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Official Feb. 12th Primary Thread (Obama/McCain Beltway SWEEP SWEEP)

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S

syllogism

Member
Meanwhile, Georgia Labor Commissioner Michael Thurmond told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Friday that news of Scott's switch and the confusion surrounding Lewis' position has not affected his own standing.
But, he said, his endorsement of Clinton does not necessarily mean he'll cast a superdelegate ballot for her in August.

"I endorsed her in the primary and I stand by that endorsement," Thurmond said.

But there are two issues at work, he said: endorsements and superdelegate ballots. They are not necessarily the same thing, he said.

Being a superdelegate, Thurmond said, "means you have to pick the candidate that will best represent the party in the general election, irrespective of who you may have endorsed or may have supported during the primary and caucus process."
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Heh
 
Z

ZeroTolerance

Junior Member
Both Clintons Attack Obama Again

Former President Clinton said Democratic voters who support Barack Obama over his wife are missing out on an opportunity to back a universal health care system for the nation.

"It would be truly tragic if the Democratic Party walked away from universal health care for the first time in 60 years when we finally got the business community and the medical community in line behind us," Clinton said Friday during a campaign swing through East Texas in advance of the state's March 4 primary.
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Today, Clinton’s campaign debuted ‘Deserves,’ a response to what it called “false attacks” in the Obama spot.

"Barack Obama still won't agree to debate in Wisconsin,” says the announcer in the 30-second ad, which will also air in Wisconsin. “And now he's hiding behind false attack ads.”

The ad criticized Obama’s stands on issues like health care and Social Security, and asked
“Why won’t Barack Obama debate these differences? Wisconsin deserves better.”

The state's voters head to the polls next Tuesday.
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Why does she do this ? I wish someone would tell her, she is driving a lot of people away to Obama's side by doing this....
 
S

sangreal

Member
ZeroTolerance said:
Both Clintons Attack Obama Again





Why does she do this ? I wish someone would tell her, she is driving a lot of people away to Obama's side by doing this....
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I'm not sure if thats true, but its certainly turning his supporters more and more away from her. There is no way I will vote for this woman in November, and I don't think I'm alone
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
typhonsentra said:
In that Hillary attack ad, why did she vote against the final version of HR 6? The month prior to the date given in the video it passed the preliminary vote with her support.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/senate/1/votes/158/

What changed?
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Probably changes during the conference committee, maybe originally in the House version. It's normal for a bill to change enough during that process that Congresspeople switch their votes.

And yes, that was a bad energy bill. Obama probably voted for it because of Illinois coal interests, though he's backed down since.

She's right on this one, folks.
 
B

belvedere

Junior Butler
ZeroTolerance said:
Both Clintons Attack Obama Again





Why does she do this ? I wish someone would tell her, she is driving a lot of people away to Obama's side by doing this....
Click to expand...


It's funny as hell. They're constantly attacking Obama and when Obama responds, they whine to the media that Obama is playing dirty.
 
Z

ZeroTolerance

Junior Member
****--

Share your storyAs you've probably heard, there could be a wildcard in the race for the Democratic nomination.

We firmly believe that the candidate who has won the most pledged delegates -- the result of having more voters in more places supporting your campaign -- will be the Democratic nominee.

But to be safe, we are working to attract the support of "superdelegates" -- party officials and Democratic officeholders from across the country -- who also have a vote at the Democratic National Convention.

You may already know some superdelegates -- they include senators, governors, and even former presidents and vice presidents. But many others are ordinary people who hold positions in the state and local party operations.

These nearly 800 superdelegates will vote alongside the more than 3,000 pledged delegates who are chosen in the various state primaries and caucuses. The candidate that gets a majority of all delegates (superdelegates and pledged delegates combined) will be the Democratic nominee for president.

Right now, Barack is ahead in the contest for pledged delegates. We've won 23 contests out of the 35 that have been held so far -- including the last 8 in a row. And with our decisive victories in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, DC on Tuesday, we now lead by more than 135 pledged delegates in the race for the Democratic nomination.

While we intend to continue winning states and expanding our lead among the pledged delegates, and believe that will likely ensure that Barack is the Democratic nominee, we're also doing the work of reaching out to superdelegates and making sure as many as possible support Barack Obama.

Here's where you can play a key role.

Our work so far has taught us one important lesson: that your personal story about why you support Barack Obama is often the most powerful persuasion tool for someone who's undecided. That's true whether that undecided voter is your neighbor or a superdelegate.

The story of where you're from, what brought you into the political process, the issues that matter to you, and why you became part of this movement has the potential to inspire someone who could cast a deciding vote in this contest.

Our staff will compile stories from supporters like you and make them a key part of the conversation with superdelegates as Barack asks for their support.

Share your story to help persuade superdelegates now:

http://my.barackobama.com/superdelegates

I've received a lot of email from folks asking how best to help with the superdelegate effort, and this is it.

