other genres have better presentation.

 

[kobashi100]

Grand Slam Tennis seems to have done absolutely pathetic worldwide.

Tennis games are dead!

 

[OldJadedGamer]

In hindsight, the FF multiplat megaton was a non-event. Who'd have guessed it?

Exclusive games get more attention regardless of the quality of the game.

To put this month's sales in perspective, Dante's Inferno sold 467.2K in its launch month, which was February 2010.

More perspective... Army of Two (the first one) on just the 360 sold 606k in it's first month in March 2008.

 

[JaxJag]

Exclusive games get more attention regardless of the quality of the game.

Yeah, like Mag, Ninety-Nine Nights, Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom, Shadowrun, Haze, White Knight Story, Project Sylpheed, and Infinite Undiscovery.

 

[Toth]

XIV's problem was that it was a XI reskin with less. According to your post they are just now trying to be XI without apologizing. 'Is a gaping hole' still an appropriate response, even to the not-so-well informed. Sorry mang.

I actively play 11 and 14 and the two are both VERY different beasts right now. For example, 11 is becoming more causal while 14's party play is being beefed up. The job system in 14 was added specifically for improving parties since you lose a lot of solo abilities when you switch over.

 

[SafeinSound]

Yeah, like Mag, Ninety-Nine Nights, Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom, Shadowrun, Haze, White Knight Story, Project Sylpheed, and Infinite Undiscovery.

Don't be fucking ridiculous.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I said this a while ago, but given the sales of 3DS and the historic sales of Monster Hunter Portable, Dragon Quest 9, and each Pokemon release, don't be surprised if the next mainline Final Fantasy game is a) portable and b) based around local multiplayer.

Square's PSP output has been much more consistent than their HD work, and their programmers seem to be more comfortable outputting games in that range.

The current franchise path is a dead end. Final Fantasy XIII sold well off of hype, but failed at sustaining faith in the franchise. Final Fantasy XIV is dead. Final Fantasy vs. XIII has got to be infinitely more expensive than XIII-2, it's not even a mainline game, and it's probably never going to release on 360 or PC in the West. Every other game announced has the FF branding, rendering it utterly redundant. Madness.

Honestly, looking at how beautiful the Vita screen is for quality 2D content, I'm amazed we haven't heard about more 2D games.

A new Castlevania or Final Fantasy in 2D with stunning artwork would look spectacular on the machine, and I'd enjoy that a lot more than in 3D and it'd take a lot less longer to make.

Studios need to embrace 2D far more.

 

[salpa]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore. Games like KOTOR, Mass Effect and TES have spoiled Western RPG gamers with open worlds, hordes of customization and limitless replayability.

JRPGs simply are not like that. I still love Final Fantasy. I cannot wait to grab XIII-2. The game is not a critical failure either. It is actually tracking not-that-far-behind X-2, which went on to only sell just a bit over 3 million lifetime. XIII-2 is already half there.

The battle system in XIII and XIII-2 is one of the best turn-based battle systems I have ever experienced.

 

[Green Mamba]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore.

Nope.

 

[SweetTeddie]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore. Games like KOTOR, Mass Effect and TES have spoiled Western RPG gamers with open worlds, hordes of customization and limitless replayability.

JRPGs simply are not like that. I still love Final Fantasy. I cannot wait to grab XIII-2. The game is not a critical failure either. It is actually tracking not-that-far-behind X-2, which went on to only sell just a bit over 3 million lifetime. XIII-2 is already half there.

The battle system in XIII and XIII-2 is one of the best turn-based battle systems I have ever experienced.

I think the problem starts with voice acting. Japanese story telling seems to be much more effective without it, otherwise it can be cringe-worthy. A large amount of people play Final Fantasy for the story, music and characters, and I think all of those (except maybe music) are quite lacking in Final Fantasy XIII and XIII-2. I really hope SE goes for a more hard fantasy vibe with FFXV, closer to FFIV and FFIX. Oh, and also hire writers who aren't terrible.

 

[Kagari]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore. Games like KOTOR, Mass Effect and TES have spoiled Western RPG gamers with open worlds, hordes of customization and limitless replayability.

JRPGs simply are not like that. I still love Final Fantasy. I cannot wait to grab XIII-2. The game is not a critical failure either. It is actually tracking not-that-far-behind X-2, which went on to only sell just a bit over 3 million lifetime. XIII-2 is already half there.

The battle system in XIII and XIII-2 is one of the best turn-based battle systems I have ever experienced.

Wrong.

Final Fantasy is my favorite series and JRPG my favorite genre, and I was disappointed in 13.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore. Games like KOTOR, Mass Effect and TES have spoiled Western RPG gamers with open worlds, hordes of customization and limitless replayability.

