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[Griss]

To people saying 'How can you criticise them, the games need to be there', well of course they do, but the criticism is that they should have been ready to go now. And it appears that they wanted to be. That's the criticism. (Now being E3 reveal -> Holiday launch)

The 'no leaks' thing certainly makes sense now, though.

 

[LegendofLex]

Looking at their first party output on 3ds and wiiu they had more than two years to prepare a decent enough lineup for an holiday release

Did they? Studios in bold were ones tied up with other internal development projects in the couple years around Wii U launch who didn't have a big Wii U game out at launch or before Q4 2013. Ones in italics were ones who had big Wii U games at launch or before Q4 2013.

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 1
Mario Kart 7 - released December 2011

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 2
Nintendo Land - released December 2012
WaraWara Plaza - released with Wii U OS, November 2012

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - released November 2011
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD - released October 2013
The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds - released November 2013

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 4
New Super Mario Bros. U - released November 2012
New Super Luigi U - released July 2013
Pikmin 3 - released August 2013

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 5
Steel Diver - released March 2011
Wii Fit U - released December 2013

EAD Tokyo Software Development Group No. 2
Super Mario 3D Land - released November 2011
Super Mario 3D World - released November 2013

Nintendo SPD Production Group 1
Rhythm Heaven Fever - released 2011
Tomodachi Life - released 2013
Game & Wario - released June 2013

That's it. Every other (non-subsidiary, non-second-party) studio is a codevelopment studio.

 

[themagicalkitsune]

Probably just Zelda.

Horii has also expressed interest for an NX version of Dragon Quest X and XI. Plus I'm sure others have also expressed interest but I can't recall them. There's definitely a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes atm

Fake edit: and DQ XI was last rumored to be releasing somewhere spring 2017, so...

 

[SunBroDave]

uh yea, kinda figured the games weren't ready when they said they wouldn't be showing dick at E3

 

[LordOcidax]

No, that's no worse.

So, you prefer to play a broken version of a game... weird. Is better that way, everybody is going to be nitpicking with the NX, from the OS to the controllers, the games, specs.. etc etc.. A broken game on a Nintendo new console, especially if is a Zelda game is not a good idea, also 3-4 Months is nothing.

 

[aBarreras]

To people saying 'How can you criticise them, the games need to be there', well of course they do, but the criticism is that they should have been ready to go now. And it appears that they wanted to be. That's the criticism.

The 'no leaks' thing certainly makes sense now, though.

with people being extremly sensitive to "barebones" launches, i think they decided to bulk up their games to avoid backslash at launch

 

[rokero]

the wait sucks but they made the right decision, there's no need to rush this , better they take their time and have a steady supply of games ready, no draughts since we don't know if third party's will show up, Nintendo are working at their own time looking for a ninche to themselves, PS4K or XOne2.0 are more threats to PS4, XOne than to NX imo

 

[Aostia]

And because the Wii was still selling ridiculously well through 2009, they weren't in any real rush to get more games out. Barring the NX being a similar sort of cultural phenomenon like the Wii, it's very important for them to get through that first year without any serious droughts this time.

But enough time and resources to prepare a steady, consistent lineup of games post-launch and through the rest of 2017? That's the bigger question. I'm sure they could have launched this November with Zelda and probably a few other games, but then would we be waiting until late spring/summer for the next big game(s) from them?

To me, and I'm sure it's the same way for them, the post-launch flow of software is a lot more important than what they have on launch day. Building momentum towards a Holiday 2017 is something they can do with a good March launch and a strong lineup through the remainder of the year. A Holiday 2016 launch followed by another drought is just another repeat of past mistakes.

Having a barren lineup at launch, Six months later or a year later doesnt change the issue for console owners. And with this move they clearly admitted having not solved the issue but just postponing it.
Having a strong first year lineup is pretty easy if in order to achieve this you cease internal developments for your two existing consoles for two years and a half

 

[Maxrunner]

Let's hope they upped the specs then.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I don't know why people think missing the holiday season for a hardware launch is such a bad thing. If the system is reasonably priced & has some decent launch titles, it'll sell out in March just on the strength of hardcore fans. Better to do that and have essentially a second launch at the end of the year than to try to release this year and have a rushed launch lineup and system shortages.

