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[jellies_two]

And by the way

the other reason he should resign is we have an AG who says he can't remember what he spoke about *when he met and spoke with the russian ambassador*.

Unfit for office.

 

[Byakuya769]

How did Sessions evade the question? He actually says "I did not have communications with the Russians".

https://twitter.com/CAPAction/status/837128474540322816

You're right. He's cooked.

I still think a direct question would have been much more impactful than the meandering question/statement Franken gave with no follow up.

Classic "sorry, ,but just to confirm.. so you did not have any communications with the Russians?" would go a long way.

 

[gravitybear]

I'm extremely cynical at this point. I dont think anything will get him impeached. Even if there was hard proof the Russians funded his campaign, I don't think he would be impeached. like the man said, he could shoot somebody on the street and his supporters wouldnt care. I think hes probably right.

 

[Byakuya769]

His written testimony is much more clear, and so was the written question.

https://twitter.com/RepKarenBass/status/837133480005931008

he is toast.

"About the 2016 election" is pretty important language there. Poor question.

 

[jellies_two]

"About the 2016 election" is pretty important language there. Poor question.

That's true.

However he says he doesn't remember what it was about. Which means it might have been about the 2016 election. We're expected to believe he knew a few weeks ago what it was about, and now he doesn't remember what it was about.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Not sure where else to post this, but I tried making a thread regarding this Maddow video going around twitter. It details Trump and Russia ties through his Sec. of Commerce pick, which seems to be the clearest tie I've seen thus far.

New News, New Thread for this too?

https://youtu.be/WX8dgbr5EI8

Adam Khan, David Frum, and others on Twitter are doing stuff like this too. Lots of raw connected dots and pointing out more and more smoke, but yah.

So yeah the Us will elect a black guy over Hilary Clinton
Hell pretty much kick ass, save the country from economic Armageddon
Then Hilary will lose the election despite decades worth of experience
The Internet will disseminate Fox News propaganda on steroids
That's just the tame parts

The shady dude from the apprentice will be elected president.
He'll be the biggest bullshit artist in modern politics
Will be accused of rape
Will have a wife that did porn
Be forced to settle for fraud and sued many times
Will be shown to go bankrupt many times
Won't release his tax returns
All evidence points to him being the manchurian candidate for Russia
Republicans will fall in line
All sorts of shady dealings will leak
He'll put neo nazis in the Whitehouse
There are rumours he's caught on tape saying racist shit whilst getting peed on
Rumours he's caught on tape raping children

45th president of the United States people!

South Park and John le Carre combined ain't got shit on the future

Me from the year 2005 will think I smoked crack.

Same here. World's gone wierd for alot of people in a lot of ways.

 

[jellies_two]

Leak on Sessions came from DOJ

someone leaked on their bosses boss. That's gotta burn.

 

[Byakuya769]

Session's said that he "didn't not have communications." LOL.

Seriously, listen to the Franken chat again. Stumbling over his words, lying.

 

[Daria]

what will come first: prosecution or resignation?

 

[Geist-]

Where there's smoke...

 

[Acorn]

what will come first: prosecution or resignation?

Trump? Neither. Sessions resignation

 

[Afrikan]

Session's said that he "didn't not have communications." LOL.

Seriously, listen to the Franken chat again. Stumbling over his words, lying.

didn't not?

Damn Genius.

 

[jellies_two]

"We never talked to Russia, but when we did it was so innocent we felt compelled to commit perjury before Congress not to bore you with it."

 

[ImpracticalPassword]

This is James Bond/Mission Impossible type stuff. Incredible. I wish I could work in the IC.

IC (as a collection of ~16 gov't agencies) hires a lot of people with a lot of different talents. Most of us probably wouldn't qualify for James Bond (and I sense that the grind of "interesting" intelligence work does actually suck more frequently than not) but here's a handy dandy career quiz for ya, just in case: https://www.intelligencecareers.gov/ic_jet2.html

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Good to know that Obama values the appearance of non-partisanship so much that he would prefer to preserve it over stopping and punishing actual treason. And all it cost was our national security and the stability of the free world. Small price to pay for Obama to secure his legacy of "neutrality".