JRPGs simply are not like that. I still love Final Fantasy. I cannot wait to grab XIII-2. The game is not a critical failure either. It is actually tracking not-that-far-behind X-2, which went on to only sell just a bit over 3 million lifetime. XIII-2 is already half there.

The battle system in XIII and XIII-2 is one of the best turn-based battle systems I have ever experienced.

I love JRPGs, my favourite genre by far and I still enjoy them to this day, but the game was just flat out disappointing. The story sucked, the gameplay consisted of a battle system...and uhhh that's it. Some other questionable things not worth mentioning as well. People expect a lot more out of the series. Even previous games in the series that people spend a lot of time criticising had a lot more going for them.

They spent so much time, and effort, and money into something we we couldn't thoroughly enjoy because of how limiting the experience was. And the things they did put into the game, and made the large focus (like the story), well....it's terrible. And I don't mind me some cheesy jrpg melodrama, but this is on some next level shit of stupid.

The gall they had to continue it, lol. And don't even get me started on xiii-2. Too little too late.

 

[Wyndstryker]

IMO, Final Fantasy nowadays tries to do TOO MUCH. It tries too hard in the presentation and fails miserably. Tries too hard to impress in one area while it completely botches other important areas.

 

[timetokill]

I'd love to see them do a numbered FF on 3DS next. Actually focus on the gameplay and telling a good story, and less on graphics-whore and cinematics wankery.

 

[demosthenes]

IMO, Final Fantasy nowadays tries to do TOO MUCH. It tries too hard in the presentation and fails miserably. Tries too hard to impress in one area while it completely botches other important areas.

Wada is tempted by the CoD cash. He wants to sell his game to 14 million+. In doing so they're screwing themselves in the foot.

 

[tokkun]

I don't understand the critical attitude towards Final Fantasy.

I loved FF13. I think people who did not enjoy it, are people who simply do not enjoy the same JRPG experiences anymore.

Nah. I thought FFXIII was garbage but I loved Trails in the Sky which is a much more old-school JRPG. FFXIII is not "the same JRPG experience". Most of its criticism comes from the JRPG conventions it was lacking - towns, exploration, meaningful sidequests, etc. It was trying to move away from the traditional JRPG experience and did so unsuccessfully.

 

[Aselith]

Ouch, poor Syndicate! Everything I've heard about it is good so that really sucks. Hopefully, it'll limp its way into some semblance of profitability.

 

[Nirolak]

I'd love to see them do a numbered FF on 3DS next. Actually focus on the gameplay and telling a good story, and less on graphics-whore and cinematics wankery.

If you want a change in direction, you're going to need to change the people behind the series, or at least what they do.

One look at the 10 minute long Kingdom Hearts 3D trailer of nigh pure cinematics should be able to tell you that a giant "graphics-whore and cinematics wankery" game is perfectly possible on the system.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Fun with math: If the 360 SKU of Soul Calibur V wasn't in the top 10 does that imply that in total it sold <270K?

Given the PR and what's been posted in this thread - does that mean that the top 10 individual SKU looked something like:

01. Just Dance (Wii)
02. Twisted Metal - 221K
03. ???
04. ???
05. ???
06. ???
07. Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3) - ~215K
08. ???
09. ???
10. The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (360) - 135K

With four out of those six slots filled with:
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (360)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360)
UFC Undisputed (360)
NBA 2K12 (360)

 

[thcsquad]

I want a GAME to fail because it is the antithesis of quality in gaming today, and if something like that caught on, others might feel inclined to copy it. I'll give you an example. Heavy Rain recently did 'decently', and it already has some developers listing it as inspiration for one thing or another (impossible to say if Asura's Wrath was directly inspired by it, although it certainly has a similar disdain for gameplay). That latest, currently unreleased Rainbow Six game was said to have Heavy Rain inspired gameplay. And Heavy Rain only did -ok-. That's an example of a shitty game coming out, corrupting the industry and then infecting series I do enjoy.

These games do not exist in a vacuum, sadly. If they did, I'd never complain at all. I'd live in a perfect bubble and ignore all these crappy products. But they don't.

This passage reads like a jealous boyfriend blaming the dude who his girlfriend is cheating on him with for the fact that she's cheating on him. "If only that evil guy didn't corrupt my beautiful perfect girlfriend!". Just like that attitude belittles the girlfriend as some kind of pet waiting to be led to a new master, your attitude belittles game developers as weak-minded people that have to be protected from unsavory ideas.

If the Rainbow Six series takes a turn for the worse because the devs took inspiration from some game you don't like, it is the fault of nobody but the devs of Rainbow Six.