Your note, combined with those of other Obama supporters, will tell the story of an extraordinary movement of ordinary people -- a story with a common thread of hope that becomes all the more powerful when it brings together the diverse backgrounds and experiences of our supporters.

Together we're building something historic, and your story can help make someone else a part of it.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you,

David

David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
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I just received this in my email, thought I share.
 
S

sangreal

Member
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/08/fact_check_obamas_strong_recor.php

Just FYI

Whether you agree with it or not, thats why Obama voted for the bill

I would like Hillary to explain her attack on Obama for his nuclear radiation leak bill. She makes the false claim that he watered it down under pressure from Exelon (it was actually watered down by the anti-environment republican committee chair). More importantly, she co-sponsored the bill after it was watered-down. Also, her chief strategist Mark Penn counts Exelon as a client
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
I respected Edwards because I thought he genuinely believed in his platform. If he endorses Hillary that notion will go right down the shitter, and I hope it ends his career - the unions aren't stupid.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
Justin Bailey said:
How the fuck is that in any way democratic? Gahhhhhh

*bangs head against brick wall*
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It's another reason why a two-party system is silly. When one or more of the parties picks the representative without the will of the people, suddenly just by taking choices away, they make the choices of the next president.
 
H

harSon

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Wisconsin can obviously go either way, but I'd imagine Obama has the edge. I don't think it'll be a blowout like Hawaii should be, for instance.

After that we move to Hillary's strongholds. I originally thought Obama could win Ohio, but it's looking bad right now; granted he hasn't campaigned there yet. And don't believe the hype: Texas is Hillary's
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I was starting to get worried but now that you've sided with Hillary once again I'm at ease :lol
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
There are stories that his wife wants him to endorse Obama, and I posted an article earlier where many of his money backers also are pushing for Obama. If Edwards goes for Hillary it'll be nothing more than him whoring for a job
 
T

typhonsentra

Banned
Zeed said:
I left him a message under Contact on http://www.johnedwards.com/

Like the link suggests, we should all do the same and let him know that endorsing Hillary would go foursquare against everything he once stood for. Will it make a difference? Possibly. At this point I'm willing to jump on the slightest chance of helping Obama.
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Yeah, I did the same thing you and her did already too. It's a good idea, and all we can do really.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Loudninja said:
New Texas poll:
49/41

WOW
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Who conducted this one?

typhonsentra said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYq90WLK8dE
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At first I thought that was a genuine Hillary support video.

PhoenixDark said:
There are stories that his wife wants him to endorse Obama, and I posted an article earlier where many of his money backers also are pushing for Obama. If Edwards goes for Hillary it'll be nothing more than him whoring for a job
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If he's jobwhoring, surely he can see who the frontrunner is going to be. I will continue to have faith in Edwards until the betrayal, if it comes.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Zeed said:
If he's jobwhoring, surely he can see who the frontrunner is going to be. I will continue to have faith in Edwards until the betrayal, if it comes.
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One of Edwards' aides said that Obama constantly gains and loses momentum, so deciding who is truly ahead is tricky. If Obama loses Wisconsin his momentum will take a hit (although it won't dampen), especially since Ohio has similar demographics.

If I was Edwards I'd wait until after March 4th. If he endorses before Wisconsin like the rumors suggest and Obama still wins, his effect will be written off by the media.
 
P

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
sangreal said:
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/08/fact_check_obamas_strong_recor.php

Just FYI

Whether you agree with it or not, thats why Obama voted for the bill

I would like Hillary to explain her attack on Obama for his nuclear radiation leak bill. She makes the false claim that he watered it down under pressure from Exelon (it was actually watered down by the anti-environment republican committee chair). More importantly, she co-sponsored the bill after it was watered-down. Also, her chief strategist Mark Penn counts Exelon as a client
Click to expand...


wow. the fact that obama needs to have a fact check on his website is disgusting.
 
S

syllogism

Member
Pelosi: Don't overrule the voters

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- who may be the most super delegate of all as chair of the Democratic national convention in Denver -- gave an interview with Bloomberg TV's Al Hunt in which she laid down the law for super delegates:

Don't veto the people's choice.

"I think there is a concern when the public speaks and there is a counter-decision made to that," she said, adding quickly, "I don't think that will happen."

She said the governors, lawmakers, DNC members and others picked as super delegates are chosen through a grassroots process and are accountable to the party's voters.

"I do think that they have a respect -- it's not just following the returns, it's also having a respect for what has been said by the people," Pelosi said. "It would be a problem for the party if the verdict would be something different than the public has decided."

That message will be music to the ears of Barack Obama, who's building a lead in pledged delegates and is urging the super delegates to follow the voters. He now leads 1,133 to 996 in pledged delegates, while Hillary Clinton has a 242-163 edge among super delegates, according to the latest tally by RealClearPolitics. Obama holds the overall edge, 1296-1238.

Pelosi had one more stunner in the interview: She said the Florida and Michigan delegates should not be seated if those delegates would decide the nomination.