 

[antonz]

Good to know that Obama values the appearance of non-partisanship so much that he would prefer to preserve it over stopping and punishing actual treason. And all it cost was our national security and the stability of the free world. Small price to pay for Obama to secure his legacy of "neutrality".

Obama was in a shitty situation. This country is a powder keg. If he had actually went after Trump and his people no matter how justified it would have led to open conflict. It is a dangerous gamble that everything would be worked out in time but the alternative was bloodshed

 

[KHarvey16]

Good to know that Obama values the appearance of non-partisanship so much that he would prefer to preserve it over stopping and punishing actual treason. And all it cost was our national security and the stability of the free world. Small price to pay for Obama to secure his legacy of "neutrality".

He wasn't simply preserving a legacy of nuetrality. There is almost no scenario in which a sitting democratic president going after the republican party's candidate ends well for democrats.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Obama was in a shitty situation. This country is a powder keg. If he had actually went after Trump and his people no matter how justified it would have led to open conflict. It is a dangerous gamble that everything would be worked out in time but the alternative was bloodshed

He wasn't simply preserving a legacy of nuetrality. There is almost no scenario in which a sitting democratic president going after the republican party's candidate ends well for democrats.

In the balancing of factors I'd like to think the stability and security of the rest of the entire world might make it into the analysis; this isn't solely a problem about the optics of US politics. If this whole situation doesn't qualify as justifiable grounds to intervene, then what in the hell would? I mean seriously, does Trump have to conspire to assassinate Hillary before Obama can take action about it?

 

[Scirrocco]

Good to know that Obama values the appearance of non-partisanship so much that he would prefer to preserve it over stopping and punishing actual treason. And all it cost was our national security and the stability of the free world. Small price to pay for Obama to secure his legacy of "neutrality".

Don't blame Obama for this. He did the right thing. I feel people underestimate just how much republicans hate him. If he'd gotten strongly involved, or even tried to stop the election or transition, it wouldn't matter what came to light , the GOP would double down just because it's him. The pee tape could come out, and have Putin there openly talking to trump about treason, and it would be completely ignored. They would rally around sessions, and even Flynn probably would not have stepped down.

Fuck, he's been on a desert island for a month, and the republicans are still trying to make him the big bad behind it all.

This needed to happen without him.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Don't blame Obama for this. He did the right thing. I feel people underestimate just how much republicans hate him. If he'd gotten strongly involved, or even tried to stop the election or transition, it wouldn't matter what came to light , the GOP would double down just because it's him. The pee tape could come out, and have Putin there openly talking to trump about treason, and it would be completely ignored. They would rally around sessions, and even Flynn probably would not have stepped down.

Fuck, he's been on a desert island for a month, and the republicans are still trying to make him the big bad behind it all.

This needed to happen without him.

Yup.

 

[NimbusD]

From the article, it sounds like he didn't fully understand the scope of what Russia was doing until it was too late.

He was too much an optimist, believing the American people couldn't stoop so low as to vote In Any numbers for trump. And who can blame him, I'm still reeling from the realization of the sheer stupidity of such a large portion of this country

 

[KHarvey16]

In the balancing of factors I'd like to think the stability and security of the rest of the entire world might factor into this analysis; this isn't solely a problem for US politics. If this whole situation doesn't qualify as justifiable grounds to intervene, what would? I mean seriously, does Trump have to shoot Hillary before Obama can take action about it?

What exactly do you think a president can do unilaterally here? And again, what do you think the reaction would be on the right? it would be seen as meddling. And if he survived it the topic would be pretty much dead.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

What exactly do you think a president can do unilaterally here? And again, what do you think the reaction would be on the right? it would be seen as meddling. And if he survived it the topic would be pretty much dead.

Don't blame Obama for this. He did the right thing. I feel people underestimate just how much republicans hate him. If he'd gotten strongly involved, or even tried to stop the election or transition, it wouldn't matter what came to light , the GOP would double down just because it's him. The pee tape could come out, and have Putin there openly talking to trump about treason, and it would be completely ignored. They would rally around sessions, and even Flynn probably would not have stepped down.

Fuck, he's been on a desert island for a month, and the republicans are still trying to make him the big bad behind it all.