Nah. I thought FFXIII was garbage but I loved Trails in the Sky which is a much more old-school JRPG. FFXIII is not "the same JRPG experience". Most of its criticism comes from the JRPG conventions it was lacking - towns, exploration, meaningful sidequests, etc. It was trying to move away from the traditional JRPG experience and did so unsuccessfully.

I pretty much agree with you, but I'd put it this way: FFXIII was criticized because it focused on the wrong features in prior Final Fantasy games. Many parts of the game suffered due to the focus on graphics, FMVs, and production values in general. The only saving grace for me (and from what I've read, many people, at least on GAF) was the battle system.

 

[Petrae]

Fun with math: If the 360 SKU of Soul Calibur V wasn't in the top 10 does that imply that in total it sold <270K?

Given the PR and what's been posted in this thread - does that mean that the top 10 individual SKU looked something like:

01. Just Dance (Wii)
02. Twisted Metal - 221K
03. ???
04. ???
05. ???
06. ???
07. Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3) - ~210K
08. ???
09. ???
10. The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (360) - 135K

With four out of those six slots filled with:
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (360)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360)
UFC Undisputed (360)
NBA 2K12 (360)

Actually, those four releases fill all six slots. PS3 and X360 versions of MW3 and UFC each charted.

 

[timetokill]

If you want a change in direction, you're going to need to change the people behind the series, or at least what they do.

One look at the 10 minute long Kingdom Hearts 3D trailer of nigh pure cinematics should be able to tell you that a giant "graphics-whore and cinematics wankery" game is perfectly possible on the system.

I hadn't actually watched it (I'm not a KH fan) but yeah, good point. I would just hope that knowing that you're not going to have to spend so many resources making insane models would leave them to thinking about the parts of the game that matter (to me).

I'm not saying the graphics have to be terrible. I think Bravely Default looks fantastic, for example. But they didn't have to spend ages on getting those models to have their hair blow in the wind, you know?

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Wada is tempted by the CoD cash. He wants to sell his game to 14 million+. In doing so they're screwing themselves in the foot.

Impressive.

 

[Petrae]

Wada is tempted by the CoD cash. He wants to sell his game to 14 million+. In doing so they're screwing themselves in the foot.

Not to thread derail, but this sentence made me spit out my Pepsi after laughing.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Actually, those four releases fill all six slots. PS3 and X360 versions of MW3 and UFC each charted.

Oh cool. I was just going off MS PR, although I suspected as much.

Also guessing that MS PR lists the 5 360 SKU's that charted in order

So something like:

01. Just Dance (Wii)
02. Twisted Metal (PS3) - 221K
03. Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (360)
04. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360)
05. UFC Undisputed (360)
06. NBA 2K12 (360)
07. Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3) - ~210K
08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (PS3)
09. UFC Undisputed (PS3)
10. The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (360) - 135K

 

[pieatorium]

I hadn't actually watched it (I'm not a KH fan) but yeah, good point. I would just hope that knowing that you're not going to have to spend so many resources making insane models would leave them to thinking about the parts of the game that matter (to me).

I'm not saying the graphics have to be terrible. I think Bravely Default looks fantastic, for example. But they didn't have to spend ages on getting those models to have their hair blow in the wind, you know?

I woud assume that rather than giving them more time to focus on the things that matter they would most likely just release the game on shorter dev cycles. I don't think they tried to make a terrible story and it's not like the modelers are writing the thing anyway.

 

[Nirolak]

I hadn't actually watched it (I'm not a KH fan) but yeah, good point. I would just hope that knowing that you're not going to have to spend so many resources making insane models would leave them to thinking about the parts of the game that matter (to me).

I'm not saying the graphics have to be terrible. I think Bravely Default looks fantastic, for example. But they didn't have to spend ages on getting those models to have their hair blow in the wind, you know?

I don't think that really effects the gameplay development though.

I mean, the prequel to BD:FF had one of the most maligned combat systems I can think of in recent memory.

 

[Petrae]

Oh cool. I was just going off MS PR, although I suspected as much.

Also guessing that MS PR lists the 5 360 SKU's that charted in order

So something like:

01. Just Dance (Wii)
02. Twisted Metal (PS3) - 221K
03. Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (360)
04. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360)
05. UFC Undisputed (360)
06. NBA 2K12 (360)
07. Final Fantasy XIII-2 (PS3) - ~210K
08. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (PS3)
09. UFC Undisputed (PS3)
10. The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (360) - 135K

You nailed the first five correctly. Swap 6 with 8 and you're a winner. (Sadly, I have no prizes.)

 

[shinra-bansho]

You nailed the first five correctly. Swap 6 with 8 and you're a winner. (Sadly, I have no prizes.)

Yeah, when I thought about it again with MW3's number 1 placing it made more sense to have the PS3 SKU higher.

Aww, I wanted prizes.