"Well, I don't think that any states that operated outside the rules of the party can be dispositive of who the nominee is. That is to say they can't make the difference because then we would have no rules," she said.

Pelosi added, "But I do think that the best outcome for us is if one of the candidates pulls ahead and this issue is disposed of long before we get to the convention. We certainly don't want to ignore Florida and Michigan, but we can't ignore the rules which everyone else played by."

For a play-it-safe speaker who's pledged to stay neutral, these are sharp words. And she will be one of key referees if this fight isn't settled before Denver.
Click to expand...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=24286
 
S

sangreal

Member
Mandark said:
Hey guys? About the 2005 energy bill?

HILLARY WAS RIGHT.

It was a bad bill. Environmental activists said so at the time. Heck, print media was pretty unanimous in agreeing.

Don't spend too much energy trying to retcon that as a good vote for a liberal. When Obama's "fact check" page doesn't mention the word coal, and uses argumentum ad Dennis Hastertum, it's not looking good.
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Who argued its a good bill?


but I will dispute your notion that "HILLARY WAS RIGHT"

Her claim in the ad in question is: "Obama voted to pass billions in Bush giveaways to the oil companies."

The bill she is talking about was a net increase in tax on the oil companies. She didn't make any environmental claims, or talk about coal, etc.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATS_FACT_CHECK?SITE=CAACS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

The 2005 act that she describes as packed with billions of dollars in oil industry breaks actually raised taxes on the oil and gas industry by about $300 million over 11 years, according to the Congressional Research Service.

The nonpartisan analysis found $2.6 billion in tax cuts for the oil and gas industry and $2.9 billion in tax increases. The bulk of tax breaks went to other sources of energy, including alternative fuels favored by both Clinton and Obama.
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T

typhonsentra

Banned
And Mandark, I think both of your links are to the same story. I'd really like to know what changed in the language of the bill that lead to Hillary changing her position.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
crisdecuba said:
Just sent a message to Edwards myself as well.
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I'm sure he'll read it

On the Pelosi comment: Damn, I didn't expect her to get involved. I'm sure the higher ups in the party aren't going to let the will of the people be over ruled by SDs. Luckily for Obama he hasn't made these power people (Pelosi and Dean especially) upset like Hillary
 
V

v1cious

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Wisconsin can obviously go either way, but I'd imagine Obama has the edge. I don't think it'll be a blowout like Hawaii should be, for instance.

After that we move to Hillary's strongholds. I originally thought Obama could win Ohio, but it's looking bad right now; granted he hasn't campaigned there yet. And don't believe the hype: Texas is Hillary's
Click to expand...

depends on your definition of "Win". 5-10 points aint gonna do it, for Texas to mean anything, she's gonna have to destroy him like he did to her in the other states. so far this is not the case.
 
T

Tamanon

Banned
typhonsentra said:
What's Pelosi's beef with her?
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Pelosi's in the Dean faction. Plus I think she's annoyed at the fact that Clinton became a symbol of feminism's prominence when she really didn't have nearly as much actual influence as Pelosi has.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Charles Barkley on CNN with Blitzer NOW!

EDIT: Oh shit, he called Obama intelligent and articulate. RACIST!
 
C

CowboyAstronaut

Banned
Mandark said:
Hey guys? About the 2005 energy bill?

HILLARY WAS RIGHT.

It was a bad bill. Environmental activists said so at the time. Heck, print media was pretty unanimous in agreeing.

Don't spend too much energy trying to retcon that as a good vote for a liberal. When Obama's "fact check" page doesn't mention the word coal, and uses argumentum ad Dennis Hastertum, it's not looking good.
Click to expand...

Same Hilary that defended NAFTA, voted for the war in Iraq and voted to give Bush a blank check for War with Iran and many other things.
 
M

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
typhonsentra said:
And Mandark, I think both of your links are to the same story. I'd really like to know what changed in the language of the bill that lead to Hillary changing her position.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and fixed.

The two things that were dropped in conference were a mandate to cut domestic oil demand by a million barrels within a decade, and a hike in automobile fuel efficiency standards.


sangreal: The two taxes levied on oil refineries in that bill are for trust funds. Those funds pay for government cleanup of oil spills and underground storage tank leaks. Absent that funding, the corporations would be liable for the cleanup costs themselves, so it's really a wash.

Also, at least one of those funds caps out, so if they don't spill too much oil they'll stop paying the tax.

I think $2.6 billion in tax cuts is the more honest figure.



edit: CowboyAstronaut, what the hell does any of that have to do with the 2005 energy bill? I'm not making a case for Hillary as a candidate. I'm making a case for Obama voting the wrong way two and a half years ago on a particular piece of legislation.
 
G

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
sangreal said:
I don't really have an opinion on NAFTA but she has defended it in the past
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No she hasn't. She has always had no opinion. And the only evidence shows she was leaning against
 
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