This needed to happen without him.

I have zero doubt that history will judge Obama extremely harshly on this. That big NYT article on the DNC hacking had plenty of national security and intelligence officials lamenting that Obama acted far too timidly and passively on this whole thing and only took it seriously after it was too late. Remember, this didn't just happen at the very end of the campaign. Most of this was coming to light way back before summer even began.

And I am being serious when I ask what situation would actually merit a response in your opinion. Because it seems to me that if direct collaboration with a foreign power is off-limits, then you've normalized a completely absurd state of affairs. This is not just about the optics of US politics. The president of the US is for better and worse one of the major leaders and influences on the global order. To put all of the world at risk like this requires a serious counterweight and "it looks bad" isn't good enough.

 

[Calm waterfall]

I mean, with foreign intelligence jumping in on this, there comes a point where the GOP would consider it wise to take it seriously and not just continue to sweep it under the rug, right?

If anything the GOP will say that Europeans are trying to undermine Trump´s administration.

 

[KHarvey16]

I have zero doubt that history will judge Obama extremely harshly on this. That big NYT article on the DNC hacking had plenty of national security and intelligence officials lamenting that Obama acted far too timidly and passively on this whole thing and only took it seriously after it was too late. Remember, this didn't just happen at the very end of the campaign. Most of this was coming to light way back before summer even began.

And I am being serious when I ask what situation would actually merit a response in your opinion. Because it seems to me that if direct collaboration with a foreign power is off-limits, then you've completely normalized an absurd state of affairs. This is not just about the optics of US politics. The president of the US is for better and worse one of the major leaders and influences on the global order. To put all of the world at risk requires a serious counterweight.

Could you try and answer the questions I asked?

 

[silvon]

I have zero doubt that history will judge Obama extremely harshly on this. That big NYT article on the DNC hacking had plenty of national security and intelligence officials lamenting that Obama acted far too timidly and passively on this whole thing and only took it seriously after it was too late. Remember, this didn't just happen at the very end of the campaign. Most of this was coming to light way back before summer even began.

And I am being serious when I ask what situation would actually merit a response in your opinion. Because it seems to me that if direct collaboration with a foreign power is off-limits, then you've completely normalized an absurd state of affairs. This is not just about the optics of US politics. The president of the US is for better and worse one of the major leaders and influences on the global order. To put all of the world at risk requires a serious counterweight.

I don't think there's any conclusive evidence when Obama left office or even now - otherwise Trump would be in jail right now. There are lots of smoke but until there's a definitive proof, anything Obama said would just muddy the water even more and may be used by the Republicans to distract from the issue.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Could you try and answer the questions I asked?

For the record I asked questions first.

If this whole situation doesn't qualify as justifiable grounds to intervene, then what in the hell would? I mean seriously, does Trump have to conspire to assassinate Hillary before Obama can take action about it?

What exactly do you think a president can do unilaterally here? And again, what do you think the reaction would be on the right?

Obama should have been aggressively setting the narrative about this from the get-go back in late Spring. Asking what he should have done about it in late fall is completely missing the point. He held a big press conference about the North Korean hack of Sony to announce sanctions, a hack that didn't even target a US company.

For the Russians hacking the DNC, he delegates to have minor administration officials release timidly worded letters to the press. By the time he finally holds a press conference in the fall, he complains that the hacking "should not be a partisan issue". No shit Obama, the hacking became a partisan issue precisely because you refused to take a clear and aggressive public stand on it early on.

He let the narrative get shaped by Trump and Republicans and our shitty media, our country wasn't attacked, it was the corrupt DNC/Hillary campaign. Obama has the responsibility of shaping public discourse on national security matters and cyber-warfare, expecting the media to pull that water is crazy. If the public didn't adequately understand what was going on that's on the President.

 

[KHarvey16]

For the record I asked questions first.





Obama should have been aggressively setting the narrative about this from the get-go back in late Spring. Asking what he should have done about it in late fall is completely missing the point. He held a big press conference about the North Korean hack of Sony to announce sanctions, a hack that didn't even target a US company.