 

[Clov]

I'll agree to that, don't understand why they only want to focus only on Zelda for Wii U for one of the biggest gaming conventions of the year.

Perhaps Gamescom (doubtful) or TGS?

I'm guessing it will be revealed in a Nintendo Direct in the fall, either in September or October. Who knows what Nintendo's thinking now though.

 

[morikaze]

Probably wrong but I feel like the PS4K and Xbox One II have a lot to do with the NX launching in 2017.

 

[Bolivar687]

It's smart for Nintendo to move the NX out of the season where consumers spend the majority of their disposable income.

 

[Mengy]

Every generation, Satoru Iwata tells investors, gamers, and retailers that they will avoid major software droughts because these can kill a platform’s momentum after launch. Satoru Iwata never learns from anything. He always says he has learned from past mistakes, but his actions never show it. Instead, every single generation, all we get from him is a whole bunch of “Please understand” and “I apologize for the inconvenience”.

Here’s some examples.

Iwata says Wii will avoid major droughts that plagued GameCube. (March 2007)

“When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says, ”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum."

Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/libr...0607qa/02.html

Iwata promises that 3DS will avoid major droughts that plagued Wii and DS.

“It’s important that you be able to supply software with no pause,” said Iwata. “With the DS and Wii, following the titles that were released at launch, the momentum dropped when there was a gap in software releases. We’re making plans so that this type of thing won’t happen.”

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/10/iwat...ware-with-3ds/

Iwata promises that Wii U will avoid major droughts that plagued 3DS and Wii.

“As we learned a bitter lesson with the launch of the Nintendo 3DS, we are trying to take every possible measure so that the Wii U will have a successful launch.”
“The company was unable to launch much-anticipated first-party titles for the Wii nor for the Nintendo 3DS in a timely fashion in the first half of the term. In the game platform business, creating momentum is very important, but the momentum was once lost, and it has had a large negative effect on our sales and profits.”

Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com...on-iwata-vows/

Iwata apologizes for Wii U drought in January and February.

“I apologize to those supporting Wii U about the lack of titles in January and February.”

NX launching in March to make sure there are games to go along with it

When asked why Nintendo wasn’t launching the NX in time for this year’s big holiday season, Kimishima explained that Nintendo wanted to make sure there were games to go along with the NX.

Source: http://kotaku.com/nintendo-new-nx-console-will-be-out-march-2017-1773312629

Yep. These are the facts, Nintendo's history, and it does not instill confidence unfortunately.


Maybe this time will be different?


History predicts that it won't....

 

[Tathanen]

To people saying 'How can you criticise them, the games need to be there', well of course they do, but the criticism is that they should have been ready to go now. And it appears that they wanted to be. That's the criticism. (Now being E3 reveal -> Holiday launch)

The 'no leaks' thing certainly makes sense now, though.

Well yeah, this is a problem that goes way back. WAY back. Back to the Wii U being fundamentally flawed as a product that will sell to the market. They were caught in a position where they had not planned on releasing a successor this soon, but now they gotta, and they can't just make games appear as if from nowhere. On their original timeline I'm sure the NX wouldn't be out until 2018 or 2019, but the Wii U's catastrophic failure in the market is forcing everything to accelerate. And there's only so much you can do to accelerate the development of games that just are not ready to go.

 

[Barry Burton]

What in the F have they been working on for the past like 3 years?

You don't miss a major holiday season lightly.

Again, look at the context.

You don't miss a holiday season for your new hardware unless you're doing it to avert a disaster of a launch. Obviously their first choice would be a holiday release if everything was going fine, but it's not.

There's a bigger difference between November and March than just 4 months.

So... what were they doing the last 2 years ?

I still believe this has more to do with Nintendo not being ready for a full 2017 lineup of games. That they're waiting to launch once they feel confident about getting through a full year without any significant droughts.

You guys might end up being right, that they're struggling to get games ready for launch. That is a scary thought. But the problem has almost always been the post-launch and not the launch itself. I would lean more towards that being the reason that they aren't launching this holiday.

Having a barren lineup at launch, Six months later or a year later doesnt change the issue for console owners. And with this move they clearly admitted having not solved the issue but just postponing it.
Having a strong first year lineup is pretty easy if in order to achieve this you cease internal developments for your two existing consoles for two years and a half

I'm not willing to go that far just yet. To me, postponing the NX is potentially a sign that they are actually committed to solving the problem, and not launching before they're ready.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I don't buy it. The 2017 release broke just as I was heading out the door, so I've had all day at work mulling this over, and I just don't buy it.