For the Russians hacking the DNC, he delegates to have minor administration officials release timidly worded letters to the press. By the time he finally holds a press conference himself, he complaints that the hacking "should not be a partisan issue". That's kind of the whole point though, the hacking became a partisan issue precisely because Obama refused to take a clear and aggressive public stand on it.

He let the narrative get shaped by Trump and Republicans and our shitty media. Obama shares the responsibility of shaping public discourse on national security matters and cyber-warfare, expecting the media to pull that water is crazy. If the public didn't adequately understand what was going on that's on the President.

It would have been framed as partisan and ignored.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

It would have been framed as partisan and ignored.

How instructive; the issue was already framed as partisan and ignored so I'm not sure how that's worse than what happened. The president's job is to overcome those challenges and sacrifice himself to protect the security of the free world, not to throw up his hands because "people won't believe me".

Can you answer my question now or is it a one-way street?

 

[HazySaiyan]

For fuck sake Republicans, what else is it going to take? Impeach this man!

 

[KHarvey16]

How instructive. Can you answer my question now or is it a one-way street?

Obama can't unilaterally act so the threshold question is irrelevant. It's a law enforcement matter. It would also be based on undeveloped or underdeveloped intelligence that the IC probably didn't (and probably still doesn't) want to compromise until they have all of it.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Not sure where else to post this, but I tried making a thread regarding this Maddow video going around twitter. It details Trump and Russia ties through his Sec. of Commerce pick, which seems to be the clearest tie I've seen thus far.

New News, New Thread for this too?

https://youtu.be/WX8dgbr5EI8

Jesus H Christ man

 

[ZOONAMI]

Bring these shitheads down

 

[Any Questions]

Watched this the other night. I mean what the fuck shit is so blatantly corrupt it's crazy

Fake fake fake. Nobody knows fake better then me. Believe me

 

[Brawndo Addict]

Obama can't unilaterally act so the threshold question is irrelevant. It's a law enforcement matter. It would also be based on undeveloped or underdeveloped intelligence that the IC probably didn't (and probably still doesn't) want to compromise until they have all of it.

Oh come on, are you seriously saying that there is no level of collusion with foreign powers that would merit action by the president? You're not even arguing the line wasn't crossed in this case, you're arguing there is no line to begin with. The Russians have played us like a fiddle through this whole thing and made us look like fools on the world stage. There is no outcome to any of this that does not result in serious damage to the world order.

Besides, Obama can act unilaterally, hence the Russian sanctions. The problem was that he decided to take action after it was far too late. The North Korea hack of a foreign company got more of an immediate and pronounced public response than the Russian attack on our democratic system of governance. It's called cyber-warfare for a reason, Obama should have responded as such.

 

[silvon]

Oh come on, are you seriously saying that there is no level of collusion with foreign powers that would merit action by the president? You're not even arguing the line wasn't crossed in this case, you're arguing there is no line to begin with. The Russians have played us like a fiddle through this whole thing and made us look like fools on the world stage. There is no outcome to any of this that does not result in serious damage to the world order.

Besides, Obama can act unilaterally, hence the Russian sanctions. The problem was that he decided to take action after it was far too late. The North Korea hack of a foreign company got more of a immediate and pronounced public response than the Russian hack.

What collusion are you refering to? That Trump colluded with Russians? There's still no proof for that (yet). That Russian attempted to influence the election? Nobody thought Trump would win, and Obama doing anything would be seen as him meddling with the election (and may even cause a backlash against Hillary). After Trump won, Obama sanctioned Russia, ejected Russian diplomats, and finalized rules that allow NSA information to be shared with other government agencies.

 

[Brandon F]

Not sure where else to post this, but I tried making a thread regarding this Maddow video going around twitter. It details Trump and Russia ties through his Sec. of Commerce pick, which seems to be the clearest tie I've seen thus far.

New News, New Thread for this too?

https://youtu.be/WX8dgbr5EI8

It's hard to be shocked by how scummy this entire administration is and has always been, but for fucks sake.

Obama was criticized for some of the most inane shit over the last decade(he's reading off a teleprompter too much! He said he quit smoking! Healthcare for everyone? That's socialism!)

Yet meanwhile this shit was going down from his most vocal opposition at the same time?

 

[mAcOdIn]

Seriously, I understand the sentiment here but having the sitting President openly attack the loyalty of the opposing party's candidate before an election would have set a terrible precedent and would have made terrible optics. None of his supporters would have bought it, a lot of the evidence was seemingly circumstantial so if they're wrong it'd be even worse, it would have gone over terribly. What needed to happen, what should have happened, if this is all true, is that the Republicans themselves should have taken him out, officially. Having the incumbent opposition party do it would have been disastrous. And even then the Republicans would catch flak from his supporters and likely lose the election. If they came out and told everyone exactly why they were dropping him from their ticket, while they may lose the election and lose his supporters I think they'd have the respect and gratitude of every other American that's not 100% a Trumpist.

But the safest bet was the one Obama made, assume he was going to lose and let your predecessor take over without it looking like sour grapes. Sadly, we know how that turned out.

Oh come on, are you seriously saying that there is no level of collusion with foreign powers that would merit action by the president? You're not even arguing the line wasn't crossed in this case, you're arguing there is no line to begin with. The Russians have played us like a fiddle through this whole thing and made us look like fools on the world stage. There is no outcome to any of this that does not result in serious damage to the world order.

Besides, Obama can act unilaterally, hence the Russian sanctions. The problem was that he decided to take action after it was far too late. The North Korea hack of a foreign company got more of an immediate and pronounced public response than the Russian attack on our democratic system of governance. It's called cyber-warfare for a reason, Obama should have responded as such.

The Russians didn't play us though, it's hard to even quantify if they're actions are what gave the win to Trump or not. If anyone played the American people it was ourselves. Hell, some people like Trump so much they don't care if Russia did help him, they're thankful! They'd buy Putin a beer! It was literally that important to many that Hillary not be President that they welcome Russian interference to help them secure a win. That's where we're at as a country right now.

 

[KHarvey16]

Oh come on, are you seriously saying that there is no level of collusion with foreign powers that would merit action by the president? You're not even arguing the line wasn't crossed in this case, you're arguing there is no line to begin with. The Russians have played us like a fiddle through this whole thing and made us look like fools on the world stage. There is no outcome to any of this that does not result in serious damage to the world order.

Besides, Obama can act unilaterally, hence the Russian sanctions. The problem was that he decided to take action after it was far too late. The North Korea hack of a foreign company got more of a immediate and pronounced public response than the Russian hack.

The evidence of that hack was clear. The situation was far simpler. Many words can be used to describe the various relationships Trump and his campaign members have with Russia, but simple is not one of them.

If Obama acted on what he had at the time it would have been dismissed as partisan and used against the democrats in the election. Nothing he started would have finished before the election or the inaguration and it wouldn't have helped them.

 

[CrispyBoar]

The problem is half the populace has now been convinced by the Trump Administration that these mainstream news sites are all just fake news now with a political bias.

You mean the idiotic supporters of Trump's. The rest of us (including the rest of the entire world) still have a brain.

 

[Brawndo Addict]

There was overwhelming evidence that the Russians attacked our democratic system and hacked the DNC long before October when Obama finally had "a public assertion of Russia’s role made in a written statement from the director of national intelligence and the secretary of homeland security." The way some people talk I get the sense that even that kind of tepid response so late in the game was too much.

If Obama making a public statement about direct Russian attacks on our democracy in early summer would be seen as too political then the Russians have already won and our political system is fucked. This was a cyber-military operation against the United States and we're sitting here arguing about political optics; the Russians didn't particularly care who won, they just wanted to destroy the legitimacy of our political system and the public's trust in it. Well, mission fucking accomplished. All we have done is further embolden our enemies to engage in more cyber-warfare against us.

 

[silvon]

If Obama making a public statement about direct Russian attacks on our democracy in early summer would be seen as too political then the Russians have already won and our political system is fucked. This was a cyber-military operation against the United States and we're sitting here arguing about political optics. All this has done is embolden our enemies to engage in more cyber-warfare against us.

Unfortunately that's the state of US politics. "Party over country" is strong and everybody is forced to play by that rule or get bit.

 

[HariKari]

If Obama making a public statement about direct Russian attacks on our democracy in early summer would be seen as too political then the Russians have already won and our political system is fucked.