Honestly, this just screams more empty promises and denied fuck ups.

 

[Mory Dunz]

But the problem is, if you're trying to get the CoD, Assassins, FFXV, etc of the world, you're going to be getting them too late (if at all), and 3rd party games would bomb, Again.

 

[ozfunghi]

*shakes head*

The correct answer would have been:

Spoiler

14nm polaris bitches!

 

[vinnygambini]

That was quite obvious from the getgo; miitomo was initially delayed, now nx is delayed, zelda is delayed, what happening boo?

 

[Vanillalite]

Did they? Studios in bold were ones tied up with other internal development projects in the couple years around Wii U launch who didn't have a big Wii U game out at launch or before Q4 2013. Ones in italics were ones who had big Wii U games at launch or before Q4 2013.

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 1
Mario Kart 7 - released December 2011

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 2
Nintendo Land - released December 2012
WaraWara Plaza - released with Wii U OS, November 2012

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 3
The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - released November 2011
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD - released October 2013
The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds - released November 2013

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 4
New Super Mario Bros. U - released November 2012
New Super Luigi U - released July 2013
Pikmin 3 - released August 2013

Nintendo EAD Software Development Group No. 5
Steel Diver - released March 2011
Wii Fit U - released December 2013

EAD Tokyo Software Development Group No. 1 (mostly an overseer studio)
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - released June 2011
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Anniversary Edition - released 2011

EAD Tokyo Software Development Group No. 2
Super Mario 3D Land - released November 2011
Super Mario 3D World - released November 2013

If they delay works out and we have a steady stream of software titles my fears will be smoothed over.

That being said as you posted EAD + Retro havent exactly been pushing games out as of late. So there is no excuse once the NX launches that these teams shouldn't be routinely hitting with games throughout 2017.

PS: Sony, MS, and Nintendo have all been shit at this as of late.

 

[dealer-]

It didn't help that Sony forgot they made that thing.

lol true enough

 

[LegendofLex]

That being said as you posted EAD + Retro havent exactly been pushing games out as of late. So there is no excuse once the NX launches that these teams shouldn't be routinely hitting with games throughout 2017.

Assuming none of these teams are working on 3DS or Wii U games apart from Zelda right now, there's no excuse why the quantity of releases shouldn't match their historical combined 3DS/Wii U output, except obviously since this is just one platform those releases shouldn't have to be as staggered.

If they're farming out Wii U ports to give us early Smash, Splatoon, Mario Maker, and maybe even Mario Kart, that means they can focus more on "universe" IP like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, and maybe even some new properties.

 

[KingBroly]

So...about that third party support?

Right?

;_;

Look, as long as Madden and FIFA aren't crap on NX, I'll buy them. And I've never even played a FIFA game before.

 

[Schnozberry]

Yep. These are the facts, Nintendo's history, and it does not instill confidence unfortunately.


Maybe this time will be different?


History predicts that it won't....

I'm hopeful the internal restructuring and shift towards unifying many of the internal teams and empowering younger employees leads to the right kinds of changes.

 

[MomoQca]

Soooo...

Basically, the NX's 1st party output should look like this...?

2017
Zelda
Smash NX
Super Mario Maker port
Splatoon port
Pikmin 4
3D Mario

2018
Animal Crossing
Mario Kart 9
Retro Studios
Splatoon 2

2019
Monolith Soft (Xenoblade 3, please)
Star Fox
Pokemon Gen 8
Fire Emblem
New IP

 

[Vital Tundra]

So Zelda, maybe some Wii U ports, and 2 or 3 new games? That's not bad, but hopefully they have a few 3rd party games as well that aren't months by the time they release it.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

THIS time it'll be different

THIS time there won't be droughts

seriously guys

you gotta believe me

It might not be, but there are differences this time. New president, a delay admitting games won't be ready for the holiday, a potential hybrid console that shares both console and handheld games.

The cycle could very well be broken. Or maybe it won't be.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I'm not entirely surprised that they probably delayed the console so they could have games ready for their launch. At long they are going to give teams more time to work on the games and make it much better then that's fine with me.