The internet is bringing back tribalism something fierce. So yeah, we're skating on thin ice as a society.

 

[Scirrocco]

Oh come on, are you seriously saying that there is no level of collusion with foreign powers that would merit action by the president? You're not even arguing the line wasn't crossed in this case, you're arguing there is no line to begin with. The Russians have played us like a fiddle through this whole thing and made us look like fools on the world stage. There is no outcome to any of this that does not result in serious damage to the world order.

Besides, Obama can act unilaterally, hence the Russian sanctions. The problem was that he decided to take action after it was far too late. The North Korea hack of a foreign company got more of an immediate and pronounced public response than the Russian attack on our democratic system of governance. It's called cyber-warfare for a reason, Obama should have responded as such.

Any colllusion is too much, but good luck proving it. please remember there was no evidence then (and sadly now may never be), just a dossier. And the damage was mostly done by the time we knew for sure what was going on. It all,would have been seen as a partisan hit job, and one that was probably unnecessary since all the polls had him losing and the damage had mostly already been done. In hindsight, yes Obama should have done more because A. We know Trump wins despite all the polls predicting he loses, and B. By some super narrow margins that hitting him with treason might have been enough to tip the scale, or at least take time away from HER EMAILS!!!!! In the news.

But if you don't think he's going to win, it just galvanizes the right (slightly more) against Hillary, and creates a massive international crisis (because what they have done could be considered an act of wAr) that she has to deal with day 1, with an already hostile republican congress that now think Russia is their bff since Obama clearly hates them. Sadly she didn't win, but I don't blame Obama for doing it.

And after the election, well see my first post. Your right: there is no outcome that isn't shit. But Obama playing nice And then going into hiding after meant they could rally against him, and stretch out this fight far longer then it should have otherwise.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Not sure where else to post this, but I tried making a thread regarding this Maddow video going around twitter. It details Trump and Russia ties through his Sec. of Commerce pick, which seems to be the clearest tie I've seen thus far.

New News, New Thread for this too?

https://youtu.be/WX8dgbr5EI8

Is anybody else discussing this? Seems like a stick of dynamite to me, I really hope all of this is being investigated.

 

[Angelus Errare]

In the balancing of factors I'd like to think the stability and security of the rest of the entire world might make it into the analysis; this isn't solely a problem about the optics of US politics. If this whole situation doesn't qualify as justifiable grounds to intervene, then what in the hell would? I mean seriously, does Trump have to conspire to assassinate Hillary before Obama can take action about it?

I imagine from his perspective going after Trump while he (Barack) is sitting President during the campaign year would push people towards Trump because they would see him as being bullied and Obama was helping Hillary win (thus playing into the "corrupt politicians" narrative that Americans both liberal and conservative are fueled by).

To the average person it would easily look like democrats were rigging things. Hell I imagine the average "liberal" voter would see it that way as well.

 

[jellies_two]

Is anybody else discussing this? Seems like a stick of dynamite to me, I really hope all of this is being investigated.

This is just one aspect of a whole ball of corrupt wax there is literally a new dodgy connection to oligarch cash under every rock.
The problem is nothing can be proven without full financials and trump isn't releasing anything.

 

[Keasar]

 

[Sulik2]

As usual it seems like Obama screwed up by having faith congress or the intelligence would actually do its job with this evidence and not just bury it to ride Trump to power. He should have held a press conference and announced Trumps arrest before the inauguration if he wanted to stop this.

 

[BrassDragon]

I can't tell from the article but I hope this intelligence was collected at the request of the US IC rather than proactively given to them by the allies.

That would be a good way to harden the investigations against political meddling - by filing requests to allies through the proper channels, it alerts them to collect, share and archive these findings in a manner that's much harder to surpress for the US government even they if purge their internal security apparatus.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a flurry of these international requests right now before the political appointees bring the hammer down on the agencies that might implicate their boss.

If your leadership won't listen to your findings, the IC reaching out simultaneously to the press, elected representatives and international allies is a good strategy - if the intelligence is solid, it's going to stick no matter what.

Troubling from a democratic standpoint but if the corruption is at the very top and normal checks and balances fail, you run out of options fast.