It's just 10-11 months away. It's not that bad compare to some games that got announced in E3 2015 and wouldn't be ready until 2017 and 2018.

 

[Stairouais]

Yeah, well, I don't believe him. If games are not ready for the end of this year, they won't be for March.

 

[Barry Burton]

But the problem is, if you're trying to get the CoD, Assassins, FFXV, etc of the world, you're going to be getting them too late (if at all), and 3rd party games would bomb, Again.

They're not. The audience for those games is elsewhere. Launching mid-stream against two other established consoles, Nintendo needs to differentiate itself as much as possible. If their goal is to get multi-platform ports, day-and-date or six months later, it doesn't really matter, things aren't going to go well for the NX.

 

[Saint Gregory]

So games that wouldn't have been ready for the holiday season will somehow be ready 3 months later for launch?

OK

 

[Aostia]

I still believe this has more to do with Nintendo not being ready for a full 2017 lineup of games. That they're waiting to launch once they feel confident about getting through a full year without any significant droughts.

You guys might end up being right, that they're struggling to get games ready for launch. That is a scary thought. But the problem has almost always been the post-launch and not the launch itself. I would lean more towards that being the reason that they aren't launching this holiday.

I'm not willing to go that far just yet. To me, postponing the NX is potentially a sign that they are actually committed to solving the problem, and not launching before they're ready.

Delaying the console is admitting that software output pace is as problematic as before.
Even more because they never did this before.
They are so inadequate in developing softwares to be forced to postpone the console, miss the holiday and having embarassing voids both at retailers and e3

 

[rardk64]

Soooo...

Basically, the NX's 1st party output should look like this...?

2017
Zelda
Smash NX
Super Mario Maker port
Splatoon port
Pikmin 4
3D Mario

2018
Animal Crossing
Mario Kart 9
Retro Studios
Splatoon 2

2019
Monolith Soft (Xenoblade 3, please)
Star Fox
Pokemon Gen 8
Fire Emblem
New IP

This would be solid - as long as they get proper third party support, then this could very easily be a success.

 

[deleted]

So, has Nintendo delayed Zelda for the NX, or pushed back the nx for Zelda? Which one is holding back the other?

 

[GhostTrick]

I don't know why people think missing the holiday season for a hardware launch is such a bad thing. If the system is reasonably priced & has some decent launch titles, it'll sell out in March just on the strength of hardcore fans. Better to do that and have essentially a second launch at the end of the year than to try to release this year and have a rushed launch lineup and system shortages.

The issue is after 2 pathetic years, they're not even ready to launch by the end of the year. Not even ready to show their console.
If it was any other company, the whole direction would be fired for such incompetence.

 

[MrSaturn99]

And it's not just about games being ready for launch. The problem for Nintendo for a long time has been post-launch and beyond.

They shouldn't launch NX until they are ready with a good launch lineup AND with the plan in place for a steady release of exclusive software through the rest of 2017.

If they weren't going to be at that stage by the end of 2016, then this was the right move, even if it means missing the holiday. It just means they'll need to build momentum for a holiday 2017 that will be critical for them.

Pretty much. If anything, I'm more disappointed with how they're handling E3.

We'll see if Kimishima's goal holds up, though.

 

[MacTag]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? you are saying "tis 3DS/Wii U all over again" and then saying that they should do exactly what they did with 3DS/Wii U,

delaying the NX launch is exactly the opposite to 3DS/Wii U Situation

3DS and Wii U were both hardware ready earlier, but delayed for software libraries to build up. NX is repeating the exact same cycle.

 

[diablos991]

Every generation, Satoru Iwata tells investors, gamers, and retailers that they will avoid major software droughts because these can kill a platform’s momentum after launch. Satoru Iwata never learns from anything. He always says he has learned from past mistakes, but his actions never show it. Instead, every single generation, all we get from him is a whole bunch of “Please understand” and “I apologize for the inconvenience”.

Here’s some examples.

Iwata says Wii will avoid major droughts that plagued GameCube. (March 2007)

“When we launched GameCube, the initial sales were good, and all the hardware we manufactured at that time were sold through. However, after this period, we could not provide the market with strong software titles in a timely fashion. As a result we could not leverage the initial launch time momentum, and sales of GameCube slowed down. To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch.” says Iwata. He then says, ”We believe it is important to provide the market with strong software without a long interval in order to keep the launch time momentum."

Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/libr...0607qa/02.html

Iwata promises that 3DS will avoid major droughts that plagued Wii and DS.

“It’s important that you be able to supply software with no pause,” said Iwata. “With the DS and Wii, following the titles that were released at launch, the momentum dropped when there was a gap in software releases. We’re making plans so that this type of thing won’t happen.”

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2011/01/10/iwat...ware-with-3ds/

Iwata promises that Wii U will avoid major droughts that plagued 3DS and Wii.

“As we learned a bitter lesson with the launch of the Nintendo 3DS, we are trying to take every possible measure so that the Wii U will have a successful launch.”
“The company was unable to launch much-anticipated first-party titles for the Wii nor for the Nintendo 3DS in a timely fashion in the first half of the term. In the game platform business, creating momentum is very important, but the momentum was once lost, and it has had a large negative effect on our sales and profits.”

Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.com...on-iwata-vows/

Iwata apologizes for Wii U drought in January and February.

“I apologize to those supporting Wii U about the lack of titles in January and February.”

NX launching in March to make sure there are games to go along with it

When asked why Nintendo wasn’t launching the NX in time for this year’s big holiday season, Kimishima explained that Nintendo wanted to make sure there were games to go along with the NX.

Source: http://kotaku.com/nintendo-new-nx-console-will-be-out-march-2017-1773312629

Is this what being in an abusive relationship is like?
I keep coming back to buy these systems and keep getting hurt.

 

[Bolivar687]

If it was any other company, the whole direction would be fired for such incompetence.

.

 

[Plinko]

Soooo...

Basically, the NX's 1st party output should look like this...?

2017
Zelda
Smash NX
Super Mario Maker port
Splatoon port
Pikmin 4
3D Mario

2018
Animal Crossing
Mario Kart 9
Retro Studios
Splatoon 2

2019
Monolith Soft (Xenoblade 3, please)
Star Fox
Pokemon Gen 8
Fire Emblem
New IP

No way Animal Crossing isn't a launch title, especially if it connects to the mobile game.

 

[falconxcrunner09]

Awesome. I'm in day one then. Zelda NX and Smash Bros will be enough for me.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

So...about that third party support?

I don't think there will be much - if any - third party support at launch. We're less than a year away from launch and, in spite of what various 'insiders' have said, I don't think dev kits have been made available outside of Nintendo's close circle of trusted partners, simply because no information has leaked from them.

 

[outunderthestars]

Is this what being in an abusive relationship is like?
I keep coming back to buy these systems and keep getting hurt.

Nintendo systems should always be considered a secondary system: Buy one for first party but have another system for your regular gaming.

 

[shingi70]

This makes sense, thought I'm still bummed about E3. That was a sure bet for getting info on what NX is, now we have to wait on the Nintendo cycle to grace us sometime j Septe, CXCmber.

 

[mrmickfran]

We could potentially have:

Zelda NX
EPD Tokyo game
Several EPD games
Retro Studios game
Wii U ports up the wazoo.

Monolith probably won't be ready for their game, neither would Intelligent Systems.

 

[metalslimer]

Probably another barren launch with minimal 3rd party support. The gimmick better be amazing if they don't want sub Wiiu sales

I would love to eat so much crow but nothing they have done had inspired confidence

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

I hope this isn't some PR talk though. It would make sense though and goes in line with what Emily Rogers said. Hopefully great first and third party titles. Cause if not..'..it's just Wii U over again.

 

[Ansatz]

Soooo...

Basically, the NX's 1st party output should look like this...?

Yeah, Mario Kart should be their 2018 big title but I think Retro's game is 2017.

Probably another barren launch with minimal 3rd party support. The gimmick better be amazing if they don't want sub Wiiu sales

I would love to eat so much crow but nothing they have done had inspired confidence

assuming there is a console, and that the console is more than just an option to play the the handheld games in higher resolution on your TV

 

[Vena]

3DS and Wii U were both hardware ready earlier, but delayed for software libraries to build up. NX is repeating the exact same cycle.

3DS had a bad pre-launch hardware fiasco due to the shortcoming of Tegra. I'd not consider that a good example.